China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulties

[AVERAGE INDIAN]

China has developed some impressive defence capabilities in recent years. But one of its flagship achievements has had some notable technical problems in recent weeks.

As Robert Beckhusen explained at War is Boring, the Liaoning, China's sole aircraft carrier, unexpectedly powered down during a sea trial last week. The vessel "appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier's electrical power system," Beckhusen wrote, citing a Chinese-language media report (which is summarized at Asia Defence News).

Beckhusen notes these sorts of failures aren't unheard of on Soviet-built carriers of the late 1980s — before it was the Lianoning, China's carrier was called the Varyag, and carriers of its class haven't aged particularly well.

"The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya — first a Soviet Kiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004 — temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago," Beckhusen recalls, adding that "the 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov goes nowhere without a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway."

The Lianoning's troubles reveal an important tension within China's defence outlook.

China wants to be a major conventional power. No country goes through the trouble of acquiring a half-operable carrier, or developing simultaneous models of stealth jet, if it doesn't have hopes of becoming one of the globe's leading military powers. Simply pursuing these sorts of projects reveals an undeniable depth of commitment towards keeping pace with the US, which has multiple carrier groups in the Pacific at a given time, and has been developing its own advanced fighter, the troubled F-35, for years.

But China's current military advantages are actually asymmetrical. In other words, capabilities meant to quickly and expediently close the gap between China and the US without having to build up China's order of battle to identical level, even if that means breaking some broadly-accepted rules of how states should behave.

So China's military hacks cyber targets throughout the world, and builds weaponry that few other countries would — things like anti-satellite systems, or missiles capable of carrying nearly a dozen nuclear warheads.

The fact that China even has an aircraft carrier is a reminder that Beijing wants to be a conventional power on par with the US. But the Lianoning's recent problems also show China is still far behind the US as a military power — something that might only make its actions less predictable and more worrisome as Beijing progresses towards super-power status.

China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulties | Business Insider

 

[Zebra]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

If they can make 'Liaoning' out of 'Riga', then they can fix these kind of issues also.

 

[asianobserve]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

https://medium.com/war-is-boring/your-aircraft-carrier-is-a-piece-of-crap-f3f52d299588

xxx

Mother Russia's tugboat bait

The Admiral Kuznetsov, Russia's only aircraft carrier, was launched in 1985 and joined the fleet in 1991. Since then the 55,000-ton, fossil-fuel-powered flattop has managed just four frontline deployments—all of them to the Mediterranean, and all of them just a few months in duration.

By contrast, American flattops typically deploy for at least six months every two years. The nuclear-powered USS Enterprise, commissioned in 1962, completed 25 deployments before leaving service in 2012.

One of Admiral Kuznetsov's major problems is her powerplant. The vessel is powered by steam turbines and turbo-pressurized boilers that Defense Industry Daily generously described as "defective." Anticipating breakdowns, large ocean-going tugs accompany Admiral Kuznetsov whenever she deploys.

Poor maintenance makes life difficult and dangerous for Admiral Kuznetsov's 1,900 sailors. A short circuit started a fire off Turkey in 2009 that killed one seaman.

Her pipes are bad. "When it's this cold, water freezes everywhere including pipes which may cause a rupture," English Russia reported. "To prevent this, they just don't supply almost 60 percent of the cabins with water (neither in winter nor in summer). The situation with latrines is just as bad. The ship has over 50 latrines but half of them are closed."

Almost 2,000 men. Twenty-five latrines. Do the math. Training and morale are so poor that in 2009 Admiral Kuznetsov sailors apparently botched an at-sea refueling, spilling hundreds of tons of fuel into the Irish Sea, pictured at left.

And even when the ship functions as intended, her design limits her utility. Admiral Kuzentsov does not have steam catapults like American flatttops do. Instead, her Sukhoi fighters launch into the air off a bow ramp. The fighters must stay light, meaning they can carry only a few air-to-air missiles and a partial fuel load. Their patrol endurance is measured in minutes rather than hours.

English Russia summed up the Russian aircraft carrier's fundamental limitations succinctly. "Actual aircrafts visit this ship pretty rarely."

Moscow appreciates its flattop problem and has vague plans to replace Admiral Kuznetsov sometime in the 2020s, by which time planners can realistically expect to have deployed the decrepit old lady maybe two or three more times.

xxx

 

[Hari Sud]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

Did I not say in this forum in another threads many times that it will be a while before Chinese aircraft carriers become a potent force. It requires training, experience and well made hardware before the aircraft carrier or their nuclear submarines threaten anybody. Chinese have none of either the forgoing stated jewels.

