Civil war in Ukraine

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shashank Nayak

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
5,153
Likes
17,238
Country flag
this world fucking sucks and i want everything to burn let the nukes fly.

View attachment 132472

View attachment 132473

Are Ukrainians also interested in fighting poles as well? Since this question is actually serious regarding Russian invasion what would NATO do if both of their allies are fighting each other
257 modern aircraft in a year.. Thats bull sh*t. Does it include overhauled and upraded old aircraft as well..? Even then, its huge..
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
They have wet dreams about Russian invading them because that would resolve all the miseries they have created, turning a normal country into a shithole.
Invade&conquer us, brother Moskals, please please please!
A Moskal (москаль) is a Russian soldier or a Russian servant of power. This definition has no nationality.
Russian is katsap (кацап).
 

pipebomb

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
456
Likes
974
Country flag
Mind you, the US Coast Guard is no joke, they were in Black Sea last year.



Now the question should be asked, "what was USCG doing in the waters near Russia, 1000's of miles away from US coasts?"
You misunderstood me, i am just concerned for ordinary Ukrainian civilians (who will loose the most) and certainly not taking any side between us or russia. The thing i have not able to understand is why US been punching WAY below its weight since its directly threatens its interests not only in Eastern Europe but also asia. And do not tell me its the nukes.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
2,138
Likes
13,584
Country flag
Let's look at the root cause. Russia attacked us. Everything.
I mean, you can keep saying this again and again if you want, but the Goebbels tactic of repeat a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth will not work in this day and age.

The real, democratic sovereign government was ousted in the US-sponsored coup at the Maidan. That was the first attack, and it was not launched by Russia.

It was essential to take Crimea back in 2014 or it would pose a significant geopolitical threat, as NATO navy would be stationed there.

Most importantly, Yanukovych invited Russia to use military force to restore public order in Ukraine. Since the Rada vote to impeach and remove Yanukovych as president did not reach quorum, it was therefore unconstitutional and illegal according to the Ukrainian constitution. As Yanukovych was still constitutionally president of Ukraine and commander-in-chief of the armed forces when he invited Russian troops in, the Russian military intervention in Crimea was legally valid.

Crimea wasn't even annexed so it's not a violation of the Budapest Memorandum. Crimea seceded from Ukraine, became an independent country for a day, petitioned Russia for accession into the country, 96% of its people voted to join Russia and its accession was accepted by Russia.

Do you not remember what the Ukrainian Nazi ultranationalists did after the Maidan coup? The threats had already started coming towards the local Russians in Ukraine, threatening to destroy their language, culture etc etc. The US-fuelled subversives then started beating and roughing up local Russians, and you wonder why Donbass seceded?

That is the entire truth and context of it. Saying "Russia attacked" is cope and a flimsy attempt at justifying doing the bidding of USA and NATO.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
I mean, you can keep saying this again and again if you want, but the Goebbels tactic of repeat a lie a hundred times and it becomes the truth will not work in this day and age.

The real, democratic sovereign government was ousted in the US-sponsored coup at the Maidan. That was the first attack, and it was not launched by Russia.

It was essential to take Crimea back in 2014 or it would pose a significant geopolitical threat, as NATO navy would be stationed there.

Most importantly, Yanukovych invited Russia to use military force to restore public order in Ukraine. Since the Rada vote to impeach and remove Yanukovych as president did not reach quorum, it was therefore unconstitutional and illegal according to the Ukrainian constitution. As Yanukovych was still constitutionally president of Ukraine and commander-in-chief of the armed forces when he invited Russian troops in, the Russian military intervention in Crimea was legally valid.

Crimea wasn't even annexed so it's not a violation of the Budapest Memorandum. Crimea seceded from Ukraine, became an independent country for a day, petitioned Russia for accession into the country, 96% of its people voted to join Russia and its accession was accepted by Russia.

Do you not remember what the Ukrainian Nazi ultranationalists did after the Maidan coup? The threats had already started coming towards the local Russians in Ukraine, threatening to destroy their language, culture etc etc. The US-fuelled subversives then started beating and roughing up local Russians, and you wonder why Donbass seceded?

