Defining Reliable Friends, India's Strategic Defense Relations

[hello_10]

here I would like to share my ideas/previous discussions with other nationals/ key strategic issues etc. it is also intended to get any new idea, experience from others on these crucial defence strategic issues/topics i raise in this thread. I was told that experience defence professionals participate on this forum and I would welcome their contribution in this thread :thumb:

 

[hello_10]

Three Steps of Western Democracy:

we first have to address the 'bottom-line" facts behind SU-India alignment during Cold War, which was then supported by all the NAM members. that is the "Neo-Colonialism", as explained below, which formed the basis of formation of NAM......

many people here are are often confused with communism and democracy. but they are lost with the bottom-line facts behind NAM, the "Neo-Colonism". sometimes they don't understand that if there is a dispute in Vietnam's area Oil then its not because Chinese communists are not trying for their own pockets and Indian Democratic Champions are trying for Democratic people of whole world..... but, whether communists or democratic, all are trying for the good of their own civilians only ......

I try to explain it in a simple way for the young people, in few points as below:

1st, Developing countries dont want P5s as 'Police' of the world who would keep Nuclear Weapons and do whatever they want to do in World, regardless any right or wrong. as, if a country has nuclear weapons then it can't be attacked but it can do whatever it wants to do with rest of the world. and NAM countries strongly opposed this condition of 'democracy'

2nd, US/West want us to accept UN as "World Government" whose every system is a slave of US/West itself. P5s, the winners of WW2, want to keep Veto Power to block/stop any movement of UN, whenever P5s want. mean they have the Supreme Status in UN and then they want rest of the world to follow UN????? sorry, we dont want this type of "World Government"

3rd, US/West are right to interfere in the internal matters of other countries, to break it down on cultural level/financial level, under their White/Christian/Western belief, with a sense that they just dont recognize 'State' of a developing country. and with that, they want to buy all the corrupts of developing countries, as obviously poor countries would have high corruption. and then they blame the developing countries itself that they in fact deserve to be 'Ruled', as this is how they are corrupts/wrong etc?????? like how I asked one American member one day, AA on Indian Defence Forum, "do you know anything 'good' about India" and he couldn't answer . as, Western Nationals are told only wrong about a developing country like India, poor/corrupts/wrong/high crime rates etc......

and the similar other things which can be read in different articles. we may just go through the concept of Neo-Colonialism, what it means and how it became the basis of NAM...........

Neocolonialism (also Neo-colonialism) is the geopolitical practice of using capitalism, business globalization, and cultural imperialism to control a country, in lieu of either direct military control or indirect political control, i.e. imperialism and hegemony.

Neocolonialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

=> Nam's Relevance in the Emerging Multipolar World and India - Mainstream Weekly

 

[hello_10]

Common Geo-Political interests of India, Russia with China factor
(as explained in the next post as below about China's importance on defence side also)

Defining a Reliable Friend

=> few things are always very simple while discussing Indian-Russian friendship. for example of SU-India friendship which then continued till now as India-Russia friendship. India was made in the position to sign NPT while SU/Russia firmly supported Indian stand on NAM and its nuclear holding on the ground of its non-signatory of NPT. India got enough support from SU/Russia in terms of having Space Research techs while US simply doesn't want anyone else to challenge them in space technology. and similarly SU/Russia helped India in many Industrial development side. for example we talk about Chinese best J10/JF17 aircrafts whose even engine was supplied by Russia till 2010, as Russia was heavily industrialized till 1990 and again they have covered up the losses due to fall of SU. as we do talk that J10 is the best Chinese aircraft while the similar capable Mig29s were developed by SU/Russia by even 80s and India got full access of its techs. I just talked few days before that first ever Aircraft Career of China is in fact the Russian made which they gave to Ukraine in early 90s. Indian first man visited Space in 80s, Rakesh Sharma, while the first one of China did the same by last decade. Space Station MIR etc were nothing but the milestones which made US on the side of always being Jealous with SU/Russia. India enjoyed a long time of Military Superiority over China as India did have the next generation military equipments through SU/Russia while the same was not available for China, while being on opposite side of US/NATO also. for example of 5th gen PAK FA, with which India is involved from design to production with sharing all the key techs of Russia while Russia didnt do this type of favor with any other country of world. Indian first manned moon mission is also confident because of the facts of Russian assistance too.

and about the recent incidents happened on different defense deals between Russia and India, with India's willingness of buy US's arms. then still the same questions remain on the table even right now, which Mr Nehru and Ms I.Gandhi faced in 60s, 70s when they formed NAM. and I would like to ask other members here to make sure they do have answer of these few questions as below, the questions which made Indian rulers understand meaning of Russian friendship in 60s, 70s:

1st, are you getting military arms from US with full technology transfer? I mean, India got the Russian best SU30mki with 100% tech transfer from Raw to product, and full involvement in PAK FA project from design phase with sharing all the key techs of Russia. including full techs of Russian best T90 tanks, Russian best submarines are also offered in the same way for the Project 75I. is it the same while buying arms from US? even if not the same, does India get even 50% technology of the military arms they buy from US??????

2nd, we do know that few Apache, Transport aircraft etc, the US is supplying which is very superior than other customers. then also, I remember that even if China had hardly 2nd/3rd generation aircrafts by early 90s but they were capable enough to give a 'clear' warning to UK/US to hand over Hong Kong. and even right now also, China is unarguably more powerful than India, despite India get these best arms of Russia, and now from US also? then here, why we always find that Indians are so scared of military preparation while we find Gorakha Rifle/Rajputana Rifles are much more capable to win any war by just 2-3 arms of hands? why cowardness is always justified by Indian side and they always look unsecured while being threatened with China????? its in fact a shame that Russia has offered every key techs to India, which were always a dream for China and they have been trying to copy those russian tech in fact. but still India try for few arms from US as they are always threatened with China?