News items will always be emanating from Chinese as well friendly sources that China has achieved this or that. All that is for publicity purposes. In a firefight, a competent enemy will beat the hell out of them.

 

[Illusive]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

I wonder how mig29k fares in full weapon loadout and fuel while taking off.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

I wonder how mig29k fares in full weapon loadout and fuel while taking off.

This is from asianobserves' post:

And even when the ship functions as intended, her design limits her utility. Admiral Kuzentsov does not have steam catapults like American flatttops do. Instead, her Sukhoi fighters launch into the air off a bow ramp. The fighters must stay light, meaning they can carry only a few air-to-air missiles and a partial fuel load. Their patrol endurance is measured in minutes rather than hours.

So the answer to your question would be "splash."

 

[Hari Sud]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

Here is another report on Chinese Aircraft Carrier Engine trouble.

Indian Strategic Studies: China’s Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power

China's Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ch...e-spewing-steam-and-losing-power-29dae6cd9fdf

'Liaoning' shut down during recent sea trials

There's no more of a conspicuous and potent symbol of China's growing naval power than the aircraft carrier Liaoning.

But the 53,000-ton, 999-foot-long carrier could be dangerous to her crew and prone to engine failures. If so, that makes the vessel as much of a liability as an asset to Beijing.

The ex-Soviet carrier once went by the name Varyag until a cash-strapped Ukraine sold the ship to Beijing in 1998. The Chinese navy has since invested considerable resources into modernizing the warship and testing her at sea.

But on at least one occasion during recent sea trials, Liaoning appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier's electrical power system. The failure, reported by Chinese media site Sina.com, resulting from a leak in "the machine oven compartment to the water pipes."

We're only able to glimpse at the carrier's engine problems, as we know very little about what's inside the ship. This includes even what kind of enginesLiaoning has.

The Chinese government also doesn't like to admit to problems with its military hardware. When it does—and that's never guaranteed—the admissions often come months or years after problems come up.

The Liaoning battle group during sea trials. Photo via China Defense Blog. At top—Varyag under tow. Photo via Naval War College/Wikimedia

During the accident, hot water and steam began "spewing" out of the engine's oven compartment, Sina.com reported. One cabin became "instantly submerged in water vapor," the report added.

The crew immediately evacuated the cabin, with one officer apparently pulling a sailor out by his collar to save him from the extremely hot steam. The carrier then lost power, but the crew "eventually restored power to ensure the smooth operation of the ship."

Fortunately, this doesn't appear to have been a catastrophic boiler failure of the kind that would unleash almost instantaneously lethal, high-pressure steam. It's possible Liaoning instead suffered a low-pressure steam release involving a faulty heat exchanger. Vessels commonly use heat exchangers to control water temperature necessary for regulating internal power and heating.

The Chinese navy began modernizing the ex-Varyag in 2005—essentially rebuilding the carrier from the inside. New electronics, self-defense anti-aircraft guns and new engines were just some of the upgrades. The warship in her unimproved condition was a "basket case," an unnamed officer told the Website.

Engine failures are not an unknown phenomenon aboard ex-Soviet carriers. The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya—first a SovietKiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004—temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago.


The 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov also goes nowherewithout a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway.

The Chinese navy isn't going to get rid of Liaoning any time soon. She's Beijing's first serviceable carrier and the ship is a valuable resource for naval flight operations. Even if China never sends her into battle, she's useful for training and learning how carriers work.

But powerplant problems can also make it so China can do little else. Failures can add costly repairs, shorten the vessel's lifespan and force her to crawl along the water at slow speeds. Beijing also lacks large overseas naval bases—a necessity if trouble arises while Liaoning sails far from China's shores.

If she ever does. Liaoning is more alike to its ex-Soviet cousins than different—confined to home ports and restricted from challenging rivals like India.

"Since China began to send navy convoys on anti-piracy missions to the Gulf of Aden and the Somali coast in 2008," military analyst Liu Zhongmin wrote in Global Times in 2010. "The lack of overseas bases has emerged as a major impediment to the Chinese navy's cruising efficiency."

Now add the possibility of engine problems.
Posted by Strategic Studies at 00:25

 

[CCP]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

Here is another report on Chinese Aircraft Carrier Engine trouble.

Indian Strategic Studies: China's Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power

China's Aircraft Carrier Trouble—Spewing Steam and Losing Power
https://medium.com/war-is-boring/ch...e-spewing-steam-and-losing-power-29dae6cd9fdf

'Liaoning' shut down during recent sea trials

There's no more of a conspicuous and potent symbol of China's growing naval power than the aircraft carrier Liaoning.

