Chinese J10B roll out!

nitesh

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India friends, PLS face the reality and stop "blh bla"...[/B]
:rofl: you are continuing with baseless statements your posts are not making any sense at all. If you have such a great industry then why you are not able to make things in house still no explanation.
 
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badguy this is the second time you went into Indian infrastructure to avoid answering. Very simple question what radar will be on this plane??
 

badguy2000

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badguy this is the second time you went into Indian infrastructure to avoid answering. Very simple question what radar will be on this plane??
PLS have a look at my first post"

The aircraft also features a J-11B style IRST/LR and a wide-angle holographic HUD. IRST enables passive detection of enemy aircraft, making J-10B more stealthy in combat. Its nose appears flatter too, similar to that of American F-16, and radar is thought to be PESA (of Russian origin?),
 
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which PESA made by Russia??? Russia has invested in AESA so i am very curious.
 

p2prada

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As for India, I don't know much about India's dynamics,but India seems to lack such R&D infrastructure as Japan does,because many dynamic experiment of LCA wer reported to be carried out in Russia or France.
All "dynamics" expts were carried out in India, thank you. Did you forget, china was one of the first countries in the world to place sanctions on India in 1974. Since then , no supercomputers, no satellites, no planes, no industry. Everything was built in India, all on our own.

Also, India exported software necessary for the design and construction of the Airbus A-380. The software called AUTOLAY used in designing composites and placing them on the LCA was sold to Airbus after the sanctions were lifted by the US.

Did you know, India built its own plane called the HF-24 Marut in 1960.
HAL HF-24 Marut - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The project died a little early since we could not import better engines after the sanctions in 1974. But, it was a made in India product.

We also built our own Cryogenic engine independently.

Presently, India has been working on JVs with some of the best companies on the planet namely, BaE, Rafael, IAI, Boeing, LM, Sukhoi, NIIP, Vympel, Dassault, Denel etc. So, we have been importing hardware and software from these countries over the last 5 years. You could say the R&D in India has surged past China, especially in electronics.

India is developing an ECM suite with Israel in a JV. This ECM suite is called Mayawi and will find its place in the Indian LCA and the Israeli F-35. This is an internally equipped EW suite.

Not to mention, India will also send its own space shuttle in the air by this year end or early next year called the AVATAR RLV, this will be equipped with Scramjet engines.

We don't have to worry about Materials since we have extensive knowledge about Composites. Russia will be extensively utilizing our knowledge in Composites for the PAKFA and FGFA. Also, we will be adding composites to our Su-30MKIs to reduce weight by atleast 15%.

As for good machining tech and dynamics, we have engineered our very own warship grade steel for armored ships like destroyers, frigates and aircraft carriers.
Also, don't forget that we will have our own aircraft carrier in the seas well before China is able to refurbish the Varyag.
 

nitesh

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enough of crap about great (so called) Chinese industry

India Today - The most widely read newsweekly in South Asia

Small is the new big

Sandeep Unnithan
February 14, 2008

Every day, millions of soldiers across the world, from Turkey to the United States, don Kevlar helmets. One in every 10 of these helmets is rolled off the production line of M Kumar Udyog (MKU), a small Kanpur-based company that cranks out a staggering 25,000 ballistic helmets—enough to equip over two army divisions—in a month.

The helmets cost $200 (Rs 8,000) each and are exported to the armies of over 40 countries, including the police and homeland security forces of the US.

Neeraj Gupta, who heads the company’s foreign sales department, recalls the time, five years ago, when foreign firms cited lower costs in China to counter his price. Recently, however, Gupta bagged a $15-million (Rs 60 crore) order to armour Turkish naval frigates despite his quote being 40 per cent higher than his nearest competitor’s.

“When I recently asked a foreign defence company if the Chinese were not competing any more, they said they were looking for armoured protection, not soft toys,” he explains.

Today MKU is a buzzword in the rarefied world of armour protection, be it equipping the soldiers of Singapore or armouring German-built warships in Turkey. The firm, which bought its helmet technology from a US company a few years ago for Rs 50 lakh, plans to buy German and American firms to be able to compete better in the international market.

MKU is one of the biggest success stories in the nascent, but fastgrowing, private sector defence industry. Seven years after the doors were thrown open to private participants, they now produce world-class helmets, electronic processors, nuclear fallout shelters, simulators and unmanned aerial vehicles.

These small and medium enterprises (SMEs)—with investments in equipment between Rs 10 lakh and Rs 5 crore—are the new defence providers, taking baby steps towards the great goal of self sufficiency in the defence sector.