3rd, we do know that recent defence deals between India and Russia are troubling. but here, why would Russia lose its market of India if they themselves dont face problems and if they also face problems in supplying key defence arms to India then it has a simple meaning that we have to short out those problems. as we do have these production lines of defense arms which still need to be improved otherwise, buying arms from US simply means for a customer-supplier relation with keeping dependence on US forever, isn't it? we always need to make sure that we may build key arms, have key technologies by our own, and we must always be willing to work in this direction other than surrendering to US for military dependence/other technologies

meaning of my this long post has a simple question, "India needs to 'rely' on itself and try for those reliable friends who may help you being able to rely on yourself. you need to be capable enough to think to the level that 'reliability' is only means for being 'independent' on yourself for every technology :ranger:." and Im a strong fan of Chinese stand in this regard, that, even if they have inferior arms than US, but they are making these arms by themselves and I would like to see India also doing the same


=> Supply of few faulty Missiles to IAF and IN resulted in loss of few lives, a question raised one time....

I would like to state this side of defence also, a question raised one time: do we know, how many lives are compromised by Russian side also for making different arms, we get so easily? do you know that their own Nuclear submarine Akula-2 killed all of them during a test, while you got this same as 'secret' deal, the current Top Gun of Indian Navy. as we do know that US won't simply let get these key arms from Russia easily. do people know, how much US made noise when Russia wanted to transfer Cryogenic engines to India in 90s, which Russia finally transferred to India from back door???? while among other missiles, the Brahmos missiles are the finest and fastest missiles of world. things are always complicated while considering many issues altogether......

 

[hello_10]

Why Russian engines to China which then goes to Pakistan?

I would like to mention few of the basic concepts behind supplying russian engines for Chinese aircrafts, and also to Pakistan this way, as below. we have discussed these things a long time before but I still have to repeat the same things as we find new members aren't aware of these basic facts.............

=> Why Russia supply engines for Chinese aircrafts?:- I remember I asked this question to a senior member in a different way, "even if China has cloned one of the best russian aircraft, Su27, but still russia is supplying engines for these same cloned aircrafts like J11, J10 etc? and on the top of that China transfer JF17s to Pakistan with the same russian engines? isn't it all mean for surrendering those who only want your business and then help our enemies too?" then the answers I got as below:

not only India but Russia also had wars with China but it doesn't mean that we would surrender our sovereignty to US+EU, as after fall of SU in early 90s, Russia found itself not very capable to deal with US+EU alone. we need China to impose a credible resistance in front of Western Aggressors and the circumstances of 90s were very tough, when first russian economy was falling and also there were internal wars that time. it was the time when Russia had to ignore copying/cloning of its 4th generation aircrafts to make sure China would remain as strong so that the power balance would remain maintained in world some way. and hence Russia supply engines to China for the same aircrafts they copied/cloned from Russia, as Russia never wanted China to beg for the same in front of US+EU in 90s. as, China itself was not as capable that it could resist US+EU alone in 90s, without help of Russia. so despite history of war between Russia-China, Russia always kept China stood on its feet on the side of defense against US+EU

=> Why Russian Engines for Pakistan's aircrafts since 2008? then the answer were in few points as below?

1st, Pakistan's most of the top guns were Western till 2008, China was not the major arm supplier to them till 2008.

2nd, Pakistan had 60 JF17 block1 ($40mil) by 2011 while the same might be in same number of F16s ($70mil) from US, they could easily get F16s. F16s are more capable than any Chinese aircraft and Pakistan also has good infrastructure and training on F16s since 80s too while the price difference is hardly $30mil.

3rd, remember, if Pakistan buy military equipments from US then its mainly comes through aid, they get because of their support on WOT, in 2007 - 10. $30mil price difference means for a total extra money of $1.8bil for 60 aircrafts only, which pakistan could get by allowing more drone attacks, making less noise on WOT during 2007-10. today if Pakistan open its mouth in front of US little bit then its because they now have few arms from China too otherwise, they might have much more capable aircrafts like F16s in place of JF17s, and they might be doing exactly what they are ordered from West in return. and it could all be the worse case for India, as first Pakistan could have better aircrafts F16s, and also keeping an enemy like Pakistan which was always for the purpose to serve the interests of US+UK since 1947.

4th, Pakistani military was never as weak as compare to India as today then its because they now have more Chinese arms. otherwise Pakistan did use to say that they maintained superior Western aircrafts like F16s, Western submarines, Orion P-3 etc due to their friendship with NATO till Cold War. their purchase of JF17s helped them save few billions but they lost their fire power by a big margin. this JF17s block 1, their current inventory of JF17s, isn't capable enough to cross Indian border and can hardly be compared with LCA mach 1. while India has proposed so many upgrades for LCA mach 2 but its a question, whether Pakistan may also get the same upgrades for JF17 blk1. and if not, as likely, then even right now, only American F16s are their main top gun, and would remain in future until 5th gen aircrafts come in light.

5th, in 2008, it was discussed between Russia and India, how much does Russia really get out of selling engines for Chinese aircrafts which are then transferred to Pakistan too. but these basic facts and too many Pakistani visits to Russia in this regard made India and Russia both think that at least this way, Pakistan is getting dependence on Russian techs to an extent. leaving Pakistan doesn't mean that they can't get superior aircrafts from US+EU, they always have this opportunity, but putting an influence on Pakistan was also a concern. Russia also had bad experience from Pakistan's Taliban in Afghan in 80s but it doesn't mean that we can't think in right direction because of few wrong experiences of past. we must always be able to find the best available opportunities, regardless any wrong past.

hence in sum, Russian support for China is only to get our common geopolitical interests done through China, and russian engines for JF17s only reduced defense capabilities of Pakistan this way. and with that, Russia gave its all the best defense arms to India, with full technology transfer to India too, to make sure a power balance is always maintained in Asia also

=> I would like to share my one more discussion regarding any type of support of russia for Pakistan..... there was a time a few years before when Pakistani military was moving its nuclear weapons in unsafe vehicles as they were scared of US that time, and russia offered help in doing so, if Pakistan needed any assistance. Im not sure how much did Russia help them but providing any assistance simply means for getting idea of their own capabilities of handling nuclear weapons, and get to know their key positions, the areas they keep these key arms. its always clear for us that if Russia supply RD-93 engine and if it keep having some problems on time to time then few russian expert will have to keep visiting the defence sites to help Pakistan this way. and it all means for getting valuable information. and yes its obvious that only the key information about opponent is your best friend during any war..........

