Chinese Navy Destroyers

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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When a ship is good you make lots of them.
Nibba
When a ship is not good you make a lot of them to counter it's qualitative shortcomings
:bplease:

PLA philosophy- Quantity by itself is a quality,
China dishes out a ridiculously high amount of ships, and it's a very very admirable thing, stands testimony for the industrial might of Chinese shipyards and engineers working there

China aims to be a global player, with it's interests in IOR also, PLAN aims to prevent a naval blockade by Indians and Australians if such a scenario is to happen,
meanwhile Indian navy is primarily focused on defending our interests in IOR
It may have to play a Defensive role on home turf where it has the natural advantage, only way China can overcome that "advantage" is to dish out more heavy carriers, which it is trying to do btw

In Hindi we have a saying,
Haathi ke daanth, Dikhaane Ka ek, khaane ka ek
Ab tu apni juperior afsar se jaake kehde aaj ki propoganda kaaphi, aur paisa leke kisi kone mai jaake tatti kar is thread ke bajaye
Bh0sdika
 

SexyChineseLady

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Some needs to tell these bat munchers 50cents propaganda bots that the MF-STAR has an elevation angle from -20ยฐ to +85ยฐ while their Type 346A radar can only go from 0ยฐ to 90ยฐ.
Will be interesting to see if that Type 346A radar can even detect sea skimming cruise missiles flying a few meters above the sea surface.
Maybe you should try to convince the Koreans about how you know better than them on the MF STAR. They used it on a ship that doesn't need to missiles but not on their missile destroyers.

All ships have multiple radars for air, surface, targeting and scan/detection. The configuration is set up to gain the best balance of performance.

Every destroyer in the Far East -- Chinese, Korean, Japanese, American -- uses the larger base mounted AESA configuration you see in the 052D. That region has the most formidable threat matrix on earth. Certainly far, far more than India's neighborhood. It is full of DDGs with heavy loads of VLS cells.

Okay, the 052D needs to compete in that environment and is armed and sensored apprpriately. The Calcutta is in an environment where there is no other destroyer and basically little threat so it is also appropriately armed with just 32 mid-range SAMs and a main radar used in a corvette.
 

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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SexyChineseLady

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Nibba
When a ship is not good you make a lot of them to counter it's qualitative shortcomings
:bplease:

PLA philosophy- Quantity by itself is a quality,
China dishes out a ridiculously high amount of ships, and it's a very very admirable thing, stands testimony for the industrial might of Chinese shipyards and engineers working there
Again not really. They make in progressively larger numbers as quality grows:

Type 052 -- 2
Type 052B -- 2
Type 052C -- 6
Type 052D -- 25

Each is more capable and more expensive than the preceding.

Quantity is greatest when quality peaks.
 

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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Again not really. They make in progressively larger numbers as quality grows:

Type 052 -- 2
Type 052B -- 2
Type 052C -- 6
Type 052D -- 25

Each is more capable and more expensive than the preceding.

Quantity is greatest when quality peaks.
I would rather call it four different Sub-class of same class of ships, which improves upon the previous as the Engineering and Expertise gets better, it's common sense nibba
:clap2:
Americans regularly trash Chinese claims when it comes to military online
Before you say, they may or may not be doing propoganda, but CCP has no authority when it comes to propoganda nibba
 

johnq

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Nibba
When a ship is not good you make a lot of them to counter it's qualitative shortcomings
:bplease:

PLA philosophy- Quantity by itself is a quality,
China dishes out a ridiculously high amount of ships, and it's a very very admirable thing, stands testimony for the industrial might of Chinese shipyards and engineers working there

China aims to be a global player, with it's interests in IOR also, PLAN aims to prevent a naval blockade by Indians and Australians if such a scenario is to happen,
meanwhile Indian navy is primarily focused on defending our interests in IOR
It may have to play a Defensive role on home turf where it has the natural advantage, only way China can overcome that "advantage" is to dish out more heavy carriers, which it is trying to do btw

In Hindi we have a saying,
Haathi ke daanth, Dikhaane Ka ek, khaane ka ek
Ab tu apni juperior afsar se jaake kehde aaj ki propoganda kaaphi, aur paisa leke kisi kone mai jaake tatti kar is thread ke bajaye
Bh0sdika
Once again Chinese Communist Party (CCP) bots keep making generic CCP propaganda statements without understanding the nuances behind different defense acquisitions and defense setups by different countries. It's a simple fact that CCP propaganda repeated over and over again by CCP bots is not grounded in reality; and rather shows CCP military's insecurities about their technology being primitive.

