Civil war in Ukraine

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pmaitra

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How did I know you'd say that :) A pig headedness refusal to look at facts
How do you define "pig-headedness?" Anyone who doesn't buy your fantasies?

Yeah, that's right good, let the anger flow through you. Edited to add:
TL; DR.
You asked me to look it up. I don't need to
I asked you to look it up so that you can fathom the differences. The intent was not to have you parrot it here.
Source on shoot downs prior to the actual shoot down?
Source of all of the conspiracy theories that you have been presenting here as "facts."

"Reliable" sources such as BBC and NYT do not count.
The fact remains 298 innocents died because of Vlad the Small megalomania. Whoever did it.
The fact remains that thousands of Russians, and pro-Russia Ukrainians have been slaughtered by the "European Values" loving Ukrops.

Once the truth is revealed, it migh as well turn out the Ukrops themselves shot down the airplane. Pray tell me why was the flight path diverted by Ukrop authorities prior to the crash?
As I said, the Russians have already admitted it was likely a Buk. Your briefings not up to date? I'm a juvenile? So says the 'voice of Russia.'
admittedly (saw that before you edited your post)
undoubtedly
:blah:
No, I was watching the news at the time. Went on the web for more info and saw lots.
At that time? Was it Saturday night?
Only Russian 'propaganda dogs' have pushed out conspiracy theories.
I'd prefer propaganda from Russian dogs than propaganda from the cowardly NATO mice.
Yes you do, you believe conspiracy theories about 'stealth SU25's being able to reach, chase, fire missiles and rake with cannon fire a 777
Nope. Just asking you to substantiate your unsupported claims.

Accusing others of believing in conspiracy theories is no substitute for failure to back up claims.
It is and the report will be published in due course.
Due course, yeah right.

For men may come and men may go, but Scalie will continue to make unsupported claims forever.
Mine are based on fact and high probability of the truth. Yours are based on kremlin lies
Nope. You just think your claims are facts. That hardly makes them facts.
As I said, no change
Deal with it.



Cabana's not a Mod. FAIL
Or maybe it was someone else, and I might be confusing the handles, but granted the possibility I might have mistook the name, I stand by my claims.
Standards are abysmal, like a Mod deleting threads he doesn't like?
Well, for someone who is used to "that" forum, he should expect every single post to be deleted if those standards are transported here.
You and your Americanisms. Be careful, the land of the free may take you yet.
You are running out of arguments, aren't you?
Did he? He designed various firearms, very good ones. Did he know more about firearms or did he have a specialism in a very small area?
Just showing you, talk about subjects where you have expertise on.

I have driven BMWs, but I wouldn't argue with one who designed it. To do so would be stupid.
Hallelujah. Praise the lord, for he has seen the light!
Aight'!
So you admit to being a Nazi then?
Nope.

I supported Indian freedom fighters taking the help of Hitler to fight against a regime worse than that of Hitler, i.e., the British Empire.

You did a good job of twisting that.

Is it just you, or is dishonesty a British trait?

Lost on me, more Americanism? Anyway, posted.
Blake Shelton's lyrics, but never mind, you stick to your Saturday night unfunny jokes.
It means your propaganda tool has been reprted for being a propaganda tool.
I see a lot of claims of rebuttal. I just don't see any rebuttal.
Not really, I don't debate like a five year old
That's still better than debating like a Triceratops, innit?
Roger, seen.
Ma' man!
No, that's what came out very shortly afterwards. Only needs some voice recognition software though doesn't it?
I take it you admit you did not see him post that. Thanks.
What I saw was them cheering in the background (thinking another AN26 was hit and then looking and seeing things like seats and bodies falling out of the sky), now removed. All posted on social media at the time.
You are being imaginative. There was no cheering whatsoever. There is no evidence that that alleged cheering was from the moment the MH-17 was shot down. There is no evidence that it was the NovoRossiayns or Ukrops who were cheering. We just have no evidence. Only conspiracy theories that BBC and NYT, and their minions like to peddle.
 