 

[hello_10]

The IAC, which is likely to be named INS Vikrant - after India's first and now decommissioned aircraft carrier - is delayed by at least five years and is expected to be with the Indian Navy only after 2018 as against the scheduled date of delivery of 2014, Defence Minister AK Antony had earlier told Parliament. For the Indian Navy the delay and the cost overrun of the indigenously made aircraft carrier is almost a double whammy as the Russian built Aircraft Carrier Admiral Gorshkov, renamed as INS Vikramaditya, is also delayed.

The total cost of the aircraft carrier alone - without its aircraft component - is likely to be between Rs. 14000-to Rs. 18000 crore.

Indian aircraft carrier: More costly, already delayed | NDTV.com

here, I responded to the news of Post #977 & #979 as above that IAC-1 may cost upto $3.0bil with delivery now extended to 2018, while we had too much discussions about cost escalation and delays of INS Vikramaditya for last 4-5 years. Indian members have been making heavy noise on the delivery and cost of INS Vikramaditya, which was initially signed for around $800mil and was to be delivered by 2008, as per the contract signed, if i remember. and now it has final cost at $2.3billion and would come in operation by 2013, has already completed its flight tests of Mig29s....... but it will now be interesting to see how India itself ends up with their home made IAC-1 and 2. IAC-1 was itself to be made for $1.0billion and was to be delivered by 2012, but now I find its cost to be at least $2.5bil, if not more, and to be delivered by 2018, as above, if not more......

=> in fact the big defence projects have history of high cost escalation and delays. for example of HMS Queen Elizabeth, which was also offered to India at one time. it was also proposed for hardly £950million for each in beginning and was to be delivered by 2012 in beginning, but it would now cost at least £3.5 billion (around $6.0 billion) each, and would now be delivered by 2020, as estimated right now. but with our experience, I may say that its cost would escalate to at least $10billions and would be delivered by at least 2020+, if not more. and with my knowledge in economics also, I would say that chances are hardly 50% that Britain would remain financially capable enough by 2020 to complete this project also

While debate has focused on rising costs (up to £7 billion for two carriers (around $6.0bil each) and what aircraft should fly from the ships, construction work has been quietly continuing at six shipyards around the country

The plan remains, for now at least, for HMS Queen Elizabeth to be handed over to the Royal Navy in early 2017 and be fully operational by 2020, with sister ship HMS Prince Of Wales two years behind.

HMS Queen Elizabeth: It's taller than Nelson's Column and generates enough energy to power 5,500 homes - but does Britain really need a super-sized £3.5bn aircraft carrier? | Mail Online

and its aircraft to be delivered by 2023, if not more? better Britain is handling this shiit for its own Navy

Mr Hammond said delays to the F-35C Joint Strike Fighter programme, a multinational venture led by American company Lockheed Martin, meant they would have not been operational until 2023 - three years later than planned.

BBC News - Government in £100m U-turn over F35-B fighter planes

 

[hello_10]

india is not in a position to wait as our strength is decreasing every day
besides from rising costs the delay is irking indian defense ministry

and here we have topic of discussion, why can't any part of the world complete big defense projects within time line, with proposed cost? and also, how this so much discussed INS Vikramaditya offered higher cost escalation and time delay, as compare to Indian own IAC project, and also while comparing it to British's HMS which was also offered to India one time???? and here, you at least getting this Vikramaditya by 2013, for $2.3billion, while your own IAC would now come in operation by 2018, for at least $3.0billion, if not more, and IAC and that British HMS both would now come in operation by 2020+, as per the recent news on this page???? so how opting INS Vikramaditya reduced Indian strength this way, considering cost escalation and delays as per your question. and hence, how Indian own IAC project or British HMS could enhance Indian strength this way, for so high cost and proposed induction by 2020+???????

lets find out, how exactly Indian Air Force and IN suffered reduction in their strength due to delays and cost escalation of key defence deals......

=> Navy: many people here might be hardly in 20s and I remember Vajpayee government signed Project 75I for 6 Scorpion Submarines deals for $1.9billions with France in 2004, which was to be supplied from 2008, as per the deal signed in 2004. and today its Cost has gone well above $5.0billions, and many doubt that you would get them for even $8.0bil also..... France has shown its unwillingness of transferring key technologies of these Submarines in late 2000s, and you would now get these Submarines from 2015 onwards, if not more, and full tech transfer would never be possible. and the result is, India is now on the stage of having the lesser submarines than Pakistan by 2015, after retirement of few old submarines, this biggest arm of Navy, the submarines. and even right now, your Top Gun submarine is Akula-2 which was signed with Russia as secret deal, with hopefully 3 more of this type, with russian upgrades of Indian old submarines to keep them working till end of this decade to keep IN maintain superiority over Pakistan till 2020 ......

=> Air Force: similarly, about aircrafts, then check how things worked for this M-MRCA deal? it was proposed for $10bil for 126 aircrafts as per its tender in 2010 itself, but now this whole project will cost has been escalated to over $20bil for Rafale within 2 years, if not more, the lowest bidder itself. while SU30mki for hardly $100mil each is fit in comparison to Rafale, with full tech transfer from raw to product, and it works for IAF as mainly Air Dominance while Rafale will do its work as Multi Role, but both are fit in comparison, both 4++ front line aircrafts of world. while Mig29Ks for hardly $40mil each is possible only from Russia. and about delays? this M-MRCA deal is open from 2008 and even if you get Rafale by even 2015 onward, you will be lucky. ....... also I remember, this M-MRCA deal was opened since 2008, when only Mig29VOT and Mirage 2000-5 mk2 were under consideration, while this deal would now be signed by 2013, and these aircrafts would be delivered from 2016 onwards, if not more, as IAF is more willing to negotiate for a Rafale F4 or at least Rafale F3+ type upgraded model, more stealthy than the current Rafale F3 proposed for the Brazilian tender....... IAF wants it at least as much stealthy as Super Sukhoi Su30mki...... :ranger:

=> Army: if we discuss Tanks, the main arm of army, then have a look on the capabilities of Indian front line tanks as compare to T90??????? T-90s are the best Russian tanks, and India did get enough tech transfer of it, and hopefully 100% tech transfer by end of this decade. otherwise see how even 70% tech transfer of Rafale is appreciated by India. while from US, there is just 'no' technology transfer

(and yes military strength is more than tanks, aircrafts, submarines, ACs etc. like missiles like Brahmos and proposed S-400 for India, which we heard that India has already got it in over 6 regiments, as confidential deal, same as S-300. bla bla.....)

then how Russia, as an arm supplier, was behind any reduction of Indian Military Strength and cost escalation, and how the same could be improved/enhanced by having more reliance on other defence suppliers including on France, this way???????

