Contrasting: Gotra, Varna, and Caste

[Screambowl]

Your knowledge of Hinduism and Vedic religion is quite poor. The fact is just opposite of what you say.

Vedic religion has no caste system whatsoever. Caste originated when people of India forgot "dharm".

Study purified "Manu Smriti" as brought out by Arya Press.

The classes given in Veda IS NOT caste. These are based on achievement of the person.

No one is arguing what is caste.. what I said is about GOTRA!!! Please try to differentiate and think deep to what I said.

GOTRA defines caste , but the GOTRA system is not to define caste but just family tree. It's a very good and balanced and most advanced way to define from which family tree one belongs to or identify the ancestors.

If there is no caste then there is NO GOTRA identification, and then you will end up marrying into same Gotra to a girl which will be your SISTER!

The Problem is NOT in CASTE but it's understanding and today's interpretation.

Hence the ango saxons want to destroy this perfect order of family tree and promote their way of living and definition of ancestors of ours. And this is what Brahmins are fighting for because Brahmins understand the value of this system and it's importance in future to keep the Identity of Bharat a unique.

understand? I can explain much better if you don't.

 

[garg_bharat]

No one is arguing what is caste.. what I said is about GOTRA!!! Please try to differentiate and think deep to what I said.

GOTRA defines caste , but the GOTRA system is not to define caste but just family tree. It's a very good and balanced and most advanced way to define from which family tree one belongs to or identify the ancestors.

If there is no caste then there is NO GOTRA identification, and then you will end up marrying into same Gotra to a girl which will be your SISTER!

The Problem is NOT in CASTE but it's understanding and today's interpretation.

Hence the ango saxons want to destroy this perfect order of family tree and promote their way of living and definition of ancestors of ours. And this is what Brahmins are fighting for because Brahmins understand the value of this system and it's importance in future to keep the Identity of Bharat a unique.

understand? I can explain much better if you don't.

You are confused. Please quote from Veda or Manusmriti and then we shall discuss.

I cannot take just your statement as a sound argument.

Brahmins are confused too. I talked about this issue with lot of people. It is ignorance and false pride that drives caste system.

 

[Screambowl]

You are confused. Please quote from Veda or Manusmriti and then we shall discuss.

I cannot take just your statement as a sound argument.

Brahmins are confused too. I talked about this issue with lot of people. It is ignorance and false pride that drives caste system.

I don't trust you when you say you spoke to many Brahmins. I don't know which Brahmins you spoke to.. well as far as I know Brahmins and those I have met, are clear about their views. Though they do not like to share with every one.

Secondly AS I TOLD YOU, you know shit about Indian system of Gotra. The GOTRA explains you and give you exactly lineage of your ancestors. Not even the Britishers or French have able to maintain it. They were in Jungles when Gotra system was implemented in Bharat since the Human learnt to socialize.

Would like to end up marrying to your sister? I mean wtf? You are a victim of Anglo Saxon ideology

Gotra explains you your family tree and caste comes out of it.


The WRONG interpretation of caste is causing problem. Not the caste itself. So please come up witha good argument not some random blabbering of no use.

 

[Screambowl]

The gotra system was developed by the Brahmins to keep their lineage on and keep every record of the family tree.People who call it caste discrimination etc BS.. are the most illiterate uneducated and backward people on this planet. Because one does not understand what a record means and what family lineage is and how important it is. This is highly advance system

Anglo saxons want to destroy our lineage through their intellectual religious subversion.

As a Rigvedic term, gotra simply means "cow pen" or "herd of cows".[2] The specific meaning "family, lineage kin" (as it were "herd within an enclosure") is relatively more recent, first recorded around the mid-1st millennium BCE (e.g., Chandogya Upanishad).

These "lineages" as they developed among the Brahmins of that time meant patrilineal descent. The Brahmanic system was later adopted by other communities, such as theKshatriyas and Vaishyas

 

[garg_bharat]

The gotra system was developed by the Brahmins to keep their lineage on and keep every record of the family tree.People who call it caste discrimination etc BS.. are the most illiterate uneducated and backward people on this planet. Because one does not understand what a record means and what family lineage is and how important it is. This is highly advance system

Anglo saxons want to destroy our lineage through their intellectual religious subversion.

