Chinese Regional Jets & Airliners

[MiG-29SMT]

I disagree with you. I find his posts to be highly informative and he posts quality rebuttals to your inane posts.

the problem of these people is they do not care to see technical aspects, the E-195 for example is very efficient in fuel bur per 100 kilometers but it carries less fuel than A-220 since it is narrower and the A-220 is very low drag

Infographic - Will the Airbus A220 be the narrow-body aircraft of tomorrow? - Flight-Report

Strategic positioning, reception among airlines, passenger experience: Flight-Report dives into the specificities of the Airbus A220.

blog.flight-report.com

C-919 is a modern aircraft but is not as capable as A-220 or A-321, true China has advance but the Chinese give subsidies by buying their jets is not airliners freely buying their jets but subsidies, the problem of tha philosophy it only last as long as the chinese government has money, in Latin America we know it, you need customers Embraer understand it but now even Embraer can not compete well with A-220

 

[rockdog]

The Chinese civilian aircraft industry is growing fast with both the ARJ-21 and C919 -- and C929 coming after that. Together with the engines CJ1000/2000/500, it is already the third largest in the world (Brazil has no engine programs.)

C919 is aiming for 150 planes a month by end of decade. So with ARJ-21 and C929, we can see over 200 jet liners coming off COMAC lines every month by 2030. And it could sustain that even without exporting any aircraft since the domestic market needs over 9000 airliners.

New variant of ARJ21, the Cargo type is on now. China's eCommerce related logstics is very profitable, the ARJ21 cargo is good option.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Repost from previous:

View attachment 208886

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Login required | Planespotters.net

www.planespotters.net

Check how many customers has E-195 now tell me how many are brazilians and tell me how many are owned by the Brazilian government, you are a guy who lies to your self, will china suceed? maybe if and I say If they make something truely competitive but history shown that when Il-96 stop recieving subsdies and the Russian airliners were free to buy from non russian aircraft makers this happened

and believe me Boeing and Airbus will try to do the same and China is doing a Soviet style aircraft industry

 

[SexyChineseLady]

New variant of ARJ21, the Cargo type is on now. China's eCommerce related logstics is very profitable, the ARJ21 cargo is good option.

View attachment 208890

View attachment 208891

Yes, I posted that and the Business Jet variant of the ARJ-21 earlier in the thread.

This is the medical one:

Once the CJ500 engine is completed and installed, there could military variants too!

 

[MiG-29SMT]

New variant of ARJ21, the Cargo type is on now. China's eCommerce related logstics is very profitable, the ARJ21 cargo is good option.

View attachment 208890

View attachment 208891

is not from brazil not owned by the Brazilian government

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Yes, I posted that and the Business Jet variant of the ARJ-21 earlier in the thread.

This is the medical one:

Once the CJ500 engine is completed and installed, there could military variants too!

nice pictures but you never said the fuel burn per 100km or by passanger obviously propaganda works for stupid people but hiding facts is something propagandist pretend to forget he chinese not sexy lady

 

[rockdog]

Login required | Planespotters.net

www.planespotters.net

Check how many customers has E-195 now tell me how many are brazilians and tell me h9ow many are owned by the Brazilian government, yu are a guy who lies to your self, will china suceed maybe if and I say If they make something truely competitive but hitory shown that when Il-96 stop recieving subsdies and the Russian airliners were free to buy from non russian aircraft makers this happened


View attachment 208892


View attachment 208893

and believe me Boeing and Airbus will try to do the same and China is doing a Soviet style aircraft industry

Don't be naive, it's politics. As an amigo you knew how Western especially Uncle Sam tried to banana republic your nations.

Chinese government subsidied Solar Energy industry for 15 yrs, EV for 10 yrs, now they are all 50%+ share in the world and profitble, let's see for avation in next 2 decades. You don't subsidy most of ur industries just because you have weak government and your government counldn't even fight Narcos, the Embraer is just the survived few, the Brazil's per GDP is even much lower than 10 yrs ago.

For Brazil, it's getting more and more de-industrilized:

Rise and fall of Brazilian industry: what can we learn from China?

https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiunOfG7av_AhW7iVYBHXYZC6IQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fseer.ufs.br%2Findex.php%2Ftempopresente%2Farticle%2Fview%2F12503%2F9666&usg=AOvVaw3hBMzFkTJvMN0ID3H5OjUW

For government subsidies:

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

The United States and the European Union on Wednesday announced a truce in their epic 17-year-old transatlantic battle over aircraft subsidies, hitting the pause button on the world's largest corporate trade dispute.

www.reuters.com

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

The U.S. Commerce Department has confirmed disputed Bombardier jets, purchased by Delta, are subject to duties of 300 percent.

www.cnbc.com

Any explaination?

