Countering Chinese influence in the Subcontinent

johnee

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well correction:

1.west fears china more than India ,just because China has much more leverages on west than India .from economy to military.

2.ranting louderly can not bring other real attention......N.kroea is the perfect example.
See, why would any country fear you, if you were seen as inherently good, with or without leverage? West knows that China having leverage is bad news to them and rest of the world, so they fear. Of course, India also is gaining leverage, but no one is afraid, becoz India is seen as harmless. That reduces our leverage. Sometimes, being a bad guy has its own leverage and China uses that leverage well.
 

SATISH

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LiveFist: My article in FORCE: Act Now, Big Brother!

Act Now, Big Brother!
by Shiv Aroor

As the proverbial dust settles – if it ever really does settle – on Sri Lanka’s war against the Tamil Tigers, the country now totters in circumstances it was ill-prepared for. Ill-prepared, that is, unless it opens itself to an overwhelming amount of external influence. With what the government has called the “world’s largest rescue operation” of close to 300,000 Tamils slowly but surely turning into a catastrophic matrix of uncertainty for an entire community, the Sri Lankan government has still to provide any specific roadmap for their restitution beyond the vague, emotional calls for national reconciliation. It seems to be the case that not a single government ministry or department in Sri Lanka has a clear idea of what it has to do now. And that’s where the irony begins. Because no matter how many times President Mahinda Rajapaksa emphasises the need for a local solution and no matter how many times the international community is vilified, perhaps rightly sometimes, for its perceived double-standards on the Lankan operations, the journey from hereupon for Sri Lanka will involve a powerful foreign hand, and lots of foreign money. But strategic and economic influence is merely an end – the emerging humanitarian crisis is the means.

India has sent many tons of food and aid, and most recently dispatched two special envoys with over Rs 500 crore to be used specifically for the political rehabilitation of the Tamils. One could argue endlessly about India’s foreign policy as far as Sri Lanka is concerned, but the one thing you can say without doubt is that is has been shaky and inconsistent at the best of times. The Indian High Commissioner in Colombo was furious when I asked him how he was countering the Chinese influence on the island – he thundered “Look around you. The culture here is Indian, not Chinese.” And while that’s certainly true, many Sri Lankans believe that the uniqueness of the country’s current circumstances offer it the opportunity to shake off the past and push ahead with new friends, new solutions. Remember, an overwhelming number of adult Sri Lankans grew up watching India openly support groups that Colombo officially called terrorists. The influence of ‘Big Brother’ across the Palk Strait is never understated, but time has only barely healed the scars of resentment.

With an almost unanimous perception that the military onslaught was briefly paused for the Indian elections means that expectations from New Delhi now are justifiably high. National Security Advisor MK Narayanan has put it down to the indispensability of a political solution, charged with the promise that the 13th Amendment – a constitutional clause that provides for devolution of political powers to provinces – will be implemented in the true spirit of its intention to provide for a degree of political autonomy to areas with dominant Tamil populations. Of course, now, the geography of Sri Lanka has changed. There are no longer any Tamil-dominated areas. If they haven’t fallen to collateral waste, every last Tamil from the North and North-East now sits in any one of a handful of relief camps, clustered around the Vavuniya area. The facilities there include a well-praised Indian field hospital, recently shifted from Pulmodai on the East coast, where a small team of Indian doctors has spent over a month now treating a literally endless stream of patients. Injuries sustained in the crossfire apart, the camps have obviously bred diseases, sickness and a gargantuan measure of displacement trauma that will have to be addressed in its own right. The horror of displacement is the one illness that binds every last survivor in the camps.

The question now, of course is, what does Sri Lanka expect from India? And more importantly what do the displaced Tamils expect from a country they unwaveringly looked at as the mothership. Colombo now needs India for the gritty, unenviable task of making the North safe. Many Tamils in the camps are willing to forgive what they perceive as India’s detachment during the current operations, if only India guarantees that it will get them a future of honour, economic independence and a degree of political autonomy that puts them on par with the Sinhala majority. The political history of the island would blunt the sentiments of even the most pathological optimist, but Sri Lankan Tamils nurse fervent hopes that these are changed times. At any rate, the Tamil question may never be resolved with any measure of haste, considering that there are challenges ahead that threaten life and limb more than social inequalities.

