China versus India, A Great Asian Race.

[skywatcher]

So is modern China which isn't even remotely communist.

China would have been a backward society if not a sub-Saharan style shithole till date if Deng wasn't there.
Communism just doesn't work in real world. It's just a pleasant hangover music for emotional motivation.

Why? Communist Soviet Union was backward?

I believe communism shouldn't be responsible for underdevelopment

 

[Hari Sud]

Will Chinese try again in the Spring of 2023

The overconfident and belligerent Chinese will come again to grab the heights on the McMohan Line which they were beaten back last late Fall. Chinese do want their observation post on the mountain top overlooking Tawang and SELA Pass. They will come again. That is their first step to stage a capture of Tawang town one more time after 1962.

In 1962, they got Tawang but retreated. Later in 1987 they lost all advantages when General Sundarji surprised the Chinese by landing 10,000 troops on Namka Chu overlooking Chinese positions. The Chinese relented and after 8 months retreated back.

In 2017, they made an undue effort to grab the Doklam Plateau; but vigilant Indian Army forced them back. Chinese want the Doklam to be able to position their rockets (DF- 15 short range rockets) to target the Siliguri Corridor. India could not let them do that. Moreover Doklam was Bhutanese territory hence need their and Indian concurrence to do anything aggressive in the area.

Then the Chinese went quite for three years and re-appeared in Galwan River valley in Ladakh in the summer of 2020. It is a nondescript valley in Ladakh except that an Indian built road passes about 10 miles away. Chinese wished to be, as close to the road as possible hence they staged the Galwan clash. India would not let them get close to the road resulting in hand to hand fight. Chinese did not win the fight nor could they cross the river to the other side, hence their dream of getting close to the Indian road remained unfulfilled. Loss of life was on both sides.

Two years later in the Fall of 2022, they were at it again but at the McMohan Line probing weaknesses to capture a high ground to interdict the Sela Pass and road to Tawang. They have not succeeded in it and we’re beaten back, but come Spring of 2023, there is every likelihood that they will try again.

If the Chinese are going to stage anything again; they will do it now. It is springtime in Tawang area and the snow has melted away. But Indian Army is too well prepared for a rude shock for them.

 

[no smoking]

Besides nationalism, Mao was China's Nehru, in even worse form. Deng was the one who changed their destiny.

Most of Chinese today don't agree with you.
If you check the history, you will find that:
It was Mao who enforced the land reform which was the key for industrialization;
It was Mao who insisted the development of nuclear weapon which provided the key political bargain for Deng;
It was Mao who lead the divorce between China and Soviet against the will of PLA;
It was Mao who re-built the relationship with US;
It was Mao who re-open the door of China.
In another words, Deng just continued the plan or policy made by Mao.

 

[Indx TechStyle]

Most of Chinese today don't agree with you.

That really doesn't build up the case here.

If you check the history, you will find that:
It was Mao who enforced the land reform which was the key for industrialization;
It was Mao who insisted the development of nuclear weapon which provided the key political bargain for Deng;
It was Mao who lead the divorce between China and Soviet against the will of PLA;
It was Mao who re-built the relationship with US;
It was Mao who re-open the door of China.

In either of above cases, there is absolutely zero original thing which wouldn't happen with a large state like China regardless of Mao. All major states pushed for industrialisation soon after WW2, pushed for nukes. Only thing without Mao would be different could have been relationships with US & USSR (different kind of relationship and not isolation) and probably population.

There wouldn't be that mass human suffering in China if Mao wasn't there

 

[no smoking]

That really doesn't build up the case here.

Well, it does since these Chinese people living through both leaders' period. They have made their judgement based on their own life experience. I believe this judgement is far better than those conclusions you read from those journalists with second-hand information.

In either of above cases, there is absolutely zero original thing which wouldn't happen with a large state like China regardless of Mao. All major states pushed for industrialisation soon after WW2, pushed for nukes.

Certainly there were lots of countries tried to do that, the problem is very few countries succeeded. There were plenty of countries among those failed had a far better starting point than China. For a country like China in 1949 which just put an end to a 38 years long civil war (including 8 years bloody Sino-Japan war), it was mad to pursuit nuke and industrialization. If it wasn't Mao, Chinese leader should have given up long time ago.

For example, in early 1960s when the country was suffering from GLF, some leaders questioned the nuke program. It was Mao who insisted. The interesting part was that Deng was the one of the leaders suggesting the halt of nuke development.

There wouldn't be that mass human suffering in China if Mao wasn't there

Here is another interesting part: more and more CCP documents show Deng and his best buddy Liu were actually more responsible for the GLF, not Mao.