 

[rockdog]

View attachment 208894

is not from brazil not owned by the Brazilian government

View attachment 208895

Of course it's not owened by Brazilian government. The Brazil industry is almsot destroyed in last ten yrs:


In China, Lula seeks help to build back Brazilian industry

Brazil’s national statistics institute said in July 2022 that Brazil had lost 1 million industrial jobs over the prior decade, a decline of 11.6%. The institute said in 2021 that the country’s industrial sector represented 18.9% of Brazil’s GDP, down from 38% three decades earlier.

In China, Lula seeks help to build back Brazilian industry

The trip by Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva to Beijing has made clear he is counting on China to help reinvigorate the South American nation’s ailing industrial sector. He's hoping that China can help pick up the slack of exiting U.S. companies. After Lula met Friday with China’s...

apnews.com

In China, Lula Seeks Help Building Back Brazilian Industry

In China, Lula Seeks Help Building Back Brazilian Industry

President hoping for more investments from China to replace U.S. companies that have left Brazil

www.voanews.com

Wooow, two news agencies, similar titiles, similar contents!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is the economics of the C919 (and ARJ-21 and C929):

Boeing Forecasts China’s Commercial Fleet Will More than Double in Next 20 Years, Fueled by Strong Passenger and Cargo Demand

BEIJING, Oct. 27, 2021 — Boeing today announced its 2022 Commercial Market Outlook (CMO) for China, forecasting that the country’s growing economy will see its commercial airplane fleet more...

boeing.mediaroom.com

Boeing predicts that demand for air travel and air freight will continue to trend upwards through 2041, with the country’s commercial fleet growing from around 3,900 airplanes to more than 9,600 through 2041.

China will require 8,485 new airplanes valued at $1.5 trillion to serve passengers and trade.

Even if COMAC never sell a single plane overseas, it will be the third largest aircraft manufacturer on earth. If China makes Chinese airlines buy all 8000 new airliners domestically then it could conceivably reach number two in the world passing Boeing. Boeing delivered about 8000 aircraft from 1998 to 2021:

Boeing - aircraft deliveries 1998-2021 | Statista

Deliveries at Boeing increased more than twofold between 2020 and 2021.

www.statista.com

But COMAC in actuality can never build enough planes to supply the entire Chinese market so there will always be a place for at least one of the duopoly.

With a market this big, COMAC is economically secure just from internal demand alone. But once their airliners build up a record in China, there would undoubtedly be opportunities outside China just like in HSR.

 

[rockdog]

This is the economics of the C919 (and ARJ-21 and C929):

Boeing Forecasts China’s Commercial Fleet Will More than Double in Next 20 Years, Fueled by Strong Passenger and Cargo Demand

BEIJING, Oct. 27, 2021 — Boeing today announced its 2022 Commercial Market Outlook (CMO) for China, forecasting that the country’s growing economy will see its commercial airplane fleet more...

boeing.mediaroom.com

Boeing predicts that demand for air travel and air freight will continue to trend upwards through 2041, with the country’s commercial fleet growing from around 3,900 airplanes to more than 9,600 through 2041.

China will require 8,485 new airplanes valued at $1.5 trillion to serve passengers and trade.

Even if COMAC never sell a single plane overseas, it will be the third largest aircraft manufacturer on earth. If China makes Chinese airlines buy all 8000 new airliners domestically then it could conceivably reach number two in the world passing Boeing. Boeing delivered about 8000 aircraft from 1998 to 2021:

Boeing - aircraft deliveries 1998-2021 | Statista

Deliveries at Boeing increased more than twofold between 2020 and 2021.

www.statista.com

But COMAC in actuality can never build enough planes to supply the entire Chinese market so there will always be a place for at least one of the duopoly.

With a market this big, COMAC is economically secure just from internal demand alone. But once their airliners build up a record in China, there would undoubtedly be opportunities outside China just like in HSR.

For building the big plane benefits whole supply chains domestically, you need two things:


1. Strong government to provide support financially at 1st stage. If a government even surrendered to drug dealers, then such nation doesn't deserve any homegrown hi tech industry.


2. Political independence. If the government is a Yes Man to westerners, it will never have determination to build big project. Westerner Leader like Trump theated closed to border, the nation just quickly waved the white flag.

Currently only China and India have these two strengths to build big plane, China just did as first, India may comes later.

 

[Azaad]

Aviation geek trekked to China to ride the C919!