 

[hello_10]

also im in the position to discuss delays and cost escalation issues with other side but we first need to find out how exactly this happens and why Russia would lose its biggest defence market for no reason? and these points are always raised, while giving example of Scorpions of Project 75, M-MRCA, IAC including the western own projects like US's F35/JSF, Rafale, EFT Typhoon, British HMS etc, to state how they have been delayed for over 10 years, with 3-4 times cost escalation than previously estimated. we do need to find out, why exactly cost and time of big russian defense rise and why the same is not seen in case of other suppliers, to sort out those issues. But if something happens every where then there is no God in world, to use any miracle in case of russian projects only )

and in fact there is just one country of world which may supply 'in-use' defense arms on time, the USA, as they have 50+ customers world wide and running production lines. but there are four main points, why I dont find it a wise step to have closer defence deals with US, as below:

1st, US use defence contracts to bargain on the foreign policy side. here we have example of Pakistan and other US's customers, like how US delayed supply of F16s in 90s, and during last decade to bargain with Pakistan's foreign policy side. and the same we saw in case of other US's non-Western customers for different US's defense deals..........

2nd:, US has nothing to offer other than Transport Aircrafts, P8I, GE F414 or hardly Apache also. even during the trials of M-MRCA deal, Super Hornet and F16s were rejected during performance tests and it was found that its better IAF would buy more Mig29s which may also deliver the similar works, more or less, and no extra infrastructure or training will be required in case of Mig29s also, like how IN is buying Mig29Ks for its ACs. and US's Top Gun, F15SE is fit in comparison with Super Sukhoi Su30mki. while we find F22 for hardly 'strategic' purpose during 90s and last decade, better the prototypes of PAK FA we have got till now........

even in case of F35, the new Top Gun of US, this project is well delayed till 2020, if not more, single engine and now less likely to be as effective as PAK FA, as below. while we do know that there will be hardly 0% to 5% tech transfer for F35, if India ever think for it, while India is involved from design to production phase of PAK FA, which will help their home projects, mainly AMCA :thumb:

September 7, 2011

Part of the presentation showed a computer simulation which calculated that the F-35 would be consistently defeated by the Russian-made SU-35 fighter aircraft. The defeat calculated by the scenario also showed the loss of the F-35's supporting airborne-early warning and air-to-air refueling aircraft.

Independent air combat analysts from Air Power Australia have also stated that the F-35 is not capable of facing high end threats; that what will be delivered (if it ever arrives) will be obsolete; and that the F-35 is not affordable or sustainable.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4416.html

November 14, 2011

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program has some negative issues that must be watched in the coming years.

Other signs of ill-health with the F-35 program are that the U.S. Navy is buying more Super Hornets to fill gaps in their carrier air wings. The United States Air Force (USAF) is in a similar state of affairs. For them the F-35 program is 7 years late compared to the 2001 plan. Initial Operating Capability (IOC) for USAF IOC's has been pushed to 2018. USAF now plans to refurbish 350 F-16s to deal with broken promises by the F-35 program.

http://www.f-16.net/news_article4462.html

3rd: there is just 'no' technology transfer from US's side on any defence contract. you would understand that its only a supplier-customer relation while India needs its own defence infrastructure. and more India have deals with Russia like PAK FA, its more likely that India will then have got all the key expertise of Russia this way at the end, by involvements from design to production phase like in case of PAK FA, making India's own credible defense infrastructure, including of all missile, missile defence, T90 tanks, aircrafts, stealth submarines etc and thats what we would like to see :thumb:

India is developing its own fifth generation combat jet in the form of the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) that was formerly conceived as the Medium Combat Aircraft (MCA). The AMCA will be a single-seater, twin-engine stealth multirole fighter.

The AMCA is likely to complement the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and the Indo-Russian joint venture fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), also known as the PAK FA, the Sukhoi Su-30MKI and the Dassault Rafale :thumb:, which will be the chosen plane under the MMRCA or the medium multi-role combat aircraft tender for 126 planes for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

India's Indigenous 5th-Gen Combat Plane to Boast Of Condition Monitoring Systems

like how we do know that russian Stealth Submarines, which are offered for Project 75I, would bring all the key russian techs which we won't get from either German or Spanish one.....:ranger:

4th, right now US has only transport aircrafts, P8I, GE engine and hardly Apache also to offer but they charge India very high price than what they ask from Australia, Canada and its other customers like Pakistan, and in fact very less of its price it required for making these arms in US. I think, India would keep kicking US for the defence arms India buy from US, to always make US understand that its India who feeds them......

like, India is paying $410mil each for C-17, while Australia is paying around $350mil each for C-17. while for US, its just around $250mil each for C-17 to make it in US for themselves.
(prices of Australian, Canadian and US's is mentioned in the last paragraph of this news as below.

June 7/11: India's Cabinet Committee on Security has reportedly approved a $4.1 billion buy of 10 C-17As.

Australia spent about $1.4 billion, and Canada about $1.6 billion, to buy and induct 4 C-17As into their respective air forces; the USA, who does not have the extra expenses that accompany any new fleet aircraft type, is set to spend $2.5 billion for 10 C-17s in the Senate's FY 2010 defense budget.