The simple reason why CCP navy is building so many ships is because China is an authoritarian regime which uses its ships to intimidate other nations and take over their seas and territory illegally. :)

CCP can also afford to build so many ships because it makes a lot more money by forcing tens of millions of Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongolians, Falun Gong members, political prisoners, protestors and common Chinese people imprisoned unjustly into slave labor camps where these people are overworked for no pay, and they are killed for their organs which are sold on the black market for profit by the CCP. :)
 

SexyChineseLady

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I would rather call it four different Sub-class of same class of ships, which improves upon the previous as the Engineering and Expertise gets better, it's common sense nibba
:clap2:
They are iterations. And if they cared about building "cheap" ships they won't spend time and money doing iteration after iteration :)

Yes, common sense and found all across Chinese systems. When they build lots of something, it is because they found it pretty good not just because it is cheap.

Think, there were only 2 052Bs which -- because it lacked the UVLS and massive AESA radar -- were estimated to be several times cheaper than the 052D. If they only cared about quantity then we would see far more of them than just two!

And certainly not 25 of the most expensive variant if all they cared about is cheap :)
 

FalconSlayers

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They are iterations. And if they cared about building "cheap" ships they won't spend time and money doing iteration after iteration :)

Yes, common sense and found all across Chinese systems. When they build lots of something, it is because they found it pretty good not just because it is cheap.

Think, there were only 2 052Bs which -- because it lacked the UVLS and massive AESA radar -- were estimated to be several times cheaper than the 052D. If they only cared about quantity then we would see far more of them than just two!

And certainly not 25 of the most expensive variant if all they cared about is cheap :)
The propulsion in my bike is far more advanced than the steam engines your navy uses. Lmao!
 

HariPrasad-1

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I donโ€™t want to talk about what gas turbines there will be in India, I only know that the gas turbines in Kolkata are terrible.
As for the radar, I have already said that the increase of the radar position will not cause the radar observation range to increase too long, only a few kilometers, but the impact on the hull structure is disastrous.
One advantage of Calcutta is that you can bring two helicopters
As for BrahMosโ€™s question, I might say
Kolkatta class has much better turbine. Your ship has pathatic power plant. One such power plant had fail while your ship was moving through Indian ocen. As your technicians were unable fix it, it had to be towed back to China.
 

HariPrasad-1

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How could a ship with an Universal VLS, far more missiles and a larger base mounted AESA radar system for destroyers be cheaper than one without an UVLS, less missiles and a smaller corvette/frigate radar?

When a ship is good you make lots of them.

China made two 052Bs. That was not too good. Then 052Cs were better. Made 6.

But 052Ds are very good. Made 25. Maybe more in the future :)

If China just made anything, it would not have iterated from B to C to D and we would have had 25 052Bs!
China made lots of J10 though it is a shit and has fallen in large numbers. China made lots of vaccine though it is worst.
 

Hariharan_kalarikkal

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They are iterations. And if they cared about building "cheap" ships they won't spend time and money doing iteration after iteration :)

.

Think, there were only 2 052Bs which -- because it lacked the UVLS and massive AESA radar -- were estimated to be several times cheaper than the 052D. If they only cared about quantity then we would see far more of them than just two!

And certainly not 25 of the most expensive variant if all they cared about is cheap :)
I did not say cheap, it is a capable platform

Ho gya tera?

When they build lots of something, it is because they found it pretty good not just because it is cheap.
Building numbers, Two reasons:

1. Project power with neighbors, especially in SE Asia
2. Overcome the limitations which one platform may have by using many

Ab bhi tera akal mai nhi ghus rha toh thook maarke Gand seech le Bh0sdike ๐Ÿ‘Œ
 

Haldilal

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Ya'll Nibbiars

The Type 346 Radar.
  • Total number of faces: 4
  • Bands: S and C
  • S-band array size & shape: octagon with 4 meter diameter
  • C-band array size & shape: โ‰ˆ 0.8 to 1 square meter rectangular ea.
  • Number of S-band arrays: 4 (1 per face)
  • Number of C-band arrays: 8 (2 per face)
  • Maximum search range (km): > 450
  • Weight (t): < 16 above deck
  • Scan: 120ยฐ
  • Elevation: 0ยฐ to 90ยฐ
  • Cooling: Air (Type 346), Liquid (Type 346A)
EL/M-2248 MF-STAR Radar.

