Chinese Troops Intrude into Indian Territory in Ladakh!!!

what options India have if china doesn't pull back from ladakh?


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TrueSpirit

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The Indian borders right from the days of Lord Parshuram have the Brahmaputa river to the north. Lhasa is to the north of this river. This river belongs to us and indian armed forces must ensure that the northern bank of this river becomes our border with China. If chinese quote history for their claims, let us teach them real history.
Exactly. This makes lot of sense.

This would be on the lines of resolute French resistance against the English during the "100 years war" where they spared no stone unturned in accomplishing their mission & succeeded, eventually. They drove the British out of mainland Europe & established English Channel as the boundary between the two distinct nations, giving two hoots about all historical & hereditary claims of the English over French land. Only after the English were contained within their islands, they set sail for colonial domination across Asia, Africa & the New Lands.

Only natural geographic boundaries (like the English Channel in Europe's case or Brahmaputra in our case) should determine the frontiers & expanse of a nation, not some artificial man-made constructs like LoC, LAC etc.

All our efforts & energy should be directed towards regaining what is meant to be ours. It is going to be a slow & treacherous journey but the journey has to be started nonetheless, while we employ all means at our disposal to accomplish our desired outcome.

However, this is all theory.

Coming to reality: None of the above is going to materialize. Indian electorate & leaders of whatever political affiliations are simply not ready for it (rather, they are not up to it).
 

mahesh

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Chinese troops make fresh attempt to violate international border near Leh - The Times of India

LEH/NEW DELHI: Close on the heels of over a dozen incursions since the face off in Ladakh in April from across the Line of Actual Control (LAC), Chinese troops made a fresh attempt to violate the international border at Chumar area in northeast of Leh on July 20 but were forced back by Indian troops.

The 'assertive posturing' by the Chinese troops, who had climbed a small mountain where they faced Indian troops, has been flashed to all units along the China-India border in the area to keep a strict vigil on their movement, official sources said.

Chinese troops claimed it was their territory and they were headed towards to Tible area, five kilometres deep into the Indian territory.

Chumar, which is located 300 kms from Leh, is the last town after which Himachal Pradesh starts. This area also has the distinction of having a defined International Border with China.

Chinese troops, who were confronted almost bang on the border by alert army and ITBP troops, said they needed to follow the orders PLA headquarters and conduct some photography in Tible area.

However, after a usual face-off drill, the Chinese troops who had to walk down a long stretch to reach Chumar, sought assistance in getting some food as they had run out of their stock, the sources said.

While no food was provided as the troops did not carry it with them, some cans of juices were given to the PLA soldiers, the sources said, adding the Chinese troops then retreated into their area.

All Indian units located along the LAC have been asked to maintain a tight vigil in their Area of Responsibilities (AOR) and launch frequent patrols to the higher reaches, the sources said.

Chumar has seen a number of incursion incidents in the recent past including an incident on June 17 where Chinese troops took away an Army surveillance camera meant for keeping an eye on the PLA troops patrolling there.



This is the same area where Chinese troops triggered tensions in April smashing some bunkers besides cutting wires of cameras installed at the border post.

Chumar has been an issue for China which claims it to be its own territory and have been frequenting it with helicopter incursions almost every year. Last year, it dropped some of the soldiers of PLA in this region and dismantled the makeshift storage tents of the Army and ITBP.

This area is not accessible from the Chinese side whereas the Indian side have a road almost to the last point on which the army can carry a load upto nine tonnes
 

Blackwater

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Chinese Troops Intrude into Indian Territory in Ladakh!!!


it can be blessing in disguise . hope this can give hard pressure to dhoti walas politicians and safari suit wale sarkari babus. and speeden up procurement processes
 

arnabmit

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Why India needs to be more wary of China after the Ladakh incursion

SOURCE: FIRST POST

Till a few weeks back, India's top diplomats used to confess that they had no idea why the Chinese did what they did in the Depsang Valley of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir – a 19-km-deep incursion into the Indian side of the undemarcated and unsettled Line of Actual Control (LAC) that began on 16 April and was ended only three weeks later, with troops from both sides returning to their previously held positions.

Now some fog has been lifted from this episode and Indian diplomats claim to be more aware of the dynamics behind China's puzzling move.