That is the entire truth and context of it. Saying "Russia attacked" is cope and a flimsy attempt at justifying doing the bidding of USA and NATO.
Cockroaches in the head do not make their owner smarter.:)
I don't give a shit about this version, because I lived in Donetsk then and I know how it was.
Your government has not recognized these quasi-states and you can say whatever you want, it won't change anything.
Your "sofa analytics" is like a cheap Russian carbon copy. Therefore, it is disgusting for me to communicate with Russian citizens - nothing depends on their opinion.
Yesterday was a year since Russian opposition leader Navalny was arrested in Moscow. Not a single bastard (падла) came out to defend him. And yesterday, Poroshenko, the leader of the Ukrainian opposition, returned to Kiev. The Ukrainian shit-government wanted to arrest him, but 20 thousand people came out and they got scared.
Do you feel the difference?
 

Shashank Nayak

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
5,153
Likes
17,238
Country flag
You misunderstood me, i am just concerned for ordinary Ukrainian civilians (who will loose the most) and certainly not taking any side between us or russia. The thing i have not able to understand is why US been punching WAY below its weight since its directly threatens its interests not only in Eastern Europe but also asia. And do not tell me its the nukes.
Protecting Ukraine does not have the same importance as protecting the industrial powerhouses of Germany and France had during the cold war. So, the US is less willing to expend significant blood for Ukraine.
Also, we are past the unipolar moment, and China has already emerged as the most serious military challenger to US in the pacific. The US also needs to maintain significant forces in the middle east to deter Iran.
So, the US has finite military resources, and to truly deter Russia, the US would have to undertake huge military deployments in Europe, which would screw up American posture against other adversaries..
And that is why Russia, Iran and China are teaming up, and China continues to import sh*t load of Iranian oil, even under the threat of significant US sanctions. because if Iran buckles, then, it means more US military hardware deployed against China.. similarly if Russia buckles, then, it means more US military hardware deployed against China..
 

Optimistic Nihilist

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
2,138
Likes
13,584
Country flag
Cockroaches in the head do not make their owner smarter.:)
I don't give a shit about this version, because I lived in Donetsk then and I know how it was.
Your government has not recognized these quasi-states and you can say whatever you want, it won't change anything.
Your "sofa analytics" is like a cheap Russian carbon copy. Therefore, it is disgusting for me to communicate with Russian citizens - nothing depends on their opinion.
Yesterday was a year since Russian opposition leader Navalny was arrested in Moscow. Not a single bastard (падла) came out to defend him. And yesterday, Poroshenko, the leader of the Ukrainian opposition, returned to Kiev. The Ukrainian shit-government wanted to arrest him, but 20 thousand people came out and they got scared.
Do you feel the difference?
The fact that you got so triggered and angry proves the point on its own. It's obvious you don't give a shit because just like every misguided ultranationalist youth in Ukraine, you seem to believe that a war, a situation where people will kill others is going to be something glorious or heroic. Which is the reason why Ukraine is continually playing the victim card while simultaneously provoking Russia and doing the bidding of the West continually.

You'll learn, like everyone in history has. There's nothing glorious or poetic about war or death. Just a bunch of misguided fools trying to be something they're not.

Your only response turns out to be anger and rage. No actual answers to how NATO navy would have been stationed in Crimea if Russia had not invaded.

No answer to how the Rada vote to impeach and remove Yanukovych as president did not reach quorum, was unconstitutional and illegal and therefore when he invited Russian troops in, the Russian military intervention in Crimea was legally valid.

No answer to how Crimea wasn't annexed but seceded from Ukraine, became an independent country for a day, petitioned Russia for accession into the country, 96% of its people voted to join Russia and its accession was accepted by Russia.

I'm not even a Russian citizen, but the very fact that you find it "disgusting" to communicate with Russians speaks a lot about what attitudes are responsible for this situation today. Russophobic leaders both in the West and Ukraine feel no compulsions in poking the bear repeatedly and then claim that Russia is the aggressor when they are demanded to stop.

And here's the funny thing about Navalny. Everyone, I mean everyone in the West, Europe and elsewhere seems to absolutely love him, cause he's their puppet who will do the bidding of foreign oligarchs.

