Could the Arjun be a good fit for Taiwan???

[Yatharth Singh]

Dude, you are a total fanboy. Period.
The Arjun is NOT anywhere NEAR the best 10 tanks in the world.

Why?
First finish the god damn development, then talk.

If you disagree then show me the actual list of top 10 modern tanks of the world.
Arjun tank is currently active in the Indian army.(1 regiment in service i.e 64+ tanks and 248 on order)

 

[Agantrope]

Dude, you are a total fanboy. Period.
The Arjun is NOT anywhere NEAR the best 10 tanks in the world.

Why?
First finish the god damn development, then talk.

Buddy, the so-called 10 top tanks you have mentioned would be from

US, UK, German, French, Ruks, Israels, Japs aka NATO Nations, the remaining places are alone given to the rest of World.

Lets be in Peace Amen!

 

[Agantrope]

Neither has China interfered or given much thought to the Kashmir issue.

Kashmir problem is a legacy left by British, the first country you should blame is Britain. The second one you blame is US who actually directed the conflicts over Kashmir between India and Pakistan.

Little Nimo, cool first; Come to the outer World, out of censorship and brainwashing.

You people dont have a dare to talk about the Kashmir issue.

See this link if you net is not censored, http://www.indian-elections.com/jammu-kashmir/index.html

The stats of the election that held in kashmir last year. See the turn out. It is quite amazing. Now dont tell me that they were forced to vote out by the Indian Army i have reply to that question as i see that as 99.999% BS

Drink Milk grow up, Insha Allah!

 

[BunBunCake]

If you disagree then show me the actual list of top 10 modern tanks of the world.
Arjun tank is currently active in the Indian army.(1 regiment in service i.e 64+ tanks and 248 on order)

There is no such official listing bro. The Arjun is = Junky. Tell your DRDO to fix it first.
No, I'm not a Pakistani disguised as an Indian, but I ain't no fanboy.

@As agantrope said, it's tech from those countries that are top now. (Mainly because they share technology, and India's not included in that)

 

[Agantrope]

There is no such official listing bro. The Arjun is = Junky. Tell your DRDO to fix it first.
No, I'm not a Pakistani disguised as an Indian, but I ain't no fanboy.

@As agantrope said, it's tech from those countries that are top now. (Mainly because they share technology, and India's not included in that)

It is not the technology, rather media propaganda and you forgot one thing that arjun is not a junk. It is easy to speak fro there, just take a look at the arjun's performance. Arjun electronics are hydrib of Indian and Israelis. May be Sayareakd and PPGJ can post more details on the arjun. IA will be strong when it comes to Desi maal.

If there were a border skirmish and i need arjun to speak in that sweet language with our adversary to show its performance

 

[SHASH2K2]

There is no such official listing bro. The Arjun is = Junky. Tell your DRDO to fix it first.
No, I'm not a Pakistani disguised as an Indian, but I ain't no fanboy.

@As agantrope said, it's tech from those countries that are top now. (Mainly because they share technology, and India's not included in that)

I know that Arjun in not the best or top 10 tanks in the world. If you feel that Its a junk Please come up with some solid evidence.Else donot comment. all guys who comment in this kind of thread are specialists and have more than enough logic's to tick to their points. Also Arjun worthiness has been proved by trials against T90 and also verified by Independent observers.

Regarding you being disguised as Indian I know that you are an Indian but way you recklessly pass -ve comments on almost everything that is good you can be easily mistaken as one who is in disguise as in Indian .

 

[BunBunCake]

I know that Arjun in not the best or top 10 tanks in the world. If you feel that Its a junk Please come up with some solid evidence.Else donot comment. all guys who comment in this kind of thread are specialists and have more than enough logic's to tick to their points. Also Arjun worthiness has been proved by trials against T90 and also verified by Independent observers.

Regarding you being disguised as Indian I know that you are an Indian but way you recklessly pass -ve comments on almost everything that is good you can be easily mistaken as one who is in disguise as in Indian .

Solid comments? Ok.

1. Project Development started in 1972----not operational in 2010.
2. Overweight --- 59 tons. And with this LAHAT system it will be OVER 60.
3. Not a proven tank

You mention the trials vs T-90. That's because the Arjun has a better fire control mechanism provided by ISRAEL (no, DRDO didn't develop it) That's got nothing to do with it's Temperature problems, Engine Failures, and Subsystems failures.

