PLA just keeps it a secret so I don't know! I think it maybe a J10-X :stinker:
We just meet some serious problems when develop jet engines.
China's Fifth-Generation Fighters
- Thread starter bengalraider
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We just meet some serious problems when develop jet engines.
The 4G fighter project is not relevant to the J-10 and the prototype is scheduled to fly before the April 30, 2010. The engine does not have problem as the WS-10A. Hope Russian "Su-27G" can make it earlier before that date.
By the way here is an old piece of informative "official leak" on successful testing of Chinese fighter AESA:
"In 2008, with full independent intellectual property rights of the phased-array fire-control radar, successfully completed the certification test flight of an aircraft, the thunder and lightning, and group homes to the military authorities made a report evoked a strong response in the military, and are subject to the military Party leaders at all levels of attention. Jin-Wen-chun deputy commander of the Air Force made a special trip to Wuxi to understand the situation, after hearing the report said: "At first, ×-generation aircraft project, I have two concerns, first, the engine problems, the second is the issue of phased array radar. Today's perspective, the radar problem has been resolved, and we already have their own phased array radar. " Air Force officers and air mounted heads of concern to the thunder and lightning a great hospital inspiration and encouragement. The project completed its aircraft certification test flights, the original Industry for National Defense held in Beijing, organized the outcome of Appraisal Meeting, the participating experts to seriously understand the situation gives a high degree of flight test assessment: "The phased-array radar research and development, created a national board fire-control radar, a new era, filled the domestic X-band phased-array fire-control radar blank, for our country × generation machine has laid a solid foundation for the development, marking China's first generation of fighter aircraft to enhance the combat effectiveness of × time has come. " The project also won the first prize in the annual national defense scientific and technological achievements."--Google translated
´´Ð³¬Ô½´Ù·¢Õ¹--¼ÇÖк½¹¤ÒµÀ×µçÔº³¤ÕÅÀ¥»Ô_ÐÐÒµ¾«Ó¢_Öйúº½¿ÕÐÂÎÅÍø
China has several AESA radar development projects. The radar described above was developed by No 607 Institute. Another AESA radar coded 1495 (No 14 Institute) was also certified later.
X-band AESA is being produced to retrofit into J-10s and J-11s.
"In 2008, with full independent intellectual property rights of the phased-array fire-control radar, successfully completed the certification test flight of an aircraft, the thunder and lightning, and group homes to the military authorities made a report evoked a strong response in the military, and are subject to the military Party leaders at all levels of attention. Jin-Wen-chun deputy commander of the Air Force made a special trip to Wuxi to understand the situation, after hearing the report said: "At first, ×-generation aircraft project, I have two concerns, first, the engine problems, the second is the issue of phased array radar. Today's perspective, the radar problem has been resolved, and we already have their own phased array radar. " Air Force officers and air mounted heads of concern to the thunder and lightning a great hospital inspiration and encouragement. The project completed its aircraft certification test flights, the original Industry for National Defense held in Beijing, organized the outcome of Appraisal Meeting, the participating experts to seriously understand the situation gives a high degree of flight test assessment: "The phased-array radar research and development, created a national board fire-control radar, a new era, filled the domestic X-band phased-array fire-control radar blank, for our country × generation machine has laid a solid foundation for the development, marking China's first generation of fighter aircraft to enhance the combat effectiveness of × time has come. " The project also won the first prize in the annual national defense scientific and technological achievements."--Google translated
´´Ð³¬Ô½´Ù·¢Õ¹--¼ÇÖк½¹¤ÒµÀ×µçÔº³¤ÕÅÀ¥»Ô_ÐÐÒµ¾«Ó¢_Öйúº½¿ÕÐÂÎÅÍø
China has several AESA radar development projects. The radar described above was developed by No 607 Institute. Another AESA radar coded 1495 (No 14 Institute) was also certified later.
X-band AESA is being produced to retrofit into J-10s and J-11s.
中国人都知道4代和j10的差别。我们还是配合战略忽悠局，降低中国威胁论吧。倒时候给老外们一个措手不及，哈哈
China is a peaceful country and no threat to others! Many foreigners misunderstood our general since our 4th generation fighter is in Russian standard. F-22 and F35 are the 5th generation fighter and J-XX is the 4th generation actually!
you must be working for General Zhang, aren't you? lol
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国家战略忽悠总局NSFBC("The National Strategy Foolyou Bureau of China") let me warn you of it.
p2prada
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It only says Phased array radar, does not say if it's active or passive. The antennas make the difference.