One of the biggest, most immediate and challenging tasks is the de-mining of the Northern areas. Thousands upon thousands of landmines were apparently planted by the LTTE without record across enormous swathes of land to blunt the Sri Lankan Army offensive. The Army progressively cut a fine line through the vast minefields into the war zone – at least 800 soldiers reportedly died in landmine blasts during these operations. Unless the North is satisfactorily de-mined, nobody can go back. According to one report, the Northern part of Sri Lanka could be more heavily mined now than Afghanistan was in 2001. A team of Indian military de-mining engineers will assist Sri Lankan authorities to kick-start an exercise that could, according to the Lankan Peace Secretariat, take up to five years. Indeed, it could be marked out by international agencies as a mine-contaminated zone forever.

The other area which India will be expected to contribute heavily towards is the rebuilding of the North. I travelled from Kilinochchi to the banks of the Puthumathalan lagoon on May 2 – a mere sample of the area of operations. The entire zone is an unending canvas of destruction. Not a single building stands still. Operations have reduced the area to a veritable graveyard of twisted metal and concrete. The only humans that you can still see there are army troops, who stand on guard against possible revenge attacks by any survivors from the Tamil Tigers.

The word opportunity is used a lot in Sri Lanka these days. This is an ‘opportunity’ for the Tamils to shake off their marginalised past. This is an ‘opportunity’ for the government to establish a truly multi-ethnic society void of Sinhala chauvinism. This is an ‘opportunity’ for India to leave its past foreign policy blunders behind and get right back on track. This is an ‘opportunity’ for New Delhi to counter Beijing’s rapidly rising strategic influence in the Indian Ocean Region. This is also an ‘opportunity’ for South Block to prove that, when it comes to the neighbourhood, India does not always have to be resoundingly impervious to reality. With a relatively stable government in harness in New Delhi, and local Indian political equations suitably realigned, there is every ‘opportunity’ for a new complexion to Indo-Lankan ties – ties could benefit Colombo, and at the same time address Indian concerns.

R Sampanthan, leader of Sri Lanka’s Tamil National Alliance (TNA), and one of the most vocal Tamil politicians in the country, says, “India is very clearly back in the picture. There can be no question about it. India is going to be fully involved both in the matter of resettlement of displaced people, as well as extracting assurances about the collective political future of Sri Lankan Tamils.” It is Sampanthan’s use of the phrase “back in the picture” that is operative here. A full retinue of Tamil politicians, who flocked to India House in Colombo on May 21 to meet Foreign Secretary Shiv Shankar Menon and National Security Advisor MK Narayanan, urged the special envoys to ensure that India did not waver from its commitment to the Tamil cause this time around. Their request is not without reason. The Manmohan Singh government is seen as having fully supported the Mahinda Rajapaksa government in its operations against the LTTE, at the risk of appearing to wash its hands off the Tamil question, and what aid agencies have almost unanimously called a humanitarian crisis.

Something that troubles island Tamils no end is the Sri Lankan government’s categorical and persistent refusal to acknowledge that a humanitarian crisis has precipitated as a result of its military operations. They feel that while temporary displacement and collateral damage can somehow be understood – if not condoned – as the fallouts of any military intervention, the government’s stubbornness in recognising the situation as a crisis portends ill. Getting the Sri Lankan government to start its journey towards reconciliation by at least recognising that it has a humanitarian problem of enormous proportions on its hands, is also something that island Tamils expect from India. For now though, the wave of euphoria that sweeps Sri Lanka will not permit the establishment from giving up the notion that the military operation has simply constituted the world’s largest rescue operation. Some argue that the ‘rescue operation’ was the means, and the humanitarian crisis, the end, and the two were therefore not comparable no matter which way you look at it.

There are a large number of Tamils who simply don’t believe that there’s a better life instore for them. Their logic is that when the Sri Lankan government was materially threatened by the presence of the LTTE and the geographical consolidation of the Tamils in the North and East, its policy was one of prejudice. And that now with control of the entire island – not to mention the entire Tamil population – it has no incentive to change its policies towards the island’s largest ethnic minority. The very same Tamils also view President Rajapaksa’s call for “magnanimity in victory” as representative of the lingering systemic condescension with which the majority Sinhala population supposedly regards the minorities. They believe, not without reason that while a lot has changed over the years, the essential sentiments that were enshrined in President Samuel Bandaranaike’s notorious Sinhala Only Act of 1956 – an Act widely believed to have sparked off the impulse towards Tamil separatism – continue to prevail in spirit.

