Civil war in Ukraine

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The enlightened

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This one, why? Have you read the posts over the past couple of days?
No, the other British forum, which pmaitra keeps referring.
I was advised not to mention any other forum when being critical of it. All I can tell you is that it is a potty-mouth forum, and being a British forum, they deleted a thread about the Mars Orbiter Mission. I suspect it was deleted because there was not a single vulgarity in the OP. If you cannot manage skid row language, you won't fit in that forum. :cool3:
Awesome. I'll fit right in. Name please.
 

pmaitra

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@Scalieback
Don't listen to him. "Saxon" is a good machine.
Don't worry. @Scalieback will support the Saxon no matter what. It is British after all. He would even support a dead donkey over a galloping horse, if the donkey were a Brit donkey, and the horse not Brit.

Anyway, your standards of "good" are fairly low.


So you call this good?

Even a Moskvitch puts the Saxon to shame.

 

Akim

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Anyway, your standards of "good" are fairly low.


So you call this good?
Based on this video, you deduce that the vehicle is bad? For those who didn't release your hand brake, repeat a second time: It is not in use, as the BTR or BRDM. This is a machine control. His large troop compartment is equipped with electronics.

 

pmaitra

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Based on this video, you deduce that the vehicle is bad? For those who didn't release your hand brake, repeat a second time: It is not in use, as the BTR or BRDM. This is a machine control. His large troop compartment is equipped with electronics.

Ok, @Akim, let's say that driver forgot to release the hand brake, even then, looks like this contraption will flip over at the slightest nudge. If the user is satisfied, then let them use it. For me, this is a wheeled coffin. I'd stay away from it.

Being familiar with UralAZ, KamAZ, KrAZ, etc., how on earth can you even like this thing? Really bizarre!
 

Akim

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Ok, @Akim, let's say that driver forgot to release the hand brake, even then, looks like this contraption will flip over at the slightest nudge. If the user is satisfied, then let them use it. For me, this is a wheeled coffin. I'd stay away from it.

Being familiar with UralAZ, KamAZ, KrAZ, etc., how on earth can you even like this thing? Really bizarre!
You didn't understand the expression. The man who does not understand the first time, by analogy called the man who would not let your Parking brake and mental slowing. How can you draw conclusions on the Russian-Ukrainian war, not understanding the mentality of people? The situation may be different. Shit happens.


 

pmaitra

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You didn't understand the expression. The man who does not understand the first time, by analogy called the man who would not let your Parking brake and mental slowing. How can you draw conclusions on the Russian-Ukrainian war, not understanding the mentality of people? The situation may be different. Shit happens.


Accidents do happen, but these pictures you have posted prove nothing. None of these trucks, Ural or ZiL would overturn if subjected to the same dynamic forces when those Saxons overturned.

That these (Ural/ZiL) overturned means they were subjected to several times more duress than those Saxons.

So, please release the parking brake on your mind. See, now I understood your "expression." :biggrin2:
 

Akim

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Accidents do happen, but these pictures you have posted prove nothing. None of these trucks, Ural or ZiL would overturn if subjected to the same dynamic forces when those Saxons overturned.

That these (Ural/ZiL) overturned means they were subjected to several times more duress than those Saxons.

So, please release the parking brake on your mind. See, now I understood your "expression." :biggrin2:
Very good.
The problem is not only in sustainability. When in the second half of the 80-ies began to appear UJSSR masse in German and Japanese cars, they are also faced with the problem of exploitation.
 

pmaitra

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Very good.
The problem is not only in sustainability. When in the second half of the 80-ies began to appear UJSSR masse in German and Japanese cars, they are also faced with the problem of exploitation.
Now you are going in a philosophical direction. You might as well be right.

