Decision on $10 billion MMRCA deal soon

[arya]

when will be first pakfa will induct in IAF , and how much will be number

can any one has any idea or it will be same as like AC deal

 

[ace009]

Hmmm - let's see. The Gorshkov was supposed to be inducted by 2009 - will be ready by 2012 (?). The Mig-29Ks were supposed to be delivered by 2009, were delivered in 2010/2011. The Akula sub was supposed to be ready by 2010-2011, will be ready by 2012-2013.

So by current standards, PAK-FA is supposed to be ready by 2020 - so, say 2022?

 

[p2prada]

then why are we investing hell lot of money in PAKFA project ? just to get half the crafts as then expected ? or is it a compromise stratergy for other deals with russia ?

Our investment in the PAKFA program is for the entire kit, both PAKFA and FGFA. It is not like we are only funding FGFA program.

This money will not be used for other deals because it may not be enough for PAKFA alone in the long run.

 

[SpArK]

Tough bargaining ahead for India's MMRCA winner

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Sat, Oct 22, 2011 15:35 CET




The two finalists in India's Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) aircraft deal, Eurofighter and Dassault, will have to be prepared for tough bargaining at the price negotiation stage as a rise in the value of the Euro Vs the Indian currency has pushed up the Rupee value of their bid by an estimated 15% in the last one year.


Following the acceptance of the offsets proposals of the two bidders a fortnight ago, the only remaining formality is the opening of the envelopes containing the commercial bids and announcing the lowest bidder which will walk away with the estimated $1.2 billion prize.


The lowest bidder will then be called for further talks called price negotiations to be held by the price negotiations committee.


It is at this stage that the final price will be decided and tough bargaining will ensue. India has in the past let go of defence contracts as talks have broken down at the final price negotiation stage with the winning bidder. Cases to point are Airbus Industrie and Eurocopter both of which had to back off after being selected as winners, as the Indian Finance Ministry found their final price too expensive.


"Even after the final winner is announced, it is still touch and go", said an industry source to Defenseworld.net. "There is no finality that the lowest bidder will get the deal if India's Finance Ministry which holds the purse strings objects to any part of the financial commitment. The Euro value rise will be an important element to discuss as a 15%-18% rise in the last 18 months means that order price has increased by over a billion Euros".


It may be recalled that in mid-2009, the MMRCA bidders have had to submit fresh bids as the two year validity of their commercial bids had expired then and a couple of the bidders had told defenseworld.net then " the purpose of submitting fresh commercial bids is to take into account price escalation" adding that "the best value at current prices has been offered to India", which means that a price rise has been effected in the new bids.




Tough bargaining ahead for India's MMRCA winner : Defense news

 

[SpArK]

This explains why SaaB is seen lurking around.

 

[bengalraider]

The thing is these price escalations are here to stay and so if the FM goes bonkers and decides to scrap the whole program not only will we have spend a lot of our own money to no avail but we'll have wasted a lot of man hours as well(that also costs money). I sincerely hope the current deals go through and that this has not been an elaborate farce.

 

[Armand2REP]

This explains why SaaB is seen lurking around.

Sweden uses the Krona which is up 17% against the Euro, so it doesn't explain that at all.

 

[Armand2REP]

The thing is these price escalations are here to stay and so if the FM goes bonkers and decides to scrap the whole program not only will we have spend a lot of our own money to no avail but we'll have wasted a lot of man hours as well(that also costs money). I sincerely hope the current deals go through and that this has not been an elaborate farce.

Both deals are set in Euro so currency doesn't matter. If FinMin scraps MMRCA the IAF is doomed.

 

[nrj]

Both deals are set in Euro so currency doesn't matter. If FinMin scraps MMRCA the IAF is doomed.

What if FinMin scraps MMRCA & later calls France to award single vendor contract of rafale for IAF/IN as govt-govt deal?

Is IAF still doomed then?

 

[ace009]

If FinMin scraps MMRCA and then awards single vendor contract, then IAF pilots should go and piss in FinMin ...

 

[Sabir]

If GOI pays in Euro and in parts (it will take several years to have the planes) it may not be problem in long term. Rupee value may appreciate in coming days.

 

[Armand2REP]

What if FinMin scraps MMRCA & later calls France to award single vendor contract of rafale for IAF/IN as govt-govt deal?

Is IAF still doomed then?

Another deal would take years and IAF can't take any more delays. One line of MKI is not enough to replace the hundreds of MiGs that needed to go out of service yesterday. Every week is another MiG crash.

 

[nrj]

Another deal would take years and IAF can't take any more delays. One line of MKI is not enough to replace the hundreds of MiGs that needed to go out of service yesterday. Every week is another MiG crash.

Trust me, scrapping MMRCA & going ahead with govt-govt bulk deal from shortlisted contenders is Plan B. And it'll take same time as that of MMRCA schedule.

Too many european guests in south block these days. Fingers crossed.

 

[SpArK]

A week to go to release the fingers that are crossed.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

Trust me, scrapping MMRCA & going ahead with govt-govt bulk deal from shortlisted contenders is Plan B. And it'll take same time as that of MMRCA schedule.

Too many european guests in south block these days. Fingers crossed.

mate can such a thing happen?

would then the americans not try and make a back door entry as well?

would the russians not resurface as well?

wouldnt that open the whole mmrca yet again?

 

[Tomcat]

actually the GoI should go for a MMRCA 2 like the Barzilans and Boost up numbers

 

[SpArK]

mate can such a thing happen?

would then the americans not try and make a back door entry as well?

would the russians not resurface as well?

wouldnt that open the whole mmrca yet again?

I highly doubt whether the Mig-35 will be brought back to tables in case of a scrapping of MRCA.

They might go to the third and fourth best..

Do we have a proper ranking of the trial results like 123456

 

[thakur_ritesh]

I highly guess Mig-35 will be brought back to tables in case of a scrapping of MRCA.

They might go to the third and fourth best..

Do we have a proper ranking of the trial results like 123456

someone has to say mig35 will anyways join the IAF irrespective of the mmrca result, lets see how true?

i guess IAF would have a ranking done for sure.

 

[SpArK]

someone has to say mig35 will anyways join the IAF irrespective of the mmrca result, lets see how true?

i guess IAF would have a ranking done for sure.

And Migs have got the worst of the criticism if i am not wrong after the trails, F-16 has been ruled out obsolete and F-18 has been said to have engine issues and gripen, an unfinished radar.

So in that case most obvious ones are Gripen and Shornets.

 

[nrj]

mate can such a thing happen?

would then the americans not try and make a back door entry as well?

would the russians not resurface as well?

wouldnt that open the whole mmrca yet again?

Technically IAF has evaluated every fighter & GOI is not under any legal/political compulsion to fulfill MMRCA contract.

They can scrap this tender or put it on hold forever. All MoD will have to do is present a report on requisite purchases under 2011-12 accounts before cabinet. Then CCS will be just playing formal role on later stage. FinMinistry is kept in loop.

Other contenders or say americans in this case will be desperate or can shout for malpractice only if MoD signs 'commercial-deal' with single vendor while scrapping current MRCA tender. But if 7RCR steps in to create govt-govt deal then rest of the companies or their govts can't do jack about it.

As long as IAF gets fighter of their choice on time, nobody will complain.

But again this is another possibility. One can expect Antony avoiding rough road given MoD's conduct over this tender so far.

Added later:

It will not be reopening the MRCA again because IAF has evaluated fighters already & thus MoD's choice of fighter is clear. GOI will have to only build separate deal with corresponding govt of most preferable fighter's manufacturer.