As a Rigvedic term, gotra simply means "cow pen" or "herd of cows".[2] The specific meaning "family, lineage kin" (as it were "herd within an enclosure") is relatively more recent, first recorded around the mid-1st millennium BCE (e.g., Chandogya Upanishad).

These "lineages" as they developed among the Brahmins of that time meant patrilineal descent. The Brahmanic system was later adopted by other communities, such as theKshatriyas and Vaishyas

You keep on repeating same statements without offering any evidence.

There are many reason why I say what I say, and I can prove it as well.

Kaliyuga has spoiled people of Bharat including so called brahmin. Nobody is following dharm.

The gotra is meaningless and I again ask you to come up with evidence within Veda and shasstra.

 

[Screambowl]

You keep on repeating same statements without offering any evidence.

There are many reason why I say what I say, and I can prove it as well.

Kaliyuga has spoiled people of Bharat including so called brahmin. Nobody is following dharm.

The gotra is meaningless and I again ask you to come up with evidence within Veda and shasstra.

I have already mentioned about Rig Veda and Chandogya Upanishad. I feel you have not read it correctly.


If a group of people want to keep their ancestral records. What is your problem? You cannot dictate them or force them of not doing it. It is rather a good practice. Brahmins do not marry in same Gotra of Mother's side. Same Gotra means coming from same family tree.

Today you will destroy the records, tomorrow people like you will question of there was nothing as Gotra, as there is no proof now. You think we are stupid enough? LOL

 

[garg_bharat]

I have already mentioned about Rig Veda and Chandogya Upanishad. I feel you have not read it correctly.


If a group of people want to keep their ancestral records. What is your problem? You cannot dictate them or force them of not doing it. It is rather a good practice. Brahmins do not marry in same Gotra of Mother's side. Same Gotra means coming from same family tree.

Today you will destroy the records, tomorrow people like you will question of there was nothing as Gotra, as there is no proof now. You think we are stupid enough? LOL

Give me quotes from Veda and Chandogya Upanishad.

Issue is not family name, issue is far deeper than that.

Issue is ignorance of those who claim to be educated.

 

[Screambowl]

Give me quotes from Veda and Chandogya Upanishad.

Issue is not family name, issue is far deeper than that.

Issue is ignorance of those who claim to be educated.

read here.... complete....
the famous satyakamal Jabla story is in this upanishad..
https://books.google.de/books?id=iVfRAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT26&lpg=PT26&dq=chandogya+upanishad+gotra&source=bl&ots=XaeAq_JyzF&sig=JmirsZNkFMVYDYBNGe_YZfw5suE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiO3-C6k97MAhUhJsAKHcRuBqUQ6AEIPjAF#v=onepage&q=chandogya upanishad gotra&f=false

 

[garg_bharat]

read here.... complete....
the famous satyakamal Jabla story is in this upanishad..

You give me name of printed book with publisher name.

And I hope you know that the primary authority in Vedic religion is Veda; and anything in Upanishad, Puran not tallying with Veda is not considered correct. If you have doubt about this, you are a fake Brahmin.

Most of the people who claim to be Brahmin today are fake. The biggest example are Kashmiri Pandits who are 100% fake. These are descendants of Iranian immigrants who became "Pandits" due to greed.

Anybody can take any surname. Who can stop it.

 

[Screambowl]

You give me name of printed book with publisher name.

And I hope you know that the primary authority in Vedic religion is Veda; and anything in Upanishad, Puran not tallying with Veda is not considered correct. If you have doubt about this, you are a fake Brahmin.

Most of the people who claim to be Brahmin today are fake. The biggest example are Kashmiri Pandits who are 100% fake. These are descendants of Iranian immigrants who became "Pandits" due to greed.

Anybody can take any surname. Who can stop it.

I have given you the link go through it name is also there. Don't challenge the Upanishads now.. lol

 

[garg_bharat]

I have given you the link go through it name is also there. Don't challenge the Upanishads now.. lol

Do not give me a web link. Hope you a a little shred of shame in you. You are mocking the sacred books of our religion.

It is a well known fact that several interpretations and translations are pure and complete lies.

I can challenge you anytime. Come face to face and give evidence.

I have seen a lot of blatant liars before. I have shamed many so called Pandits in person.

