China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter jet

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,763
Cyber spies in China 'stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter jet'

TOP secret documents have reportedly revealed that Chinese spies stole key design information about Australia's new Joint Strike Fighter, the F-35 Lighting II.

The documents, which were disclosed by former US National Security Agency intelligence contractor Edward Snowden to German magazine Der Spiegel, show that Chinese cyber spies stole "huge volumes" of sensitive military information relating to the plane.

The stolen information includes details of the fighter's radar systems, engine schematics, methods for cooling exhaust gas and "aft deck heating contour maps", Fairfax Media reports.

The Snowden documents reportedly confirm the Australian government has been informed of the cyber-espionage.


Shenyang J-31 ... China's most advanced fighter jet. Source: Supplied


Chengdu J-20 ... China's first attempt at a stealth fighter. Source: Supplied

The Snowden documents appear to be the first public confirmation of the long-held suspicion that the F-35 has been the target of Chinese cyber-espionage.

As reported last week, China's new fifth-generation fighters, including its first attempt at a stealth fighter — the Chengdu J-20 — have significantly eroded the West's superiority in the skies.

Experts have speculated that the Chengdu J-20 and China's most advanced fighter jet, the Shenyang J-31 Falcon Hawk, have been heavily influenced by US design.

The Falcon Hawk has roughly the same appearance as the F-35.

Fairfax reports the data breach occurred at the main contractor Lockheed Martin in 2007, which predates Australia's acquisition of the aircraft.

In June 2013, Defense Department acquisitions chief Frank Kendall told a US Senate hearing that he was "reasonably confident" classified information related to the development of the F-35 was protected.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced in April last year that Australia would buy 58 F-35 jets for $12 billion, bringing Australia's total JSF fleet to 72.

The Snowden documents show that Chinese cyber-spies stole the equivalent of five Libraries of Congress, amounting to 50 terabytes of data.

Among the sensitive military technologies included in the breach was information about the B-2 stealth bomber, the F-22 Raptor stealth fighter, nuclear submarine and military personnel records.

The documents also show that the US National Security Agency (NSA) spied on China's espionage agencies. The NSA hacked the computer of a senior Chinese military official and stole information about Chinese intelligence targets in the US government and other foreign governments.



Cyber spies in China 'stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter jet'
China at its best skill -stealing and claiming it as its own 'home grown'.

What a way to go.
 
Last edited:

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,137
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

What goes around, comes around. The US stole German scientists after the war to develop their space program etc... Nothing new under the sun. Honestly, if I compare what Chinese are doing to what other developing nations are doing, looks like it is better to stole state of the art solutions, rather that develop something of your own based on 60´s tech.

This is true in military solutions only, in love and war everything is permitted. Copying something on the consumer market must not be tolerated.
 
Last edited:

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

What goes around, comes around. The US stole German scientists after the war to develop their space program etc... Nothing new under the sun. Honestly, if I compare what Chinese are doing to what other developing nations are doing, looks like it is better to stole state of the art solutions, rather that develop something of your own based on 60´s tech.

This is true in military solutions only, in love and war everything is permitted. Copying something on the consumer market must not be tolerated.
Except that Chinese steal those designs to stamp their hegemony in Asia.

China is a regime which has no respect for human rights and is eyeing other nations territories.

The stealing of the tech. proves dangerous for Chinese since US already know the weakness of their designs. Only thing Chinese benefit from stealing the designs and tech is that they can produce the same product and sell it cheap. But since the wages and standard of living has risen in China that advantage is lost.

So in simple Chinese are doing 100 Billions of misadventure by putting their money in the stolen designs.
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,703
Likes
9,070
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Except that Chinese steal those designs to stamp their hegemony in Asia.

China is a regime which has no respect for human rights and is eyeing other nations territories.

The stealing of the tech. proves dangerous for Chinese since US already know the weakness of their designs. Only thing Chinese benefit from stealing the designs and tech is that they can produce the same product and sell it cheap. But since the wages and standard of living has risen in China that advantage is lost.

So in simple Chinese are doing 100 Billions of misadventure by putting their money in the stolen designs.
Nope.
Chinese are smart.
They saved billion of dollars and decades of research.
The flaws: yes there will be flaws but nevertheless fact remains that such espionage activities, if true, only helps China.

As jouni said "all is fair in war."
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Nope.
Chinese are smart.
They saved billion of dollars and decades of research.
The flaws, yes there will be flaws but nevertheless fact remains, that such espionage activities, if true, only helps China.