ParametersCorvette VersionFrigate Version
Range>250 km>450 km
Azimuth coverage360o360o
Elevation coverage-20o to +85o-20o to +85o
Weight above deck500 kg per face2000 kg per face
Weight below deck1300 kg4000 kg
Antenna size1x2 m3x3 m
 

johnq

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They are iterations. And if they cared about building "cheap" ships they won't spend time and money doing iteration after iteration :)

Yes, common sense and found all across Chinese systems. When they build lots of something, it is because they found it pretty good not just because it is cheap.

Think, there were only 2 052Bs which -- because it lacked the UVLS and massive AESA radar -- were estimated to be several times cheaper than the 052D. If they only cared about quantity then we would see far more of them than just two!

And certainly not 25 of the most expensive variant if all they cared about is cheap :)
If they are behind due to technology restrictions placed on them by both the west and Russia, then what else can the CCP military do? It may "look" like a modern western AESA, but its back-end technology (programming, etc) is mostly limited to 1990s Russian radar technology from which it was copied (S-300). Even the hardware is 2 generations behind the western AESA hardware, and I could tell that from looking at the J-10s AESA.
And the latest RAND report about the Chinese military only confirmed my suspicions about the primitive state of Chinese radar technology due to the technology restrictions placed on China by other countries. :)

If the CCP military was as advanced as they claim to be, why did they order the S-400 which has 2 decades old, downgraded (for export to China) Russian radar technology? And if the CCP military was as confident about their radar technology as they claim, why did they deploy the Russian S-400 near the Indian border, instead of one of their own "advanced" systems? :rofl:

But of course China is still making up for the lack of technology by building a lot more systems, so that they can push other countries around, take over their seas and their territories, and take a nice dump near their coastlines. :)

China Dumping SEWAGE Near Philippines
China is literally dumping on the Philippines ' territorial claims, and it's created a stink. Not just a figurative one, but literally. China has dumped so much sewage into the ocean that it can be seen from space!
 

SexyChineseLady

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Why do you think the US feel that it needs to ban China? ;)

China makes and sell more electronics than the US to start with.

It is actually superior across a very wide spectrum too but you will never hear that unless you look closely:

The Pentagon has spent roughly $18 million to test and identify drones that government agencies can use instead of those made or assembled in China. But how do these drones stack up against the competition? Not too well, according to an internal US government memo. The Pentagon-approved Blue sUAS drones are 8 to 14 times more expensive and only 20% as effective when it comes to vital conservation work, according to the Department of Interior (DoI).

China has been to catch up quickly with blinding speed. For example, China took one shot in using its own rocket and own orbiter to reach and land its own rover on Mars. Things that took NASA decades to do.

China's Zhurong rover landed safely on Mars on May 15, making China only the third country to successfully land a rover on the red planet.

More impressively still, China is the first Mars-going nation to carry out an orbiting, landing and rovering operation as its first mission.

Planetary scientist Roberto Orosei told Nature China is "doing in a single go what NASA took decades to do,"


China is putting EMALS on the second carrier it is building and that system used DC not AC based like US system.

So betting that Chinese electronics is necessarily behind Western ones and especially behind an Israeli radar that is only used on corvettes is not a sure thing :)
 

Wisemarko

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MF STAR is a reasonable system but it was used only a corvette before and had never been used on a destroyer
Incorrect. MF-STAR just like most AESA is a scalable version with RMA modules. The frigate version mounted on Indian ships is 3x3 meter and 4 ton weight while the corvette version is significantly smaller (and lighter) at 1x2 meter diameter.

Comparing the area of each flat plate, SPY-6 radar will have 37 RMA Modules on each plate on DDG 51 which is approximately 13 sq meter compared to 9 sq meter for MF-STAR. Each plate contains 144 T/R Modules per RMA hence 5,328 T/R Modules per Face.

Now comparing that to 3500 or so T/R modules on Type 346, it is clear that Type 346 is not as big as SPY-6. It also means that MF-STAR being only 4 sq meter smaller than SPY-6, isnโ€™t too small either.

Also, MF-STAR and Type 346 both are closer in size than you claim. Coming to backend and software capabilities, one can only guess what is truth and what is CCP propaganda.

But I will advise you one thing, I would not mess with Indian navy in Indian Ocean despite what your nut-job CCP masters tell you. Or should I say please go ahead and try that.

One thing that CCP and itโ€™s evil regime has is its massive industrial production capacity. West and itโ€™s allies need to coalesce together to challenge that.
 
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