Combat Aircraft technology and Evolution

gadeshi

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F35 is being co-developed it's primary buyers are making components and what not . It would be pretty difficult to lie about that one with so many stakeholders. Many faults are already in public debate.
This is a part of advertisement as well :)
They want to show dedication to F-16 success model :)
Americans have granted limited access to development assets to Britain only and Israel has observer status.
All the others make some non-critical components and do screwdriver assembly without access to development assets in any mean.
 

StealthFlanker

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1 - If you have stuck with generally known engineering solution, use another. That way you will not violate physics laws but will use them for your goals. NIIP uses ionospheric reflection to make its radars have off-boresight capabilities.
1- off boresight has nothing to do with ionospheric reflection , you are meant to say over horizon capability
2- for your radar wave to reflect off the ionosphere , and getting over horizon capability , you need very very low frequency generally between 10-20 MHz , ways lower than what S-400 use , even NEBO SVU only use VHF which is still around 30 MHz-300 Mhz

3- Sky wave radar ( ionosphere reflection radar ) have a massive blind area right in front of its main lobe, and this blind area can be as big as 500-600 km



2 - LM has been many times caught on let's say, hypertrophated advertisement which has not confirmed further while Russians just disclose data, good or bad whatever. .
Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk
This is just your bias opinion , i see LM disclosed bad data related to their yet fighter all the time while i havent seen the Russian said a bad word about their sukhoi
 

charlie

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Do you have any source for this claim?
why don't you search for mig 31 documentry in youtube, you will increase your knowledge by watching a few of them.

In case you are still not able to find it then let me know. I will search it for you.
 

Defcon 1

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why don't you search for mig 31 documentry in youtube, you will increase your knowledge by watching a few of them.

In case you are still not able to find it then let me know. I will search it for you.
Hi, Since English is not my first language, I have difficulty understanding English documentaries. It would be better if you could give me a link to a written document.
 

charlie

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Hi, Since English is not my first language, I have difficulty understanding English documentaries. It would be better if you could give me a link to a written document.
watch from 16 min to understand the Zaslon radar and the data link as well as how the target was selected and assigned by the lead Mig 31.


If you still not satisfied then let's have discussion in Mig 31 Thread.
 
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Defcon 1

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watch from 16 min to understand the Zaslon radar and the data link as well as how the target was selected and assigned by the lead Mig 31.


If you still not satisfied then let's have discussion in Mig 31 Thread.
All it says is that the lead aircraft decides on the target and allots them to all the aircraft in the group. Where does it say anything about third party targeting? Communicating and designating targets is not the same third party targeting. MKIs also work in the similar fashion.
 

charlie

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All it says is that the lead aircraft decides on the target and allots them to all the aircraft in the group. Where does it say anything about third party targeting? Communicating and designating targets is not the same third party targeting. MKIs also work in the similar fashion.
The MiG-31 was equipped with RK-RLDN and APD-518 digital secure datalinks. The RK-RLDN datalink is for communication with ground control centers. The APD-518 datalink enables a flight of four MiG-31 to automatically exchange radar-generated data within 200 km (124 mi) from each other (a group of four MiG-31 interceptors is able to control an area of air space across a total length of 800 km). It also enables other aircraft with less sophisticated avionics, such as MiG-23,25,29/Su – 15,27 to be directed to targets spotted by MiG-31 (a maximum of 4 (long-range) for each MiG-31 aircraft). Similarly complex S-300 aircraft with a group of APD-518 can: share data obtained by various radars from different directions (active or passive scanning radiation) and summarize the data. That is, the target can be detected by passively (through noise posed to protect themselves / active search radar (target)) and (or) the active simultaneously from many different directions (active search radar MiG-31). And everyone aircraft has APD-518 will have exact data, even if it is not involved in the search.

interacting with ground-based automated digital control system (ACS «Rubezh» Operating radius of 2000 km, can control multiple groups of planes), operating modes remote aiming, semi-automated actions (coordinate support), singly, and also: to direct on the target missiles launched from the other aircraft


https://thaimilitaryandasianregion....koyan-mig-31-supersonic-interceptor-aircraft/

"A unique weapons control system took care of the mission, enabling the aircraft to operate as an airborne command post (ABNCP). A flight of four MiG- 31s, the lead aircraft acting as ABNCP, could trade target information over a strip of terrain 800km (500 miles) wide. The interceptors could split multiple targets between themselves, or pass some of them on to the leader of another patrol if there was more that they could chew. All radio communication was automatically on channels protected from electronic eavesdroppers. Three MiG-31s patrolling an area could provide 360 degree coverage. Besides, a MiG31 could direct up to three of its fellow MIG-23P 'Flogger', MiG25PD, MiG-29 'Fulcrum" or SU-27 'Flanker' interceptors, obviating the need for them to use their own radars and thus reveal their position."