Aah !! China's white wumaos are on parade. Pls note @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon ; @srvester ; @SKC ; @Blademaster

 

[jai jaganath]

For building the big plane benefits whole supply chains domestically, you need two things:


1. Strong government to provide support financially at 1st stage. If a government even surrendered to drug dealers, then such nation doesn't deserve any homegrown hi tech industry.


2. Political independence. If the government is a Yes Man to westerners, it will never have determination to build big project. Westerner Leader like Trump theated closed to border, the nation just quickly waved the white flag.

Currently only China and India have these two strengths to build big plane, China just did as first, India may comes later.

India entering into commercial aircrafts is as good dreams
We don't have necessary supply chain for building those airliners as in case of c919 it has many foreign components but that doesn’t take the credit from the nation slowly those parts will be replaced by chinese ones as these aircrafts are very safety intensive so things has to be slow and productive so I understand why Chinese didn't go head on unlike military counterparts
Coming back to topic why China was able to do it bcoz it has existing supply chain and ecosystem due to Airbus plant which has helped China along in terms of experience, western supply chain and etc.
We currently don't possess any such assembly plant so supply chain is way behind
Coming to govt and funding we have NAL which has taken responsibility to built saras mk1 and mk2, RTA but except saras 1 nothing is built
All other projects are running in various stages but nothing materializing not even saras mk2 we are far in case of RTA if my info is right
These reviews meetings committees are giving no fruit
Moreover NAL comes under pmo but it's inefficiency is prime example for the world how not to operate
Again I repeat I have written as per info I have if any changes happy to correct

 

[jai jaganath]

Aah !! China's white wumaos are on parade. Pls note @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon ; @srvester ; @SKC ; @Blademaster

These are marketing strategies by ccp for promotion of the aircrafts that is hire aviation influences and geeks by either paying them or incentive them in some manner

 

[Azaad]

These are marketing strategies by ccp for promotion of the aircrafts that is hire aviation influences and geeks by either paying them or incentive them in some manner

I'm surprised you didn't like that post . How come ?

 

[Azaad]

India entering into commercial aircrafts is as good dreams
We don't have necessary supply chain for building those airliners as in case of c919 it has many foreign components but that doesn’t take the credit from the nation slowly those parts will be replaced by chinese ones as these aircrafts are very safety intensive so things has to be slow and productive so I understand why Chinese didn't go head on unlike military counterparts
Coming back to topic why China was able to do it bcoz it has existing supply chain and ecosystem due to Airbus plant which has helped China along in terms of experience, western supply chain and etc.
We currently don't possess any such assembly plant so supply chain is way behind
Coming to govt and funding we have NAL which has taken responsibility to built saras mk1 and mk2, RTA but except saras 1 nothing is built
All other projects are running in various stages but nothing materializing not even saras mk2 we are far in case of RTA if my info is right
These reviews meetings committees are giving no fruit
Moreover NAL comes under pmo but it's inefficiency is prime example for the world how not to operate
Again I repeat I have written as per info I have if any changes happy to correct

Check out for videos on Saras Mk-2 & budget sought by NAL for development of RTA along with T/L around the time of AeroIndia 2023. I'm willing to bet you'd know more about the Chinese Civilian aerospace ecosystem than you'd do about corresponding developments in the Indian aerospace ecosystem.

And the best part is for your youthful age you're doing nothing to correct yourself too by looking around & trying to gain more knowledge or expertise on the matter except issue statements full of false humility.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Don't be naive, it's politics. As an amigo you knew how Western especially Uncle Sam tried to banana republic your nations.

Chinese government subsidied Solar Energy industry for 15 yrs, EV for 10 yrs, now they are all 50%+ share in the world and profitble, let's see for avation in next 2 decades. You don't subsidy most of ur industries just because you have weak government and your government counldn't even fight Narcos, the Embraer is just the survived few, the Brazil's per GDP is even much lower than 10 yrs ago.

For Brazil, it's getting more and more de-industrilized:

Rise and fall of Brazilian industry: what can we learn from China?

https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiunOfG7av_AhW7iVYBHXYZC6IQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fseer.ufs.br%2Findex.php%2Ftempopresente%2Farticle%2Fview%2F12503%2F9666&usg=AOvVaw3hBMzFkTJvMN0ID3H5OjUW

For government subsidies:

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

The United States and the European Union on Wednesday announced a truce in their epic 17-year-old transatlantic battle over aircraft subsidies, hitting the pause button on the world's largest corporate trade dispute.

www.reuters.com

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

The U.S. Commerce Department has confirmed disputed Bombardier jets, purchased by Delta, are subject to duties of 300 percent.

www.cnbc.com

Any explaination?

you still remain silenced about fuel burn per 100km by ARJ-21 and went into your crusade of racism calling us banana republics. wow the chinese thinks he is a first world nation, of course you live in the USA not China

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Of course it's not owened by Brazilian government. The Brazil industry is almsot destroyed in last ten yrs:


In China, Lula seeks help to build back Brazilian industry

Brazil’s national statistics institute said in July 2022 that Brazil had lost 1 million industrial jobs over the prior decade, a decline of 11.6%. The institute said in 2021 that the country’s industrial sector represented 18.9% of Brazil’s GDP, down from 38% three decades earlier.