Let me come back to these Saxons and present my observations:

  • These Saxons were supplied to Ukraine. There were reports that some oligarch in Ukraine imported these and got kickbacks. There were also reports that some of these are bought with taxpayer's money but were sold off and the money pocketed by some oligarchs. The Brits were more than happy to offload their junk on the Ukrainians.
  • The Ukrainians tried to train their crew to operate the Saxon alongside the BRDM, but as the video suggests, they realized that these Saxons were incompetent. Now, on realizing that these Saxons are pretty much useless, they are, as you claim, not going to use the Saxons alongside BTR or BRDM.
  • You claim that these are meant to house electronics and for machine control. I think a UAZ-452 would do fine. Heck, even a regular truck can be modified to work as a electronics or machine control vehicle. I see no reason to buy these contraptions as I see they offer no benefit over whatever existing vehicles Ukraine has.
  • Looking at these contraptions, it is obvious it has weak armour, and is a worse alternative to what Ukraine already has. It is also obvious that these have a very high centre of gravity, and will probably overturn if there is a snowstorm, and it did overturn in that road accident, without even trying to go off-road. Finally, we see this vehicle is under-powered, and can't even climb a mild bump, so it is no good for off-roading purposes.
 

Akim

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Now you are going in a philosophical direction. You might as well be right.

Let me come back to these Saxons and present my observations:

  • These Saxons were supplied to Ukraine. There were reports that some oligarch in Ukraine imported these and got kickbacks. There were also reports that some of these are bought with taxpayer's money but were sold off and the money pocketed by some oligarchs. The Brits were more than happy to offload their junk on the Ukrainians.
  • The Ukrainians tried to train their crew to operate the Saxon alongside the BRDM, but as the video suggests, they realized that these Saxons were incompetent. Now, on realizing that these Saxons are pretty much useless, they are, as you claim, not going to use the Saxons alongside BTR or BRDM.
  • You claim that these are meant to house electronics and for machine control. I think a UAZ-452 would do fine. Heck, even a regular truck can be modified to work as a electronics or machine control vehicle. I see no reason to buy these contraptions as I see they offer no benefit over whatever existing vehicles Ukraine has.
  • Looking at these contraptions, it is obvious it has weak armour, and is a worse alternative to what Ukraine already has. It is also obvious that these have a very high centre of gravity, and will probably overturn if there is a snowstorm, and it did overturn in that road accident, without even trying to go off-road. Finally, we see this vehicle is under-powered, and can't even climb a mild bump, so it is no good for off-roading purposes.
You saw it on video? "Saxon" is a good AV, reliable engine and smooth movement.
Who made a fortune on this? The cost of one APC "Saxon" -55 thousand dollars. The cost of modification GAZ-66 in assault car "Crocodile" - 45 thousand dollars + GAZ-66.
 

Akim

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I think the Americans can learn a great deal about current Soviet Russian ELINT and SIGINT. As with all INT collection, it's collection, analysis and dissemination.

Countering depends on what you are trying to counter, be it broad spectrum jamming onwards. If you don't have frequency hopping and encrypted radios it can be difficult

Edited as have fat thumbs ;-)
Now comes the "drone war" the Russian and the Ukrainian side is trying to seize control of the UAV. At the beginning of the war the Ukrainian battalions used a UAV that you can buy in the supermarket or assembled by radio Amateurs. The separatists it no had a hardware interception. Since last August on the territory of Donbass entered the Russian army, which has similar equipment. The equipment allows to intercept even strike UAV, as it was in Iran. After that, the Ukrainian army began to receive UAVs with military factories, with the secure channels that it is able to intercept Russian EW system. However, they are still have very little.
 

Akim

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Photo from Japan
........................................................
 

apple

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Anyone who believes Putin's agitprop and thinks the BBC is anything other than a liberal mouthpiece

Like referencing L4's as only made in India until told by me that they weren't and referencing it? Crack on. You've no idea. Just a usual internet bully

Oh dear, country music as well. You're turning into the hated satan.
He, and some of the other blunt tools on the site have been circle jerking each other competing over who can make the more ridiculous claim about the "Western Media". Not only are the BBC and The New York Times, apparently, the official mouthpiece of the Conservative/ Republican party, The Guardian is , most laughably, is a British ultra nationalist publication.