 

[Tshering22]

Did not know where to put this, but this thread seems most relevant given the topic at hand.

Looks like we are increasing our investments big time in Mongolian resource extraction and imports.

We usually dismiss any reports of engagements with Mongolia but given their location between China and Russia, they are an important part of this game.

 

[JaguarWarrior]

India does not have the capacity to challenge China until after 2050.

 

[Hari Sud]

India does not have the capacity to challenge China until after 2050.

‘Global Times view, although good today but in five years unlikely to be true. In five years, all Chinese advantages of infrastructure in Himalayas will be neutralized.

At sea, they have no advantage as any navy (Chinese are totally inexperienced in naval warfare) which travels 4,000 km from its home base and passes thru Straits of Malacca will be thoroughly molested. Moreover, the Chinese navy has not tested its battle capability beyond China Sea area. It is a coastal navy. Occasional patrols in Indian Ocean are for familiarization purposes.

Chinese airforce, has very little chance of crossing the Himalayas and strike India and return home Safely. Crossing Himalayas will be a one way flight for them as much of their fighters will not be able to return back home. Reasons are obvious that their major bases are at least 300 miles from the border and at an altitude of 4000 to 6000 feet above sea level. That means; they either take off with half load of bombs/missiles or half load of fuel. That these are most vulnerable when these are refuelled near the border. IAF with modern airforce and huge technical advantage ( OEM supplied hardware instead of copied or reverse engineered hardware of China) can with ease shoot down these planes.

Their much touted rocket force will face the Indian Brahmos, Paralaya, Prahaar and Nirbhaya. They will not initiate a rocket strike in the Himalayas as they will be forced to run when India return the rocket and missile strike.

Geographically, they have the greatest disadvantages as 80% of their population base is in the east and so is their military positioning. As noted, much of their military strength is opposite Japan, Taiwan, Philippines, Korea, Vietnam etc. Only 30% of their military is in the West including Tibet/Sinkiang/Russia (Ussiri River). Hence facing 1.4 million strong Indian Army is an uphill task for them.

No, they will not have a confrontation with India either in the mountains, air or sea. They will simply intimidate.

The greatest danger comes from Joint action of Pakistan and China. For that, India is working hard to make QUAD operational. One American Aircraft Carrier at the mouth of Karachi will dissuade Pakistan from any action.

‘Hence, get that notion of Chinese might out of your Head.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

India does not have the capacity to challenge China until after 2050.

We are already Challenging. China is on back foot.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

India does not have the capacity to challenge China until after 2050.

We are already Challenging. China is on back foot

 

[Super Flanker]

I think if a war were to break out between India and China, then China would have more to lose than gain, they would suffer from the same issue that Russia is facing in its invasion of Ukraine.

I say this by looking at the on going Russo-Ukrainian war, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine started in late February of 2022 and going on till now, it's been nearly two years now. The Russo-Ukrainian conflict will go on for another three years or more. Both sides are giving their best and neither seems to want to back down at this point, Russia would not want to retreat back now, they have sacrificed thousands of men, hundreds of aircrafts, battle tanks, dozens of ships till now, they will want negotiate for something, now what would that be? I don't know.

What is the strength ratio of Ukrainian army to Russian army? I believe it's 1:10. The Russian military is far more stronger, more advanced and larger in overall size in comparison to the Ukrainian military. Till now the Ukrainian military is fighting back against Russia and I think Russia has learnt a lesson in Ukraine that they will never forget.

How what the ratio of the military strength of India and China? I believe it's around 2:3. Let's take 2:3. China is ahead of India as it has a larger Navy, larger airforce, larger land based army and overall more advanced technology on its side, I think the Indian side is more experienced and battle hardened. I think if China is the aggressor and pulls off a shock and awe type of campaign against India and tries to push into Indian territory then it will end very badly for them. This is what I say, if Indian military is the aggressor and we ingress into China, we will be the losers and if China does the same, they will be the losers. Now some people expect a war between China and Taiwan, if that happens, we will have to see how the conflict plays out.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

India is snatching mobile manufacturing from China. Apple moved.

Tesla is also coming to India.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

I think if a war were to break out between India and China, then China would have more to lose than gain, they would suffer from the same issue that Russia is facing in its invasion of Ukraine.

I say this by looking at the on going Russo-Ukrainian war, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine started in late February of 2022 and going on till now, it's been nearly two years now. The Russo-Ukrainian conflict will go on for another three years or more. Both sides are giving their best and neither seems to want to back down at this point, Russia would not want to retreat back now, they have sacrificed thousands of men, hundreds of aircrafts, battle tanks, dozens of ships till now, they will want negotiate for something, now what would that be? I don't know.