Surprising that Ukrainians shill for him though, considering Navalny was literally calling for Russia to annex Eastern Ukraine back in 2014, and has now gone full 180 since his Atlantic Council masters pulled some strings.

As for you claiming you're are any different when it comes to Russia as far as free speech of the opposition is concerned, spare your breath.

There is no difference between you two.

Your President Zelensky prosecuted Viktor Medvedchuk, leader of Ukraine’s largest opposition party, for "treason"; shut three opposition media sites, and imposed sanctions on eight other media and TV companies for five years.

And that great paragon of democracy USA continues the military assistance even so. You cannot keep fooling people forever.
 

Flash12

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
922
Likes
2,760
Country flag
Cockroaches in the head do not make their owner smarter.:)
I don't give a shit about this version, because I lived in Donetsk then and I know how it was.
Your government has not recognized these quasi-states and you can say whatever you want, it won't change anything.
Your "sofa analytics" is like a cheap Russian carbon copy. Therefore, it is disgusting for me to communicate with Russian citizens - nothing depends on their opinion.
Yesterday was a year since Russian opposition leader Navalny was arrested in Moscow. Not a single bastard (падла) came out to defend him. And yesterday, Poroshenko, the leader of the Ukrainian opposition, returned to Kiev. The Ukrainian shit-government wanted to arrest him, but 20 thousand people came out and they got scared.
Do you feel the difference?
Ahaha, he pretends that something depends on him. You only have the brave when you know that nothing threatens you and the West, if anything, will help.
How many people protested when they burned people in Odessa? When they killed and imprisoned the opposition? When they closed TV channels? How many peace rallies? How many are against the abolition of the Russian language in schools?
Yes, there were no one because you are the real cowards. And you don't need much courage to go against Yanukovych and Zelensky. These, even sitting in a tank, are afraid of a hedgehog.
But after that, you didn’t protest very much later:
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
The fact that you got so triggered and angry proves the point on its own. It's obvious you don't give a shit because just like every misguided ultranationalist youth in Ukraine, you seem to believe that a war, a situation where people will kill others is going to be something glorious or heroic. Which is the reason why Ukraine is continually playing the victim card while simultaneously provoking Russia and doing the bidding of the West continually.

You'll learn, like everyone in history has. There's nothing glorious or poetic about war or death. Just a bunch of misguided fools trying to be something they're not.

Your only response turns out to be anger and rage. No actual answers to how NATO navy would have been stationed in Crimea if Russia had not invaded.

No answer to how the Rada vote to impeach and remove Yanukovych as president did not reach quorum, was unconstitutional and illegal and therefore when he invited Russian troops in, the Russian military intervention in Crimea was legally valid.

No answer to how Crimea wasn't annexed but seceded from Ukraine, became an independent country for a day, petitioned Russia for accession into the country, 96% of its people voted to join Russia and its accession was accepted by Russia.

I'm not even a Russian citizen, but the very fact that you find it "disgusting" to communicate with Russians speaks a lot about what attitudes are responsible for this situation today. Russophobic leaders both in the West and Ukraine feel no compulsions in poking the bear repeatedly and then claim that Russia is the aggressor when they are demanded to stop.

And here's the funny thing about Navalny. Everyone, I mean everyone in the West, Europe and elsewhere seems to absolutely love him, cause he's their puppet who will do the bidding of foreign oligarchs.

Surprising that Ukrainians shill for him though, considering Navalny was literally calling for Russia to annex Eastern Ukraine back in 2014, and has now gone full 180 since his Atlantic Council masters pulled some strings.

As for you claiming you're are any different when it comes to Russia as far as free speech of the opposition is concerned, spare your breath.

There is no difference between you two.

Your President Zelensky prosecuted Viktor Medvedchuk, leader of Ukraine’s largest opposition party, for "treason"; shut three opposition media sites, and imposed sanctions on eight other media and TV companies for five years.

