Chinese daily calls for 'small-scale war' against Philippines

Tolaha

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15 days has passed since the standoff started. But no major powers expressed any public solidarity with Philippines, not even its main ally America. Most ASEAN countries shied away from its suggestion of taking sides in the standoff, including those who also claim South China Sea.
Its either

A. Those news were blocked in China

or

B. Your definition of countries expressing solidarity is akin to what Pakistan does to China and so nothing else counts!
 
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Kiyoshi

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MISSTEP: Beijing has underestimated Manila's resolve


OVER the years I recall cartoonists -- who always understand best -- showing a globe with a bear behind it, his claws grasping more and more of the territory at the edge of his fingers. The Soviets used it about American moves to "encircle" it in the 1950s, just as the French used it about British imperialist moves in the 19th century. Now, which is more apposite, the cartoons about China extending its reach in Asia, as (for example) its patrol boats protect Chinese fishermen in plainly Filipino waters? Or the ones about the new American moves to reassert itself in Asia as Marines begin establishing a multiplier base in Darwin, Australia?
Of course, it's always partly the same. As countries' economies expand, and their navies go with it, the navies have to find things to do -- things they can do with new capabilities. Well, what's better than protecting some Chinese fishermen? It's not as if the Standing Committee of the Politburo said, "Let's make a move and show who has power", but it amounts to the same thing, throughout history. When you've asserted your domain over the "South China Sea", then it follows that your orders go out to your navy to protect it. It's like when the British, having established valuable trade in India 300 years ago, needed "coaling" stations along the way. Guess where the British African Empire began. It was the same with America, though of course we said it wasn't an empire.

Now some of the smartest Filipinos are saying that the best thing the Chinese could do for the Philippines is to blast its coast from its vastly superior navy. The country is already showing a rare unanimity and nationhood over the confrontation at the Scarborough Shoal in what Manila calls the West Philippine Sea. If Beijing not only bared its fangs but let loose the cannon, the whole world would react -- on Manila's side. The "work in progress" of building a really coherent Filipino nation would benefit enormously. Already Manila has said that its balikbayan exercises with the United States Navy would proceed, even as Beijing blames them anew for causing the rumpus.

My own feeling is that the Chinese miscalculated. For nine years, the president, the unlamented Gloria Arroyo, let the Chinese have whatever they wanted, in return for personal favours -- like the incredible broadband project, which allegedly carried with it a 50 per cent cut to the first family (or more) and blew up in their faces. Yet the Chinese ambassador who presided over all this in Manila, instead of getting the reward of a high position in the Foreign Ministry in Beijing, as he no doubt expected, was sent to Jakarta instead. Maybe the wise men of Beijing knew he'd missed the point. The Philippines doesn't want vassalage.

Now meantime, Washington has a president whose view of the world didn't start with Europe, like every predecessor of his. Europe's shine was dimming anyway. He started in Asia, having spent his boyhood in Jakarta and Hawaii. It gives that global map a different perspective. And interestingly, that perspective corresponded with the real trend in world politics, everything shifting perceptibly to Asia. It was going to happen anyway, but Barack Obama has speeded up the shift in American priorities.

We have three tiers regarding China. There's the inner circle, Japan, South Korea and in effect Taiwan. There's a second rung, which Obama is beefing up. Basing in Singapore, Australia -- and long talks with Filipinos about how best to "protect" them. And there are long talks with some surprising folks not so far from where you readers are sitting. Some are speculating even long talks about the very bases in Vietnam that we withdrew from in defeat a long generation ago. Just look at the map and imagine the rest. The fact is, China is utterly dependent on free passage through the Strait of Malacca; it would be crippled in months if cut off.
Of course, the third tier is the Seventh Fleet, Pearl Harbor, and the American mainland.

So, when a senior Filipino adviser said that he hoped Beijing "bombs the hell out of us, because then the Philippines becomes a united nation", he meant it. And of course he knows the consequences. Asean tightens up, solidarity all around, and Obama doubles the base in Darwin and Manila renews long dormant but never dead ties (and tons of military assistance to the Philippines).

That's why smarter people in Beijing are having second thoughts; if for nothing else, for timing. It's too soon for them to start baring the claws.
Thank you china for uniting our nation once again, 20 million Filipinos all over the world are doing their part especially from IT/Computer professionals like myself from the humiliation you deserve. don't try threatening us we may be divided politically, but we are never divided when our country is threatened. We will fight back. And traitors will be the first to die. Heed our words.
 
