China second only to US in research

Vladimir79

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Meh, nobody cares about how many papers you write. They care about how many citations of them are used.
 

jakojako777

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The problem is after almost 60 years india-russia cooperation, india still lag behind in most of research fields. I don't how russia will help india leap into advanced country.
You have point there.
But than real cooperation is very recent and India is catching up very fast. Most important is complementarity - Russia with more know how and India with more resources and industrial base that can drive prices down and make the projects VERY competitive...
I'm very confident that every mutual project will be crowned with success like Brahmos was.
Pak FGFA is also looking very promising cause developing very fast...
But working together - experience is still small and it will take little bit more of time to work out perfectly on pleasure of both sides!

Only thing to regret is that China is not in much better relationship with India
Cause with 3 strong countries together nothing would be impossible even missions on Mars in near future and similar.:sporty55:

All this luck of understanding is GREAT opportunity for USA to execute their interests by manipulating each country separately in the light of their own interests.:twizt:
 

Daredevil

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The problem is after almost 60 years india-russia cooperation, india still lag behind in most of research fields. I don't how russia will help india leap into advanced country.
India-Russia relationship was mostly in military field and for the rest of research India depends on international research practices and often collaborates with western countries.

As far as China being considered second only to US in research is bogus. China may be publishing hundred of thousands of articles in journals but does that research work gets cited by other international peers and does it get translated into patents, products etc is the question. AFAIK, China scores very low on this scale.
 

qilaotou

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I don't want to impose or sound hostile, but Indo-Russian cooperation can make
squeeze in Russia and India in that restricted club of "most of", "best of" nations.
With joined forces they would easily match China and even start to catch up on USA.:viannen_10:

Well. Russia has been ahead of China in many tech areas. She does not need to collaborate with India to match China or to catch up US, does she? The Russia-India relation is somewhat similar to that of China-Pak. Your mutual trade is less than 10b a year, approximately the same as that between China-Pak. Maybe it's going up, maybe not. The relationship is important only in politics.

China's investment in R&D is at its initial phase. One would expect to see the results in 10 or 20 years.


Apology to jakojako777:
Sorry that I mistook your post as is from an Indian poster.
 

jakojako777

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India-Russia relationship was mostly in military field and for the rest of research India depends on international research practices and often collaborates with western countries.

Thank you for making that precision, which is basically true apart from cooperation in atomic energy sector and now in civil plane industry (Sukhoi's Superjet 100) there is not much else (perhaps India's involvement in Russian oil& gas exploatation)
I wish only that India and Russia do projects like laser technology or nanotechnology development - the way Russia is doing it already with Germany....
Of course military cooperation is much, much bigger in comparison.
But than this thread talks about military defense technology so I wasn't mistaken much be cause I was on the subject of the thread.:viannen_10:
 

jakojako777

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Well. Russia has been ahead of China in many tech areas. She does not need to collaborate with India to match China or to catch up US, does she? The Russia-India relation is somewhat similar to that of China-Pak. Your mutual trade is less than 10b a year, approximately the same as that between China-Pak. Maybe it's going up, maybe not. The relationship is important only in politics.

China's investment in R&D is at its initial phase. One would expect to see the results in 10 or 20 years.
"Russia has been ahead of China"-With all the respect Russia is not dead so there is no need to talk in past tense be cause things can change quickly again...
Russia was in huge decline but things are changing again and soon it will not be
so easy to leave Russia behind.
I'm fully confident in potential of Russia, the game is not over yet..
In my modest opinion Russia can and will catch up on in some thing at least.
And Russia will preserve edge in some sectors like missiles, submarines and planes.

"She does not need to collaborate with India to match China"
This is not against China or anybody else.This is more about recovering lost prestige. And if in that process of cooperation with India can serve as catalizator to speed up the process than why not?

"The relationship is important only in politics."
Well that depends on quality of relationship.
But I agree with you... And nobody pretends or tries to make Indo-Russian relation look perfect cause it is not.
It is just that 2 nations have woken up suddenly to new reality... to witness their interests in developing mutual projects and deepening cooperation almost spontaneously thanks to the long years of good relations.
Nothing more and nothing less.
Call it marriage of circumstance if that will make you happy...Time will tell...
 

qilaotou

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"Russia has been ahead of China"-With all the respect Russia is not dead so there is no need to talk in past tense be cause things can change quickly again...
Russia was in huge decline but things are changing again and soon it will not be
so easy to leave Russia behind.
I'm fully confident in potential of Russia, the game is not over yet..
In my modest opinion Russia can and will catch up on in some thing at least.
And Russia will preserve edge in some sectors like missiles, submarines and planes.