But the 53,000-ton, 999-foot-long carrier could be dangerous to her crew and prone to engine failures. If so, that makes the vessel as much of a liability as an asset to Beijing.

The ex-Soviet carrier once went by the name Varyag until a cash-strapped Ukraine sold the ship to Beijing in 1998. The Chinese navy has since invested considerable resources into modernizing the warship and testing her at sea.

But on at least one occasion during recent sea trials, Liaoning appeared to suffer a steam explosion which temporarily knocked out the carrier's electrical power system. The failure, reported by Chinese media site Sina.com, resulting from a leak in "the machine oven compartment to the water pipes."

We're only able to glimpse at the carrier's engine problems, as we know very little about what's inside the ship. This includes even what kind of enginesLiaoning has.

The Chinese government also doesn't like to admit to problems with its military hardware. When it does—and that's never guaranteed—the admissions often come months or years after problems come up.

The Liaoning battle group during sea trials. Photo via China Defense Blog. At top—Varyag under tow. Photo via Naval War College/Wikimedia

During the accident, hot water and steam began "spewing" out of the engine's oven compartment, Sina.com reported. One cabin became "instantly submerged in water vapor," the report added.

The crew immediately evacuated the cabin, with one officer apparently pulling a sailor out by his collar to save him from the extremely hot steam. The carrier then lost power, but the crew "eventually restored power to ensure the smooth operation of the ship."

Fortunately, this doesn't appear to have been a catastrophic boiler failure of the kind that would unleash almost instantaneously lethal, high-pressure steam. It's possible Liaoning instead suffered a low-pressure steam release involving a faulty heat exchanger. Vessels commonly use heat exchangers to control water temperature necessary for regulating internal power and heating.

The Chinese navy began modernizing the ex-Varyag in 2005—essentially rebuilding the carrier from the inside. New electronics, self-defense anti-aircraft guns and new engines were just some of the upgrades. The warship in her unimproved condition was a "basket case," an unnamed officer told the Website.

Engine failures are not an unknown phenomenon aboard ex-Soviet carriers. The 40,000-ton displacement Indian carrier Vikramaditya—first a SovietKiev-class carrier commissioned in 1987 and sold in 2004—temporarily shut down at sea after a boiler overheated two years ago.


The 50,000-ton Russian carrier Admiral Kuznetsov also goes nowherewithout a tug escort in case her engines break down while underway.

The Chinese navy isn't going to get rid of Liaoning any time soon. She's Beijing's first serviceable carrier and the ship is a valuable resource for naval flight operations. Even if China never sends her into battle, she's useful for training and learning how carriers work.

But powerplant problems can also make it so China can do little else. Failures can add costly repairs, shorten the vessel's lifespan and force her to crawl along the water at slow speeds. Beijing also lacks large overseas naval bases—a necessity if trouble arises while Liaoning sails far from China's shores.

If she ever does. Liaoning is more alike to its ex-Soviet cousins than different—confined to home ports and restricted from challenging rivals like India.

"Since China began to send navy convoys on anti-piracy missions to the Gulf of Aden and the Somali coast in 2008," military analyst Liu Zhongmin wrote in Global Times in 2010. "The lack of overseas bases has emerged as a major impediment to the Chinese navy's cruising efficiency."

Now add the possibility of engine problems.
Posted by Strategic Studies at 00:25

Video from today ( include engine room)

央视首曝航母机舱 机电长透露更强国产航母-20141020军事报道-凤凰视频-最具媒体品质的综合视频门户-凤凰网

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

@CCP I enjoyed the video (with listening to machinery at 2:20 -- good engineer!).

There was an aircraft landing on vessel but none shown taking off. Is there a video with take-off?

 

[CCP]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

@<a href="http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/member.php?u=14152" target="_blank">CCP</a> I enjoyed the video (with listening to machinery at 2:20 -- good engineer!).

There was an aircraft landing on vessel but none shown taking off. Is there a video with take-off?

 

[Illusive]

Re: China's Only Air Craft Carrier Is Having Some Technical Difficulti

This is from asianobserves' post:



So the answer to your question would be "splash."

My question was precisely to that quote, because S33 is a larger and heavier aircraft than mig29K, so does this difference work in favour of mig29 cause India selected mig29k over Su33 for carrier operation keeping in mind the ski jump takeoff method which will be the main stay for quite a few years until we get catapult systems in newer carriers. Just wanted to know the mission endurance of Indian mig29k on full load compared to su 33.