When you come to a level where you can compare the Arjun with the Leopard-2, Challenger, then we can argue if the Arjun is top 10, or top #1 later.

 

[BunBunCake]

It is not the technology, rather media propaganda and you forgot one thing that arjun is not a junk. It is easy to speak fro there, just take a look at the arjun's performance. Arjun electronics are hydrib of Indian and Israelis. May be Sayareakd and PPGJ can post more details on the arjun. IA will be strong when it comes to Desi maal.

If there were a border skirmish and i need arjun to speak in that sweet language with our adversary to show its performance

Bro, all these western countries share TECHNOLOGY. Components of the Leopard-2 (such as the main gun) are used in the Challenger as variants. The armour used by/developed for the Challenger is used in American Abrams. What other "main" components do you want them to share?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Solid comments? Ok.

1. Project Development started in 1972----not operational in 2010.
2. Overweight --- 59 tons. And with this LAHAT system it will be OVER 60.
3. Not a proven tank

You mention the trials vs T-90. That's because the Arjun has a better fire control mechanism provided by ISRAEL (no, DRDO didn't develop it) That's got nothing to do with it's Temperature problems, Engine Failures, and Subsystems failures.

When you come to a level where you can compare the Arjun with the Leopard-2, Challenger, then we can argue if the Arjun is top 10, or top #1 later.

You are welcome here:
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/9558-Arjun-News-and-Discussions-II/page17

This thread is abt ' Could the Arjun be a good fit for Taiwan???', therefore Discussion on 'how bad is Arjun' is not fair..

 

[Agantrope]

Bro, all these western countries share TECHNOLOGY. Components of the Leopard-2 (such as the main gun) are used in the Challenger as variants. The armour used by/developed for the Challenger is used in American Abrams. What other "main" components do you want them to share?

Your knowledge is not far reached. Arjun and Leopard are near Siblings, Designed by the same company Krauss Maffei. Main diff between Arjun and Leopard is the Gun and sloped Armour technology

 

[BunBunCake]

Your knowledge is not far reached. Arjun and Leopard are near Siblings, Designed by the same company Krauss Maffei. Main diff between Arjun and Leopard is the Gun and sloped Armour technology

Yes, that's the design. That doesn't include the components.

1. Engine
2. Armour
2. Gun
3. FCS
4. Protection Suite (mine protection, SMOKE DISPENSERS) <-- No in Arjun

Dude that's more than 50% of what's in a tank.
NONE of these common amongst Arjun and Leopard.

The mere design of the tank does play a big role in it's capability to move but nothing else.

 

[ppgj]

@UchihaCG

i quote from your post -

You contradict yourself there. You fail hard.

Here's your quote, saying the MKK is no match for the MKI
Yes, I may seem like a professional critic for people who are ignorant.
You said the MKK is not a match for the MKI and that you can't even compare those two because the MKI is god.

Aren't you doing the same thing? Typing this from your computer? Or wait, you got voice recognition software that posts as you speak?

You should read more.

There's a word: Hypocrite.

that is post # 16 here -

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/11940-Sukhoi-30-MKI-vs-MKK?p=156280#post156280

in which you thrash and call "yathartha singh" as ignorant and make fun of him!!!!

and then you come here and say this -

There is no such official listing bro. The Arjun is = Junky. Tell your DRDO to fix it first.
No, I'm not a Pakistani disguised as an Indian, but I ain't no fanboy.

@As agantrope said, it's tech from those countries that are top now. (Mainly because they share technology, and India's not included in that)

i am confused.

you say you are a professional critic for the "ignorant" and go on to make the most "knowledgable" comment like - the Arjun is junk!!!

does the "hypocrite" you called yathartha singh apply here??

will you "read more" - same you advise others??

 

[BunBunCake]

@UchihaCG
i quote from your post -
that is post # 16 here -
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php/11940-Sukhoi-30-MKI-vs-MKK?p=156280#post156280
in which you thrash and call "yathartha singh" as ignorant and make fun of him!!!!
and then you come here and say this -
i am confused.
you say you are a professional critic for the "ignorant" and go on to make the most "knowledgable" comment like - the Arjun is junk!!!
does the "hypocrite" you called yathartha singh apply here??
will you "read more" - same you advise others??

Excuse me, you obviously don't understand what's going on here. Let me explain to you like A, B, C, D. If you care to read what he posted, you'd understand my comment.