"She does not need to collaborate with India to match China"
This is not against China or anybody else.This is more about recovering lost prestige. And if in that process of cooperation with India can serve as catalizator to speed up the process than why not?
You are right if talking about more beyond the tech areas. Russia is genuine in seeking opportunities because India's potential, while Indians are thinking more about their own future power.


"The relationship is important only in politics."
Well that depends on quality of relationship.
But I agree with you... And nobody pretends or tries to make Indo-Russian relation look perfect cause it is not.
It is just that 2 nations have woken up suddenly to new reality... to witness their interests in developing mutual projects and deepening cooperation almost spontaneously thanks to the long years of good relations.
Nothing more and nothing less.
Call it marriage of circumstance if that will make you happy...Time will tell...
Whatever you say.
 
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rockdog

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I noticed that, in the trade between India and China, India is still just selling natural resource, raw material, and low end product to China.

Source: 2007-2008 Sino-India trade data
2007-08 Sino-India trade data

English translation:
According to the latest statistics of Commerce and Industry of India ,2007-08 fiscal year (April 2007 -2,008 3 months) India and China trade volume reached 37.861 billion U.S. dollars, up 47%, of which India's exports 10.781 billion U.S. dollars to China increased by 30.1% , accounting for 6.78% of total exports of India, China, India's third-largest exporter. India imported 27.08 billion U.S. dollars from China increased 55.21 percent, accounting for 11.3% of India's total imports, China is India's largest importer. India's trade deficit of 16.3 billion.

India's exports to China of five major commodities: iron ore (5.336 billion U.S. dollars), cotton (10.03 billion U.S. dollars), other mineral products (9.28 billion U.S. dollars), non-ferrous metals (4.08 billion U.S. dollars), plastic and linoleum products (333 million U.S. dollars ). In which iron ore exports to China accounted for 92.89% of India's total exports of iron ore, accounting for 49.5% of total exports to China.

India's imports from China of five major commodities: electronic products (7.632 billion U.S. dollars), non-electrical machinery (32.4 billion U.S. dollars), iron and steel (1.913 billion U.S. dollars), organic chemicals (1.709 billion U.S. dollars), coal, coke type (12.07 billion U.S. million).

India's top three trading partners and its total trade are as follows: 37.861 billion U.S. dollars in China, the U.S. 33.9 billion U.S. dollars, the United Arab Emirates 28.835 billion U.S. dollars. China this fiscal year for India's largest trading partner, accounting for the same period India's total foreign trade of 9.49%.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One funny thing from data:

India exports: iron ore (5.336 billion U.S. dollars) to China
India imports: iron and steel (1.913 billion U.S. dollars) from China

I think China's huge investment in R&D really bringing advantage for competing with other developing nations.
 
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India wants to keep relations with China at the raw material level, India will not give China acess to infrastucture,energy or other sensitive areas, so it may seem like India is just a raw material exporter to China but that is exactly the way Indian govt wants it.
 

redragon

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India wants to keep relations with China at the raw material level, India will not give China acess to infrastucture.
I sincerelly hope this is true, however I read way too many articles about Indian Projects Chinese are doing. I do think it's a very stupid idea to get China involved in Indian infrastructure build up.
Chinese government should ban it
 
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I agree with you red dragon, but there are really no infrastructure projecs that the Chinese are involved in that would make any difference.
 

IBRIS

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Despite everything, the Chinese economy has shown incredible resilience recently. Although its biggest customers -- the United States and Europe -- are struggling (to say the least) and its exports are down more than 20 percent, China is still spitting out economic growth numbers as if there weren't a worry in the world. The most recent estimate put annual growth at nearly 8 percent.

Is the Chinese economy operating in a different economic reality? Will it continue to grow, no matter what the global economy is doing?