Possibly the most ironic and perverse era of India’s relations with Sri Lanka was in the late eighties. It was a time when Rajiv Gandhi’s peacekeepers were engaged in full-frontal battle with the Tamil Tigers, while wounded Tigers were being treated by the boatload on Indian territory and sent back to continue fighting Indian soldiers. It was also a time when the LTTE, supposedly the enemy of Sri Lankan sovereignty, was being secretly armed by the then President Ranasinghe Premadasa himself, all in an effort to settle political scores with Rajiv Gandhi. It’s probably representative of just how deeply twisted the transpirations were that both Gandhi and Premadasa were summarily assassinated by the Tigers shortly thereafter.

There is, then, an overwhelming expectation from India not to allow the ghosts of the past to revisit this stunningly beautiful island. They say conflict is power. It certainly is political and diplomatic power. But if India is to live up to its Big Brother sobriquet, without any of the devious Orwellian connotations, it will be expected to act sensitively, act prudently, and most importantly, act now.
 

Vinod2070

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No it wouldn't. The US has long supported shady regimes with weapons.
Koji, why don't you come clean about your location and origin?

It is very clear where your sympathies lie. No need to fake it. We allow Chinese members here with open arms.
 

Koji

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Koji, why don't you come clean about your location and origin?

It is very clear where your sympathies lie. No need to fake it. We allow Chinese members here with open arms.
Location right now is US, origin Japan.
 

constantin

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Something has to be done really fast by the Indians, as China has gained image by giving help to Lanka on their war on LTTE. and NOw China is developing a port in SriLanka for now the port will be for Civil use but who knows what China will do with that? Anyways it gives an alarming signal. Enews this article talks about how China has surrounded India from all sides.
 

Ray

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Koji

kutabare in Japanese.

China will reach its dead end since the underdeveloped areas such as the western areas with a high rural population are already in a rebellious mood.

The Communist Party in China are in total fear and are trying desperate reforms, which are not working.

No, but it will reduce China's stature from a potential superpower to a terrorist state.
No it wouldn't. The US has long supported shady regimes with weapons.
 
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Something has to be done really fast by the Indians, as China has gained image by giving help to Lanka on their war on LTTE. and NOw China is developing a port in SriLanka for now the port will be for Civil use but who knows what China will do with that? Anyways it gives an alarming signal. Enews this article talks about how China has surrounded India from all sides.
depending on these puppet states to fight their battles has been the chinese modus operandii but when it comes down to doing something when asked by China they will all take the money and run, they couldn't give a dam about China.
 
S

SammyCheung

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Koji

kutabare in Japanese.

China will reach its dead end since the underdeveloped areas such as the western areas with a high rural population are already in a rebellious mood.

The Communist Party in China are in total fear and are trying desperate reforms, which are not working.
It's hilarious that Indians actually think this when world economic power is quickly shifting to China, while India's credit is about to get downgraded.

There is no comparison..... the gap between India and China is bigger than the gap between China and USA.
 
J

JattDaDanda

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It's hilarious that Indians actually think this when world economic power is quickly shifting to China, while India's credit is about to get downgraded.

There is no comparison..... the gap between India and China is bigger than the gap between China and USA.
Dream on Chechung if you haven't looked at how many factories and companies have shut down in china just in this year then u my friend is daydreaming. Next year you will see even more shutting down in china. so before u open your mouth do yourself a favor and research a little.
 
S

SammyCheung

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LOL. Uncompetitive firms shut down, competitive ones win out.

China's GDP is growing at more than 7% for 2009.

China is buying up resources and strategic assets all around the world.

Guess who's going to win in the end?
 
S

SammyCheung

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Wow that was a mature post.

I'm amused. In our world India is just some far off distant annoying neighbor. But to you, we're the biggest strategic threat because we're far more powerful.

Unlike you, we don't obsess over Pakistan. That is just one of a constellation of relationships that center around the Middle Kingdom.
 

A.V.

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no personal attacks tolerated here in the forum members please follow forum rules
 
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LOL. Uncompetitive firms shut down, competitive ones win out.

China's GDP is growing at more than 7% for 2009.

China is buying up resources and strategic assets all around the world.

Guess who's going to win in the end?

USA will win you guys are still a developing country.
 
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Wow that was a mature post.

I'm amused. In our world India is just some far off distant annoying neighbor. But to you, we're the biggest strategic threat because we're far more powerful.

Unlike you, we don't obsess over Pakistan. That is just one of a constellation of relationships that center around the Middle Kingdom.
let's see you implement the one china policy be taking tiny taiwan until then you are just paper tigers full of hot air.
 