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s002wjh

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Then I suggest that you use google or any website that has search engine in it. unless your government blocks the truth tisk tisk. :taunt:

I'll search it for you then since YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE IT. I guess this how a typical chinese brain works pity. :shocked:
you do know russia just had a navy drill with china. all these thing are just talk, work well in peace time, not really well during a war.
 

s002wjh

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MISSTEP: Beijing has underestimated Manila's resolve




Thank you china for uniting our nation once again, 20 million Filipinos all over the world are doing their part especially from IT/Computer professionals like myself from the humiliation you deserve. don't try threatening us we may be divided politically, but we are never divided when our country is threatened. We will fight back. And traitors will be the first to die. Heed our words.
ok lets look at china threatening behavior. did they send warship to capture philippine fisherman? no i believe philippine did that. did they say they will use navy to invade philippine? did they said they want to solve it through diplomacy, they did. did they send 2 more warship to the region? i think philippine did that. did they ask other countries to united against china? i think philippine did that too. so whos threaten whom?? if china is really threaten philippine, they will said they will use force or send in its navy, but they didn't. so get your fact straight. both of you are claim an area that also claim by vietnam, all three country has historical record regarding SCS. so don't play the victim here. the only difference is china is bigger and its commy, so people automatically bias toward it. but when looking at recent fact, china did not send in warship nor do they say they will invade philippine.
 

Ray

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MISSTEP: Beijing has underestimated Manila's resolve




Thank you china for uniting our nation once again, 20 million Filipinos all over the world are doing their part especially from IT/Computer professionals like myself from the humiliation you deserve. don't try threatening us we may be divided politically, but we are never divided when our country is threatened. We will fight back. And traitors will be the first to die. Heed our words.
Where is the link?
 

Kiyoshi

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ok lets look at china threatening behavior. did they send warship to capture philippine fisherman? no i believe philippine did that. did they say they will use navy to invade philippine? did they said they want to solve it through diplomacy, they did. did they send 2 more warship to the region? i think philippine did that. did they ask other countries to united against china? i think philippine did that too. so whos threaten whom?? if china is really threaten philippine, they will said they will use force or send in its navy, but they didn't. so get your fact straight. both of you are claim an area that also claim by vietnam, all three country has historical record regarding SCS. so don't play the victim here. the only difference is china is bigger and its commy, so people automatically bias toward it. but when looking at recent fact, china did not send in warship nor do they say they will invade philippine.
Interesting. more please. :popcorn:
getting an argument with you is a waste of time, I'll just entertain myself letting you satisfy yourself by posting all that trash and letting it all out.
 
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s002wjh

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Interesting. more please. :popcorn:
getting an argument with you is a waste of time, I'll just entertain myself letting you satisfy yourself by posting all that trash and letting it all out.
i'm just saying don't put too much faith in japan or australia. they are good for business partner thats about it.

as for the claim, ill hope you guys can solve peceafully, and i'm not gonna say SCS is belong to china, vietnam or philippine. even if china don't claim SCS, philippine still has to worry about vietnam, malaysia etc. in fact most island in SCS are occupied by vietnam. china is not gonna solve thing through force, unless some major incident happend.

if i were in philippine or vietnam shoes i will just work with russia, japan, and explore the oil field. not much china can do other than raise their fist. send in warships only escalte the tension, and give china an excuse to use its navy. and all ASEAN combine navy is not a match vs chinese navy.
 

Ray

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Actually, Japan, Australia and all others have been so spooked that they will support each other.

Especially, when they are worried about China's growing economic and military might!

Russia is worried about the influence of China in their border towns.

ASEAN Navies cannot compete with China'.

However, there is the US which is playing the role of Fairy Godmother!

That is a huge input!
 
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Ray

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Kiyoshi

You must give links to articles that you post so that we can check its authenticity.
 

s002wjh

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i doubt japan, austrialia, russia will get involve in a conflict with china. russia/china are bascially want to counter US, russia is certainlly more worry about US than china. we've seen recent veto of syria and other issue, both china/russia are on the same page.

japan/australia will work with ASEAN, have military dril, oil exploration etc. but not interst involve in a SCS conflict, if that every happen, which i doubt it.

Both US/china try to avoid conflict, so the chance both country start a war is very very small. short of chinese invasion of philippine, US won't attack china navy. US might sail its 7th fleet for show of force, like 96 taiwan, but won't enage with china.

the economic tie between these nation are so tangle up together, just make a conflict much less likely to happen.
 

Ray

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When the chips are down, one does not know who aligns with who or what happens.

China, right now, is not the flavour of the month!

People will sail their Fleets but I wonder if there will be an open confrontation!
 

William of Tyre

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The drills with Russia may only be a show...... after all, Moscow is certainly not happy that the designs of her fighter jets are being stolen by a neighbor..... "Relations with Russia were strained last year after Moscow accused Beijing of producing near identical versions of its Sukhoi Su-27 fighter and Su-33 naval fighter, the paper said.

China had bought the Su-27, only subsequently to build the similar J-11 fighter.