LETHALFORCE
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What features make this plane a fifth generation plane? Chinese think they have advanced ahead of Russia in warplanes when they still have to buy the engines from Russia or reverse engineer whatever they can get?
Now I am highly confused.....
What I understand is that chinese 3rd gen plane = 4th gen standard (western)
So by that logic J-XX will be in 5th gen category(western):viannen_51:
Did I miss something??
Chinese examined PESAs Russians supplied and found it did not award much advantages compared to our latest PD radars. We simply went for the AESA.
In China, we don't have the word "J-XX"! It is called by foreigners. The modified J10 may be 4.75 - 4.8 gen fighter( western)
There are no official committee sitting around creating criterias. What would prompt the industry to call a design a generational leap instead of an evolutionary move would be when the design contains foundational differences from the current designs. An excellent example would be the F-16 when its avionics was analog, but advanced analog, fly-by-wire flight control system (FLCS). Blended body-wing. Oversized single engine. Relaxed pitch axis stability, although WW I biplanes technically were the first to have relaxed stability, they just need exceptional skills to fly, but they were so simple in other areas the pilot can allocate most of his attention to flying.
The official 'unofficial' standard for 'fifth generation' would be relaxed pitch axis fly-by-wire FLCS. Active ESA radar. Blended body-wing planform. Less than one meter square radar cross section at 200 km, the distance is important and this criteria is from a clean F-16 and what made the F-16 so dangerous back then. Supercruise, but this is not a 'must have' feature. Internalized weapons, the F-22 and F-35 can carry external stores as an option when low RCS is not needed.
Notice 'glass cockpit' is not listed as if the design is capable of these features, the avionics MUST be commensurate, meaning it is a given that the country must have sufficiently advanced avionics to wield these features. Air refueling is not listed since this is pretty much a given today. In short, there really is no official consensus as to what constitute a generation except by general agreements among the air forces that so-and-so aircraft is preferable over so-and-so because of this and that feature.
Hope that helps a little.
jakojako777
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China Close To Testing Next-Gen JXX Fighter
China Close To Testing Next-Gen Fighter | AVIATION WEEK
China Close To Testing Next-Gen Fighter
Nov 13, 2009
Bradley Perrett/Beijing
A Chinese fighter of nominally the same technology generation as the Lockheed Martin F-22 will soon enter flight testing, while a jet airlifter larger than the Airbus A400M should be unveiled by year-end.
Beijing’s fighter announcement suggests a serious failing in U.S. intelligence assessments, mocking a July 16 statement of U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates that China would have no fifth-generation fighters by 2020. Industrial competition looks more remote than strategic competition, however, since China will want to fill domestic requirements before offering the aircraft abroad, even if it judges export sales to be a wise policy.
The new fighter “is currently under development,” says Gen. He Weirong, deputy air force chief. “[It] may soon undertake its first flight, quickly enter flight testing and then quickly equip the forces.
“According to the current situation, [the entry into service] may take another eight to 10 years,” he adds.
No details of the aircraft were given, but it is almost certainly designed for supersonic cruise without afterburning. In April, Adm. Wu Shengli, the navy chief, listed supercruising fighters among equipment that his service needed. Notably, all the other equipment on his wish list looked quite achievable by the end of the next decade, matching the timing that the air force now suggests for the fighter.
China classifies aircraft of the F-22’s technology level as fourth-generation fighters, although they are called fifth-generation aircraft in the West. China’s current advanced fighter, the J-10, is locally called a third-generation aircraft, which in Chinese terms means that it is comparable with the Lockheed Martin F-16.
Work on “the fourth-generation aircraft is now proceeding intensely,” He says.
Whether the upcoming fighter is really comparable with the F-22 remains to be seen. Low radar reflectivity would not be surprising, since aircraft and missiles with stealthy shapes are now popping up in many countries, including South Korea as recently as last month (AW&ST Oct. 26-Nov. 2, p. 42). But sensor performance, information fusion and maximum supercruise speed would also be assessed critically in measuring a claim to have caught up with technology levels that the U.S. did not deploy until 2005.
The existence of a Chinese fifth-generation fighter, usually tagged J-XX, has been rumored for years without official confirmation.