What is the strength ratio of Ukrainian army to Russian army? I believe it's 1:10. The Russian military is far more stronger, more advanced and larger in overall size in comparison to the Ukrainian military. Till now the Ukrainian military is fighting back against Russia and I think Russia has learnt a lesson in Ukraine that they will never forget.

How what the ratio of the military strength of India and China? I believe it's around 2:3. Let's take 2:3. China is ahead of India as it has a larger Navy, larger airforce, larger land based army and overall more advanced technology on its side, I think the Indian side is more experienced and battle hardened. I think if China is the aggressor and pulls off a shock and awe type of campaign against India and tries to push into Indian territory then it will end very badly for them. This is what I say, if Indian military is the aggressor and we ingress into China, we will be the losers and if China does the same, they will be the losers. Now some people expect a war between China and Taiwan, if that happens, we will have to see how the conflict plays out.

In Himalayas, we will prevail. In See, we are placed at a strategic location. Unless, we move to south China sea to attack China, we will over power them in rest of scenarios. No matter how big Chinese navy is, it will not be able to defend against Volley of Brahmos. Long range Brahmos, Mach 4+ Brahmos and Hypersonic Brahmos are in pipe line.

 

[JaguarWarrior]

China has better geography. China is in the 30s latitude. Like Greece, Egypt, Iraq. Mexico, India are in the 20s latitude, not as good geography. The most famous civilizations are in the 30s latitude.

Too north or too south means too little or too much sunlight. Not suitable for civilization. Even Rome at 41 north never produced a single scientist. Romans murdered Archimedes.

 

[Blademaster]

China has better geography. China is in the 30s latitude. Like Greece, Egypt, Iraq. Mexico, India are in the 20s latitude, not as good geography. The most famous civilizations are in the 30s latitude.

Too north or too south means too little or too much sunlight. Not suitable for civilization. Even Rome at 41 north never produced a single scientist. Romans murdered Archimedes.

Another 69 iq post by this retard.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

China has better geography. China is in the 30s latitude. Like Greece, Egypt, Iraq. Mexico, India are in the 20s latitude, not as good geography. The most famous civilizations are in the 30s latitude.

Too north or too south means too little or too much sunlight. Not suitable for civilization. Even Rome at 41 north never produced a single scientist. Romans murdered Archimedes.

Israel is situated in same place where 24 Arab countries are located. Arabs have not invented a niddle where tiny Israel has produced most numbers of scientists.

Conclusion: Your location theory fails measurably.

 

[JaguarWarrior]

Israel is situated in same place where 24 Arab countries are located. Arabs have not invented a niddle where tiny Israel has produced most numbers of scientists.

Conclusion: Your location theory fails measurably.

Arabs lack water. Ancient civs require water. Require river. Egypt has Nile. Iraq has Euphrates and Tigris. China has Yellow river. India has Ganges river. Damascus has Barada river. Only exception is Mexico which not have significant river.

It requires sufficient water and latitude in the 30s not too much sunlight not too little sunlight to foster ancient civ.

China's old capital Luoyang is at 34 latitude. Much further south than modern Chinese capital Beijing which is at 39 latitude.

 

[JaguarWarrior]

Israel is situated in same place where 24 Arab countries are located. Arabs have not invented a niddle where tiny Israel has produced most numbers of scientists.

Conclusion: Your location theory fails measurably.

Israel is ancient Phoenicia which is very well known. Damascus is also very well known. Arabs were from the desert areas in the east where there is no water. Ancient Egypt, Iraq, Syria were never Arabs.

 

[JaguarWarrior]

China has excellent geography. China is mainly in the 30s latitude. The old capital Luoyang is at 34 N. Beijing is at 39 N. Also, China has Yellow river. India has Ganges river but like Mexico India is mainly in the 20s latitude which means too little seasonal variation and too much sunlight to develop into a Tier 1 power like China. It is unlikely India can challenge China.

 

[spacemarine2023]

China has excellent geography. China is mainly in the 30s latitude. The old capital Luoyang is at 34 N. Beijing is at 39 N. Also, China has Yellow river. India has Ganges river but like Mexico India is mainly in the 20s latitude which means too little seasonal variation and too much sunlight to develop into a Tier 1 power like China. It is unlikely India can challenge China.

What about Wakanda, what are your views on same I concur they got lucky with vibranium but still to develop the spaceships and energy shields able to take down an astroid.
They sit much below 30 degree latitude,
I bet wakanda wins 10 out of 10 times against china..
And Atlantis hnnn what abt them they dont even has sunlight ..