The J-15 naval jet based on the Su-33 is needed for China's new aircraft carriers, the first of which may be launched later this year and which is also believed to be based on a Russian design.
State-of-the-art US avionics to China in 50 year deal

Real copycats. A certified thief of what does not belong to her.
 

techsupport

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He knows very well who will not support who. Also, he knows very well Russia will be on their side when those countries supported each other. Weird.

China's most notorious enemy will not be her neighbors nor the US. It will be her own people not supporting their government on going to war. They just started to live a prosperous life and they wont let all their hard work these past few decades go to waste just because of some ridiculous claims their government cant even defend legally.

Here's the thing: Who will really benefit here if there will be a war? ASEAN for the investments flying out of China, borders at peace and of course the OIL that will be enjoyed by all parties and that includes US, Japan, Korea, Australia and Russia. Chinese economy will be destroyed. Nada.

Now let's see how mighty you are now. There's a reason why the US "pivots" to Asia. You know it. We know it. :namaste:

Added: With some posturing here and there, India will be enjoying their new title as the Asia's meanest SOB without even firing a single shot at China.
 
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s002wjh

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The drills with Russia may only be a show...... after all, Moscow is certainly not happy that the designs of her fighter jets are being stolen by a neighbor..... "Relations with Russia were strained last year after Moscow accused Beijing of producing near identical versions of its Sukhoi Su-27 fighter and Su-33 naval fighter, the paper said.

China had bought the Su-27, only subsequently to build the similar J-11 fighter.

The J-15 naval jet based on the Su-33 is needed for China's new aircraft carriers, the first of which may be launched later this year and which is also believed to be based on a Russian design.
State-of-the-art US avionics to China in 50 year deal

Real copycats. A certified thief of what does not belong to her.
plz give me a breake on these things already, any military enthusiast know china copy the airframe, but change alot stuff inside, the airframe might contain composite material compare to original air frame. do a research on J15, there is alot info on it.
 

s002wjh

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He knows very well who will not support who. Also, he knows very well Russia will be on their side when those countries supported each other. Weird.

China's most notorious enemy will not be her neighbors nor the US. It will be her own people not supporting their government on going to war. They just started to live a prosperous life and they wont let all their hard work these past few decades go to waste just because of some ridiculous claims their government cant even defend legally.

Here's the thing: Who will really benefit here if there will be a war? ASEAN for the investments flying out of China, borders at peace and of course the OIL that will be enjoyed by all parties and that includes US, Japan, Korea, Australia and Russia. Chinese economy will be destroyed. Nada.

Now let's see how mighty you are now. There's a reason why the US "pivots" to Asia. You know it. We know it. :namaste:

Added: With some posturing here and there, India will be enjoying their new title as the Asia's meanest SOB without even firing a single shot at China.
actually chinese have pretty high nationlism. i do agree china enemy is not external but internal corruption, and other internal issues.
and if you look at my post, i said plently time that china don't really want to force the issues.
ASEAN don't have much investment in china compare to china investment in ASEAN. and NO one will benefit if there is a war with china, period.
US pivot in asia has to do with keep its influence in the region, it does not mean US will goto war with china for stupid reasons. unless china invade philippine, US won't attack china. we are not talking about iraq here. war between us/china will damage both. furthermore, US will not have a full scale war with a nuclear capable country like china / russia.
there are other issues US want to work with china, trade, N.korea, iran etc etc. so war between US/China is unlikely to happen for multiple reason as i post it multiple time before.
 

Tolaha

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actually chinese have pretty high nationlism. i do agree china enemy is not external but internal corruption, and other internal issues.
and if you look at my post, i said plently time that china don't really want to force the issues.
ASEAN don't have much investment in china compare to china investment in ASEAN. and NO one will benefit if there is a war with china, period.
US pivot in asia has to do with keep its influence in the region, it does not mean US will goto war with china for stupid reasons. unless china invade philippine, US won't attack china. we are not talking about iraq here. war between us/china will damage both. furthermore, US will not have a full scale war with a nuclear capable country like china / russia.
there are other issues US want to work with china, trade, N.korea, iran etc etc. so war between US/China is unlikely to happen for multiple reason as i post it multiple time before.
s002wjh,

The views you have expressed here in this post, I happen to agree with them. Even though the end game by your view, wouldn't suit some of us, I agree with your line of thinking. Having said that, all this fear going around East Asia can be directly linked to the recent outbursts from China. Why do you think China is doing this job of uniting its neighbors, with all its war mongering? I think they are being pretty short-sighted (which is beneficial to the rest of us); would love to hear your views on it.
 