If the aircraft does go into service before 2020, then at that time China may well have jumped past Britain, France and other Western European countries in terms of deployed, domestically developed combat-aircraft technology. That will depend on how quickly those countries move to field combat drones to replace current strike aircraft, says Andrew Brookes of the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
Brookes takes seriously the Chinese objective of technology equivalent to the F-22, and he sees no reason to doubt that the F-22 would be the standard against which they would judge their design. The know-how can be imported.
“The Russians have the technology and the Chinese have the money,” he says. “If they really set that as a target, then I think they can do it.”
The aircraft may not bother Western manufacturers in export markets, Brookes suggests, simply because an equivalent of the F-22 would be a destabilizing export that China would be prefer to keep to itself.
Even if China decides that it wants to export the fighter, Lockheed Martin should by then be well entrenched with the F-35, which should be mature and reliable at that point. Other manufactures may not be so well placed, however.
Gen. He made his remarks during an interview on China Central Television as part of the celebrations of the 60th anniversary of the air force of the People’s Republic of China. (The general’s surname is pronounced as “her” but without the “r.”)
China is probably working on two fifth-generation concepts, says Richard Fisher of the International Assessment and Strategy Center. One of those concepts, appearing most commonly in bits and pieces of evidence that have turned up from time to time, would be a heavy twin-engine fighter probably of about the same size as the F-22. The other is a single-engine aircraft probably closer to the Lockheed Martin F-35.
Gen. He could be referring to either of the aircraft when predicting an entry into service during the next decade. Fisher’s bet is that he is talking about the twin-engine concept.
Like Brookes, Fisher believes China is realistically aiming at the F-22’s technology level. “One has to assume that the People’s Liberation Army is confident in its projections, as it almost never makes such comments about future military programs, especially one that has been as closely held as its next-generation fighter.
“As such, one has to be asking very hard questions: How did the U.S. intelligence community get this one wrong? And inasmuch as no one expects the F-35 to replace the F-22 in the air superiority role, is it time to acknowledge that F-22 production termination is premature and that a much higher number is needed to sustain deterrence in Asia?”
In his July 16 speech, Gates said that even in 2025 China would have but a handful of fifth-generation aircraft.
The new Chinese fighter could come from the Chengdu or Shenyang plants of Avic Defense.
Gen. He says the Chinese air force plans to emphasize development of four capabilities: reconnaissance and early warning, air strike, strategic supply, and air and missile defense.
The J-10 began large-scale service entry in 2006, state media say.
When Wu raised the prospect of a supercruising fighter, an easy answer seemed to be an advanced version of the J-10. That looks less likely now that He describes the future concept as a full generation ahead of the J-10.
“I believe the Chinese have a difficult road if their design is tied to the J-10,” says a U.S. Air Force officer involved in the development of the F-35. “Significantly reduced signature requires more than coatings. It requires an integrated design philosophy with the right shaping, the right structure and the right surface coatings.”
Fisher assumes that China is developing improved fourth-generation fighters in parallel with the fifth generation.
The existence of the airlifter has been known for several years, if only because pictures of it have appeared fleetingly in presentations by the Chinese aviation conglomerate Avic.
As expected, it turns out to be a product of Avic’s large-airplane subsidiary, Avic Aircraft and, more specifically, of the subsidiary’s core plant, Xi’an Aircraft.
Avic Aircraft General Manager Hu Xiaofeng says the airlifter is in the 200-metric-ton class and will be unveiled at the end of this year.
In fact, its design has already unveiled in pictures shown by state media. The four-engine aircraft adopts the universal high-wing, T-tail configuration. The wing is mounted on top of the circular body, rather than passing through a deep segment of it and cutting out much of the usable cross-section. In that respect it is like the A400M, Ilyushin Il-76 and Kawasaki C-X but unlike the C-17, whose embedded wing presents less frontal area.
The main gear of the Chinese aircraft is housed in very protuberant sponsons, like those of the C-17.
A photograph of the cockpit shows five electronic displays of moderate size and conventional transport-style control columns. Engines are not revealed but would presumably be imported from Russia. A wind-tunnel model shows the engines are enclosed in long nacelles, like those of the Perm PS-90 from Russia.
The PS-90 has a standard maximum thrust of 35,300 lb. in its latest version. The C-17, with a gross weight of 265 tons, is powered by four Pratt & Whitney F117 engines of 40,400 lb. thrust.
The airlifter’s fuselage appears to be of conventional metal construction. The aircraft will be significantly larger than the A400M, which has a 141-metric-ton gross weight.