The answer to both questions is no. China's fortunes over the past decade are reminiscent of Lucent Technologies in the 1990s. Lucent sold computer equipment to dot-coms. At first, its growth was natural, the result of selling goods to traditional, cash-generating companies. After opportunities with cash-generating customers dried out, it moved to start-ups -- and its growth became slightly artificial. These dot-coms were able to buy Lucent's equipment only by raising money through private equity and equity markets, since their business models didn't factor in the necessity of cash-flow generation.

Funds to buy Lucent's equipment quickly dried up, and its growth should have decelerated or declined. Instead, Lucent offered its own financing to dot-coms by borrowing and lending money on the cheap to finance the purchase of its own equipment. This worked well enough, until it came time to pay back the loans.

The United States, of course, isn't a dot-com. But a great portion of its growth came from borrowing Chinese money to buy Chinese goods, which means that Chinese growth was dependent on that very same borrowing.

Now the United States and the rest of the world is retrenching, corporations are slashing their spending, and consumers are closing their pocket books. This means that the consumption of Chinese goods is on the decline. And this is where the dot-com analogy breaks down. Unlike Lucent, China has nuclear weapons. It can print money at will and can simply order its banks to lend. It is a communist command economy, after all. Lucent is now a $2 stock. China won't go down that easily.

The Chinese central bank has a significant advantage over the U.S. Federal Reserve. Chairman Ben Bernanke and his cohort may print a lot of money (and they did), but there's almost nothing they can do to speed the velocity of money. They simply cannot force banks to lend without nationalizing them (and only the government-sponsored enterprises have been nationalized). They also cannot force corporations and consumers to spend. Since China isn't a democracy, it doesn't suffer these problems.

China's communist government owns a large part of the money-creation and money-spending apparatus. Money supply therefore shot up 28.5 percent in June. Since it controls the banks, it can force them to lend, which it has also done.

Finally, China can force government-owned corporate entities to borrow and spend, and spend quickly itself. This isn't some slow-moving, touchy-feely democracy. If the Chinese government decides to build a highway, it simply draws a straight line on the map. Any obstacle -- like a hospital, a school, or a Politburo member's house -- can become a casualty of the greater good. (Okay -- maybe not the Politburo member's house).

Although China can't control consumer spending, the consumer is a comparatively small part of its economy. Plus, currency control diminishes the consumer's buying power. All of this makes the United States' TARP plans look like child's play. If China wants to stimulate the economy, it does so -- and fast. That's why the country is producing such robust economic numbers.

Why is China doing this? It doesn't have the kind of social safety net one sees in the developed world, so it needs to keep its economy going at any cost. Millions of people have migrated to its cities, and now they're hungry and unemployed. People without food or work tend to riot. To keep that from happening, the government is more than willing to artificially stimulate the economy, in the hopes of buying time until the global system stabilizes. It's literally forcing banks to lend -- which will create a huge pile of horrible loans on top of the ones they've originated over the last decade.

But don't confuse fast growth with sustainable growth. Much of China's growth over the past decade has come from lending to the United States. The country suffers from real overcapacity. And now growth comes from borrowing -- and hundreds of billion-dollar decisions made on the fly don't inspire a lot of confidence. For example, a nearly completed, 13-story building in Shanghai collapsed in June due to the poor quality of its construction.

This growth will result in a huge pile of bad debt -- as forced lending is bad lending. The list of negative consequences is very long, but the bottom line is simple: There is no miracle in the Chinese miracle growth, and China will pay a price. The only question is when and how much.

Another casualty of what's taking place in China is the U.S. interest rate. China sold goods to the United States and received dollars in exchange. If China were to follow the natural order of things, it would have converted those dollars to renminbi (that is, sell dollars and buy renminbi). The dollar would have declined and renminbi would have risen. But this would have made Chinese goods more expensive in dollars -- making Chinese products less price-competitive. China would have exported less, and its economy would have grown at a much slower rate.

But China chose a different route. Instead of exchanging dollars back into renminbi and thus driving the dollar down and the renminbi up -- the natural order of things -- China parked its money in the dollar by buying Treasurys. It artificially propped up the dollar. And now, China is sitting on 2.2 trillion of them.

Now, China needs to stimulate its economy. It's facing a very delicate situation indeed: It needs the money internally to finance its continued growth. However, if it were to sell dollar-denominated treasuries, several bad things would happen. Its currency would skyrocket -- meaning the loss of its competitive low-cost-producer edge. Or, U.S. interest rates would go up dramatically -- not good for its biggest customer, and therefore not good for China.