As jouni said "all is fair in war."
Yes saved Billions to implement the designs of USA in what ever way they want. In war situation this is a more dangerous scenario, assuming USA is their main enemy.
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,703
Likes
9,070
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Yes saved Billions to implement the designs of USA in what ever way they want. In war situation this is a more dangerous scenario.
Wait, are you saying that they'll copy the designs and implement it, as it is, without modification or working on weaknesses.

In any case I think they just saved themselves a lot of time and money, with all that sweet data that the US worked so many decades to create.
 

sorcerer

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2013
Messages
21,130
Likes
67,903
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

They steal and call in indigenous...
This is the only irony in it..

The only indigenous thing comin out of China is Stealing and copying and cheap products
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Wait, are you saying that they'll copy the designs and implement it, as it is, without modification or working on weaknesses.

In any case I think they just saved themselves a lot of time and money, with all that sweet data that the US worked so many decades to create.

Take the example of J31 and F35 both the fighter jets look similar. If Chinese have stolen the secrets of F35 and have a good tech base. They would not have designed the plane in exactly the same shape as F35.
They would have studied the shapes and stealth technology and would have designed the same fighter jet with a new design, like Russia which came up with new design i.e PAK FA.

This example shows that they are in a hurry to copy and come up with a product.

May be they have some weapons which are secretive but based on the reports and the toys they show, the conclusion is that chinese are copying same to same and doing some patch work when they have no idea. In doing so they are putting Billions of dollars in those projects.

They also buy tech. and employ foreign scientists but that is a different story.
 

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,917
Likes
805
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

the post has been deleted by user.
 
Last edited:

Dark Sorrow

Respected Member
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,917
Likes
805
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

So in simple Chinese are doing 100 Billions of misadventure by putting their money in the stolen designs.
Sir in R&D no one steals 100%. What basically happens somewhere while designing they will get stuck up that time they will refer the stolen design or their scientist will first study the design and use the design against their homegrown one as benchmarks.
Idea is generally stolen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Neo

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,763
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

What goes around, comes around. The US stole German scientists after the war to develop their space program etc... Nothing new under the sun. Honestly, if I compare what Chinese are doing to what other developing nations are doing, looks like it is better to stole state of the art solutions, rather that develop something of your own based on 60´s tech.

This is true in military solutions only, in love and war everything is permitted. Copying something on the consumer market must not be tolerated.

Just like Finland and Germany stole the 'Swastika' misused it and made it from a sign denoting "auspiciousness" and make it a reviled word in the western world, right?

Further, the US and USSr did not 'steal' German scientists. They went along to save their bacon and be free from the Nuremberg Trials.

Lots of difference.

Get your facts right and quit your disinformation and propaganda.

Russian B-29 Clone � The TU-4 Story, by Wayland Mayo, Page 10

This is one of my favorite Russian tricks ever, they reverse engineered captured B-29´s. Way to go! Americans first saw them on a parade at red square and their jaws understandably dropped.

Russia did not 'steal' in the generic term of the word.

The aircraft crashed in USSR and they merely 'interned' it and copied.

Lots of difference in 'stealing' and 'copying' when anything is laid on one's lap.





Sir in R&D no one steals 100%. What basically happens somewhere while designing they will get stuck up that time they will refer the stolen design or their scientist will first study the design and use the design against their homegrown one as benchmarks.
Idea is generally stolen.
I presume when one is in a hurry to take over the world, 100% stealing of a proved product is worth a million, than trying to invent the wheel having stolen the hub.
 
Last edited:

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Sir in R&D no one steals 100%. What basically happens somewhere while designing they will get stuck up that time they will refer the stolen design or their scientist will first study the design and use the design against their homegrown one as benchmarks.
Idea is generally stolen.
Chinese call it as their own work !
 

dastan

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
506
Likes
194
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Does India even have any secrets lol? I mean if Chinese can steal f 35 details from unarguably highly secure servers abroad such as those mentioned in the article then it'll be a walk in the park for em to stalk into whatever we've been trying to hide.

Ps - Kudos to China as such cyber espionage needs tantamount skills and dedication, as Lord krishna says in geeta - 'it is not the path you undertake that matters but the final goal that you are to achieve' :)
 

Razor

STABLE GENIUS
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Messages
7,703
Likes
9,070
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Take the example of J31 and F35 both the fighter jets look similar. If Chinese have stolen the secrets of F35 and have a good tech base. They would not have designed the plane in exactly the same shape as F35.
They would have studied the shapes and stealth technology and would have designed the same fighter jet with a new design, like Russia which came up with new design i.e PAK FA.

This example shows that they are in a hurry to copy and come up with a product.