C-17s for India

similarly I have read on many places that US charge India with much higher prices for the same aircrafts/ missiles etc than what they got from their other customers. for example of Harpoon missile price for India and much less was charged from pakistan

Harpoons: India to pay US almost three times more than Pak

Harpoons: India to pay US almost three times more than Pak : India, News - India Today

 

[hello_10]

here, the Natural Economic Order of World is as below, and it can be changed only when different wars are orgaized, like how Western Nations organized different wars in 19th century and changed this economic ranking. and for Indians, I said many times, "China will always share the top two economic spot with India like till 18th century, or, both will come down together like since 19th century after different Western organized wars." like how since 1820 when British Defeated Marathas and got control over whole India since then. and if CHina may achieve high economic size like in 17th and 19th centuries, then India will simply replace China to second spot like how Indian economy was on the top till 18th century, excluding the 17th century, as below: (now, think, Indians here want China to go up or go down?????????)

Indians here would only expect the China to clear the 'Western Hurdles' and rest, all is alright for India as China does do the work

=> List of regions by past GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[hello_10]

Can Emerging and Developed Economies be Friends?

China and US can never be friends, only enemies they can be of each others, why, I explained many times as below. here I would like to ask other strategic think tank of this forum, how the same isn't true in case of India??????

1st, China wants to have every technology which US has, and superior to US also, which will bring US to the level of Africa , if it will get happen, which looks like going to happen within 5 to 10 years from now. as, if US will have lost production lines of High Tech Products to China and if China will then introduce these products in world at much cheaper prices, then how US/EU will maintain earning? it will bring US to stone age, if it will ever happen, and China is determined to have all the techs of US, with higher than US also, and US wants to resist these efforts. only Indian High Qualified professionals US have, which may help US have high techs in future, in competition with China.... :ranger:

2nd, China wants to have higher techs in defense arms which may help them win over any enemy including US/West, and Western nations definitely dont want this, including EU. US wants to put missiles in space and when China also wants to do the same, West has a problem. US want to form a 'World Government', which would govern the whole world including China, and China doesn't want this to happen when a White/Christian/Western government start governing China and other developing nations.

3rd, in western view, CHinese has been an inferior race for a long period of time while Chinese wants to prove it a superior race, the superior Chinese culture than the Western ones. hence, there is a clear cultural clash between West and CHina

4th, US/West believe in 'grading' of nationality, with putting Western on higher place and Asians on lower national identity/grade, which is a clear clash between 'Chinese Proud' for being a Chinese and American proud to be an American.........

India also has the same clashes with US/West but India is blessed with CHina who first take an attempt on these above '4' Western aggressions...

 

[hello_10]

Western nations use Pakistan as an arm against India, like how pakistan served its purpose since 1947, as guided by the Britain/US/West, including during Cold War by full support of Western arms for Pakistan. when we talk to a pakistani nationalist, he/she would only be concered with good of pakistan while the people like Mr Musharraf are of the purpose to help the Western nations first, and then try for the Good of Pakistan along with it, if possible.......

=> Three Sides of World Politics: there are three type of people/sides in world in 'Power Game', the 1st one who is defending itself and the 2nd one the aggressor and then we find a third side, the 'Beneficiary' of any type of war/conflicts etc. and I would say that Pakistan has been aggressor with India since they lost East Pakistan in 1971, by terrorism in Punjab in early 80s, then it switched to Pakistan's support to militancy in Kashmir in between 1989 to 2007, and India only defended itself since 1972. while the 3rd side, British/US always try to get benefit out of any type of conflict between India and Pakistan by keeping Pakistan's rulers in their pocket. and since India qualified with China among the BRIC, the new big powers of world, India is now on the target of Western War Champions, similar to China and Russia. and here, you can't ignore 'Role' of US/UK in any type of conflict India may face, either from Pakistan or China . you always need to understand that if US can't control India then you are on their target, same as China and Russia op:

 

[hello_10]

,
India would only stick to the norms of WTO and keep kicking those Western bastards who only want to harm India"

India and Russia:- you would consider India, China, Russia/Eurasia the 3 different poles in Asia. rest, neither ASEAN is united, nor there is any unity in East Asia and neither Gulf region looks like going to have any type of Union in coming time. and in the Eurasia block, Russia+Kazakhstan+Belarus share very similar views, very close terms and hence these 3 would probably have a Eurasian currency or Ruble as whole also by 2015. and we want Yuan as a World currency as China has enough foreign reserve to stabilize it and also it will help US/West to understand the changing world.......

rest, India has a very close term with Russia who may well supply even energy/metals/minerals etc also in tough circumstances in future, in return of the products they may purchase from India itself, like how SU was the second largest trading partner of India till 1990. Russia/Eurasia also understands that India can't become a bigger military power than China by next 20-30 years but a powerful India will certainly help them have a power balance in Asia itself. like how we have disputes in Vietnam's region oil explorations etc. Russia finds its win-win situation in rise of India. they understand very liberal society of India, almost non-aggressive who strongly believe in Gandhi's non-violence philosophy. but they also find it a weakness of India who always struggle to fix its even internal disputes also this way. but rise of India, a successful and powerful country, is only a benefit for them, its always clear. I remember, during the visit of Mr Medvedev in 2010, it was a question before signing the deal for 5th gen aircraft with India which involved sharing all the key techs/codes with India, for what the country like China die to get. but Russia was agreed with sharing all the key codes with India at the time of 5th gen aircraft deal in 2010.....