s002wjh

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s002wjh,

The views you have expressed here in this post, I happen to agree with them. Even though the end game by your view, wouldn't suit some of us, I agree with your line of thinking. Having said that, all this fear going around East Asia can be directly linked to the recent outbursts from China. Why do you think China is doing this job of uniting its neighbors, with all its war mongering? I think they are being pretty short-sighted (which is beneficial to the rest of us); would love to hear your views on it.
china main concern is US pivot of asia.
i think its a tug of war to gain influence in the region between US and china. china doesn't want to be too agressive by sending its navy but don't want appear weak when facing US influence. there will be incidents between all the involve party but no large scale war. even vietnam has similar incident with philippine. but nothing major happen.
china had been a bit assertive few years ago due to rasing confident etc. but it reliazie all it does is pushing ASEAN to US side, so now it change tactic by wanting to negotiate or solve it through diploymacy with ASEAN, whcih can be advantage for ASEAN. if ASEAN and china can come to a term of SCS soon, that would be best. china certainly don't want to drag the dispute indefinably, but as time goes on, china will just become even more powerfull not really good for ASEAN when negotiating SCS. 10 20 yrs from now it will be pretty tough to negotiate with china when they are more powerful than today. US can only delay china growing influence somewhat but can't stop it.

also i don't think they are assertive/aggressive today compare to few years back. for example the recent philippine incident, china send in civilian ship instead warship to face off a philippine warship. if this was US, we would send in our navy instead some survey ship. both china and vietanm claim the island since what 50's, so nothing new here.

ASEAN ally themself because china is the big powerful coutry, and its claim overlap vietnam, philippin, malasia claims, they wont stand a chance if they don't ally themself. but there are still many indifference between ASEAN, which china try to take advantage of.
LOOKING FOR INFLUENCE, NOT FIGHT

It's easy to see the stand-off as an act of quasi-aggression, but it's not.

Because China is looking for influence rather than spoiling for a fight, it will seek a minimal show of force as it did in the Scarborough incident by sending surveillance vessels instead of warships.

Drawing attention to its rapid military modernisation or its intensifying nationalist sentiment, after all, could undermine China's core interests.

The key take-away from the recent showdown is that the US needs to remain cool-headed. Not only are such skirmishes at sea inevitable, but they are also of minor consequence - assuming they are managed shrewdly.

Given our allies' overlapping interests in the South China Sea, we are bound to feel pressured to act aggressively against what appears to be Chinese expansionism. But as wiser heads in the US have understood for decades, China is not truly expansionist.

Its mercantilist international policies have material rather than imperial ambitions. China is testing the limits, not necessarily trying to pick a fight.

And we would do well to remember that for all their differences, China and the US are not the Cold War ideological adversaries of old. They both benefit enormously from an open global maritime commons.

Globalisation is possible only because of the unfettered sea lanes over which the vast majority of goods and resources move around the world. And the South China Sea, which joins the Indian and Pacific oceans, is the narrow throat of our globalised economy.



MORE STAND-OFFS LIKELY

That said, we shouldn't ignore the underlying risk in such incidents, either. At least in the South China Sea, China's military might will continue to bump up against the US Navy's role as guarantor of freedom of the seas.

Nor will the two powers always see eye to eye. The US has a treaty commitment to help defend the Philippines, but it has always been careful to maintain neutrality over sovereignty disputes. American diplomatic exertions have thus gone into supporting multilateral approaches that would make it more difficult for one power - China - to coerce its neighbours.

China, on the other hand, prefers to deal with the players in the region one by one, starting with a country like the Philippines, which it knows lacks the military capacity to defend its disparate islands.

While the current stand-off may be under control, more are likely to occur, especially as our allies turn to us for protection - something we may see at next week's meeting between the US and the Philippines in Washington.

And it hasn't helped that soon after the dispute began, the US and the Philippines started a long-planned military exercise nearby involving thousands of soldiers, sailors and marines.

At the same time, separate disputes are guaranteed to continue among the countries around the South China Sea - including Malaysia, Vietnam and Japan as well as China and the Philippines - as long as oil and natural gas continue to be discovered under its waters.



CHINA READY TO RUMBLE

Should a fight erupt, China is increasingly ready to rumble.

Years of double-digit growth in its defence budgets are providing a historic land power with a blue-water naval capability and missile and air forces that put the American military presence in East Asia at risk.

This new reality, in short, recommends a specific course of action, one we are at risk of losing sight of: Namely, to understand that China is testing the waters and sending signals but nothing more - but also to respond with precise, measured steps to ensure it doesn't push the limits too far.

The maritime drama near Scarborough Shoal is just another salvo in a growing strategic rivalry that can be managed but not resolved. A resolute but prudent American position that seeks region-wide cooperation on common rules, but backed by American strength, remains the best means of keeping the waters tranquil.



Patrick M Cronin is the director of the Asia programme at the Center for a New American Security and the editor and a co-author of Cooperation From Strength: The United States, China and the South China Sea.
 
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