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Scalieback

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How do you define "pig-headedness?" Anyone who doesn't buy your fantasies?
Anyone who believes Putin's agitprop and thinks the BBC is anything other than a liberal mouthpiece

Yet I'm supposed to read all of your drivel?

I asked you to look it up so that you can fathom the differences. The intent was not to have you parrot it here.
Clearly it never occurred to you that I would already know

Source of all of the conspiracy theories that you have been presenting here as "facts."
I have done and you know as well as I do that you can't prove the Uke's were going on about an air liner being shot dsown even before it happened. you said you have evidence, prove it.

"Reliable" sources such as BBC and NYT do not count.
You see, the hate is flowing through you. You're unable to distinguish facts from agitprop. Well done

The fact remains that thousands of Russians, and pro-Russia Ukrainians have been slaughtered by the "European Values" loving Ukrops.Putins vain glory
Fixed that for you

Once the truth is revealed, it migh as well turn out the Ukrops themselves shot down the airplane. Pray tell me why was the flight path diverted by Ukrop authorities prior to the crash?
You won't believe the truth even when its published as your puppet master puny Putin won't admit it. More spin, lies and diversion. You tell me, why wasa it diverted? Did it divert? I await the report.

admittedly (saw that before you edited your post)
undoubtedly
:blah:
Oh dear, the debating skill of a five year old. Emoticons rule!

Which edit? The only edit I made on this was to add the video

At that time? Was it Saturday night?
Thursday IIRC

I'd prefer propaganda from Russian dogs than propaganda from the cowardly NATO mice.
Clearly. Them and the Putin bots go well

Nope. Just asking you to substantiate your unsupported claims.
I rarely lie. Why would I?

Accusing others of believing in conspiracy theories is no substitute for failure to back up claims.
I've shown you my evidence. Yours is standard agitprop. Well done comrade

Due course, yeah right

For men may come and men may go, but Scalie will continue to make unsupported claims forever.
That's the way it's done in democracies. I've shown my evidsence and the evidence of a cover up by the Soviets Russians

Nope. You just think your claims are facts. That hardly makes them facts.
As mentioned above, your puppet master won't let you know the truth even when there's prima facie evidence

Deal with it.

Ooohh, cartoon posting. More juvenile posts.

Or maybe it was someone else, and I might be confusing the handles, but granted the possibility I might have mistook the name, I stand by my claims.
Well? Was it Cabana or not? He is a user but not a mod

Well, for someone who is used to "that" forum, he should expect every single post to be deleted if those standards are transported here.
You see, that's where you're wrong. You wouldn't get a mod deleting a thread created by another mod because he was having a hissy fit and his dummy hurt

You are running out of arguments, aren't you?
Never happen, you keep using Americanisms. The hate will get you eventually. Just feel it.

Just showing you, talk about subjects where you have expertise on.
Like referencing L4's as only made in India until told by me that they weren't and referencing it? Crack on. You've no idea. Just a usual internet bully

I have driven BMWs, but I wouldn't argue with one who designed it. To do so would be stupid.
Agreed. But then I wouldn't say the designer knew everything about cars including electric cars, and all vehicles as that is your simile ie Browning knowing everything about firearms.

Oooh, internet slang.

Nope.

I supported Indian freedom fighters taking the help of Hitler to fight against a regime worse than that of Hitler, i.e., the British Empire.

You did a good job of twisting that.

Is it just you, or is dishonesty a British trait?
Ahh, the anti Brit rhetoric. Didn't take long. So sad, that it comes down to that and being a puppet of mother Russia.

I will dig out the post one day. Until then, we can just accept for now you're a Nazi supporter.

Blake Shelton's lyrics, but never mind, you stick to your Saturday night unfunny jokes.
Oh dear, country music as well. You're turning into the hated satan

I see a lot of claims of rebuttal. I just don't see any rebuttal.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/02/russia-today-anti-western-ukraine-crosstalk-kremlin

That's still better than debating like a Triceratops, innit?
Innit? You really are five and I claim my £5! Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I can see agitprop fro what it is.