India and US:- on the other hand, US believes in a world which would work under it. US simply doesn't recognize territory of those countries who dont work under their White/Christian/Western belief, which is mainly intended to colonize rest of the world to ensure luxury life of Western people in either way, and here the problem exists......... US doesn't sell any arm with full tech transfer, otherwise India might have considered F35/JSF also for M-MRCA but US was never agreed to transfer its key techs, like how Rafale or EFT Typhoon or Mig35 was on offer. same you find in case of transport aircrafts, P8I, GE engine, Apache while India even pay much higher price for these defence arms than what its other customers pay, and around twice than its making cost in US also. in short, Russia helps India to have production lines of arms/products in India itself while US always wants to be in the position to sell its products/defence arms to India to feed its workers...........

also, US always tried to force India to sign NPT to accept 5 countries as police of the world under their White/Christian/Western belief, while russia always had support for a nuclear power India on the ground of its non-NPT signatory stand. we got a news recently that Sunita Williams did put Indian Flag in space while Indians want an Indian citizen from ISRO would put Indian flag in space, like how Chandrayan of ISRO did put Indian flag on moon in 2008....

in short, Indians dont want to become a 'liberal-colonized' country of US whose best Indian talent would work for US to help its citizen have luxury life, leaving rest of people based in India dreaming to go to Western nations only. Indians want to make India a place for whom rest of the world dream for. India wants to become a country who would sell the high techs to Western nations in future, like how China is doing pretty good in this regard. Indians dream for a day when high energy consuming jobs will finally be transferred to US/West, making India a country which would sell high tech products in future and yes India is doing pretty good in achieving its dream of having higher success in future. :thumb: while we find US always willing to resist intentions of India to make India a very successful country in future, due to their White/Christian/Western belief, to fulfill its intentions to 'neo-colonized' rest of the world including India to maintain flow of money to US/West in either way to maintain luxury life of those people who are certainly not deserving the status they have. Indians dont want those under high school passed western nationals to Rule the world who have only one way to maintain luxury life, that is to organize different wars, full armed/political wars/economical wars etc.

Indians find 'Natural Economic Order' of the World as above, and they just have to resist US/West to get their economic status they had for centuries.........

like how these western people are mainly worried to beg for jobs in india and having higher trade deficit only

David Cameron delivers address at Infosys Bangalore: Full Text
July 28, 2010

The Tata Group is now the largest manufacturing employer in Britain. And more than 180 Indian companies have invested in our IT sector.

Indian companies employ 90,000 people in the UK. Many more jobs in Britain exist thanks to the activities of British companies in India. Now I want to see thousands more jobs created in Britain , and of course in India through trade in the months and years ahead. That is the core purpose of my visit.

David Cameron delivers address at Infosys Bangalore: Full Text | NDTV.com

India's exports to European countries increased by about 16 per cent to USD 57.7 billion in 2011-12, while imports rose by about 29 per cent year-on-year to USD 91.5 billion.

Exports to Europe up 16%; imports 29%

 

[Armand2REP]

Who is going to stick by you when things get tough and go against popular opinion? That is France. No sanctions, steady weapon supplies during war, tells Pakistan to go to hell when they whine for avionics to make a junk fighter half way decent, wants you to replace UK on the P5, and keeps an arms embargo on your greatest threat. India has no better friend.

 

[hello_10]

Who is going to stick by you when things get tough and go against popular opinion? That is France. No sanctions, steady weapon supplies during war, tells Pakistan to go to hell when they whine for avionics to make a junk fighter half way decent, wants you to replace UK on the P5, and keeps an arms embargo on your greatest threat. India has no better friend.

thanks :thumb:

and just go though the thread as below and tell us few good reasons, why would we allow these people to help them more in this world? they have a war every year, 20,000+ scores of civilians they are making every year, by targetting different countries one by one, like Lybia in 2010-11, Syria in 2011-12 including ongoing bombing on the civilians of Afghan by drones, like a mad. with different criminal activites in developing countries, including buying our corrupts/criminals, to give them protection in UK, US????

we must have few real good reasons, why won't we resist these efforts by UK+US??????

just go though this thread one time, as below:

=> http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-qaeda-has-backfired-united-states-putin.html

 

[hello_10]

War Politics, NPT and China Factor:

My Today's post is for the Canadian politicians, who recently turned the pages of history on nuclear issue/NPT.........

Canada turns page, wants to sell nuclear reactors to India

Canada turns page, wants to sell nuclear reactors to India - The Times of India

Only those get help who may help themselves

Talking "War Politics" to young people is always tough but, listen carefully, "when a strong man beat a weak person, people generally support the strong man, not the weaker one." I mean, if you can demonstrate your strengths then world will listen what you say otherwise you gotto do what you are told to do. But if you win, you will talk to others on your terms and conditions and then you will find many other countries in your support also, this is how the world is. Cowardness in 'War Politics' only brings heavy price in future.

I find most of the Indian, Pakistani and Chinese members here are mainly based in Western countries so they are not really attached with the main mindset of the people of their home countries. Long time before, a senior told me that nuclear power China was in the interest of US which could keep Japan, India, Taiwan, South Korea and other regional countries threatened from China and this way great neighbors of China like Japan, South Korea had to remain like a slave of West for help against China. and until China is a threat to its neighbors, they will always need help from West. And if West might not have introduced NPT, but might have adopted a nuclear free world (without Veto power in UN also), then every country might be having "equal opportunity to rise" and then no one would need a 'police' in this world for help. West always advocated a world which needs help from US/West, and in return, whole world would follow West. NPT and Veto powers in UN are nothing but Bluff of Western democracy, which are intended to capture different weak countries. India could maintain its sovereignty because of Soviet Union only otherwise India might have signed NPT till now and then they might have become a slave of West like Japan/ South Korea who always need help of West for Nuclear and Veto powers against China. and hence, this way US/West easily enjoyed technologies developed by Japan during 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s .......

Western nations follow a one line concept, that is, you are either with them or against them. It used to be said in the Indian newspapers that there couldn't be any nuclear war between US and Soviet Union because US knew that even if Soviet Union had NFU policy, Soviet was going to use nuke at least in response if US might have done so with SU, the main reason why there wasn't any nuclear war between US and SU :meeting:

As of October 2008, China,[1] India[2] and North Korea[3] have publicly declared their commitment to no first use of nuclear weapons.

NATO has repeatedly rejected calls for adopting NFU policy,[4] arguing that preemptive nuclear strike is a key option. In 1993, Russia dropped a pledge given by the former Soviet Union not to use nuclear weapons first. In 2000, a Russian military doctrine stated that Russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons "in response to a large-scale conventional aggression".