You were talking Bren guns with Pmaitra? I once had a multi page discussion with him, a moderator of a defence forum, repeatedly claiming automatic small arms are smoothbore.

And you referring to Blake Shelton as "country music". He's got a big hat and as is from some backwoods, sheep loving, district in Pmaitra's neck of the woods, but comparing him to Johnny Cash, etc... is a crime against English language culture

You saw it on video? "Saxon" is a good AV, reliable engine and smooth movement.
Who made a fortune on this? The cost of one APC "Saxon" -55 thousand dollars. The cost of modification GAZ-66 in assault car "Crocodile" - 45 thousand dollars + GAZ-66.
Don't bother talking to Pmaitra about vehicles. Lada Riva's are, in his opinion, superior to BMW's and some Indian copy of a Soviet era jeep are to quote him "just like a hummer". Actually, weren't you involved in the hummer discussion?

Saxon's are what they are. Getting proper, modern, armoured vehicles would cost a lot, lot, lot more than 50 thousand per unit.
 

Scalieback

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He, and some of the other blunt tools on the site have been circle jerking each other competing over who can make the more ridiculous claim about the "Western Media". Not only are the BBC and The New York Times, apparently, the official mouthpiece of the Conservative/ Republican party, The Guardian is , most laughably, is a British ultra nationalist publication.
I know, laughable isn't it

You were talking Bren guns with Pmaitra? I once had a multi page discussion with him, a moderator of a defence forum, repeatedly claiming automatic small arms are smoothbore.
Really? That's frankly a joke.

To be fair to him he didn't realise the Brits converted Brens to L4's long before the Indians did

And you referring to Blake Shelton as "country music". He's got a big hat and as is from some backwoods, sheep loving, district in Pmaitra's neck of the woods, but comparing him to Johnny Cash, etc... is a crime against English language culture
Sorry, never heard his music before and Wiki had him in that category. Having done exercises and ops with the Anericans I really don't like country music

Don't bother talking to Pmaitra about vehicles. Lada Riva's are, in his opinion, superior to BMW's and some Indian copy of a Soviet era jeep are to quote him "just like a hummer". Actually, weren't you involved in the hummer discussion?
I know, I don't recall the Humvee discussion tbh. I drive one in the 'States not long after they first came out and again in Afg about 06/07

Saxon's are what they are. Getting proper, modern, armoured vehicles would cost a lot, lot, lot more than 50 thousand per unit.
I'm glad you like them. They're okay for what they were designed for IMO and from what I've heard. Never driven one, so I don't have a great deal of experience on them
 

Scalieback

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Now comes the "drone war" the Russian and the Ukrainian side is trying to seize control of the UAV. At the beginning of the war the Ukrainian battalions used a UAV that you can buy in the supermarket or assembled by radio Amateurs. The separatists it no had a hardware interception. Since last August on the territory of Donbass entered the Russian army, which has similar equipment. The equipment allows to intercept even strike UAV, as it was in Iran. After that, the Ukrainian army began to receive UAVs with military factories, with the secure channels that it is able to intercept Russian EW system. However, they are still have very little.
Interesting times ahead. I wish you all luck.

I do know of one Brit who will be emigrating there and joining the Reserves. Look after him :)
 

Scalieback

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No, the other British forum, which pmaitra keeps referring.

Awesome. I'll fit right in. Name please.
You may do :) Type Arrse into Google.

I'll give you a heads up on it if you like, without the rabid anti Brit bias that is.

It is very much caveat emptor though. After Pmaitra, Ray and Yusuf left a while ago, there's only been a couple of Indians on it.

Might be worth joining, looking around and PM'ing Earth and Matter therein just so you get an Indian perspective as well. Not sure if Earth is still on it but Matter is.

Let me know if you want my take on it. It may be a while though as responding by phone isn't the best
 
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