I take it you admit you did not see him post that. Thanks.
When did I say I did? Never in fact, but don't let your Brit hatred and Russia love fest cloud your judgement

You are being imaginative. There was no cheering whatsoever. There is no evidence that that alleged cheering was from the moment the MH-17 was shot down. There is no evidence that it was the NovoRossiayns or Ukrops who were cheering. We just have no evidence. Only conspiracy theories that BBC and NYT, and their minions like to peddle.
I know what I saw and happy to swear an affidavit to that effect.
 

Scalieback

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Not sure whether this needs its own thread or can stay here. happy for the mods to decide:
If Russia breaks up
The peril beyond Putin
The world rightly worries about the prospect of a Greater Russia. But a Lesser Russia could be just as troubling

UNDER Vladimir Putin’s presidency, Russia is seen in the outside world as an expansionist power trying to revise post-Soviet borders and rebuild an empire. But what if Russia itself—a country of nearly 200 nationalities that stretches across 11 time zones—is in danger of crumbling?
 

pmaitra

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Of course comrade, keep up the RT charade. In the real world, some of us saw it. I'm sure it will come out in the investigation anyway. Not that you will believe the outcome of that anyway.
Hope the pronunciation of "comrade" didn't endure much trouble through that stiff upper lip. :cool1:
Not sure whether this needs its own thread or can stay here. happy for the mods to decide:
If Russia breaks up
The peril beyond Putin
Last time I checked, Russia grew in size.

This post shall remain here, unlike that Mars Orbiter Mission thread that was deleted in that venerable forum of yours. Be glad we treat our members way better, and try not to whine so much. :biggrin2:
 

pmaitra

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Anyone who believes Putin's agitprop and thinks the BBC is anything other than a liberal mouthpiece
Sure, but those that distrust BBC include people who are not necessarily believers in Russian propaganda.

There are enough posts in DFI, by various members, on subjects that have nothing to do with Russia. That alone testifies to the credibility, or lack thereof, of the British Brainwashing Corporation.
Yet I'm supposed to read all of your drivel?
Your choice. Sensible things are not the things you want to waste your time on.
Clearly it never occurred to you that I would already know
It just occurred to me that you know how to use Google.
I have done and you know as well as I do that you can't prove the Uke's were going on about an air liner being shot dsown even before it happened. you said you have evidence, prove it.
I cannot prove it either, and I admit, but then, that is me. I don't confuse evidence with proof, and I don't peddle conspiracy theories as facts, and I don't portray the ISIS flag as that of "Free Syrian Army" flag. That type of debauchery is only expected of BBC.
You see, the hate is flowing through you. You're unable to distinguish facts from agitprop. Well done
No, I am just being honest. Alternatively, I could be polite over a cup of tea. I cannot be honest and polite at the same time. Sorry.
Fixed that for you
Some people have a habit of correcting those that are already correct, but if that make you feel better, then you may have your moment of self delusion.
You won't believe the truth even when its published as your puppet master puny Putin won't admit it. More spin, lies and diversion. You tell me, why wasa it diverted? Did it divert? I await the report.
Just because your puppet masters' (BBC et al.) conspiracy theories come across as the "truth" to you, does not mean I have to share your opinion.
Oh dear, the debating skill of a five year old. Emoticons rule!
And yet, you struggle to convince me. :tsk:
Which edit? The only edit I made on this was to add the video
Ok, I'll give you the benefit of doubt. Not that I expect you to admit it.
Thursday IIRC
Oh yeah, began early probably.
Clearly. Them and the Putin bots go well
That's a common psychological projection used by NATO bots.
I rarely lie. Why would I?
Probably, but this is one of those rare occasions.
I've shown you my evidence. Yours is standard agitprop. Well done comrade
What evidence? Some screenshot from some social media network?

I can post picture of Facebook posts by Sonia Gandhi. Does that mean she actually posted them?

I pity your naïveté.
That's the way it's done in democracies. I've shown my evidsence and the evidence of a cover up by the Soviets Russians
Where is the cover up?

The only cover up is the Brits hiding the black box contents and BBC hiding the interview of the locals.

Why scared of the truth?
As mentioned above, your puppet master won't let you know the truth even when there's prima facie evidence
I am a puppet of my mind, which I can assure you, is very discerning and curious.