You see there is nothing to be compared in Su 30 MKK and MKI because MKK variant is no match for Su 30MKI. Take any specification such as speed, payload, range, weapons Su 30 MKI is above the MKK.

I reply saying the MKK is not much worse than the MKI. MKI isn't god.

Then I get:

Well who is better and who is not, this cant be said by sitting at home an till there is a real competition between the two. You cant say anything about any fighting machine until it experiences a real test in a war.

You should look up the definition of hypocrisy.


And calling the Arjun the Junk doesn't make me ignorant. I have listed already my reasons. Are they not enough for you?--Go read the post on the top.

People here keep calling it "top 10" in the world. Saying it here isn't enough. The Arjun doesn't MATCH to any capabilities of Western Tanks, when it comes to Armour, Firepower, TECHNOLOGY, and Mainly Self Protection. The Arjun currently doesn't have ANYTHING. No warning system even. DRDO can keep saying "we are GOING to do it" but that doesn't change things. Speaking at the current status of the tank, it's a piece of crap. Look at it's weight. Soon with this LAHAT added, it'll be over 60 tons. Even with this 58 tons, it doesn't have decent protection elements.

I'll listen to your advice and "read more" once you prove to me that what I said was false, and the Arjun is truely a capable tank.

Don't give me the Arjun vs T-90. Look at my previous post already.



@Coming back to topic.
No, the Arjun ISN'T a good fit for Taiwan, because our own Armed Forces haven't accepted it, what makes people think someone else will accept it. + It's still in this 40+ year DEVELOPMENT stage. Get out of that first. Then we can look for "sales".

 

[Yatharth Singh]

There is no such official listing bro. The Arjun is = Junky. Tell your DRDO to fix it first.
No, I'm not a Pakistani disguised as an Indian, but I ain't no fanboy.

@As agantrope said, it's tech from those countries that are top now. (Mainly because they share technology, and India's not included in that)

According to you Arjun = junk. You are abusing the hardwork of those scientist and engineers who worked for decades to design and produce Arjun. Feed this thing in your mind that the Arjun project is completed and is ready for mass production, so dont repeat this that it is an incompleted crap. Arjun hasnt been participated in any war or operation so how could you say it is a junk or crap? But you can say this that Arjun is a good tank as it has overrun T90 in recent tests. Now you will say that it is because it is fitted with Israel components. So what if it fitted with any foreign component, now finally it is a tank named Arjun and only India has its manufacturing rights. So stop repeating this that India has imported the technology from foriegn lands. India has assembled foreign components because it can afford it and now they are Indian. If you purchase something then it will be your property and you have the right to use it anywhere and thats what India is doing so why are you continuosly and unnecessarily speaking on this topic.

 

[Yatharth Singh]

People here keep calling it "top 10" in the world. Saying it here isn't enough. The Arjun doesn't MATCH to any capabilities of Western Tanks, when it comes to Armour, Firepower, TECHNOLOGY, and Mainly Self Protection. The Arjun currently doesn't have ANYTHING. No warning system even. DRDO can keep saying "we are GOING to do it" but that doesn't change things. Speaking at the current status of the tank, it's a piece of crap. Look at it's weight. Soon with this LAHAT added, it'll be over 60 tons. Even with this 58 tons, it doesn't have decent protection elements.

I'll listen to your advice and "read more" once you prove to me that what I said was false, and the Arjun is truely a capable tank.

Don't give me the Arjun vs T-90. Look at my previous post already.



@Coming back to topic.
No, the Arjun ISN'T a good fit for Taiwan, because our own Armed Forces haven't accepted it, what makes people think someone else will accept it. + It's still in this 40+ year DEVELOPMENT stage. Get out of that first. Then we can look for "sales".

First of all, your M1 Abrams(60.1 tonnes) is too heavy than Arjun. About the armour, we have the Kanchan armour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_(tank)#Protection
The turret and glacis are heavily armoured and use "Kanchan" ("gold") modular composite armour. The Kanchan armour got its name from Kanchan Bagh, Hyderabad, where the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory (DMRL) is located.[23] The armour is made by sandwiching composite panels between Rolled Homogenous Armor (RHA) to defeat APFDS or HEAT rounds. During the trials in 2000, the Kanchan was able to withstand a hit from a T-72 at point blank range, and was able to defeat all available HESH and APFSDS rounds, which included the Israeli APFSDS rounds.[23] A new honeycomb design non-explosive and non-energetic reactive armour (NERA) armour is reportedly being tested on the Arjun.[24]
A Mobile Camouflage System has been developed and integrated into the Arjun as part of the 'Development of Defensive Aids System' project.[25]
An interface box of the Advanced Laser Warning Countermeasure System (ALWCS) for the fire control system has been developed.The ALWCS has been integrated on Arjun MBT and trials have been carried out.


