Civil war in Ukraine

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pmaitra

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BBC, internationally recognised news organ. RT, state propaganda reported to Ofcom. Says it all really.


Really? You believe all blogs? I'll post the blogs about RT cock ups if you like?


The Guardian? Sky News? Or is it just all western media?
BBC is internationally recognized as a retarded British propaganda and codswallop spewing website.
Service ceiling and max operating altitude. Difference is one where it is designed to work and the other, where it could possibly get to with a prevailing wind, a lot of luck, good conditions etc.
Tell me something I don't know.
The SU25 according to the designer can't get to 10.5km, let alone intercept (it's slower, so can't chase) a 777 and somehow engage an airliner with a heat seeking missile that doesn't have forward lock on ability and somehow not hit one engine but hit the crew compartment and then the 'mud mover' somehow gets near to the 777 and rakes it with cannon fire. Of all the conspiracy theories, it really is a poor one.
Sure. Anything that challenges what you claim which you cannot substantiate, is a conspiracy theory.

You do realize we have been bombarded with theories like "the separatists did it," since before the plane was shot down, right? It was revealed that the Ukrops began to publish stories about the Russians shooting down the plane even before it actually crashed.
I want the truth. Whether it's Ukrainians', Separatists, Russians or flying saucers. That way 298 innocent lives can be accounted for. Sadly, I believe the Buk crew is now dead and we'll never get the truth because Russia will not cooperate.
Which BUK crew is dead? First prove that a BUK was involved at all. Then think about BUK crew. You are trying to build the second floor without even building a foundation. Very juvenile of you.
I have no doubts, based on the evidence I have seen and read, that the Separatist crew under the direction of Russian trainers fired the Buk at what they thought was a Ukrainian transport, reported it, saw what was falling from the skies, packed the Buk up on the transporter which was returned to Russia and are now dead.
You have seen no evidence. All you have read and heard are conspiracy theories.

No problem. I have my doubts. I don't let my nationalistic jingoism cloud my reasoning skills.

Why don't you want a proper investigation? Just so Russia can prepare more lies and disinformation?
I want, but for that, we need that black box in competent and honest hands.
Keep believing your own propaganda. Most people can see the truth.
I am entitled to my beliefs, as are you.
DFI is the same, Britain bad, Russia good, India awesome, Pakistan rubbish
Yes.

And your venerable forum that I shall not name makes it a mandatory skill to be a grade a troll to be qualified for being considered for appointment as a moderator. Example: cabana.

No wonder your standards are abysmal.
It's not, the report will be published once they've completed it. Very clever actually to get Russia to veto the tribunal. Watch this space for the entire Russian propaganda machine to start up with lies, spinning, disinformation
Excuses won't hide the fact that NATO countries' talk about "freedom of speech" is all hat and no cattle.
Authority of what? That I'm an 'anonymous' user of a bulletin board and have Brit Mil experience? A damn sight more experience than you in life and as you're a 'Putin fan boy' ie not prepared to hear or see anything against him or Russia, able to see more than one side of an argument.
Authority of what? Nothing.

A civilian called John Browning understood lot more about firearms than contemporary mil pros.

I will gladly be educated by an aerospace engineer.
Also, unlike you, I admit if I'm wrong
To admit you are wrong, you need to be able to recognize your mistakes.

You admitted previously to being a Nazi.
previously
undoubtedly

:blah:

I'll dig up the Blog on RT Bloopers then if that's your evidence threshold.
Sure,

"what they call work,
diggin' in the dirt,
gotta get it in the ground,
'fore the rain come down . . ."

Yeah, RT a propaganda machine reported to Ofcom. Much as I dislike the liberal BBC far more respected internationally than RT.
Whatever that means, means little to this discussion. Ramble along nonetheless.

Not me, you block quoted, so FAIL (again)
If that makes you feel better.


Before I do, what is the significance of: ОГНЕОПАСНО? Did he flame you or something?
No, it simply means "inflammable." That is all. He did not flame me. He just tried to correct me when I was already correct.

You saw him post that?
 
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Akim

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@Scalieback,
No separatist could not operate a Buk. It can only be a crew of professional who has dozens of hours of training.
 