Go ahead and make a separate thread. Will see you there.

 

[Screambowl]

@Sakal Gharelu Ustad @Navneet Kundu @DingDong

I gave him a link where upanishads are mentioned and if he is even a hindu he would have read it first and not questioned its authenticity and authenticity of translation.

If this chap has problem with the translation. Well then I ask him to learn sanskrit and then try to call it false if it comes out to be false!!


the gravity of the problem is communist don't trust their own teachers. If I go to a sage and ask him the meaning in vedas and he explains me then it is my duty to trust him and question him. He will guide me.

I will not jump around supreme court and shout it's my right to correct information.


here is the other link by krishnanada's translation http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/chhand/Chhandogya_Upanishad.pdf

the Varna of a King and a brahmin has been explained here were a Brahmin goes to a King as a student and learn the most guarded knowledge of sacrifice performed by the Kshatriyas during yagya...

hence the Varnas are clearly mentioned.

in other Upanishad
Brihadaranyaka Upanisad 2.2.6, Gautama and Bharadvāja, Viśvāmitra and Jamadagni, Vashishtha and Kaśhyapa and Shandilya are seven sages (also known as Saptarishi); the progeny of these seven sages is declared to be gotras. This enumeration of seven primary gotras seems to have been known to Pāṇini. The offspring (apatya) of these seven are gotras and others than these are called gotrâvayava

Here is the family tree structure plan of Brahmins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravaras

 

[Screambowl]

the gravity of the problem is communist don't trust their own teachers. If I go to a sage and ask him the meaning in vedas and he explains me then it is my duty to trust him and question him. He will guide me.

I will not jump around supreme court and shout it's my right to correct information.


here is the other link by krishnanada's translation http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/chhand/Chhandogya_Upanishad.pdf

the Varna of a King and a brahmin has been explained here were a Brahmin goes to a King as a student and learn the most guarded knowledge of sacrifice performed by the Kshatriyas during yagya...
hence the Varnas are clearly mentioned.

in other Upanishad
Brihadaranyaka Upanisad 2.2.6,Gautama and Bharadvāja, Viśvāmitra and Jamadagni, Vashishtha and Kaśhyapa and Shandilya are seven sages (also known as Saptarishi); the progeny of these seven sages is declared to be gotras. This enumeration of seven primary gotras seems to have been known to Pāṇini. The offspring (apatya) of these seven are gotras and others than these are called gotrâvayava


Here is the family tree structure plan of Brahmins

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pravaras


PS: This thread is opened as a continuation of a debate w.r.t gautra system and varna which is happening here:http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...abi-picks-big-paradox-haryana-as-cadre.76406/


Thus Gautra system is mentioned in our Upanishads. Whether one agrees or not!!

 

[Ancient Indian]

Hey, what happened to my posts.
First few posts, we are seriously discussing Gotra and varna.
@pmaitra @LurkerBaba
And please rename caste to Kula.

 

[Screambowl]

Hey, what happened to my posts.
First few posts, we are seriously discussing Gotra and varna.
@pmaitra @LurkerBaba
And please rename caste to Kula.

caste is jaati , kul is parivaar (large)

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

Haven't read the entire discussion, but Gotra is basically family root that helps you keep genetically tight relations(parent side), so marriage can't happen to same gotra. In my caste(or jati or whatever), you can't marry someone having the same surname. So my surname(may be) itself is the gotra.
Whereas here gujarati brahmin has a different way to find out the gotra.

 

[Ancient Indian]

caste is jaati , kul is parivaar (large)

In my state, we say Kula for caste.

Don't know about North people.

 

[Screambowl]

In my state, we say Kula for caste.

Don't know about North people.

Kula for us is family .. kutumbh ... but then people of similar varna

 

[Ancient Indian]

Kula for us is family .. kutumbh ... but then people of similar varna

If you go for detailed definition, kula and jathi are different terms.
I consider our south Indian versions as reliable sources. North got corrupted due to various invasions and what not.

 

[Bharat Ek Khoj]

In my state, we say Kula for caste.

Don't know about North people.

In my language jati = caste. Unchi jati - higher caste, nichi jati - lower caste.
Kula belongs to family. Kula is also mentioned in Bhagwad geeta and not as a caste.