This writer is privy to the thoughts of some key Indian interlocutors with China on the Depsang incident specifically, and the way India-China boundary dispute talks are panning out. At the same time this writer is constrained to not disclose the identity of these Indian interlocutors as this was a prime conditionality laid down by them for sharing their views off-record.

The latest assessment of India's China observers is that the Depsang incident was not pre-meditated and that neither the Chinese Communist Party nor the higher echelons of the Chinese government were behind it. The Indian government also believes that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China was not charting a course independent of the Chinese Communist Party or the Chinese government, though there have been reports from Western countries about the PLA acting in an unusually more autonomous fashion.

At a time when some Western reports have even wondered about the real motives behind the aggressive intents of PLA, the Indian establishment doesn't seem to buy that argument. India believes that some local commanders of the PLA got their timing all wrong when they pitched tents deep inside the Depsang Valley, little realizing that their Premier Li Keqiang was to visit India as the first destination of his first official foreign tour. They blame it on 'poor communication' within the Chinese set up, given the fact that Ladakh, much closer to New Delhi, is actually far off from Beijing!

In other words, the latest Indian assessment echoes "official" formulations emanating from Beijing that the Depsag incident was "an isolated" incident. This implies that India has virtually bought the Chinese explanations for the Depsang incident though some half a dozen incursions were choreographed by the Chinese troops in the same sector – Chumar – since the issue was peacefully resolved without a single gunshot having been fired from either side.

This is a dangerous game by China and India will do well to apply the age-old adage of "trust, but verify" before swallowing the Chinese bait, hook, line and sinker.

The Indian Army is skeptical and apprehensive of the military designs of China. But there is no magic wand that India can wield to exorcise the ghost of China from its national security template. The Indian soldiers look up to their diplomats for keeping the Dragon quiet.

So far, the Indian diplomats appear to have acquitted themselves well. They recount the Depsang incident in this context and insist that whatever has appeared in the Indian media – that India knuckled under the Chinese pressure and that India danced to the PLA tunes to "persuade" the Chinese to lift their Depsang incursion – are all wrong. They insist that nothing was done in Depsang that lowered India's dignity one bit or compromised the Indian national security by an iota.

In fact, the Indian government's China policy-makers take the battle right into the camp of the skeptics who remind them thus: "Look, China is known to spring surprises!" The response of India's China policy czars is pithy and it is this: "True, the Chinese are known to spring surprises; but then why do you think that the Indian Army cannot spring a surprise on China?"

This is a bold, and welcome, belief. The only thing is that the Indian diplomacy needs to walk its talk.

Since the Depsang incursion – and by the way, the Indian diplomats refrain from using the word 'incursion' and instead choose to call it as an 'incident' – the Chinese troops have launched more than half a dozen incursions into the Indian territory. These incursions have repeatedly happened in the same Chumar sector of Ladakh, plus in other states like Sikkim, Uttarakhand and even in Himachal Pradesh.

Why Chumar? The reason is simple: this is one sector of Ladakh where the Indian military enjoys a strategic leverage over China.

But then India is not the only nation to find itself at the end of the stick of Chinese aggressive maneuverings. Japan, Vietnam and Philippines are also trying to read the Chinese tea leaves in their own humble ways.

Some years ago the Japanese Prime Minister had famously asked Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Tokyo during their summit meeting as to how India deals with China.

On 1 August, 2013, the Philippines ambassador in New Delhi met a key Indian diplomat in the South Block and asked him the same question!

Though it is not known what the Indian diplomat told the Philippines envoy and whether his remedy was found to be of any use, the episode is demonstrative of the fact that virtually the entire world is bamboozled by a resurgent China and does not find the Chinese rise 'peaceful', as repeatedly proclaimed by the Chinese officials.

It also conveys that powers like Japan and Philippines believe that the Indians are better-off than them in dealing with China and are keen to soak in on India's experience of 'handling' China.

Only time can tell how far the world's belief in India's ability of dealing with China is correct! But the Indian government will do well not to lower its guard vis a vis China. After all, the recently cleared $ 11 billion, 50,000-men strong China-specific Mountain Strike Corps would take a minimum of six to seven years to become functional, if the orders were to be issued today, and India has to factor in the Chinese challenge in the immediate future.