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China losing its grip on Pakistan

China losing its grip on Pakistan

By Hari Sud
Column: Abroad ViewPublished: July 03, 2009

Toronto, ON, Canada, — Since the early 1990s, China has taken advantage of opportunities to move strategically and militarily closer to Pakistan, always with an eye on rival India. China took advantage of U.S. pique over Pakistan from 1992 to 2001, and of political instability in Pakistan induced by the Pakistani army. China befriended former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto and offered the country missile technology via North Korea.
China also helped Pakistan build its nuclear reactor and stockpile plutonium to offset India’s advantage. The military partnership included building a Pakistani version of a Chinese jet fighter, and a military port at Gwadar in Balochistan province at the apex of the Arabian Sea. China also supplied other military hardware, although inferior, that could not be procured in the West or Russia.

The United States from 1992 until 2001 lost interest in Pakistan after the Soviet Union broke up and interest in Afghanistan waned. But to maintain leverage with the Pakistani government, the United States continued supplying it with spare parts for military hardware given earlier and other low-key financial assistance.

The United States was not happy about the rise of the Taliban in Afghanistan, but supported attempts to bring political stability to the war-torn nation. The Taliban seemed to provide just that – albeit under brutal Islamic law. Unhindered, they were also busy inviting like-minded individuals like Osama bin Laden into their midst.

India in 1997 tested its atom bomb, and so did Pakistan. An overconfident Pakistani military overthrew the civilian government and began a fresh military offensive with India in the Kargil Mountains of Indian-administered Kashmir. This was a bad move by Pakistan.

While the United States opposed the overthrow of Pakistan’s civilian government, it also disliked Pakistan detonating the atom bomb despite advice against it. Further, it hated the Kargil misadventure. From 1997 till 2001, Pakistan was in the U.S. bad books. Concurrently China accelerated its low-key approach to draw Pakistan into its orbit.

Then came the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attack on the World Trade Center in New York, and the days of the Taliban were numbered. They ran to Pakistan’s border region to seek protection. It was the Pakistanis who created the Taliban, so their protection from the big, ugly and ruthless Americans was essential.

Former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell in September, 2001, gave Pakistan three days to decide whether it was “with us or against us.” Pakistan reluctantly joined the United States to punish the perpetrators of 9/11, but privately supported the Taliban and Osama bin Laden.

Playing a double game, Pakistan asked the United States for quick military and economic aid in 2001; at the same time it sought Chinese aid to build the Gwadar port to offset India’s naval advantages. Also, in 2007 new medium-quality fighters from China appeared in Pakistani skies.

China played a good game, but it miscalculated. It realized the Pakistanis could shift over to the U.S. orbit in a jiffy if a suitable offer was made. That offer came in early 2009, when U.S. President Barack Obama’s administration turned sympathetic toward Pakistan’s plight and offered long-term aid to the tune of US$1.5 billion. China could have matched the offer, but refusing the U.S. offer would have had grave consequences for Pakistan.

The new Obama administration has understood Pakistan’s double play between the Taliban and the United States, and has again asked them to choose. To ensure continued economic and military support, Pakistan chose to go with the United States, and began its war on the Pakistani Taliban. Now with Pakistan firmly in the U.S. orbit, China-Pakistan relations have come under strain.

Pakistan supported the Chinese 50 years ago only in pique against India. In return, China showered it with gifts and diplomatic and military support. With this China thought it had effectively neutralized India. But the United States changed the equation completely.

In the last 20 years, an overconfident China has been exerting pressure on India’s northern border. Until the late 1980s the subject was dormant, as late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping willed it to be placed on the back burner. However, a new breed of Chinese leaders began sniping as soon as Deng died.

To make their point, they built an economically unimportant China-Tibet rail link. This rail link is miserably weak because of its construction on permafrost. It also upgraded its military infrastructure along the Indian border to intimidate India.

All these issues make the region’s geopolitics interesting if viewed collectively. Pakistan is back in the U.S. fold but internally it is stuck in a fight with Pushtun tribesmen, who form the Pakistani version of Afghanistan’s Taliban. The urban insurgency unleashed by angry tribesmen has turned more serious.

India, sensing a bit of a respite from constant insurgency in Kashmir, has begun reinforcing its northern border in Tibet to face China. The Chinese, unable to find a strategic equilibrium in South Asia, have upped the propaganda against India with India bashing as their new pastime.

U.S. State Department officials and National Security Advisor James L. Jones, on a recent spate of visits to the region, have stressed the need to resume the India-Pakistan dialogue that was halted after the Mumbai terror attack last November.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s proposed visit may set the political tone for the upcoming India-Pakistan talks. Progress will depend on how much pressure the United States can exert on Pakistan to relent on its terrorism agenda. If progress is significant, Obama may visit India and Pakistan and witness a firm handshake between the warring nations.