Page .82 from a pdf. "MiG-25 Foxbat, MiG-31 Foxhound, Russia's Defensive front line" published in 1997 by Midland Publishing limited and Stephen Thompson Associates.


I spent quite a lot of time to look for this info, as you were having hard time to understanding what they said in video, it was pretty clear but I guess for some reason you were not able to comprehend.

If you still have are not satisfied, then I give up and you were right the USAF was the first.
 
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airtel

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https://sputniknews.com/military/201512301032493933-russia-aviation-pak-fa-radar/



Russian PAK FA to be Equipped With Futuristic Photonic Radar
© Flickr/ Mario Sainz Martínez
Military & Intelligence
14:41 30.12.2015(updated 16:30 30.12.2015) Get short URL
1419423846
Russia’s fifth-generation fighter PAK FA (T-50) may be equipped with an advanced radar which is currently being developed by a Russian corporation.

© Sputnik/ Alexey Filippov
Russian T-50 PAK-FA Jet Flight Tests Near Completion
The radar will be based on Radio-Optical Phased Arrays (ROFAR), explained the adviser of the first deputy general director of concern Radio-Electronic Technology (KRET) Vladimir Mikheev.
KRET is a part of Russia’s Rostec corporation, it developed the electronic systems for the aircraft.

The future radar will be based on the photonic technology that greatly expands the possibilities of communication and radar as their weight will be decreased by more than half and the resolution will increase tenfold.

The ultra-wideband ROFAR signal allows one to virtually get a TV picture on a radar range. Radio photonic technology, in particular, will enhance the capabilities of the latest generation of Russian airplanes and helicopters.

“After our work on ROFAR, a list of aircrafts both manned and unmanned will be presented with an offer to be equipped with the radar based on radio-optical phased arrays. I think that the PAK FA will also be on this list and there will be specific proposals given to it,” Mikheyev told reporters, adding that the final decision will be taken by the Department of Defense.

The developer of ROFAR, KRET has established a laboratory on radio photonics. The concern has already started to perform laboratory tests to create ROFAR. Designed to be finished in 4.5 years, the project remains on schedule, which was agreed on with the Foundation for Advanced Studies.

As was earlier reported by the Deputy CEO of KRET, Igor Nasenkov, the company intends to establish a full-scale sample of the future radar by 2018.

“The PAK FA is a fifth-generation aircraft, with a number of brand-new technologies used in its development. It is a 100 percent digital aircraft. It can provide full information support to the pilot. The aircraft is equipped with versatile antenna systems built in its covering,” Nasenkov said during the Dubai Airshow 2015.


© Sputnik/
PAK FA (Advanced Tactical Air Sistem) T-50
 

lcafanboy

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ROFAR= Radio Optical Phase Array Radar.......... But really how it would work is just a myth for me till now. Hope @gadeshi or @StealthFlanker could shed some light on it.

But till now this has not yet been designed I think.
It actually create images of what it has detected. Meaning in normal radar only a blip or dot is seen and you have to decide about the threat by verifying it by opening radio channels if its friendly or if you are sure it enemy the you may decide to shoot down a doubtful affair. But a ROFAR radar creates images like if its F16 the entire plane is visible or building everything it sees. Russians (KRET) are leaders here and are on the verge of producing.
 

Chinmoy

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It actually create images of what it has detected. Meaning in normal radar only a blip or dot is seen and you have to decide about the threat by verifying it by opening radio channels if its friendly or if you are sure it enemy the you may decide to shoot down a doubtful affair. But a ROFAR radar creates images like if its F16 the entire plane is visible or building everything it sees. Russians (KRET) are leaders here and are on the verge of producing.
I got the point of how it works, but what is out of my understanding is how its going to create image. Its more of PAO or Phased Array Optics where light waves are used rather then Radio waves like in case of RADAR.
Now what I don't get is. how to do the modulation of optical waves in visible spectrum with Radio waves?
 

StealthFlanker

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ROFAR= Radio Optical Phase Array Radar.......... But really how it would work is just a myth for me till now. Hope @gadeshi or @StealthFlanker could shed some light on it.