Scalieback

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I can't tell which one was photoshopped. I think the one that says "I don't want war" was photoshopped to add the word "don't," but I couldn't tell for sure.
How did I know you'd say that :) A pig headedness refusal to look at facts
 

Scalieback

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@Scalieback,
No separatist could not operate a Buk. It can only be a crew of professional who has dozens of hours of training.
I know. However, I believe that some Seps may have previously been operators in former service. Whatever, they're now dead. A pity the Russians families are not allowed to grieve for them. It's now an offence in Russia to mention the deaths .........
 

Akim

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I know. However, I believe that some Seps may have previously been operators in former service. Whatever, they're now dead. A pity the Russians families are not allowed to grieve for them. It's now an offence in Russia to mention the deaths .........
Former operators must pass combat coordination of the crew. It's about three months of training. In addition , they must be constantly serving the commander. When that tragedy occurred, I immediately said here that this is not the separatists. To hit such a missile "earth-air" was only for crew Ukrainian or Russian army. Later it was proved that the shots came from the territory of temporarily uncontrollable Ukraine.
 

Scalieback

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BBC is internationally recognized as a retarded British propaganda and codswallop spewing website.
Yeah, that's right good, let the anger flow through you. Edited to add:

Tell me something I don't know.
You asked me to look it up. I don't need to

Sure. Anything that challenges what you claim which you cannot substantiate, is a conspiracy theory.

You do realize we have been bombarded with theories like "the separatists did it," since before the plane was shot down, right? It was revealed that the Ukrops began to publish stories about the Russians shooting down the plane even before it actually crashed.
Source on shoot downs prior to the actual shoot down?

The fact remains 298 innocents died because of Vlad the Small megalomania. Whoever did it.

Which BUK crew is dead? First prove that a BUK was involved at all. Then think about BUK crew. You are trying to build the second floor without even building a foundation. Very juvenile of you.
As I said, the Russians have already admitted it was likely a Buk. Your briefings not up to date? I'm a juvenile? So says the 'voice of Russia.'

You have seen no evidence. All you have read and heard are conspiracy theories.
No, I was watching the news at the time. Went on the web for more info and saw lots.

Only Russian 'propaganda dogs' have pushed out conspiracy theories.

No problem. I have my doubts. I don't let my nationalistic jingoism cloud my reasoning skills.
Yes you do, you believe conspiracy theories about 'stealth SU25's being able to reach, chase, fire missiles and rake with cannon fire a 777

I want, but for that, we need that black box in competent and honest hands.
It is and the report will be published in due course.

I am entitled to my beliefs, as are you.
Mine are based on fact and high probability of the truth. Yours are based on kremlin lies

As I said, no change

And your venerable forum that I shall not name makes it a mandatory skill to be a grade a troll to be qualified for being considered for appointment as a moderator. Example: cabana.

No wonder your standards are abysmal.
Cabana's not a Mod. FAIL

Standards are abysmal, like a Mod deleting threads he doesn't like?

Excuses won't hide the fact that NATO countries' talk about "freedom of speech" is all hat and no cattle.
You and your Americanisms. Be careful, the land of the free may take you yet.

Authority of what? Nothing.

A civilian called John Browning understood lot more about firearms than contemporary mil pros.

I will gladly be educated by an aerospace engineer.
Did he? He designed various firearms, very good ones. Did he know more about firearms or did he have a specialism in a very small area?

To admit you are wrong, you need to be able to recognize your mistakes.
Hallelujah. Praise the lord, for he has seen the light!

previously
undoubtedly

:blah:
So you admit to being a Nazi then?

Sure,

"what they call work,
diggin' in the dirt,
gotta get it in the ground,
'fore the rain come down . . ."
Lost on me, more Americanism? Anyway, posted.

Whatever that means, means little to this discussion. Ramble along nonetheless.
It means your propaganda tool has been reprted for being a propaganda tool.

If that makes you feel better.
Not really, I don't debate like a five year old

No, it simply means "inflammable." That is all. He did not flame me. He just tried to correct me when I was already correct.
Roger, seen.

