China vetoes Indias loan application at the ADB

[Pintu]

If we wanted we could start an insurgency. If you guys remember, during the time when the Dalai Lama had fled to India, there was a Tibetan insurgency which wanted help from India (it never got any significant help)...

So, what will it take for us to start stoking a "freedom movement" in Tibet ???

Monk , we should not go in that path, because PRC accuses His Holiness Dalai Lama for indulging violent activities, the uprising last year was spontaneous and supported by mass in Tibet, the unarmed Tibetans faced brutal military crack down. We should not deal china with that violence because we can not match a violent person with violence, it will only serve to their interest to make extinct Tibetans in Tibet.

Better, we should go the other way, the economical way. What best we can do, we will pitch our demand for raising our quota in IMF, WB and ADB, in ADB we come next only to China as donor, make our clout felt in this group, and gain enough power to make tit for tat, and don't believe Chinese any way, stop importing Chinese goods which are chip, and stop procuring spare parts of big projects from them, at a time stop importing raw ingredients including the minerals to them.

 

[Flint]

^Exactly. Hit them were it hurts most - economy. Restrict access of Chinese goods to Indian markets etc. etc. lots of ways to go about it.

 

[johnee]

That's gross exaggeration johnee. Tibetans don't face extinction. It would be better if we don't fool ourselves with hyperbole into clouding our judgment.

your opinion depends on wat you consider as extinction. when tibetans lose their centuries old culture, tradition, language, rituals, religion and are forced to accept the commie way of life, it is an extinction. by making tibetans subservient foriegn hans in their own country is slavery. and tibetans flee to different nations to escape this slavery and extinction, they live like refugees in these nations. I dont see any hyperbole here.

 

[Flint]

Again, not true. Tibetans do learn their native language and culture, except that it is modified to be compatible with the Chinese communist discourse. Make what you want of that.

Doesn't it give you a clue that China is appointing Panchen Lama and giving him grand receptions instead of hunting and killing him like in the 1950s?

your opinion depends on wat you consider as extinction. when tibetans lose their centuries old culture, tradition, language, rituals, religion and are forced to accept the commie way of life, it is an extinction. by making tibetans subservient foriegn hans in their own country is slavery. and tibetans flee to different nations to escape this slavery and extinction, they live like refugees in these nations. I dont see any hyperbole here.

 

[Yusuf]

^Exactly. Hit them were it hurts most - economy. Restrict access of Chinese goods to Indian markets etc. etc. lots of ways to go about it.

We cannot do that under WTO rules. Unless there is open hostility and we impose sanctions

 

[Flint]

We cannot do that under WTO rules. Unless there is open hostility and we impose sanctions

Oh comeon there are are lots of ways to circumvent. That way its also not possible to conduct insurgencies under international laws.

For example, brand certain Chinese products as unsafe or falling short of quality controls.

 

[johnee]

Again, not true. Tibetans do learn their native language and culture, except that it is modified to be compatible with the Chinese communist discourse. Make what you want of that.

Doesn't it give you a clue that China is appointing Panchen Lama and giving him grand receptions instead of hunting and killing him like in the 1950s?

all I say is: 'ask a tibetan about wat he feels is happening to his nation'.
its all very well for us foreigners to assume that chinese are sympathetic to tibetans, just ask the tibetans. thats all.

anyway, it doesnt matter whether tibtans are going to be extinct or not. they have been occupied by a foreign force. their leader has said in as many words that tibetans have high hope from india. china is claiming parts of india based on those regions historical relation with tibet. so, its imperative the india question the very basis of that claim: 'validity of china's claim over tibet'. its in our interest as well as the interest of tibetans. nothing stops us excepts our meekness inherited from wrong understanding of 'ahimsa'.
btw, in my opinion india supporting tibetan cause would qualify as 'gandhigiri'.

 

[Flint]

all I say is: 'ask a tibetan about wat he feels is happening to his nation'.
its all very well for us foreigners to assume that chinese are sympathetic to tibetans, just ask the tibetans. thats all.

That's the worst person to ask. Their judgment will be the most clouded because they will be incapable of being objective and seeing things for what they are rather than what they imagine them to be.

anyway, it doesnt matter whether tibtans are going to be extinct or not. they have been occupied by a foreign force. their leader has said in as many words that tibetans have high hope from india. china is claiming parts of india based on those regions historical relation with tibet. so, its imperative the india question the very basis of that claim: 'validity of china's claim over tibet'. its in our interest as well as the interest of tibetans. nothing stops us excepts our meekness inherited from 'ahimsa'.
btw, in my opinion india supporting tibetan cause would qualify as 'gandhigiri'.

So that's it? You give some false labels like 'ahimsa and 'gandhigiri' to prove your point?