But that is a different story.
 

t_co

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Why India needs to be more wary of China after the Ladakh incursion

SOURCE: FIRST POST

Till a few weeks back, India's top diplomats used to confess that they had no idea why the Chinese did what they did in the Depsang Valley of Ladakh in Jammu and Kashmir – a 19-km-deep incursion into the Indian side of the undemarcated and unsettled Line of Actual Control (LAC) that began on 16 April and was ended only three weeks later, with troops from both sides returning to their previously held positions.

Now some fog has been lifted from this episode and Indian diplomats claim to be more aware of the dynamics behind China's puzzling move.

This writer is privy to the thoughts of some key Indian interlocutors with China on the Depsang incident specifically, and the way India-China boundary dispute talks are panning out. At the same time this writer is constrained to not disclose the identity of these Indian interlocutors as this was a prime conditionality laid down by them for sharing their views off-record.

The latest assessment of India's China observers is that the Depsang incident was not pre-meditated and that neither the Chinese Communist Party nor the higher echelons of the Chinese government were behind it. The Indian government also believes that the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China was not charting a course independent of the Chinese Communist Party or the Chinese government, though there have been reports from Western countries about the PLA acting in an unusually more autonomous fashion.

At a time when some Western reports have even wondered about the real motives behind the aggressive intents of PLA, the Indian establishment doesn't seem to buy that argument. India believes that some local commanders of the PLA got their timing all wrong when they pitched tents deep inside the Depsang Valley, little realizing that their Premier Li Keqiang was to visit India as the first destination of his first official foreign tour. They blame it on 'poor communication' within the Chinese set up, given the fact that Ladakh, much closer to New Delhi, is actually far off from Beijing!

In other words, the latest Indian assessment echoes "official" formulations emanating from Beijing that the Depsag incident was "an isolated" incident. This implies that India has virtually bought the Chinese explanations for the Depsang incident though some half a dozen incursions were choreographed by the Chinese troops in the same sector – Chumar – since the issue was peacefully resolved without a single gunshot having been fired from either side.

This is a dangerous game by China and India will do well to apply the age-old adage of "trust, but verify" before swallowing the Chinese bait, hook, line and sinker.

The Indian Army is skeptical and apprehensive of the military designs of China. But there is no magic wand that India can wield to exorcise the ghost of China from its national security template. The Indian soldiers look up to their diplomats for keeping the Dragon quiet.

So far, the Indian diplomats appear to have acquitted themselves well. They recount the Depsang incident in this context and insist that whatever has appeared in the Indian media – that India knuckled under the Chinese pressure and that India danced to the PLA tunes to "persuade" the Chinese to lift their Depsang incursion – are all wrong. They insist that nothing was done in Depsang that lowered India's dignity one bit or compromised the Indian national security by an iota.

In fact, the Indian government's China policy-makers take the battle right into the camp of the skeptics who remind them thus: "Look, China is known to spring surprises!" The response of India's China policy czars is pithy and it is this: "True, the Chinese are known to spring surprises; but then why do you think that the Indian Army cannot spring a surprise on China?"

This is a bold, and welcome, belief. The only thing is that the Indian diplomacy needs to walk its talk.

Since the Depsang incursion – and by the way, the Indian diplomats refrain from using the word 'incursion' and instead choose to call it as an 'incident' – the Chinese troops have launched more than half a dozen incursions into the Indian territory. These incursions have repeatedly happened in the same Chumar sector of Ladakh, plus in other states like Sikkim, Uttarakhand and even in Himachal Pradesh.

Why Chumar? The reason is simple: this is one sector of Ladakh where the Indian military enjoys a strategic leverage over China.

But then India is not the only nation to find itself at the end of the stick of Chinese aggressive maneuverings. Japan, Vietnam and Philippines are also trying to read the Chinese tea leaves in their own humble ways.

Some years ago the Japanese Prime Minister had famously asked Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in Tokyo during their summit meeting as to how India deals with China.

On 1 August, 2013, the Philippines ambassador in New Delhi met a key Indian diplomat in the South Block and asked him the same question!

Though it is not known what the Indian diplomat told the Philippines envoy and whether his remedy was found to be of any use, the episode is demonstrative of the fact that virtually the entire world is bamboozled by a resurgent China and does not find the Chinese rise 'peaceful', as repeatedly proclaimed by the Chinese officials.

It also conveys that powers like Japan and Philippines believe that the Indians are better-off than them in dealing with China and are keen to soak in on India's experience of 'handling' China.