And that great paragon of democracy USA continues the military assistance even so. You cannot keep fooling people forever.
Thank you for "youth". :)
I don't like to read or write "sheets" like you write.
No one came out in support of Medvedchuk. This means that the numbers of his support have the same "paper weight" as the numbers of referendums in Crimea and Donbass. And the Kremlin knows this very well, but it does what is beneficial to it. Several referendums have already been held in Transnistria, but the Kremlin does not take into account their results.
About the USA. You now look like a Bedouin from American films who is afraid of the CIA. The CIA is not all-powerful enough to organize mass protests here. It really was popular discontent.
Everything else is bullshit and an attempt to justify Russia's aggression.
We do not like Navalny, but he is considered the leader of the Russian opposition.
 

Flash12

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2021
Messages
922
Likes
2,760
Country flag
No one came out in support of Medvedchuk. This means that the numbers of his support have the same "paper weight" as the numbers of referendums in Crimea and Donbass.
But in fact, Crimea and Donbass directly dream of being part of Ukraine, yes? 😁

People don't come out to protest for Medvedchuk, because his electorate is ordinary people who usually work and have no time to protest. Unlike the nationalists, with washed and beaten heads, who became something significant only after the maidan.
 

pipebomb

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
456
Likes
974
Country flag
So, the US is less willing to expend significant blood for Ukraine.
Raise the stakes, deploy US military personnel inside Ukrainian and let putin make the decision if he wants to escalate
would have to undertake huge military deployments in Europe
US could respond in Syria doesn't have to be in Ukraine. Just let President putin know if US personnel comes under attack in Ukraine it could cost him every little gain he made in syria.
US has finite military resources
Its very easy to underestimate US led alliance's conventional might these days when internet is filled with chinese fan arts.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
But in fact, Crimea and Donbass directly dream of being part of Ukraine, yes? 😁

People don't come out to protest for Medvedchuk, because his electorate is ordinary people who usually work and have no time to protest. Unlike the nationalists, with washed and beaten heads, who became something significant only after the maidan.
Look after yours better.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
2,138
Likes
13,584
Country flag
No one came out in support of Medvedchuk. This means that the numbers of his support have the same "paper weight" as the numbers of referendums in Crimea and Donbass.
Ah, I see. So, persecuting or oppressing someone is good as long as a large number of people say it should happen. It should only not be done, when like you said, 20,000 people say it shouldn't. You're not really making the point for democracy and freedom, are you?

Which, to be honest, is fine. If that's what you consider the best system for your country, that's what you should go with. What's unbearable is the hypocritical harping that we are "democratic and free" and not like the "Russian fascists". You can't have it both ways.

Moving on, you seem to be claiming that the Crimean referendum was fraudulent. Naturally, if you are making such a claim, it is only to be expected for you to provide your proof for it.

Me personally, I don't see how overthrowing the elected government by force – and subsequently threatening to ban a language spoken by the majority of Ukrainians by crazed ultra-nationalists who destroyed the Kravchuk accord would not make the population of Crimea leave and join Russia for their safety and lives.

Especially considering the fact that Crimea has been negotiating with Kiev since the breakup of the old Soviet Union, trying to ensure local autonomy within the Ukrainian nation. An agreement was reached in the early 1990s by former Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk and the Crimean parliament, with the latter "suspending" its plans for a referendum on independence in return for modification of the law governing Kiev’s authority over the region. In reality, the Crimeans have been trying to play the diplomatic card since May 5, 1992, when they first announced their plans for a popular vote on Crimea’s fate. The vote was held in abeyance until the coup in Kiev.

Several referendums have already been held in Transnistria, but the Kremlin does not take into account their results.
An extremely bad case of false equivalence.

When Soviets "fell" (were declared dissolved by three persons of dubious authority), plenty of people refused to recognize this dissolution (de jure it wasn't even remotely legitimate, as it violated constitution in multiple ways) and fought to restore it.

Since anti-communists secured most of key posts across the Soviet Union and managed to arm right-wing gangs in time, most such pro-Soviet uprisings had been squashed by force. However, Transnistria is one of exceptions. While it didn't manage to defeat Modovan forces, it won enough battles to secure de facto independence (and, arguably, remains part of Soviet Union).

US-aligned world, obviously, doesn't recognize it and wants it gone.