Ooohh, cartoon posting. More juvenile posts.
Yes, I posts usually reflect the audience.
Well? Was it Cabana or not? He is a user but not a mod
It is that guy who used the Pakistani flag as his profile picture, whether it is cabana or someone else, is immaterial. The point is, he is a troll, and he became a Mod.
You see, that's where you're wrong. You wouldn't get a mod deleting a thread created by another mod because he was having a hissy fit and his dummy hurt
I am not wrong. That is your opinion. It is your opinion that is wrong.
Never happen, you keep using Americanisms. The hate will get you eventually. Just feel it.
I am sure you felt this contributes a lot to the discussion?
Like referencing L4's as only made in India until told by me that they weren't and referencing it? Crack on. You've no idea. Just a usual internet bully
Ok, have fun with your IJKLMNOPQRS.

I asked for evidence, and that makes me a bully?

What is the definition of "bully" in your language, which obviously is not English. Does "bully" mean anyone who asks for evidence? :crazy:
Agreed. But then I wouldn't say the designer knew everything about cars including electric cars, and all vehicles as that is your simile ie Browning knowing everything about firearms.
Well, not all designers know everything about what they built, and neither do all the users.

Take the British made Saxons for example, that were supplied to the Ukrops. They are very lethal—to the users of course—not to the enemy. :lol:



upload_2015-8-3_21-19-40.jpeg




These Saxons are aptly named.

Before you resume your broken record about me being "anti-Brit," I just want to point out that British engineering at one point was world class, producing some of the finest steam locomotives, and today, it has run out of steam, and is, well, you just see the pictures above.

Oooh, internet slang.
Is that supposed to be a witty remark?
Ahh, the anti Brit rhetoric. Didn't take long. So sad, that it comes down to that and being a puppet of mother Russia.
Not the Queen Mother. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I will dig out the post one day. Until then, we can just accept for now you're a Nazi supporter.
That "we" includes just you. Oh wait, another handle comes to mind.
Oh dear, country music as well. You're turning into the hated satan


http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/mar/02/russia-today-anti-western-ukraine-crosstalk-kremlin

Innit? You really are five and I claim my £5! Maybe I'm a dinosaur, but I can see agitprop fro what it is.
I think this is the fifth time you have mentioned "five." I didn't bother to read that Guardian article. Where is your guardian? You need to be placed in the cradle for the night with a milk bottle.
When did I say I did? Never in fact, but don't let your Brit hatred and Russia love fest cloud your judgement
Ok, sixth time. Try copy-paste, and get it done in one post. It will save you a lot of trouble. Something like the assembly line innovated by Henry Ford.
I know what I saw and happy to swear an affidavit to that effect.
Awww. As if your legal documents will scare those that are braving the war. Just because one swears, does not mean he is speaking the truth. Even I can swear that David Cameron was one of the snipers at Kiev's Maidan Nezalezhnosti, but would that make it true?
 
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Akim

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Take the British made Saxons for example, that were supplied to the Ukrops. They are very lethal—to the users of course—not to the enemy. :lol:



View attachment 5666



These Saxons are aptly named.

Before you resume your broken record about me being "anti-Brit," I just want to point out that British engineering at one point was world class, producing some of the finest steam locomotives, and today, it has run out of steam, and is, well, you just see the pictures above.
@Scalieback
Don't listen to him. "Saxon" is a good machine.
 

Scalieback

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@Scalieback
Don't listen to him. "Saxon" is a good machine.
Thanks Akim, I've no doubt the Saxons are appreciated by the Ukranians. Only a pity we couldn't give you something better than a 30 year old 'battle taxi'

I'll answer the Putin puppet who seems to have lost his strings (pinocchio for lying as well) when I can get to a computer rather than my phone :)
 

Scalieback

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Hope the pronunciation of "comrade" didn't endure much trouble through that stiff upper lip. :cool1:
Not in the slightest. Even used proletariat earlier as well

More Brit bashing. Can you see through the red mist yet?