 

[johnee]

That's the worst person to ask. Their judgment will be the most clouded because they will be incapable of being objective and seeing things for what they are rather than what they imagine them to be.

but they are ones who are most affected by it. clouded or not, its their judgement that matters. they would also know the ground realities of the horrors while we just read them in newspaper with morning cup of tea.

So that's it? You give some false labels like 'ahimsa and 'gandhigiri' to prove your point?

its the subject that matters not the titles. I put those titles thinking they would appeal to you. selling to a customer........thats all.:blum3:

 

[Soham]

@Johnee.

Tibetan culture is nowhere close to extinction.
The real extinction will come if we spark an anti-China movement, giving the PLA a reason to roll in and massacre every trace of Tibetan existence.

 

[johnee]

@Johnee.

Tibetan culture is nowhere close to extinction.
The real extinction will come if we spark an anti-China movement, giving the PLA a reason to roll in and massacre every trace of Tibetan existence.

now we are seeing a slow, steady, and proper extinction of tibet. while if we support the tibetan armed struggle for freedom, it would be a catalyst for china to erase tibetan existance. I pointed the same in my previous reply to EM.

 

[Soham]

And India's questioning of Tibet being a part of China won't be a catalyst ?
Ultimately there will be an armed struggle, which Tibet will lose to the sheer numbers of the Chinese Army.

And that would be the biggest insult and a disgrace to Tibet as well as us.

 

[johnee]

And India's questioning of Tibet being a part of China won't be a catalyst ?
Ultimately there will be an armed struggle, which Tibet will lose to the sheer numbers of the Chinese Army.

And that would be the biggest insult and a disgrace to Tibet as well as us.

no, india's questioning of validity of china's occupation over tibet wont change the ground realities in tibet. china would have to counter india then, it will do so diplomatically. but the wouldnt be much different from wat it is already doing so. significantly, no much change from china's side.
when I say questioning of china's occupation, there are ways. we can be subtle about it. like some junior minister questioning the validity, infact giving support for tibet's freedom while PM maintaining the india's position has not changed. giving prominent space to dalai lama and his followers in mainstream media. organising some tibet festival in india, where all exiled tibetans can join. basically, asserting india's unique position as both the sypathiser of tibetans and neighbour of china. that will keep chinese on tenterhooks. they would then want to solve it. they might want to bully us or might want to give some concession. if we dont bend to bullying(anyway, they are already bullying us), they will give us concessions. all the time they will be worried that india MIGHT supporting armed tibetan struggle. the prospect of such a move can give us lot of leverage.

 

[ShyAngel]

Is ladakh part of India? And i mean the Independent Tibet nation that existed before China stole it to be clear. like this old british map

Yes India can claim Ladhak is part of India. Actually what happened was Ladhak is part of old indusvalley of Aryavarta. And both indianS and tibetans adept that culture and later these land belong to ancient himalayan kingdom and tibetan thakurs started to rule small kingdoms of their own and that's how Bhutan from northern India, mustang from northern Nepal, and lhadak, kalimpong, Sikim, and Bhutan from northeast and north west India started to form, and many other's in easter Tibet as well. These lands were ruled by independent tibetan thakurs whereas Dalai Lama's yellow head sect ruled the entire Tibet in capital city of Lhasa. Lhadak king lost many of his lands to Punjab sikh king in late 18th century and after that in late 19th century they completely lost their power and the land was gifted to Nehru's India from Mao in name of peaceful liberation. Whereas Bhutan still manage to keep their country safe and strong. And so did the king of skim but, it seem as the king of sikim gave most of his power and land to Karmapa's red head Nyingmapa sect since him being orthodox nyingmapa follower and dus made Nyingmapa sect filthy rich.

 

[ShyAngel]

Again, not true. Tibetans do learn their native language and culture, except that it is modified to be compatible with the Chinese communist discourse. Make what you want of that.

Doesn't it give you a clue that China is appointing Panchen Lama and giving him grand receptions instead of hunting and killing him like in the 1950s?

You are wrong that's not the boy that Dalai Lama founded. Only certain lama can find their teacher and the previous Penchen Lama was His Holiness younger teacher. I'm surprised that you even start trusting these CCP fake lamas. These lamas doesn't mean anything but to used for their dirty politics. So wake up and smell the coffee. Don't be flattered by CCP fake show up so grand receptions of their fake lama and them trying to be oh so religious believer.

 

[Flint]

You are wrong that's not the boy that Dalai Lama founded. Only certain lama can find their teacher and the previous Penchen Lama was His Holiness younger teacher. I'm surprised that you even start trusting these CCP fake lamas. These lamas doesn't mean anything but to used for their dirty politics. So wake up and smell the coffee. Don't be flattered by CCP fake show up so grand receptions of their fake lama and them trying to be oh so religious believer.

Duh. Did I dispute that he's a fake? Why do people always misinterpret my posts?