No first use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

for example about Terrorism also, it is widely said in India that it was only OBL's 9/11 why US accepted terrorism is terrorism, good or bad. (Like how Ms H Clinton recently said that US has supported 'good' terrorism against its foe.) and since 9/11, US could understand terrorism problem of rest of the world otherwise all these Al Qaeda/ Taliban are nothing but made by US itself against SU and its allies.......

I became Secretary of State, they were trying to basically appease the Pakistani Taliban who were attacking them. So they were trying to draw a distinction between the good terrorists and the bad terrorists, because we had funded the "good terrorists" together.

Referring to the support US provided to these insurgent groups during the fight against the Russians in Afghanistan, Clinton said when she meets Pakistani officials, they rightly say, "You're the ones who told us to cooperate with these people. You're the ones who funded them.

Pak making error by supporting terror groups against India: US : Americas, News - India Today

Western nations are seriously confused with the concept of right and wrong/ good and bad. They always want to do a wrong with keeping many good reasons to do so. and if they keep 10 good reason to do one wrong then there are always 11 good reasons to resist those efforts. US's foreign policies were based on 3 simple steps, first try to buy a country and if not, then make them corrupt and if it also doesn't work with any country then attack on that certain country for different good reasons, by political/financial means or finally by militarily.......


(also its the US who has experience of using nuclear weapons against Japan, no one else did the same, and it is believed that it will be only US who will use nuke against others and others would at least be capable enough to respond US. for example of Iran, an Indian mindset may ask US/West, "why West is threatened with nuclear power Iran if they also have nuclear weapons???????? US/West, who themselves are heavily equipped with nuclear weapons, are threatened that others may also get nukes??" :ranger: Just have a look on Gulf countries and its neighbors, from Saudi to Turkey and from Egypt to Pakistan, we find the only Iran is the country which isn't slave of West otherwise rest have to do what US tells them.

I remember my one conversation with an old man. in 1998, (during nuclear test by India which was much criticized by West as they want whole world to follow P5s. US/West imposed many sanctions on India after that nuclear test also), a 80+ old man told me on a small tea shop that this is the same US which first dropped a nuclear bomb on Hiroshima but Japan didn't surrender. but when US again dropped nuclear bomb on Nagasaki after just 3 days, Japanese troops surrendered as they knew that 'mad US' will kill all the Japanese women and kids walking on the streets by more nuclear bombs if they don't surrender. (Indian first nuclear test was conducted in 1974, 'Smiling Buddha'.) I don't say Japan was always right, they also did few wrong, but they surrendered to US/ West just for the sake of their women and kids walking on the streets. As troops are put on the border, not on the streets where the nuclear bombs were dropped by US. and Japanese troops didnt surrender by first nuclear attack, but by second nuclear attack, when it got confirmed that none will be left alive in Japan if they dont surrender.

otherwise see what the president of Iran says:

The President of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Dr. Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad, declared on Sunday in a meeting with the Indonesian Foreign Minister in Teheran that nuclear weapons pose a threat to the security of the international community. Rather than trying to develop nuclear weapons, The Islamic Republic of Iran stands against them and in favour of a nuclear free world. :ranger:

Ahmadi-Nejad: Nuclear Weapons Threaten the World - English pravda.ru

 

[hello_10]

double post

 

[Ray]

There is nothing called 'reliable friends'.

The foreign policy has to encourage countries to be 'reliable'.

Is our foreign policy up to it?

That is the issue!

 

[Neil]

Who is going to stick by you when things get tough and go against popular opinion? That is France. No sanctions, steady weapon supplies during war, tells Pakistan to go to hell when they whine for avionics to make a junk fighter half way decent, wants you to replace UK on the P5, and keeps an arms embargo on your greatest threat. India has no better friend.

u must be joking...??

never seen any statement which claims that franch wants India to replace UK.... only that it supports India in UNSC....

 

[roma]

even within nato the weight of contribution is sometimes questioned and nato is probably the only surviving military FRIENDSHIP coalition ---

in this day and age of uncertainty, reliable friends are being replaced by reliable opportunities

its an MBA world -- where you create your own future

after all lthat talk about self-reliance by MKG, - many indian including on this forum are more interested in leaning on someone else other than themselves

either you create your opportunities , like china does putting modules together and creating J15, J20 , J21 etc

or like india youre looking to lean on a friend and so "Jointly" develop PAKFA - which now it seems is asking for china funds - and where your level of participation is dictated to you by the major partner ( not yourself )

we need to learn to go it alone - we already have the management expertise

it's time to be man -enough to tryout our system in many areas - trust our people - make changes and corrections run out corruption - as we seem to be doing successfully in ISRO !

 

[hello_10]

even within nato the weight of contribution is sometimes questioned and nato is probably the only surviving military FRIENDSHIP coalition ---

in this day and age of uncertainty, reliable friends are being replaced by reliable opportunities :thumb:

its an MBA world -- where you create your own future :thumb:

either you create your opportunities , like china does putting modules together and creating J15, J20 , J21 etc :ranger: !

Western Pig Class, a 'Characteristic' Hand to Mouth Generation

sir I would tell you a basic thing in this regard, when a kid of an Australian goes for date with his/her partner even since schooling, they proud to say that now their kids are also dating, like how they have changed with 20+ in their own life. and this way, the time Indian youth spent for very hard work to get something done in life/career, that certain time is spent by the Western kids in enjoying life with fullest..........

when I was doing my part time MBA in Sydney, we used to have discussions about the 'competent' products, to have 'competitive advantage', while we find only one competition in the Australian schools, that is, who can have how good bodies to impress girls and have sex with more and more girls. this does help them performing good on the side of sports, but a labor is only a labor, a certain 'Hand to Mouth' Category person, and this is what the Western Rulers have done with their society...............

but I saw a very special 'Character' in this Hand to Mouth Class of West, the Western Pig Class I have defined, which I estimated around 70% of total population of Australia, 80% of UK and around 80% of US too, i guessed..... when too many attacks were going on with the International students in Australia in 2009/10, few were sent to me to discuss, how those under class 6th/7th passed local Australians then became superior to the International students doing Master level engineering/medicines/management this way? and I passed my message to Australian politicians that time, that, "Bluff of Superiority, based of publicity of greatness, without any credibility or proper educational background....."