Last time I checked, Russia grew in size.
That's the problem with history, failing to learn from it

This post shall remain here, unlike that Mars Orbiter Mission thread that was deleted in that venerable forum of yours. Be glad we treat our members way better, and try not to whine so much. :biggrin2:
More dummy spitting. Oh dear
 

The enlightened

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Not in the slightest. Even used proletariat earlier as well

More Brit bashing. Can you see through the red mist yet?


That's the problem with history, failing to learn from it


More dummy spitting. Oh dear
Which forum are you guys talking about.
 

Akim

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Thanks Akim, I've no doubt the Saxons are appreciated by the Ukranians. Only a pity we couldn't give you something better than a 30 year old 'battle taxi'
They are not used as APCs. This control battalion and a platoon of reconnaissance UAVs.
 

Akim

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Electronic warfare: what lessons the U.S. army can be learned from the Ukrainian conflict
Translate from Russian
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1416591.html


My personal addition. In Ukraine a very strong school of electronic warfare and her countering. However, during the years of independence has not been received in the Ukrainian army serial sample of equipment EW. As long as we adjust their production, we ask Americans to give us their analogues, but they have nothing to offer to counter Russian EW.
 
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Scalieback

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Electronic warfare: what lessons the U.S. army can be learned from the Ukrainian conflict
Translate from Russian
http://bmpd.livejournal.com/1416591.html


My personal addition. In Ukraine a very strong school of electronic warfare and her countering. However, during the years of independence has not been received in the Ukrainian army serial sample of equipment EW. As long as we adjust their production, we ask Americans to give us their analogues, but they have nothing to offer to counter Russian EW.
I think the Americans can learn a great deal about current Soviet Russian ELINT and SIGINT. As with all INT collection, it's collection, analysis and dissemination.

Countering depends on what you are trying to counter, be it broad spectrum jamming onwards. If you don't have frequency hopping and encrypted radios it can be difficult

Edited as have fat thumbs ;-)
 
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Scalieback

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Seems there is no 16 Abn Bde on the Russian ORBAT, but there is a 16 Special Forces/Purpose Bde:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz
http://englishrussia.com/2011/10/24/a-day-with-the-16th-special-forces-brigade/
-however, I doubt very much SF would be used for guard duty

Edited to add: http://news.sky.com/story/1499223/russian-soldiers-deaths-raise-ukraine-questions
Anton Savelyev died the week before his 21st birthday. A framed photo shows him wearing Russia's paratrooper uniform, the same uniform worn by 16th Brigade.

He was pictured on social media standing in front of the 16th Brigade memorial.

‎On his grave there was a wreath addressed: "To the Defender of the Fatherland, from the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation."

Other flowers were marked: "From comrades" and "From the command of the unit".
I'll give them this, they are very good at this disinformation lark.

Good job I'm not in Russia as it's a state secret to talk about these deaths:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...res-all-russian-military-deaths-state-secrets
 
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pmaitra

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Thanks Akim, I've no doubt the Saxons are appreciated by the Ukranians. Only a pity we couldn't give you something better than a 30 year old 'battle taxi'

I'll answer the Putin puppet who seems to have lost his strings (pinocchio for lying as well) when I can get to a computer rather than my phone :)
Yep, carry on with your name-calling. No wonder last time your posts were deleted by another mod, and now you are back whining like a child whose candy has been snatched away. :pound:


Not in the slightest. Even used proletariat earlier as well

More Brit bashing. Can you see through the red mist yet?
I am not going to defend your interpretation of my comments.

That's the problem with history, failing to learn from it
The uppity "600" from the tiny island that no one pays any attention to learnt the hard way.

More dummy spitting. Oh dear
Not quite. Just hoping you would learn some standards, but considering the kind of forum you come from, perhaps I am being too optimistic.

Which forum are you guys talking about.
I was advised not to mention any other forum when being critical of it. All I can tell you is that it is a potty-mouth forum, and being a British forum, they deleted a thread about the Mars Orbiter Mission. I suspect it was deleted because there was not a single vulgarity in the OP. If you cannot manage skid row language, you won't fit in that forum. :cool3:
 
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