Legally the region had no right to secede and join Ukraine. Moreover, the region is more in favour of joining Russia than it is Ukraine, Russians are present in the cities, the countryside is a mix of mainly Moldovan, Ukrainian, and a few Russians.

Have you seen the people there? Hammer and Sickle flag, Lenin statues everywhere and old soviet hardware is everywhere to be found.

About the USA. You now look like a Bedouin from American films who is afraid of the CIA. The CIA is not all-powerful enough to organize mass protests here. It really was popular discontent.
:pound::pound::pound:

Holy fuck, this is the mother of all cope.

Shilling for the CIA is pretty pathetic, we've already got one, don't jump on the wagon. Considering all the evil, illegal stuff CIA has carried out around the entire world, only a fool or their puppet won't be afraid of them.

And damn, the cope is real. "CIA is not powerful to organize protests here. The Maidan Coup was really popular discontent."

This is so laughable that there's really no point in addressing it.

Still, one can try to awaken a brainwashed mind.

When Ukraine’s Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych spurned a U.S.-backed trade agreement with the European Union in favor of a $15 billion bailout from Russia, the State Department threw a tantrum.

The EU trade agreement was to open Ukraine’s economy to imports from the EU, but without a reciprocal opening of EU markets to Ukraine, it was a lopsided deal Yanukovich could not accept. The deal was approved by the post-coup government, and has only added to Ukraine’s economic woes.

The muscle for Nuland’s $5 billion coup was Oleh Tyahnybok’s neo-Nazi Svoboda Party and the shadowy new Right Sector militia. During her leaked phone call with US Ambassador Geoffrey Pratt, Nuland referred to Tyahnybok as one of the "big three" opposition leaders on the outside who could help the U.S.-backed Prime Minister Yatsenyuk on the inside. This is the same Tyanhnybok who once delivered a speech applauding Ukrainians for fighting Jews and "other scum" during World War II.

After protests in Kiev’s Euromaidan square turned into battles with police in February 2014, Yanukovych and the Western-backed opposition signed an agreement brokered by France, Germany and Poland to form a national unity government and hold new elections by the end of the year.

But that was not good enough for the neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing forces the US had helped to unleash. A violent mob led by the Right Sector militia marched on and invaded the parliament building, a scene no longer difficult for Americans to imagine. Yanukovych and his members of parliament fled for their lives.

Facing the loss of its most vital strategic naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea, Russia accepted the overwhelming result (a 97% majority, with an 83% turnout) of a referendum in which Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which it had been a part of from 1783 to 1954.

The majority Russian-speaking provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine unilaterally declared independence from Ukraine, triggering a bloody civil war between US and Russian-backed forces that still rages today.

So, just to be clear, the US State Department's head admitted with her own mouth that she and the US organized and funded this coup and were literally deciding the next leaders. They never even denied its authenticity too, and instead accused Russia of tapping.

If this isn't proof enough, nothing will be. Stop being a tool and open your eyes.

We do not like Navalny, but he is considered the leader of the Russian opposition.
And your point would be what? What real difference do you see between Putin and Navalny? Navalny is an ethnonationalist who has ambitions of annexing Ukraine and other territiories and suppressing other populations within Russia and promoting a single culture and Russian identity.

Putin is pretty much the same, except he's not a ethno-nationalist and is promoting multi-culturalism.

How is one better than the other for you?
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
Ah, I see. So, persecuting or oppressing someone is good as long as a large number of people say it should happen. It should only not be done, when like you said, 20,000 people say it shouldn't. You're not really making the point for democracy and freedom, are you?

Which, to be honest, is fine. If that's what you consider the best system for your country, that's what you should go with. What's unbearable is the hypocritical harping that we are "democratic and free" and not like the "Russian fascists". You can't have it both ways.

Moving on, you seem to be claiming that the Crimean referendum was fraudulent. Naturally, if you are making such a claim, it is only to be expected for you to provide your proof for it.

Me personally, I don't see how overthrowing the elected government by force – and subsequently threatening to ban a language spoken by the majority of Ukrainians by crazed ultra-nationalists who destroyed the Kravchuk accord would not make the population of Crimea leave and join Russia for their safety and lives.