who told you that IA hasnt accepted Arjun.
In March 2010, the Arjun was pitted against the T-90 in comparative trials and performed well. Subsequently the Army placed an order for an additional 124 tanks on May 17 2010http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arjun_(tank)

 

[BunBunCake]

According to you Arjun = junk. You are abusing the hard work of those scientist and engineers who worked for decades to design and produce Arjun.

Saw that coming. Funniest thing i've heard. Those scientists were paid for it. They took decades longer than expected. That's their fault. I'm not going to appreciate their work even if it's faulty. Maybe to you they are "great Indian Scientists" but not me.

Take a look at this development "HISTORY" <-- joke:
http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/september/tank.htm

Feed this thing in your mind that the Arjun project is completed and is ready for mass production, so dont repeat this that it is an incompleted crap.

No one is disputing the fact that the current arjuns are done w/ development. If you were referring to my post about selling to Taiwan, yes. We aren't going to sell them this good for nothing piece. The MK2 is in development. And it's been 40 years, yet no decent product still. We need an MK2, while the production for the first order is still going on.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/dc-comment/when-arjun-beat-t-90-754
May 2010.

Arjun hasnt been participated in any war or operation so how could you say it is a junk or crap?

The same way you said the MKI is a better fighter than the MKK.

But you can say this that Arjun is a good tank as it has overrun T90 in recent tests. Now you will say that it is because it is fitted with Israel components. So what if it fitted with any foreign component, now finally it is a tank named Arjun and only India has its manufacturing rights. So stop repeating this that India has imported the technology from foriegn lands. India has assembled foreign components because it can afford it and now they are Indian. If you purchase something then it will be your property and you have the right to use it anywhere and thats what India is doing so why are you continuosly and unnecessarily speaking on this topic.

No one said that Israel will stop selling to India. I never mentioned that. You invented it. What I said was that it's pathetic how the components of the Arjun aren't even developed in India.--The great scientists you mentioned. ^.^ seem to be slacking a bit.

http://theasiandefence.blogspot.com/2010/05/indigenous-arjun-mbt-has-only-42.html
LOL!
You call that Indigenous?

So, if you believe that i'm wrong by saying the Arjun isn't capable, then tell me what the protection the Arjun has except for it's basic laser warning, and "armour".

 

[BunBunCake]

First of all, your M1 Abrams(60.1 tonnes) is too heavy than Arjun. About the armour, we have the Kanchan armour.

Obviously you don't understand this. The armour isn't the only thing a tank uses for defense.

who told you that IA hasnt accepted Arjun.
In March 2010, the Arjun was pitted against the T-90 in comparative trials and performed well. Subsequently the Army placed an order for an additional 124 tanks on May 17 2010

Rofl, can you tell me how many T-90's were ordered? =love
If the Arjun is so much better than the T-90 (you mention it did so well in comparative trials) why doesn't it order more?

124 tanks is rubbish!

 

[Yatharth Singh]

Uchiha the way you are criticizing is not correct. You are saying Arjun a rubbish, who are you to say this? Have you created a world class tank or are you the designer or M1 Abrams?
The point, according to you was whether IA has accepted Arjun or not. And when you failed to prove yourself then you are producing comments like this that "why only 124?"

 

[Yusuf]

Thread on pros and cons of arjun, good or bad etc exits. Anything more to share on how Arjun may or may not be suitable for Taiwan?? Will close this thread if not.

 

[Agantrope]

Saw that coming. Funniest thing i've heard. Those scientists were paid for it. They took decades longer than expected. That's their fault. I'm not going to appreciate their work even if it's faulty. Maybe to you they are "great Indian Scientists" but not me.

Take a look at this development "HISTORY" <-- joke:
http://www.defencejournal.com/2001/september/tank.htm

Man wont you understand what we are speaking. It was a troubled project then, but past is past. Even US suffered lot of spacecraft crashes, that does means it is a failure program? No it all evolved in time.

FYI more than 15% NASA employees (scientists) are Indian born

Even your own government arm twisted the sale of arjun to Columbia.