The fact is that the CCP is attempting to reconcile (in however underhanded a manner) Tibetans with the communist party, and that's not what I call "extinction". Call is subversion, fakery, whatever, but claiming that Tibetans are going extinct is totally inaccurate.

Extinction implies Nazi-style suppression and factory-line killing which is clearly not happening. Infact the basic indicators of health, literacy and life expectancy have improved significantly in Tibet.

BTW -the extinction part is for johnee.

 

[johnee]

Duh. Did I dispute that he's a fake? Why do people always misinterpret my posts?

The fact is that the CCP is attempting to reconcile (in however underhanded a matter) Tibetans with the communist party, and that's not what I call "extinction". Call is subversion, fakery, whatever, but claiming that Tibetans are going extinct is totally inaccurate.

Extinction implies Nazi-style suppression and factory-line killing which is clearly not happening. Infact the basic indicators of health, literacy and life expectancy have improved significantly in Tibet.
BTW -the extinction part is for johnee.

basically, buying the commie propaganda........ fine.:113:

 

[ShyAngel]

Duh. Did I dispute that he's a fake? Why do people always misinterpret my posts?

The fact is that the CCP is attempting to reconcile (in however underhanded a matter) Tibetans with the communist party, and that's not what I call "extinction". Call is subversion, fakery, whatever, but claiming that Tibetans are going extinct is totally inaccurate.

Extinction implies Nazi-style suppression and factory-line killing which is clearly not happening. Infact the basic indicators of health, literacy and life expectancy have improved significantly in Tibet.

I still don't think so! Just the improvement and modernization of modern industry and technology is not everything. You'll also have to look at its quality as well. Make sure if its a win win situation or if its more loss loss situation. Think of how much badly environmental effect has given to our Tibet. If its really all about the improvement of literacy and life expectancy of Tibetan people, then we tibetans in exile are not less then these china man from China. The only difference is we were more passive and religious then they are and there for we were at different stages of life in early 1950s. If that's the case then Tibetans in Nepal used to run and own the most of Nepal's biggest industry and they employeed thousands and thousands of native nepali's from village and give them home to live and work to bring food on their table. So Tibetans were not doing that bad even in the times of pre occupation as well. We are not less smarter then they are when it comes to doing business and we were not less smarter then they were when it comes to literacy and we were not less richer then they are when it comes to keeping our nation rich in culture and being civilized. Then from what angle have China done any good to us. The only thing is we left behind because we believed in non violence and we are peaceful people. But it is also incorrect to underestimate tibetan in comparison to china or chinese. Remember tibetans are refuge just in name but in reality they don't take anything for free and instead they give more benefit to the lives of local people in where ever they live. So please stop phrasing china their government.

 

[Flint]

I still don't think so! Just the improvement and modernization of modern industry and technology is not everything. You'll also have to look at its quality as well. Make sure if its a win win situation or if its more loss loss situation. Think of how much badly environmental effect has given to our Tibet. If its really all about the improvement of literacy and life expectancy of Tibetan people, then we tibetans in exile are not less then these china man from China. The only difference is we were more passive and religious then they are and they for we were at different stages of life in early 1950s. If that's the case then Tibetans in Nepal used to run and own the most of Nepal's biggest industry and they employee thousands and thousands of native nepali's from village and give them home to live and work to bring food on their table. So Tibetans were not that bad even pre occupation as well. We are not less smarter then they are when it comes to doing business and we were not less smarter then they were when it comes to literacy and we were not less richer then they are when it comes to keeping our nation rich in culture and being civilized. Then from what angle have China done any good to us. The only thing is be left behind because we believed in non violence and we are peaceful people. But it is also incorrect to underestimate tibetan in comparison to china or chinese. Remember tibetans are refuge just in name but in reality they don't take anything for free and instead they give more benefit to the lives of local people in where ever they live. So please stop phrasing china their government.

I agree with most of this - except for your assumption that I argued the opposite of what you are stating. I never said that industry is everything, I never claimed that its all about literacy and life expectancy, nor did I claim that Tibetans are somehow inferior to Chinese. Infact I've always believed that Tibetans could do a much better job of modernizing themselves if they were an independent nation rather than under Chinese colonial occupation.

I am fully aware that tibetans in India are a very enterprising lot, and very highly educated as well. They are certainly not a drag on India's resources and infact they contribute to the Indian economy. I remember saying this exact same thing on another forum.

But - but - I am not going to give into hyperbole just for the pleasure of it, or for that matter to avoid being branded a "china pleaser' or whatever you want to call it.

 

[S.A.T.A]

Trust the Chicoms to find innovative means to vent their collective frustration,first it was the Nanking grannies in front of the Jap embassy, now this........

I hope this has made the headlines in Arunachal Pradesh's newspapers and TV....