In China, Lula seeks help to build back Brazilian industry

The trip by Brazil’s President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva to Beijing has made clear he is counting on China to help reinvigorate the South American nation’s ailing industrial sector. He's hoping that China can help pick up the slack of exiting U.S. companies. After Lula met Friday with China’s...

apnews.com

In China, Lula Seeks Help Building Back Brazilian Industry

In China, Lula Seeks Help Building Back Brazilian Industry

President hoping for more investments from China to replace U.S. companies that have left Brazil

www.voanews.com

Wooow, two news agencies, similar titiles, similar contents!

trying to avoid the reality, Embraer has the network and quality to be bought outside Brazil let us see and show me the crap ARJ-21 has been doing the same an aircraft no body will buy because is heavier than E-195, has the same engines, and has obsolete aerodynamics

Lot has no ARJ-21 crap

KLM has no crap ARJ-21

Alitalia has no ARJ-21 because its crap

Wideree has no crap of ARJ-21

British Airways has no crap ARJ-21 because simply E-195 has better fuel burn per seat

 

[MiG-29SMT]

India entering into commercial aircrafts is as good dreams
We don't have necessary supply chain for building those airliners as in case of c919 it has many foreign components but that doesn’t take the credit from the nation slowly those parts will be replaced by chinese ones as these aircrafts are very safety intensive so things has to be slow and productive so I understand why Chinese didn't go head on unlike military counterparts
Coming back to topic why China was able to do it bcoz it has existing supply chain and ecosystem due to Airbus plant which has helped China along in terms of experience, western supply chain and etc.
We currently don't possess any such assembly plant so supply chain is way behind
Coming to govt and funding we have NAL which has taken responsibility to built saras mk1 and mk2, RTA but except saras 1 nothing is built
All other projects are running in various stages but nothing materializing not even saras mk2 we are far in case of RTA if my info is right
These reviews meetings committees are giving no fruit
Moreover NAL comes under pmo but it's inefficiency is prime example for the world how not to operate
Again I repeat I have written as per info I have if any changes happy to correct

you have chinese propaganda in your head.

India has a huge market, the fact Indian airliners buy hundreds of aircraft shows it.

Tata-owned Air India to acquire 250 Airbus aircraft

• A350 aircraft of choice for Air India’s renaissance in long haul travel
• A320 Family to be the cornerstone of Air India’s domestic and regional fleet

Mumbai, 14 February 2023 – The Tata Group-owned Air India has announced its commitment to order 250 Airbus aircraft to boost its domestic and international operations. The commitment includes 140 A320neo and 70 A321neo single-aisle aircraft as well as 34 A350-1000 and six A350-900 wide-body jets that will mark a new era for the country as the all-new, long-range aircraft celebrates its debut in the Indian market.

https://www.airbus.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/2023-02-tata-owned-air-india-to-acquire-250-airbus-aircraft

Aerospace is money, India can have airlines however design a 100% aircraft is too expensive.

By the way China does not build A-320s they just assemble them, some components might be made in China but C919 shows you is mostly the fuselage shell,

Bombardier announced that it will maximize aerospace parts manufacturing operations at its facilities in Querétaro, Mexico. The decision positions the Aztec country as a strategic resource in its global projects, highlighting the highly qualified workforce and first class technological capabilities that exist in its facilities.

The firm manufactures aeronautical components and complex systems for the Challenger and Global business jets in Querétaro, including the rear fuselage of the Global 7500, Bombardier’s current flagship aircraft. Components were also manufactured for the Learjet 85, the CRJ NextGen family and the Q400 NextGen.

- Advertisement -
“We are very pleased with the workforce Bombardier has in Mexico because they have been able to do quality work, which has made it possible to have high-end aircraft, such as the Global 7500,” emphasized Eric Martel, CEO of Bombardier.