You saw him post that?
No, that's what came out very shortly afterwards. Only needs some voice recognition software though doesn't it?

What I saw was them cheering in the background (thinking another AN26 was hit and then looking and seeing things like seats and bodies falling out of the sky), now removed. All posted on social media at the time.
 

Scalieback

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Former operators must pass combat coordination of the crew. It's about three months of training. In addition , they must be constantly serving the commander. When that tragedy occurred, I immediately said here that this is not the separatists. To hit such a missile "earth-air" was only for crew Ukrainian or Russian army. Later it was proved that the shots came from the territory of temporarily uncontrollable Ukraine.
Roger, understood. You don't reckon the Russians would have let a former operator do 'on the job training' whilst shooting down AN26's?
 

Akim

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Roger, understood. You don't reckon the Russians would have let a former operator do 'on the job training' whilst shooting down AN26's?
To confuse An-26 and the Boeing-777 was impossible. On the radar screen displays speed and altitude. An-26 is not able to fly.
 

Scalieback

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To confuse An-26 and the Boeing-777 was impossible. On the radar screen displays speed and altitude. An-26 is not able to fly.
Seeing as Americans mistook a Tornado for an Iraqi fighter using Patriot, there will be doubt. If you've got a half trained chimp at the controls and he sees contrails and has been shooting AN26's earlier, it's easy to see how the mistake was made.

Personally, I believe it was a tragic accident which if they'd been open and honest about it right from the beginning would have meant everything was resolved. However, the Russians have a habit of lying about shooting down airliners
 

Akim

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Personally, I believe it was a tragic accident which if they'd been open and honest about it right from the beginning would have meant everything was resolved. However, the Russians have a habit of lying about shooting down airliners

I told the technical component.The reason why was a start, let set a court or tribunal.
 

Scalieback

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The international Tribunal can be arranged in various ways, not only through the UN security Council.
Only at the Hague. Without Russian involvement it'll just lead to them saying from the other side of the fence "it's not fair" "boo hoo, everyone hates us" rather than acting like grown ups and helping with the investigation

Only the implementation of the decision will be optional for Russia. Modern Russia is closed from the open society like a snail, like North Korea.
I know, that's why Kim was invited to the May Day celebrations. One despot inviting another.

Much of the internet is banned to them. You can obviously use proxy servers, but do they know how to? Do they know there are different opinions? Sad really.

Even worse is not being able to talk about the war dead. Now an offence. you can't even grieve for your son who was killed in a 'training accident' even though his FB posts said Ukraine. All whilst 'puny Putin' the bare chested hero of mother Russia rapes it dry.

In the meantime, the Rebel leader alleged to be involved is being sued for $900M
 

Akim

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Only at the Hague. Without Russian involvement it'll just lead to them saying from the other side of the fence "it's not fair" "boo hoo, everyone hates us" rather than acting like grown ups and helping with the investigation



I know, that's why Kim was invited to the May Day celebrations. One despot inviting another.

Much of the internet is banned to them. You can obviously use proxy servers, but do they know how to? Do they know there are different opinions? Sad really.

Even worse is not being able to talk about the war dead. Now an offence. you can't even grieve for your son who was killed in a 'training accident' even though his FB posts said Ukraine. All whilst 'puny Putin' the bare chested hero of mother Russia rapes it dry.

In the meantime, the Rebel leader alleged to be involved is being sued for $900M

Time will put everything in its place and Russian citizens also will clear. At Ceausescu was officially 90% support of the Romanian people. It toppled over the week.
 

Scalieback

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Time will put everything in its place and Russian citizens also will clear. At Ceausescu was officially 90% support of the Romanian people. It toppled over the week.
Indeed, I am waiting for his own 'Winter Palace' moment. Up the proletariat!

Sadly, I don't think the Russian people want to go back to democracy, short lived as it was for them. They've always wanted strong leaders. It'll be another oligarch who can 'buy off' the Praetorian Guard and we'll see the Emperor's new clothes soon after that.
 

Scalieback

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From some recent Russian tank games apparently. Any Russian speakers have a heads up on this?
 
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