Hu says it has been independently developed in China. However, his parent company, Avic, has a long history of cooperation with Ukrainian airlifter specialist Antonov.
With David A. Fulghum in Washington.
China Close To Testing Next-Gen Fighter | AVIATION WEEK
China Close To Testing Next-Gen Fighter
Nov 13, 2009
Bradley Perrett/Beijing
A Chinese fighter of nominally the same technology generation as the Lockheed Martin F-22 will soon enter flight testing, while a jet airlifter larger than the Airbus A400M should be unveiled by year-end.
Beijing’s fighter announcement suggests a serious failing in U.S. intelligence assessments, mocking a July 16 statement of U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates that China would have no fifth-generation fighters by 2020. Industrial competition looks more remote than strategic competition, however, since China will want to fill domestic requirements before offering the aircraft abroad, even if it judges export sales to be a wise policy.
The new fighter “is currently under development,” says Gen. He Weirong, deputy air force chief. “[It] may soon undertake its first flight, quickly enter flight testing and then quickly equip the forces.
“According to the current situation, [the entry into service] may take another eight to 10 years,” he adds.
No details of the aircraft were given, but it is almost certainly designed for supersonic cruise without afterburning. In April, Adm. Wu Shengli, the navy chief, listed supercruising fighters among equipment that his service needed. Notably, all the other equipment on his wish list looked quite achievable by the end of the next decade, matching the timing that the air force now suggests for the fighter.
China classifies aircraft of the F-22’s technology level as fourth-generation fighters, although they are called fifth-generation aircraft in the West. China’s current advanced fighter, the J-10, is locally called a third-generation aircraft, which in Chinese terms means that it is comparable with the Lockheed Martin F-16.
Work on “the fourth-generation aircraft is now proceeding intensely,” He says.
Whether the upcoming fighter is really comparable with the F-22 remains to be seen. Low radar reflectivity would not be surprising, since aircraft and missiles with stealthy shapes are now popping up in many countries, including South Korea as recently as last month (AW&ST Oct. 26-Nov. 2, p. 42). But sensor performance, information fusion and maximum supercruise speed would also be assessed critically in measuring a claim to have caught up with technology levels that the U.S. did not deploy until 2005.
The existence of a Chinese fifth-generation fighter, usually tagged J-XX, has been rumored for years without official confirmation.
If the aircraft does go into service before 2020, then at that time China may well have jumped past Britain, France and other Western European countries in terms of deployed, domestically developed combat-aircraft technology. That will depend on how quickly those countries move to field combat drones to replace current strike aircraft, says Andrew Brookes of the International Institute for Strategic Studies.
Brookes takes seriously the Chinese objective of technology equivalent to the F-22, and he sees no reason to doubt that the F-22 would be the standard against which they would judge their design. The know-how can be imported.
“The Russians have the technology and the Chinese have the money,” he says. “If they really set that as a target, then I think they can do it.”
The aircraft may not bother Western manufacturers in export markets, Brookes suggests, simply because an equivalent of the F-22 would be a destabilizing export that China would be prefer to keep to itself.
Even if China decides that it wants to export the fighter, Lockheed Martin should by then be well entrenched with the F-35, which should be mature and reliable at that point. Other manufactures may not be so well placed, however.
Gen. He made his remarks during an interview on China Central Television as part of the celebrations of the 60th anniversary of the air force of the People’s Republic of China. (The general’s surname is pronounced as “her” but without the “r.”)
China is probably working on two fifth-generation concepts, says Richard Fisher of the International Assessment and Strategy Center. One of those concepts, appearing most commonly in bits and pieces of evidence that have turned up from time to time, would be a heavy twin-engine fighter probably of about the same size as the F-22. The other is a single-engine aircraft probably closer to the Lockheed Martin F-35.
Gen. He could be referring to either of the aircraft when predicting an entry into service during the next decade. Fisher’s bet is that he is talking about the twin-engine concept.
Like Brookes, Fisher believes China is realistically aiming at the F-22’s technology level. “One has to assume that the People’s Liberation Army is confident in its projections, as it almost never makes such comments about future military programs, especially one that has been as closely held as its next-generation fighter.
“As such, one has to be asking very hard questions: How did the U.S. intelligence community get this one wrong? And inasmuch as no one expects the F-35 to replace the F-22 in the air superiority role, is it time to acknowledge that F-22 production termination is premature and that a much higher number is needed to sustain deterrence in Asia?”