None of this could be to China’s liking. China wants Pakistan to keep its daggers drawn toward India.

Realizing that Pakistan is less of a threat now, India has begun countering the Chinese threat in Tibet, hoping to neutralize China’s build-up over the past 20 years. Assuming the Chinese can deploy an additional 10 divisions from their reserves to augment their current strength of 14 divisions in Tibet, it is still inadequate to mount an attack on India. Half of this force is needed to keep Tibet calm while the remaining force would face an Indian gauntlet in the Himalayas.

Not only that, India has eight divisions in the eastern sector facing China and will deploy an additional 40,000 heavily equipped mountain and snow warfare troops this year. In addition, two divisions keep an eye on China in the West, reinforced by an additional 20,000 troops who have been reassigned as the threat from Pakistan has diminished. Presently, India can match China’s power.

India has upgraded a major military and air force base close to the Chinese border in the east. It will field a squadron of the mightiest fighter jet in the world, the SU-30MK1. This fighter jet in friendly combat with U.S. F-15Cs and F-16s scored nine out of ten victories. This squadron alone can not only neutralize the Chinese air force in Tibet, but also bomb the China-Tibet rail link by melting the permafrost on which it stands. Without it, China will have difficulty resupplying 400,000 troops in Tibet.

In international politics, shifting sand the way the Pakistanis have done is not unusual. The Americans did the same to Egypt in 1978 when they took Anwar Sadat out of the Middle East equation. The loser in that case was the Arab world. In the case of Pakistan moving into the U.S. orbit, the loser will be China. India will be a net gainer.

--

(Hari Sud is a retired vice president of C-I-L Inc., a former investment strategies analyst and international relations manager. A graduate of Punjab University and the University of Missouri, he has lived in Canada for the past 34 years. ©Copyright Hari Sud.)
 
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China cannot offer Pakistan close to what US can, a good example is the refugee aid given recently many country gave 100's of millions to the refugees and China gave one of the lowest amounts of any country, if you want to buy someone you can't be cheap at the same time.
 

Daredevil

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what really caught my eye in this article is

India has upgraded a major military and air force base close to the Chinese border in the east. It will field a squadron of the mightiest fighter jet in the world, the SU-30MK1. This fighter jet in friendly combat with U.S. F-15Cs and F-16s scored nine out of ten victories. This squadron alone can not only neutralize the Chinese air force in Tibet, but also bomb the China-Tibet rail link by melting the permafrost on which it stands. Without it, China will have difficulty resupplying 400,000 troops in Tibet.
The China-tibet link is built on a very loose soil called Permafrost. There is a paragraph on Wikipedia about the construction of building on Permafrost which says(Permafrost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

Building on permafrost is difficult due to the heat of the building (or pipeline) melting the permafrost and sinking. This problem has three common solutions: using foundations on wood piles; building on a thick gravel pad (usually 1-2 meters/3.3-6.6 feet thick); or using anhydrous ammonia heat pipes. The Trans-Alaska Pipeline System uses insulated heat pipes to prevent the pipeline from sinking. Qingzang railway in Tibet was built using a variety of methods to keep the ground cool.
I can clearly see that China-Tibet rail link is highly vulnerable to destruction due melting of Permafrost. Any increase in temperature (for eg by global warming) of permafrost on which this rail link is build will cause it to sink into the ground. During war, this link is highly vulnerable to multiple bombings and can effectively cut-off mainland China from Tibet from faster transit of goods. I think this is a good news for India.
 
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SammyCheung

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Pakistan is a sovereign nation. It can do what it wants. Pakistan is not likely to have good relations with India in the near future, so China will have a role.

I can clearly see that China-Tibet rail link is highly vulnerable to destruction due melting of Permafrost. Any increase in temperature (for eg by global warming) of permafrost on which this rail link is build will cause it to sink into the ground. During war, this link is highly vulnerable to multiple bombings and can effectively cut-off mainland China from Tibet from faster transit of goods. I think this is a good news for India.
The point of the railway is the move heavy equipment into the combat theater before shots begin. In fact, China is quickly building up now.
 

1.44

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No doubt the China-Tibet Railway will be more like a liability and impede resupplying it's troops,while India will have it easier to supply it's troops provided adequate railway infrastructure is developed in Border Areas.
Due to it's closeness to the border it will be highly susceptible to bombing.

 

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