Only time can tell how far the world's belief in India's ability of dealing with China is correct! But the Indian government will do well not to lower its guard vis a vis China. After all, the recently cleared $ 11 billion, 50,000-men strong China-specific Mountain Strike Corps would take a minimum of six to seven years to become functional, if the orders were to be issued today, and India has to factor in the Chinese challenge in the immediate future.

But that is a different story.
One could take this article at face value, or one could read it as Indian diplomats simply covering their own asses (and that of Khurshid).
 

W.G.Ewald

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One could take this article at face value, or one could read it as Indian diplomats simply covering their own asses (and that of Khurshid).
Article relates "Indian establishment" making excuses (their poor communication) for the Chinese, so the latter seems more likely.
 

ladder

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Chinese army refuses to vacate Arunachal
The face-off between the Indian Army and the People's Liberation Army (PLA) of China continued in Chaglagam sector of Arunachal Pradesh as Chinese troops refused to budge from the occupied position approximately 30 km inside the Indian territory.

Sources said the Indian side decided not to escalate the tension and efforts were on for a flag meeting between the local commanders to resolve the differences.

"Chinese troops had put up tents on Tuesday night at the occupied position, but it was removed on Wednesday morning. Efforts are on to end the standoff between the two sides. Currently, 9 JAK rifles is face to face with Chinese troops in Chaglagam sector," sources said.

"There were several intrusions in the past also when Chinese used to come and put some signs inside our territory before departure. But this time they are showing more aggression and refuse to vacate the occupied position despite official drill and aerial recce by Dy GoC and a brigadier," he said.

Although, there have been several instances of Chinese incursions in the recent past, the Centre had said that the two sides were committed to maintain peace and tranquillity along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in the Indo-China border areas, pending a final settlement of the boundary question.

"The Centre keeps a constant watch on all developments having a bearing on India's security and takes all necessary measures to safeguard it," the MEA said.
Chinese army refuses to vacate Arunachal - The New Indian Express
 

Vishwarupa

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Why so many intrusions by both pakis & chinese? there should be some strategy by both the parties to bully India. Is it that both pakistan & chinese are expecting some major internal problems so they want to divert their public anger towards India.
 

Dinesh_Kumar

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Maybe they have a good idea that we are weak at the moment................good time to wrangle concessions and put us in our place.........I wish people who matter realized just how dangerous this is for us as a country...............some confidence building measures for Indian Public are good now.....
Why so many intrusions by both ......
 

hit&run

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Maybe they have a good idea that we are weak at the moment................good time to wrangle concessions and put us in our place.........I wish people who matter realized just how dangerous this is for us as a country...............some confidence building measures for Indian Public are good now.....
It is a sino-pak misadventure and one has to wait to know what their nefarious plans are.

I hope GoI and InA will explain this to people of India and expose these both thugs in public; giving befitting answer to both as well.
 

arnabmit

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India steps up boat patrols on Ladakh lake after Chinese intrusions | idrw.org
SOURCE: DAILY MAIL



The Pangong Tso Lake is now witnessing a marked change in India's approach towards China, with New Delhi upping the ante by carrying out regular boat patrols in the water body in Ladakh where the Chinese had earlier resorted to aggressive intrusions.

In a series of protests over the past few weeks, Beijing has complained that the Indian Army was resorting to aggressive patrols – coming too close to the Chinese boats and engaging them.

Besides handing over protest notes at the border personnel meeting, the Chinese have also conveyed the message at diplomatic level.

The Chinese protests emanated following their assessment that the Indian Army's newly-acquired American patrol boats have considerably reduced their tactical advantage on the strategic lake, located at 14,500ft in Ladakh, official sources said.

The 135km-long Pangong Tso Lake, which is nestled between India and China, had previously become a playing field for the Chinese PLA's dominance on the waterways.

It became a potential crisis point in 1999 when Beijing built a five-km permanent track into the Indian territory along the lake, as India was engaged with Pakistan in the Kargil war.

But now the sleek high-speed patrol boats from the US have become an irritant for China. More than a dozen boats procured by the Indian Army have been deployed on the lake, one third of whose area falls in India and the remaining portion in China.

The vessels, measuring 37ft long and 10ft wide, have a speed of 40 knots and come with GPS and night vision devices. Equipped with machine guns, the new Indian boats can carry 10 soldiers at a time.