There are over 5,000 companies in India supplying 20-25 per cent of the components to state-owned defence firms. According to the Pune-based Defence Electronics Manufacturers Association (DEMA), an SME grouping, there are about 150 major SMEs, located around Pune, Bangalore and Hyderabad, with a combined annual turnover of Rs 1,500 crore.

Most were sub-contractors to defence PSUs, shipyards and the Ordnance Factory Board. They will participate in the four day Defence Expo—starting February 16 in Delhi—which is India’s largest exhibition of land and naval systems.

“No industrial sector can excel if its SMEs are not strong. The Indian automotive sector would not have been what it is, but for its small and medium players,” says Director-General of Confederation of Indian Industry Lt- General (retired) S.S. Mehta.

Another example of a small company making it big in the sector is Rosoboronservice. When the Indian Navy needs spares for its Russian-built warships or equipment, it usually dials this joint-venture firm set up by Commander (retired) V.G. Jayaprakasan 13 years ago— when sourcing parts and equipment from Russia was becoming difficult— with the Russian government, which owns a 75 per cent stake in it.

The naval engineer who also launched Krasny Marine to service warships, says, “Being self-reliant in servicing sensitive defence equipment is as important as producing the equipment.”

Today, Krasny Marine refits Coast Guard and naval vessels, while Rosoboronservice is the largest provider of defence spares, expertise and infrastructure in the country.

This year, it will begin servicing Russian equipment with the army and the Indian Air Force (IAF) in a deal that could catapult its turnover five times to over Rs 500 crore.

SMEs are also indispensable for R&D. Dass Hitachi, a medium-scale engineering company located just off Delhi’s Grand Trunk Road, is engaged in developmental activities in association with the Defence Research & Development Organisation.

It specialises in nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) protection and is the only indigenously approved producer of NBC ventilation systems. It makes underground, self-contained, NBC-protected, portable shelters—designed to help Indian forces withstand a nuclear attack in a ‘near-miss’ situation—in large numbers.

The shelters include a decontamination module and a utility module with living accommodation and facilities sustainable for 96 hours. Executive Director Pradeep Dass is reluctant to divulge the capacity of the weapon system it is designed to withstand, but he indicates that the shelter has been successfully evaluated for a blast of requisite yield under actual field conditions.


At an estimated $45 billion (Rs 1.8 lakh crore), the Indian defence market will be one of the world’s most attractive ones in the next five years. A study by Ernst and Young and ASSOCHAM says the market for private defence firms will grow by 30 per cent in two years’ time.
Soon India will also have the defence sector’s first equivalents of the Tirupur hosiery and the Gurgaon auto component clusters. DEMA is scouting for at least 50 acres in Pune, where 50 hi-tech defence equipment manufacturers can be based.

“The business itself is driving the growth of SMEs, most of which are nimble-footed,” says Pradeep Kumar, secretary, defence production, Ministry of Defence (MoD).

The SME environment has been further conditioned by MoD’s procurement policy, which makes what are called direct offsets mandatory. This means that foreign firms have to plough back 30 per cent of the value of all contracts worth over Rs 300 crore into the Indian market by sourcing materials and transferring technology to the domestic industry.

Thus, at least Rs 54,000 crore will flow as offsets into the defence industry in the form of high technology from foreign defence majors. “It is an exciting opportunity for the Indian industry to raise the technology threshold, since offsets don’t differentiate between the private and public sectors,” says Mehta.

Larsen and Toubro and Hyderabad-based Astra Defence Software became the first beneficiaries of defence offsets in 2006, when Israeli firm Elta chose to invest Rs 250 crore to source components from them after signing a deal to supply radars worth Rs 833 crore to IAF.

Six foreign firms, including Lockheed Martin and Boeing, which are competing for a $10-billion (Rs 40,000-crore) tender to buy 126 multi-role warplanes for IAF, are wooing SMEs to disburse about $5 billion in offsets.

Indian firms, on the other hand, say they don’t lack technology or manpower, but face hurdles in funding and infrastructure. Financial institutions are still reluctant to offer credit to SMEs.

“It will take us at least five more years to start thinking of absorbing offsets,” says D.S. Kamlapurkar, president, DEMA. The Government is yet to move on key promises like the Raksha Udyog Ratnas, where the private sector would be given parity with PSUs.

It is also sitting on a proposal cleared by former defence minister Pranab Mukherjee to pump Rs 100 crore into the private sector for R&D. It is up to the Government to nurture defence SMEs and usher in an era of self-sufficiency.
 

badguy2000

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which PESA made by Russia??? Russia has invested in AESA so i am very curious.
nothing revealed yet. all are stiil "GUESS" yes.

