Comparative detail of cost factor of the 6 MMRCA contenders

[luckyy]

even if there is a mmrca thread exist to talk about ....

but to be more specific only on the cost front , it will be relevent to start a new thread , as the stage of opening the commercial bid is coming next , which will be deciding the winner as to my view all 6 will pass the trail phase
and MoD won't like to make anybody unhappy by called that they have FAILED in trails......

i invites people to post information on cost of aircraft , cost of subsystems , maintanence , flying/hour ect of
the 6 contenders in mmrca , with url link to source of information.

thank you..

 

[luckyy]

F-16
By Our Correspondent WASHINGTON, April 22: Pakistan has decided to halve the number of F-16 fighter jets it's buying from the United States due to financial constraints, according to some diplomatic sources.

Pakistan had earlier agreed to buy 36 of these aircraft at a total cost of $5.1 billion, which included associated weapons, spares and upgrading of an earlier fleet purchased in the 1980s.

The proposed fleet of 36 new F-16 Block 50/52 planes was to cost Pakistan $3 billion while it was required to pay additional $650 million for weapons.

The decision to reduce the order by half would also halve the cost of buying new F-16s and that of the weapons associated with them.

Pakistan, however, will still have to spend $1.3 billion on mid-life update and modification of the F-16A/B aircraft purchased earlier. Engine modifications and purchasing some new equipment for the old fleet will cost Pakistan additional $151 million.The sources said the new aircraft will be fully equipped with weapons and facilities that come with an F-16 Block 50/52 aircraft. The planes will be capable of carrying nuclear and non-nuclear weapons.

The United States will, however, have the right to conduct frequent inspections and inventory checking.

"The media stories that new aircraft will not have the facility to carry a nuclear weapon do not make sense," said a defence expert. He pointed out that the French Mirage aircraft now with PAF did not have such facilities when purchased. Pakistanis, however, modified the aircraft to make them nuclear capable.

Pakistan's request for new planes and for the modification for its earlier fleet was put on hold after the October 2005 earthquake.


http://www.dawn.com/2008/04/23/top8.htm

Pakistan to buy only 18 F-16s

The proposed fleet of 36 new F-16 Block 50/52 planes was to cost Pakistan $3 billion while it was required to pay additional $650 million for weapons.

The decision to reduce the order by half would also halve the cost of buying new F-16s and that of the weapons associated with them.

that roughly traslate into 100ml$/plane including weapons....

the aircraft itself cost aound 82ml$.....

the cost is seem to be not including trainning and infrastructure as this already exist in pakistan .....

 

[luckyy]

Eurofighter
www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE66J0S020100720

Italy to axe Eurofighter orders

We have decided to cut 25 Eurofighters with a saving of 2 billion euros," Italian defence minister Ignazio la Russa told reporters at the air show in southern England.

that rougly traslate into 95ml$/plane ..

 

[luckyy]

F-16
(Reuters) - Egypt clinched a deal with the U.S government last week to buy 20 advanced Lockheed Martin Corp F-16C/D fighter aircraft valued at $1.6 billion, the U.S. Defense Department said Tuesday.

The first of the new batch, known as block 50/52, are expected to be delivered in early 2012, a spokesman for the Defense Security Cooperation Agency said.

The Pentagon told Congress in October that Egypt was seeking as many as 24 F-16C/D block 50/52 models. It said at the time the deal could be worth $3.2 billion, including base construction, support equipment and other hardware and services.

The U.S.-Egyptian agreement was signed Dec. 23 and covered strictly the F-16s, associated equipment and logistical support, said Paul Ebner, the spokesman.

The rest of the possible arms package for Egypt was still subject to negotiations, he said.

The Egyptian embassy did not immediately return a call seeking comment on the reason for buying 20 F-16s rather than the 24 Cairo originally had requested.

George Standridge, Lockheed Aeronautics' vice president for business development, said in a telephone interview that Lockheed now awaits a U.S. government contract for the addition to Egypt's existing F-16 fleet.

Former President George W. Bush's administration is widely reported to have withheld updated F-16s and certain other advanced weapons because of Egypt's human rights record and democracy issues, as well as out of concern for maintaining Israel's qualitative military edge.

Egypt has been flying the F-16 since 1982. It has received 220 of them, after decades of chiefly using military hardware built by the former Soviet Union.

The new agreement marks the 53rd time an F-16 customer has returned for a new batch, said Joe Stout, a Lockheed spokesman.

Last week, Lockheed was awarded an $841.8 million contract to continue building 24 new F-16C/D Block 52 fighters for Morocco, the 25th nation to buy the F-16, the world's most widely flown fighter.

The administration of President Barack Obama told Congress in October that the F-16 sale would greatly enhance Egypt's "interoperability" with U.S. forces.

This would make it a more valuable partner in the Middle East as well as support Egypt's own self-defense needs, the security cooperation agency said

http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-45045820091229

Egypt agrees to buy up to 24 US F-16 fighters

The Pentagon told Congress in October that Egypt was seeking as many as 24 F-16C/D block 50/52 models. It said at the time the deal could be worth $3.2 billion, including base construction, support equipment and other hardware and services.

means 134ml$/plane including everything .....point to note here that Egypt already operates over 200 F-16 , ..