and the same I saw in the Work Shop of the companies I worked, that local whites were intended to prove that there is one way, why they are superior to the person sitting on the top floor in my cabin, that is because of their racial/western feeling with religious touch, while working in behalf of their rulers

and this is the certain "Western Pig Class" I have discussed before, who usually work for 3-4 days for hardly $16 to $20/hour casual jobs and spend all on weekends, and involved in discussing different War Politics, in terms of racial war/political war/ culture war/ religious war/ economical war/trade war etc. and I did notice a 'right' reason for that, that is, people like Tony Blair, John Howard, Tony Blair, G.W.Bush and other retired president and PMs of Western Nations have clearly understood that their new generation may only be used for different types of Wars, based on "Hate Crimes", only........

I used to get a clear information in Australia, while sitting in my cabin on top floor and keep watching people making horns on the streets from my window, that, Mr Rudd, Ms Gillard, Mr Howard type people do know that if their coming generation want to work to feed themselves only and spend all on weekends, without any career or direction in life, then their free time can only be utilized for organizing 'Hates' for high qualified migrants....


=> after doing my BE in Mechanical Engineering from a government college in India, I did my Master of Engineering and Master of Engineering Management from University of Technology Sydney, which is ranked around 25th/26th in among the Technical Institutes of world by QS Global, when we shortlist only their 5 Star Rating technical institutes. then it was more intended to do higher studies from a college whose degrees is more recognized than any of the Indian technical institute, as in 2002, when I visited there. UTS is located in the heart of Sydney City, the only city university, the 3rd ranked financial center of Asia Pacific in 2002, after Tokyo and Singapore, then it was more intended to have the best recruitment after completion of my Masters. and with my Master of Engineering, I first did my Master of Engineering Management as I was first willing to have engineering experience and then move to Management positions in an engineering firms, the 'plan' I had in 2002 before moving to Sydney. and when I joined Sydney University again in 2009 for part time MBA in Project Management then it was mainly to have one more degree in projects management areas as I had gained around 4 years of Projects Engineering experience till 2009 in Australia itself.......... and from here, now compare my professional life with a common Western civilian, how much they plan for their career??????

I do remember that Western Media had finally defined it as "Hate Crimes" in 2009/10

 

[hello_10]

Bluffs of Oscars, Nobel prices:

Can India have friendship with these 'Born B@stards'???

we always find Nobel, Oscar type awards just 'fakes'. Nobel is about, someone from a developing country does the work and a western national is awarded. or in few cases like Oscars, these awards are just do publicity of greatness of Western nations, by doing publicity of wrong about developing nations, based on lies, to fulfill different geo-political goals........ for example I give of 'SlumDog millionaire' movie, which got 5-6 Oscars but no credibility in that movie which was based on lies about India..... at the same time many told us that these Nobel awards are given to the 'bosses', for the works of those migrant engineers/scientists who work under them.

because of successfully winning over India in 1818, WW1 and WW2, UK/US/West then came in a better position to bring talent of other countries, mainly Indians who worked for British and hence those techs then transferred to US also this way during 19th and 20th centuries. and the way Asia is again in the position to recover its economic ranking it had till 19th century, we again find different environment of wars....... even during WW2, it were mainly the Indian Military which became the Back Boon of Britain to help them win WW2..... and again we find a new war organized every year, in terms of 'Sectarian Wars'. it was Libya in 2010, then it switched to Syria since 2011, ongoing war in Afghanistan with including different growing Secterian Wars in developing countries like Shia-Sunni etc. and with that the continuous efforts to convert Afghans into Christianity, along with different political wars organised on the international platform............

=> Slum Dog Millionaire: in my most of the posts, i first fcuk the Western Politicians and then talk as they generally organize different talks based on lies 'only'. only 'publicity' of lies is their main arm, and then they try to find out 'truths' this way

when I saw Slum Dog Millionaire in 2008, I had said just after the movie that its not an Indian movie, but very likely a British movie. as British government is involved in manipulating India's data for a very long, mainly since 2006. and this type of wrong publicity must have a British mind, backed by British Royal Family including British government, along with their followers based in US/Australia/Canad. why? I said few points as below:

1st, English of Indians is good but its of Middle Class only, not of the poor who live in slums, they are mostly uneducated and speak their native languages, like hindi/tamil/bengali etc. ask Prince Charles, do Bihari labor pass IELTS/TOFEL test before going to Delhi/Mumbai, similar to other poor of India who go to Mumbai for a better income amd live in Slum????? even literacy rate of India is hardly 70%, leaving 90% of 350mil poor uneducated, without primary education also?????

2nd, Hence, first this 30% poor/lower class of India, living in Slum, aren't educated enough to work in a Call Centre like the Hero of this movie. and second, I knew that till 2003, people of early 20s used to work in Call Centers while doing studies in Delhi, most of them were belonging to Upper Middle Class families and to earn pocket money and improve English also at the same time in Delhi...... this movie was made by someone who thinks, "people in India live in Slum, speak 'good' english and work in Call Centre.", and this is the 'only' "General Knowledge", the British government provided to its people, till mid last decade.

3rd, this movie had a certain type of 'Mentality' which confirm that British Royal Family/British Government and their followers based in US/Australia/Canada were behind making of that movie. the mentality was, "in this movie, a man said over 10 very bad things about India, which might be rarely happening now days, like taking out eyes and put the person for begging........ and after making the whole India, a Slum Dog, this man had been made a Millionaire, as a 'Reward' ."

and the way British Shiiits were behind manipulating India's datas for so long, mainly since 2006, it was then just a "Common Sense" for me that British Government/British Origins funded and gave enough publicity to that movie, like so many Oscar's for this movie also, just to do wrong publicity of India....

there can't be a better example to prove that all these Nobel, Oscar awards are just fakes, to feed mentality of Western War Champions ...