But till now this has not yet been designed I think.
There are various definition for a "photonic radar" so it can be very confusing for most people

The first is Phased array radar where ferrite or bit phase shifters are replaced with Optic fiber, thus making use of "True time delay" principle. Called as Photonics true time delay. The advantage is that it removes bottleneck of operational bandwidth of active array radar. (Phase shifters do limit radar operational frequency due to phase mismatch in the phase shifter element)

This technique is so far limited by difficulties of implementation as hundreds of precisely matched fiber optic threads must be manufactured for each elements.

One example of a brute force approach:


The second definition of Photonic radar is the one that use photon entanglement principles ( or they also call it a quantum radar ), this one is still mostly in theoretical stage as far as i know

The third definition of photonic radar is a kind of radar where they used photonic method to generate RF signal. For current radar , transceivers can only generate digital signals at frequencies of 2 GHz or lower To get the higher frequencies needed for better resolution, those signals have to be upconverted by other electronics.When you do that you got a bit noise ( called internal noise of the system ) which will affect your detection range ..etc. For this kind of radar , they select two optical resonant frequencies (modes) in a mode-locked laser and fired it at a photodiode sensor. The electrical output from the sensor is an RF signal that can reach up to 40 GHz without upconversion. Because there is no up convention there is little noise ( about 10 dB less than current system if i recall correctly )
 

StealthFlanker

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It actually create images of what it has detected. Meaning in normal radar only a blip or dot is seen and you have to decide about the threat by verifying it by opening radio channels if its friendly or if you are sure it enemy the you may decide to shoot down a doubtful affair. But a ROFAR radar creates images like if its F16 the entire plane is visible or building everything it sees. Russians (KRET) are leaders here and are on the verge of producing.
That is wrong .A normal radar can easily create image of what they detect as long as you either a big enough gain ( aka small enough beamwidth ) or you used a time-based solution called synthetic aperture:
Here are some image created by SAR:

 

Chinmoy

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There are various definition for a "photonic radar" so it can be very confusing for most people

The first is Phased array radar where ferrite or bit phase shifters are replaced with Optic fiber, thus making use of "True time delay" principle. Called as Photonics true time delay. The advantage is that it removes bottleneck of operational bandwidth of active array radar. (Phase shifters do limit radar operational frequency due to phase mismatch in the phase shifter element)

This technique is so far limited by difficulties of implementation as hundreds of precisely matched fiber optic threads must be manufactured for each elements.

One example of a brute force approach:


The second definition of Photonic radar is the one that use photon entanglement principles ( or they also call it a quantum radar ), this one is still mostly in theoretical stage as far as i know

The third definition of photonic radar is a kind of radar where they used photonic method to generate RF signal. For current radar , transceivers can only generate digital signals at frequencies of 2 GHz or lower To get the higher frequencies needed for better resolution, those signals have to be upconverted by other electronics.When you do that you got a bit noise ( called internal noise of the system ) which will affect your detection range ..etc. For this kind of radar , they select two optical resonant frequencies (modes) in a mode-locked laser and fired it at a photodiode sensor. The electrical output from the sensor is an RF signal that can reach up to 40 GHz without upconversion. Because there is no up convention there is little noise ( about 10 dB less than current system if i recall correctly )
Thanks a lot. But here too we are basically working with RF signal. Does the ADC converts the received RF frequencies back into optical output in this case?
 

lcafanboy

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Does France or Israel have any GaN based Airborne AESA radar ??

@BON PLAN
French are upgrading RBE2 to GaN by 2018 and India will get Rafales with GaN RBE2 AESA which Rafale F3R version. India has negotiated for the latest version of Rafale (due to delay in MMRCA deal and all the money saved from kickbacks to khangress and yet lower price)to avoid MLU, now MLU for Rafale will come only post 2030.
 

BON PLAN

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Does France or Israel have any GaN based Airborne AESA radar ??

@BON PLAN
I don't know if GaN RBE2 AESA will be induced for F3R. But it's on track for this standart or the next one.

What I'm sure is that a developpment program called "INCAS" is on course (and maybe finished) for GaN antenna, and two another ones called CARAA and MELBAA, using INCAS, are always launched. This 2 programs for developping air to ground capacity and multi antennas capacity (for a futur 3 antennas 270° view Rafale ???)
 

gadeshi

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ASK-62 multi-purpose light amphybia:
And light multi-purpose skimmers:
 

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