PLA in fact has tested its AESA and PESA for long time in Yangliang experient base in Shanxi province.

it is reported that main problem lies in the cost,instead of performance.

the cost of CHina's indigenious AESA is too high that PLA can not afford to mass-produce it.....

well, the mian obstacle of high cost is still " the base of all bases"( material and machiining)

when produceing a key material of AESA's key components,west and Japan has much higher "Yielding rate" than China. :blum3:

If china want to mass-deploy AESA, some now tech has to be inducted.
 
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i am interested because Russian radar ,India will be able to get the radar signature for it.
 

p2prada

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LethalForce:

The radar is not known mate. Speculation. You could expect an older version of the Zukh-MS radar. Even if the J-10B is equipped with a PESA, it cannot generate enough power to use the more modern versions that are on the MKI. Perhaps one of the N00 versions.
 
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LethalForce:

The radar is not known mate. Speculation. You could expect an older version of the Zukh-MS radar. Even if the J-10B is equipped with a PESA, it cannot generate enough power to use the more modern versions that are on the MKI. Perhaps one of the N00 versions.
i cant see Zhuk or a PESA being put on the plane and keeping the cost of the plane at 7-12 million each.
 
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nothing revealed yet. all are stiil "GUESS" yes.

PLA in fact has tested its AESA and PESA for long time in Yangliang experient base in Shanxi province.

it is reported that main problem lies in the cost,instead of performance.

the cost of CHina's indigenious AESA is too high that PLA can not afford to mass-produce it.....

well, the mian obstacle of high cost is still " the base of all bases"( material and machiining)

when produceing a key material of AESA's key components,west and Japan has much higher "Yielding rate" than China. :blum3:

If china want to mass-deploy AESA, some now tech has to be inducted.

you mean it has to be reversed engineered from somewhere or stolen.
 

badguy2000

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i cant see Zhuk or a PESA being put on the plane and keeping the cost of the plane at 7-12 million each.
J10's cost is not as low as you think....

it is reported that J10a is about 200 million RMB (25 billion USD):blum3:
 
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i know it is not 25 billion but million. IF it is ready for rollout shouldn't you know what radar is rolling out in the finished model?
 

p2prada

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I doubt the J-10B is ready. They were carrying out a test flight to check the new DSI air intakes. So, expect more details on avionics only after sometime.
 

badguy2000

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i know it is not 25 billion but million. IF it is ready for rollout shouldn't you know what radar is rolling out in the finished model?
WS10 is starting mass-production now and new assembline line is finished...

But the reliablity of WS10 needs still fix
 

rock45

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Hello p2prada

Even their fighters, the Su-27 and the Mig-29 have surpassed the American equivalents of F-15 and F-16 in all categories except avionics and maintenance.
Sorry don't agree avionics and maintenance are huge to begin it and shouldn't be so quickly over looked. Two things besides much better training that makes the MKI Flankers stand out above the Russian Su-27s.

"In all categories" not a chance every fighter has it's strengths and weaknesses and Russia's Mig-29 and Su-27s are no different. In certain profiles of flight they can be beaten and are outclass in so many others its not even close.

Russia just haven't put money into their own Fulcrums and Flankers fleets and that show with the Regiment or 2, I think 1 really of upgraded Flankers. The Flanker upgrades are mainly software so the base aircraft is on certain levels just catching up to an F-15A in avionics wise. And look at their Fulcrums mostly grounded and both sets of pilots Fulcrum & Flanker would fair poorly against American F-15/16s in real battle because of lack of training mainly and the lack of being in real combat operations.

Mix in the avionics and maintenance on Russia's fighters and it would a slaughter. Training is the key you can only fight as good as you train. If you don't train to avoid radar guided missiles shot at you'll never do it well in real life. If you don't push your maintenance personnel to turn over aircraft fast and correctly by the 2nd and 3rd sorties your fighters go down.
 
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LF any idea about engine?
AL-31FN Russian engine, Russians are currently makin AL-41FN which is reportedly 10 years ahead, Russians are not going to kill their market by giving China a competitive engine.
 

badguy2000

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I doubt the J-10B is ready. They were carrying out a test flight to check the new DSI air intakes. So, expect more details on avionics only after sometime.
of course it is not ready yet.

in the pictures, J10b is still not painted and obvioulsy under test.

But compared with J10A, J10B seems much more "stealth"...PLA seems to use J10B as a testbed for the next 5 G aircraft.
 
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with no indigenous engine and radar for j-10b China is jumping to fifth generation planes??
 

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