This is why China is desperately trying to figure out how to withdraw its funds from the dollar without driving it down -- not an easy feat.

And the U.S. government isn't helping: It's printing money and issuing Treasurys at a fast clip, and needs somebody to keep buying them. If China reduces or halts its buying, the United States may be looking at high interest rates, with or without inflation. (The latter scenario is most worrying.)

All in all, this spells trouble -- a big, big Chinese bubble. Identifying such bubbles is a lot easier than timing their collapse. But as we've recently learned, you can defy the laws of financial gravity for only so long. Put simply, mean reversion is a *****. And the longer excesses persist, the harder the financial gravity will bring China's economy back to Earth.
 
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Exports are down 20% and Chinese economy grows at 8% ;Chinese are faking the numbers and probably have been for years.
 

amitkriit

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I sincerelly hope this is true, however I read way too many articles about Indian Projects Chinese are doing. I do think it's a very stupid idea to get China involved in Indian infrastructure build up.
Chinese government should ban it
That went like music to my ears. Just for your info Chinese companies which are making money, India is paying them for these projects, they are doing no charity. Why should Indian taxpayers money be spent to make China rich by billions? If they decide to leave, Indian-companies will get a chance to take over. Only thing that is holding back Indian companies from winning these projects is price competitiveness of Chinese and nothing else. As far as exports are concerned, there is nothing in secondary and tertiary sector that India can offer to China, as Indian produces are usually costlier compared to Chinese ones.

As far as Research papers are concerned, India research seems to be on more solid ground, as research papers publish by our scientists have been used for further advance research in Europe and other countries, where they can efford to spend larger sum on creating infrastructure for "Pure Scientific Research". It will take India several decades to provide her scientists best state-of-art facilities to carry out their studies, our research scholars are doing just fine in current circumstances.
 

IBRIS

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Exports are down 20% and Chinese economy grows at 8% ;Chinese are faking the numbers and probably have been for years.
China's exports plunged 22.6 percent last month, Seems good ole China aint doing so good. The world market stumbling china will suffer the most in the end. You see when the rich suffer the Poor Suffer. I think the collective oligarthy (Communist party) that rules China will collapse under its own corruption and exploitation.

China has lots of problems bigger than this economic slump.
 
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I think US institutions better realize that like most things from China the Chinese numbers are fake copies of real economic numbers they wished they had, before going off topic anymore how does exports which equal 45% of the economy being down 23% equal 8% growth?
 

jakojako777

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You are right if talking about more beyond the tech areas. Russia is genuine in seeking opportunities because India's potential, while Indians are thinking more about their own future power.


Thank you for not attaching any low intentions in Russian development. But than...
China doesn't see Russia as future competition in any way.So why should you interpret things otherwise....
But when it comes to India that is another song....It doesn't take genius to see that future position of Super Power belongs to China and perhaps just after that might move to India. Unless of course some catastrophe, war or maybe creation of EU confederation prevents that....




Whatever you say.


How nice of you, thank you.People listen what they want to hear...
 

redragon

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Very sad that even World Bank became part of faking:

New World Bank China GDP Growth Forecast: 8.4%
New World Bank China GDP Growth Forecast: 8.4% - BusinessWeek

:thumbs_thmbdn:
Indian friends will never believe that the net contribution of international trade to GDP increase in China is only between 5-8%, which means the increase rate will be down from 9% to 8% if the international trade is not going well.
Plus they will never believe Chinese consumption can fill the short fall of export. Even though you can get data everywhere from internet these days showing Chinese are the biggest consumers of a lot end products
 
R

rockdog

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Indian friends will never believe that the net contribution of international trade to GDP increase in China is only between 5-8%, which means the increase rate will be down from 9% to 8% if the international trade is not going well.
Plus they will never believe Chinese consumption can fill the short fall of export. Even though you can get data everywhere from internet these days showing Chinese are the biggest consumers of a lot end products
It's well known that the current Chinese economy has three posts: investment, domestic consumption, export. And it's also the study from lots of western economist.

But some of them never believe, never believe, never believe....:icon_salut:

And when USA launch some stimulate package, they aknowledged it; when China did the same thing ($ 800billion), they ignored, ignored, ignored, ignored...
 

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