In his July 16 speech, Gates said that even in 2025 China would have but a handful of fifth-generation aircraft.
The new Chinese fighter could come from the Chengdu or Shenyang plants of Avic Defense.
Gen. He says the Chinese air force plans to emphasize development of four capabilities: reconnaissance and early warning, air strike, strategic supply, and air and missile defense.
The J-10 began large-scale service entry in 2006, state media say.
When Wu raised the prospect of a supercruising fighter, an easy answer seemed to be an advanced version of the J-10. That looks less likely now that He describes the future concept as a full generation ahead of the J-10.
“I believe the Chinese have a difficult road if their design is tied to the J-10,” says a U.S. Air Force officer involved in the development of the F-35. “Significantly reduced signature requires more than coatings. It requires an integrated design philosophy with the right shaping, the right structure and the right surface coatings.”
Fisher assumes that China is developing improved fourth-generation fighters in parallel with the fifth generation.
The existence of the airlifter has been known for several years, if only because pictures of it have appeared fleetingly in presentations by the Chinese aviation conglomerate Avic.
As expected, it turns out to be a product of Avic’s large-airplane subsidiary, Avic Aircraft and, more specifically, of the subsidiary’s core plant, Xi’an Aircraft.
Avic Aircraft General Manager Hu Xiaofeng says the airlifter is in the 200-metric-ton class and will be unveiled at the end of this year.
In fact, its design has already unveiled in pictures shown by state media. The four-engine aircraft adopts the universal high-wing, T-tail configuration. The wing is mounted on top of the circular body, rather than passing through a deep segment of it and cutting out much of the usable cross-section. In that respect it is like the A400M, Ilyushin Il-76 and Kawasaki C-X but unlike the C-17, whose embedded wing presents less frontal area.
The main gear of the Chinese aircraft is housed in very protuberant sponsons, like those of the C-17.
A photograph of the cockpit shows five electronic displays of moderate size and conventional transport-style control columns. Engines are not revealed but would presumably be imported from Russia. A wind-tunnel model shows the engines are enclosed in long nacelles, like those of the Perm PS-90 from Russia.
The PS-90 has a standard maximum thrust of 35,300 lb. in its latest version. The C-17, with a gross weight of 265 tons, is powered by four Pratt & Whitney F117 engines of 40,400 lb. thrust.
The airlifter’s fuselage appears to be of conventional metal construction. The aircraft will be significantly larger than the A400M, which has a 141-metric-ton gross weight.
Hu says it has been independently developed in China. However, his parent company, Avic, has a long history of cooperation with Ukrainian airlifter specialist Antonov.
With David A. Fulghum in Washington.
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I believe there is a thread that has already debunked this myth saying it is going to be a J-10 modification.
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/chinese-defence-forum/6954-chinas-fifth-generation-fighters.html
http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/chinese-defence-forum/6954-chinas-fifth-generation-fighters.html
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yes. It was Rear Admiral Zhang ZhaoZhong, the spokesman of NSFBC (National Strategic Foolyou Bureau of CHina) that debunked the myth.
"fool you" is his duty. Generally speaking, If Rear Admiral Zhang says "yes ", he in fact means "No". If He says "No". it usually means "Yes".
A.V.
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so what exactly is the final word badguy ? when is the first test flight or any other tests any info on chinese media regarding the same
sometimes the western media report this because of their own propaganda any official chinese source can confirm this
sometimes the western media report this because of their own propaganda any official chinese source can confirm this
First of all China has an upgrade program for J-10 and two next-G fighter programs ongoing. If we are referring to the CAF project it's in the prototype production stage. It's likely powered with two Russian engines at the beginning. The deadline of prototype production is April 30. It will fly later this year after initial ground tests.
PS. A Russian IL-76 was spotted at CAF airport shortly before last Christmas and 12 boxes unloaded. It might be new engines bought from our Russian comrade. China has allegedly sponsored development of 99M2-3 engines. 99M2 is more powerful than the present TH, while 117s would be even better.
PS. A Russian IL-76 was spotted at CAF airport shortly before last Christmas and 12 boxes unloaded. It might be new engines bought from our Russian comrade. China has allegedly sponsored development of 99M2-3 engines. 99M2 is more powerful than the present TH, while 117s would be even better.
peterkingwang
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haha , SEE: what a great success of "CHinese Strategy Foolyou Bureau", Cheers!
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