Several organizations have boosted Mexico’s aerospace industry, including the Aeronautical University of Querétaro (UNCAQ), the Mexican Federation of the Aerospace Industry (FEMIA) and the Aerocluster of Querétaro (ACQ).

Bombardier to increase aerospace parts production in Mexico

Bombardier announced that it will maximize aerospace parts manufacturing operations at its facilities in Querétaro, Mexico. The decision positions the Aztec co

www.aviacionline.com

Even Mexico has manufacturing but the problem is not making the aircraft it is a very expensive endevour thus Mexico will not build large aircraft they are out of our market capabilities, we might develop in the next 15 years perhaps a business jet but I can assure you they will have western parts, India has a larger market thus it can justify a larger aircraft

Look even Iran can build aircraft there is no reason why india can not do it

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Don't be naive, it's politics. As an amigo you knew how Western especially Uncle Sam tried to banana republic your nations.

Chinese government subsidied Solar Energy industry for 15 yrs, EV for 10 yrs, now they are all 50%+ share in the world and profitble, let's see for avation in next 2 decades. You don't subsidy most of ur industries just because you have weak government and your government counldn't even fight Narcos, the Embraer is just the survived few, the Brazil's per GDP is even much lower than 10 yrs ago.

For Brazil, it's getting more and more de-industrilized:

Rise and fall of Brazilian industry: what can we learn from China?

https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiunOfG7av_AhW7iVYBHXYZC6IQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fseer.ufs.br%2Findex.php%2Ftempopresente%2Farticle%2Fview%2F12503%2F9666&usg=AOvVaw3hBMzFkTJvMN0ID3H5OjUW

For government subsidies:

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

The United States and the European Union on Wednesday announced a truce in their epic 17-year-old transatlantic battle over aircraft subsidies, hitting the pause button on the world's largest corporate trade dispute.

www.reuters.com

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

The U.S. Commerce Department has confirmed disputed Bombardier jets, purchased by Delta, are subject to duties of 300 percent.

www.cnbc.com

Any explaination?

the Chinese thinks China developed everything

The first electric car comes from the 1970s. Even before the large multinational automakers realized that the future of cars would be electricity, a Brazilian company developed in 1974 what would be the first electric car in Latin America.

Gurgel, led by the engineer, entrepreneur and creator of the automaker João Augusto do Amaral Gurgel (deceased in 2009) developed the Gurgel Itaipu, a 100% electric and Brazilian vehicle.

Itaipu: The first Brazilian electric car
Itaipu had a fiberglass body, measuring 2.65 meters long and 1.40 meters wide. The engine generated 3.2 kW, equivalent to 4.2 hp, with a maximum speed of 50 km/h and autonomy of 60 to 80 kilometers with a full load.

Conheça a história do primeiro carro elétrico brasileiro – CURIOSIDADE

A Gurgel, encabeçada pelo João Augusto do Amaral Gurgel (falecido em 2009) desenvolveu o Gurgel Itaipu, considerado o primeiro carro elétrico

www.reparacaoautomotiva.com.br

but the Chinese thinks he is a superior race to latin americans but he forgets industry existe every where

see we can build and design also buses in Mexico too



we even have designed electric cars in Mexico

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Don't be naive, it's politics. As an amigo you knew how Western especially Uncle Sam tried to banana republic your nations.

Chinese government subsidied Solar Energy industry for 15 yrs, EV for 10 yrs, now they are all 50%+ share in the world and profitble, let's see for avation in next 2 decades. You don't subsidy most of ur industries just because you have weak government and your government counldn't even fight Narcos, the Embraer is just the survived few, the Brazil's per GDP is even much lower than 10 yrs ago.

For Brazil, it's getting more and more de-industrilized:

Rise and fall of Brazilian industry: what can we learn from China?

https://www.google.com.hk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiunOfG7av_AhW7iVYBHXYZC6IQFnoECA0QAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fseer.ufs.br%2Findex.php%2Ftempopresente%2Farticle%2Fview%2F12503%2F9666&usg=AOvVaw3hBMzFkTJvMN0ID3H5OjUW

For government subsidies:

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

Highlights of the 17-year Airbus, Boeing trade war

The United States and the European Union on Wednesday announced a truce in their epic 17-year-old transatlantic battle over aircraft subsidies, hitting the pause button on the world's largest corporate trade dispute.

www.reuters.com

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

US upholds 300% duties on disputed Bombardier jets, a win for Boeing

The U.S. Commerce Department has confirmed disputed Bombardier jets, purchased by Delta, are subject to duties of 300 percent.

www.cnbc.com

Any explaination?

Chinese narcos sell fentanyl and are supported by the chinese government well the chinese government is the largest narco state