Especially considering the fact that Crimea has been negotiating with Kiev since the breakup of the old Soviet Union, trying to ensure local autonomy within the Ukrainian nation. An agreement was reached in the early 1990s by former Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk and the Crimean parliament, with the latter "suspending" its plans for a referendum on independence in return for modification of the law governing Kiev’s authority over the region. In reality, the Crimeans have been trying to play the diplomatic card since May 5, 1992, when they first announced their plans for a popular vote on Crimea’s fate. The vote was held in abeyance until the coup in Kiev.



An extremely bad case of false equivalence.

When Soviets "fell" (were declared dissolved by three persons of dubious authority), plenty of people refused to recognize this dissolution (de jure it wasn't even remotely legitimate, as it violated constitution in multiple ways) and fought to restore it.

Since anti-communists secured most of key posts across the Soviet Union and managed to arm right-wing gangs in time, most such pro-Soviet uprisings had been squashed by force. However, Transnistria is one of exceptions. While it didn't manage to defeat Modovan forces, it won enough battles to secure de facto independence (and, arguably, remains part of Soviet Union).

US-aligned world, obviously, doesn't recognize it and wants it gone.

Legally the region had no right to secede and join Ukraine. Moreover, the region is more in favour of joining Russia than it is Ukraine, Russians are present in the cities, the countryside is a mix of mainly Moldovan, Ukrainian, and a few Russians.

Have you seen the people there? Hammer and Sickle flag, Lenin statues everywhere and old soviet hardware is everywhere to be found.



:pound::pound::pound:

Holy fuck, this is the mother of all cope.

Shilling for the CIA is pretty pathetic, we've already got one, don't jump on the wagon. Considering all the evil, illegal stuff CIA has carried out around the entire world, only a fool or their puppet won't be afraid of them.

And damn, the cope is real. "CIA is not powerful to organize protests here. The Maidan Coup was really popular discontent."

This is so laughable that there's really no point in addressing it.

Still, one can try to awaken a brainwashed mind.

When Ukraine’s Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovych spurned a U.S.-backed trade agreement with the European Union in favor of a $15 billion bailout from Russia, the State Department threw a tantrum.

The EU trade agreement was to open Ukraine’s economy to imports from the EU, but without a reciprocal opening of EU markets to Ukraine, it was a lopsided deal Yanukovich could not accept. The deal was approved by the post-coup government, and has only added to Ukraine’s economic woes.

The muscle for Nuland’s $5 billion coup was Oleh Tyahnybok’s neo-Nazi Svoboda Party and the shadowy new Right Sector militia. During her leaked phone call with US Ambassador Geoffrey Pratt, Nuland referred to Tyahnybok as one of the "big three" opposition leaders on the outside who could help the U.S.-backed Prime Minister Yatsenyuk on the inside. This is the same Tyanhnybok who once delivered a speech applauding Ukrainians for fighting Jews and "other scum" during World War II.

After protests in Kiev’s Euromaidan square turned into battles with police in February 2014, Yanukovych and the Western-backed opposition signed an agreement brokered by France, Germany and Poland to form a national unity government and hold new elections by the end of the year.

But that was not good enough for the neo-Nazis and extreme right-wing forces the US had helped to unleash. A violent mob led by the Right Sector militia marched on and invaded the parliament building, a scene no longer difficult for Americans to imagine. Yanukovych and his members of parliament fled for their lives.

Facing the loss of its most vital strategic naval base at Sevastopol in Crimea, Russia accepted the overwhelming result (a 97% majority, with an 83% turnout) of a referendum in which Crimea voted to leave Ukraine and rejoin Russia, which it had been a part of from 1783 to 1954.

The majority Russian-speaking provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk in Eastern Ukraine unilaterally declared independence from Ukraine, triggering a bloody civil war between US and Russian-backed forces that still rages today.

So, just to be clear, the US State Department's head admitted with her own mouth that she and the US organized and funded this coup and were literally deciding the next leaders. They never even denied its authenticity too, and instead accused Russia of tapping.

If this isn't proof enough, nothing will be. Stop being a tool and open your eyes.