Earlier, the Indian Army operated close to a dozen vintage boats that were no match to the superior Chinese patrol boats. The Indian patrols were chased away by their better-equipped Chinese counterparts.

In 2000, the Chinese had rammed into Indian patrol boats in the area and over 20 Chinese boats had made a 10km deep incursion on the Indian side of the lake in April this year.

China had a stronger military presence on the lake, and continued with its aggressive patrolling to stake a claim on the water body.

The Chinese operate close to 22 armed patrol boats – mostly smaller high-speed vessels with capacity for five to seven soldiers – on the lake. But the Indian response is now changing the rules of the game. The sources said the Chinese are irked by the fact that Indian patrols are now giving a fitting response to them by catching up with the Chinese boats if they enter the Indian side.

Although the change in approach is localised, it marks a shift in India's approach, which has traditionally been a cautious one when it came to the eastern neighbour.

New Delhi has earlier buckled down on many instances under the Chinese pressure on the 4,057-km long Line of Actual Control (LAC).
 

Kunal Biswas

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They were purchased sometime back and operational now, The masala news is a PR method in election time ..

If they really want to make news, publish the 20km land that we lost is taken back ..
 

Iceman2012

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Chinese are using the Sun Tzu's strategy - Who blinks first"¦"¦"¦.India should have a hawkish approach"¦"¦"¦.Lets see what they retaliate"¦"¦"¦..If we are not more assertive, they will slowly take a small bit at a time"¦"¦"¦"¦If we follow the chinese logic of ancient historical borders, then Pakistan, Afghnaistan, parts of iran, Burma and Sri Lanka should be parts of India as they were under the Mauryan empire over 2000 years back (long before there was a unified chinese empire)
 

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the Army headquarters insisted there was no such incident in that area.
please read the sentence following that , and indeed the following paragraphs, if you would ?

It was not immediately known whether the Chinese troops still remained in the Indian territory or have left.

there are implications especially in the paragraphs

quote; The reports about the Chinese camp in the area have come soon after PLA troops apprehended five Indian nationals in the Chumar area and took them to their camp across the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in an apparent bid to stake their claim on the area...(end of quote:)

also Antony's warning

my comment : china doesnt do things at one go - especially in ladakh area ,
they go inch at a time .....this might be first such
 
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Deccani

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please read the sentence following that , and indeed the following paragraphs, if you would ?

It was not immediately known whether the Chinese troops still remained in the Indian territory or have left.

there are implications especially in the paragraphs
Ok .. reading

Around 20-22 Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers had last week pitched around 8-10 tents in the west of Chepzi in Ladakh area, the sources said.

However, the Army headquarters insisted there was no such incident in that area.

It was not immediately known whether the Chinese troops still remained in the Indian territory or have left.

The Army had held a flag meeting with the Chinese side on Saturday.


quote; The reports about the Chinese camp in the area have come soon after PLA troops apprehended five Indian nationals in the Chumar area and took them to their camp across the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in an apparent bid to stake their claim on the area...(end of quote:)
Chepzi is close to Chumar area, which has been witness to a large number of incursions by the Chinese side in the last one year.

In April, Chinese troops had entered 19km inside Indian territory in the Daulat Beg Oldi sector and left the place only after long negotiations and a series of flag meetings between the two sides.

The reports about the Chinese camp in the area have come soon after PLA troops apprehended five Indian nationals in the Chumar area and took them to their camp across the Line of Actual Control (LAC) in an apparent bid to stake their claim on the area.


army has denied any such incident


also Antony's warning
Defence minister AK Antony had recently warned that the new border pact does not guarantee that nothing will happen in these areas in future.

Border Defence Cooperation Agreement between India and China was signed on October 23, 2013
Border Defence Cooperation Agreement between India and China: full text | NDTV.com

This statement was before 6 days
Dec 16, 2013
http://www.firstpost.com/india/dont...-china-border-issues-says-antony-1288905.html




my comment : china doesnt do things at one go - especially in ladakh area ,
they go inch at a time .....this might be first such
Chinese and Indian Governments both are working to solve the border dispute but here all should stop expecting miracles as Defence minister has said .
 
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Kunal Biswas

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@Deccani, Your posts are well placed and well designed, you putting them real nice ..

I want to know who from Army said following details, Is that from public relation officials or from field commanders ?
 
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