 

[Yusuf]

you mean to say the eurofighter is cheaper than the F 16s?? Not at all mate. Lots of things will go into the selection of the MMRCA winner and guess what, price is going to be the last thing on the minds of both the IAF and the GoI.

 

[Yusuf]

Will keep this thread if there is a meaningful discussion on the cost factor as lucky has proposed. If not i will close or merge with the existing thread.

 

[luckyy]

you mean to say the eurofighter is cheaper than the F 16s?? Not at all mate. Lots of things will go into the selection of the MMRCA winner and guess what, price is going to be the last thing on the minds of both the IAF and the GoI.

even i find it surprising that F-16 cost aound 100ml$ , but we have to trust the reuters ,

moreover IAF & GOI have to pay about 3-5ml$ more for F-16 IN varient contesting in mmrca to UAE as they had funded the entire 3bn$
for the resurch and development of this varient...

 

[Yusuf]

You have not factored all the cost for the EF. 95 mills is just the flyaway cost. For the F-16s you have calculated on the basis of the entire purchase. Paks have ordered weapons for a war with India and not left it for tomorrow lest they get sanctioned.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

How are lifecycle costs factored into the overall costs???

 

[luckyy]

How are lifecycle costs factored into the overall costs???

lifecycle cost includes :
1) fuel cost that fighter burn every hour of flying ,
2) under maintanence cost , cost of the components that need to changed periodically , few components actually has to changed after every single flight..
3) every aircraft goes for a engine change 3-4 times in it's life cycle..

 

[LETHALFORCE]

lifecycle cost includes :
1) fuel cost that fighter burn every hour of flying ,
2) under maintanence cost , cost of the components that need to changed periodically , few components actually has to changed after every single flight..
3) every aircraft goes for a engine change 3-4 times in it's life cycle..

One more cost can be added - the political costs if relations with the seller deteriorate making some planes useless.

 

[luckyy]

Rafale
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE60B1EH20100112

[quore]
The Rafale, which analysts estimate could cost upwards of $100 million, is at a price disadvantage when compared with rival planes such as the Swedish-made Saab (SAABb.ST) Gripen NG, which is seen as cheaper by some 30 to 50 percent.

Brazil wants 36 jets ,The deal could initially be worth more than $4 billion....

A spokesman for Dassault , added price was only one of the factors involved in choosing combat aircraft, highlighting technology transfer, strategic partnerships and operational considerations.

He would not disclose the offer price of the Rafale.

[/quote]
Dassault has not dosclose the price , it is only speculative by brazilian media that it cost between r 100ml$ to 110ml$

 

[luckyy]

You have not factored all the cost for the EF. 95 mills is just the flyaway cost. For the F-16s you have calculated on the basis of the entire purchase. Paks have ordered weapons for a war with India and not left it for tomorrow lest they get sanctioned.

what is more intresting to note is that in the final deals F-16 is no cheaper then eurofighter or rafale..
but we have to fectorin the cost of the advance radar into the price of F-16 which is still not available with eurofighter...
also not many countries are buying F-16 at this price any more ., pakistan buy it as a adjustment to militry aid money which they get from US...

 

[luckyy]

F18SH
Austraila pay 4.6bn usd for 24 f-18...
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSSYD23056620070306

a wooping 191ml$/plane....that includes multi years service and maintanence contrect.....

 

[luckyy]

One more cost can be added - the political costs if relations with the seller deteriorate making some planes useless.

it direct only to US ...but it seen highly unlikely that either f-16 or f-18 would be selected....not because of political reason but on cost front they are very expensive too , .....

 

[luckyy]

DARE, BEL to jointly build electronic warfare systems for Sukhoi, MiG29

with (the) huge cost of foreign technology and not much help available in EW (electronic warfare), indigenous technology development is the obvious and only alternative.
The challenge lies in developing it in-house," Air Chief Marshal P.V. Naik said at a conference in Bangalore last week.

http://idrw.org/?p=2620

nice to see somebody still serious about cost.

 

[luckyy]

MIG-35
$1.2bn Indian Navy contract for 29 additional MiG-29Ks
http://www.domain-b.com/aero/mil_avi/mil_aircraft/20100118_indian_navy_oneView.html

that roughly traslate into 41ml/plane

mig-29k is a naval varient and naval varients are costlier then the air force varients .....

the price of MIG-35 would be less then $41ml....

 

[Armand2REP]

Eurofighter
www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE66J0S020100720

that rougly traslate into 95ml$/plane ..

That is just how much they will save, not the total cost. You have to figure in long-lead contracts already paid for and incurred penalties.

 

[Armand2REP]

Dassault has not dosclose the price , it is only speculative by brazilian media that it cost between r 100ml$ to 110ml$

We already know the price from Brasil and UAE, it is in the $70-80 million range.

 

[luckyy]

That is just how much they will save, not the total cost. You have to figure in long-lead contracts already paid for and incurred penalties.

there is a another set of information which also states that eurofighter cost near to this figure only ..
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLV57899220090731
july 2009 , four-nation placed 9.1 billion euro deal for 112 planes ...

euro is now much cheaper then in 2009..

today 1 euro =1.29 $

9.1 billion euro = 11.9 bn $

roughly 100ml$/plane....