And your point would be what? What real difference do you see between Putin and Navalny? Navalny is an ethnonationalist who has ambitions of annexing Ukraine and other territiories and suppressing other populations within Russia and promoting a single culture and Russian identity.

Putin is pretty much the same, except he's not a ethno-nationalist and is promoting multi-culturalism.

How is one better than the other for you?
Papyrus again.:hail::hail:
It will be strange if Pakistani TV channels operate in India. Medvechuk did the same.
Evidence of a "referendum" in Crimea is its non-recognition, including by your country. In December 1991, the Ukrainian SSR held a referendum in ALL regions and it was recognized by the UN.
I repeat: Yanukovych was not a pro-Russian President. He just stole.
Do you know what 5 billion is? For 7 years (2015-21) Ukraine received only 700 million dollars and this is not enough to reform the army even by 10%.
5 billion is for the entire period for the development of democracy, including for the disposal of ammunition.
This is Senator Obama in Donetsk.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
2,138
Likes
13,584
Country flag
It will be strange if Pakistani TV channels operate in India. Medvechuk did the same.
What kind of a bogus argument is that? Are you saying Medvechuk is a Russian? And by extension, he doesn't have the right to operate a TV channel?

There are dozens of TV channels in our country which openly spew anti-India nonsense. None of them have ever been shut down. So, your attempts to equivocate the two are ridiculous.

Evidence of a "referendum" in Crimea is its non-recognition, including by your country.
Lol, what? :rofl:

You don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? India was the first major country to recognize the annexation of Crimea and we abstained from a resolution on the territorial integrity of Ukraine, by saying that it was the choice of the people of Crimea.

In fact, when on 11 December 2014 Crimean Head of the Republic Sergey Aksyonov signed a memorandum of cooperation between the Republic of Crimea and "Indian business people" during his first foreign visit, your the-then President Petro Poroshenko remarked that by allowing this visit India was standing aside from "the rest of the civilization" and had "more attention to money".

Get your facts straight.

Even otherwise, mass public opinion is not really the marker of what's right or wrong. The majority of the Western countries lied about WMDs in Iraq and used that as an excuse to destabilize, loot and destroy the country. So, their credibility isn't exactly top-notch.

In December 1991, the Ukrainian SSR held a referendum in ALL regions and it was recognized by the UN.
The Crimean people themselves rejected that referendum of yours. On May 5, 1992, they first announced their plans for a popular vote on Crimea’s fate. Due to negotiations with the-then President Kravchuk, the vote was suspended until the coup in Kiev, when the crazed Nazis threatened to destroy the Crimeans and their language.

Oh yeah, and UN? The body that was created solely for the benefit of those who created it? The toothless body that has allowed every illegal US action to go unpunished? Great example.

Actually, since you consider the UN in such high regard, why don't you answer this? The UN said that the decision of the National Council for Security and Defense (NCSD) to switch off the TV channels from the sphere of influence of Viktor Medvedchuk as such that is contrary to the international human rights standards, not taken by an independent authority and against freedom of expression.

What now? Will you follow the UN's diktat and reverse this move? Or do you only follow and hold up the UN card when you need to get something done for yourself and discard them when something is not to your liking?

I repeat: Yanukovych was not a pro-Russian President. He just stole.
Yanukovych's spurning of the West's unfair deal and opting for a Russian bailout was the reason he was ousted in the illegal coup. Of course he wasn't pro-Russian, but what did that even matter? Didn't the West and its puppets overthrow him regardless? For them, anyone who isn't their servant, is pro-Russian.

Leave alone pro-Russian or pro-West. One fact that not even the most crazed Ukrainian Nazi will deny is that he was the democratically elected President. He was overthrown in an illegal coup and power was seized by US-backed ultranationalists. And you claim that you people are the "democratic side?"

5 billion is for the entire period for the development of democracy, including for the disposal of ammunition.
Hah, sure. "Development of democracy" after organizing an illegal coup and overthrowing a democratically-elected President 🤣

Seriously, you can't fool anyone any longer. The 5 billion dollars was an incentive and reward offered to the ultranationalists to carry out the coup and put the US-backed politicians into power. And the plan was thus carried out. It was a classic regime-change color revolution.