May be they have some weapons which are secretive but based on the reports and the toys they show, the conclusion is that chinese are copying same to same and doing some patch work when they have no idea. In doing so they are putting Billions of dollars in those projects.

They also buy tech. and employ foreign scientists but that is a different story.
I highly doubt they are doing "some patch work".
They are trying to reverse engineer, identify faults in american systems etc and in the process save time, money etc.

In any case we are not in some stage, trying to win some "most pious saint" contest.
Buy, beg, borrow, steal, do whatever you can to win.
 
Last edited:

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

I highly doubt they are doing "some patch work".
They are trying to reverse engineer, identify faults in american systems etc and in the process save time, money etc.

In any case we are not in some stage, trying to win some "most pious saint" contest.
Buy, beg, borrow, steal, do whatever you can to win.
India have no problems like China regarding tech access, so India can openly buy and integrate what ever tech is available out there.

Only question that remains is how well India absorbs the tech. and build its base for further R&D.
 

Ray

The Chairman
Professional
Joined
Apr 17, 2009
Messages
43,133
Likes
23,763
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

I highly doubt they are doing "some patch work".
They are trying to reverse engineer, identify faults in american systems etc and in the process save time, money etc.

In any case we are not in some stage, trying to win some "most pious saint" contest.
Buy, beg, borrow, steal, do whatever you can to win.
Ps - Kudos to China as such cyber espionage needs tantamount skills and dedication, as Lord krishna says in geeta - 'it is not the path you undertake that matters but the final goal that you are to achieve' :)
You have to read the context in which it was said.

In scriptures, it is not always the literal meaning, but the symbolism that has to be understood.
 

Srinivas_K

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2009
Messages
6,054
Likes
7,282
Country flag
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

Ps - Kudos to China as such cyber espionage needs tantamount skills and dedication, as Lord krishna says in geeta - 'it is not the path you undertake that matters but the final goal that you are to achieve' :)
As if Chinese CCP is doing it for "Manav Kalyan" :troll:
 

Redhawk

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2014
Messages
578
Likes
258
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

What goes around, comes around. The US stole German scientists after the war to develop their space program etc... Nothing new under the sun. Honestly, if I compare what Chinese are doing to what other developing nations are doing, looks like it is better to stole state of the art solutions, rather that develop something of your own based on 60´s tech.

This is true in military solutions only, in love and war everything is permitted. Copying something on the consumer market must not be tolerated.
What a lot of anti-American shit. The U.S did NOT steal anyone. German scientists went to the U.S. as personnel to work on American scientific projects in order to have a better life than to continue living in ruined, bombed-out, Allied-occupied Germany. They were not forced at gunpoint to leave Europe.

And anyway, they were enemy personnel that had surrendered to U.S. forces. The Germans had started the war and using German scientists captured by U.S. forces was one small way the German people could make reparations for their cruel war of conquest across Europe. The Soviet Union also took German scientific personnel to work on their projects, probably at gunpoint, and I don't blame them. The Germans had killed 27 million Soviet citizens so as far as the Soviets were concerned they could do what they liked to the Germans. And I can only agree.

The Communist Chinese are STEALING others' intellectual property through cyber espionage. Your illogical and irrational attempt to equate Communist Chinese theft to rightful reparations made to the U.S. for Germany's war on America is entirely nonsensical.
 
Last edited:

jouni

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Messages
3,900
Likes
1,137
Re: China stole designs for Australia's new F-35 Lightning II fighter

What a lot of anti-American shit. The U.S did NOT steal anyone. German scientists went to the U.S. as personnel to work on American scientific projects in order to have a better life than to continue living in ruined, bombed-out, Allied-occupied Germany. They were not forced at gunpoint to leave Europe.

And anyway, they were enemy personnel that had surrendered to U.S. forces. The Germans had started the war and using German scientists was one small way the German people could make reparations for their cruel war of conquest across Europe. The Soviet Union also took German scientific personnel to work on their projects, probably at gunpoint, and I don't blame them. The Germans had killed 27 million Soviet citizens so as far as the Soviets were concerned they could do what they liked to the Germans.

The Communist Chinese are STEALING others' intellectual property through espionage. Your illogical and irrational attempt to equate Communist Chinese theft to rightful reparations made to the U.S. for Germany's war on America is entirely nonsensical.
US also conveniently "forgot" that most of the scientists worked for SS, had forced labor or were SS and Nazi -party members. Do not get me wrong, I like Germans, without them Finland would not be what it is today. So for me it is OK that US and USSR did what they did. Germans just are masters in R&D there is no two way around it. About Stealing intellectual property, it would be nice to know what NSA is doing that is not yet known.
 

Latest Replies

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top