Just like when the EU offered billions of dollars of aid to Belarus if the people literally overthrew Lukashenko and placed the US-backed politician into power.

Let's talk like adults, don't insult people's intelligence by pretending that any of this has anything to do with democracy.
 

Akim

Professional
Joined
Jun 14, 2012
Messages
7,517
Likes
5,492
Country flag
What kind of a bogus argument is that? Are you saying Medvechuk is a Russian? And by extension, he doesn't have the right to operate a TV channel?

There are dozens of TV channels in our country which openly spew anti-India nonsense. None of them have ever been shut down. So, your attempts to equivocate the two are ridiculous.



Lol, what? :rofl:

You don't know what the hell you're talking about, do you? India was the first major country to recognize the annexation of Crimea and we abstained from a resolution on the territorial integrity of Ukraine, by saying that it was the choice of the people of Crimea.

In fact, when on 11 December 2014 Crimean Head of the Republic Sergey Aksyonov signed a memorandum of cooperation between the Republic of Crimea and "Indian business people" during his first foreign visit, your the-then President Petro Poroshenko remarked that by allowing this visit India was standing aside from "the rest of the civilization" and had "more attention to money".

Get your facts straight.

Even otherwise, mass public opinion is not really the marker of what's right or wrong. The majority of the Western countries lied about WMDs in Iraq and used that as an excuse to destabilize, loot and destroy the country. So, their credibility isn't exactly top-notch.



The Crimean people themselves rejected that referendum of yours. On May 5, 1992, they first announced their plans for a popular vote on Crimea’s fate. Due to negotiations with the-then President Kravchuk, the vote was suspended until the coup in Kiev, when the crazed Nazis threatened to destroy the Crimeans and their language.

Oh yeah, and UN? The body that was created solely for the benefit of those who created it? The toothless body that has allowed every illegal US action to go unpunished? Great example.

Actually, since you consider the UN in such high regard, why don't you answer this? The UN said that the decision of the National Council for Security and Defense (NCSD) to switch off the TV channels from the sphere of influence of Viktor Medvedchuk as such that is contrary to the international human rights standards, not taken by an independent authority and against freedom of expression.

What now? Will you follow the UN's diktat and reverse this move? Or do you only follow and hold up the UN card when you need to get something done for yourself and discard them when something is not to your liking?



Yanukovych's spurning of the West's unfair deal and opting for a Russian bailout was the reason he was ousted in the illegal coup. Of course he wasn't pro-Russian, but what did that even matter? Didn't the West and its puppets overthrow him regardless? For them, anyone who isn't their servant, is pro-Russian.

Leave alone pro-Russian or pro-West. One fact that not even the most crazed Ukrainian Nazi will deny is that he was the democratically elected President. He was overthrown in an illegal coup and power was seized by US-backed ultranationalists. And you claim that you people are the "democratic side?"



Hah, sure. "Development of democracy" after organizing an illegal coup and overthrowing a democratically-elected President 🤣

Seriously, you can't fool anyone any longer. The 5 billion dollars was an incentive and reward offered to the ultranationalists to carry out the coup and put the US-backed politicians into power. And the plan was thus carried out. It was a classic regime-change color revolution.

Just like when the EU offered billions of dollars of aid to Belarus if the people literally overthrew Lukashenko and placed the US-backed politician into power.

Let's talk like adults, don't insult people's intelligence by pretending that any of this has anything to do with democracy.
With those countries that recognized Crimea as Russian, Ukraine broke off diplomatic relations. India is not on that list.
 

Optimistic Nihilist

Tihar Jail
Banned
Joined
Aug 5, 2021
Messages
2,138
Likes
13,584
Country flag
With those countries that recognized Crimea as Russian, Ukraine broke off diplomatic relations. India is not on that list.
Okay, then that's probably a decision taken on your end. Because India was one of the very first countries to recognize the Crimean referendum as the people's choice and acknowledge that territory as Russian. Although our official language and stance was made in neutral words, in essence we did recognize the referendum that was held.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Articles

Top