China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thread

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

Yep. They're great for I need a shitton of ammo at my disposal immediately, but that's about it. Helical magazines take up a ton of mag pouch space, and compared to how many magazines traditional you could fit in the same amount of magazine pouches or whatever, you'd probably end up with less ammunition going with helical magazines only. They take up a lot of space. You could double-stack two 30-round magazines on your chest taking up the same length/height as a 60-round helical, but since they'd probably be narrower, you'd likely be able to fit the double-30 pouches closer together opposed to the wider helical magazines. True, the Helical magazines do provide a significantly larger ammunition capacity, but the magazine design is more complicated, and can be more prone to jamming when compared to s regular stick mag, and that's assuming both are the same quality.

any way nice pictures
Calico serial is the originator of this Helical magazines design which brought us the large capacity MAG concept in 1990...


yes, yes... this magazine has some disadvantage

1.complex design and manufacture with high price
2.bigger volume and heavier
3.more chance for jamming of cartridge ...
4.harder for loading-up

but the large capacity is the key advantage and there is the reason why the R&D team tried this design...this SMG project was originaly one of the contenders for PLA Nex-Gen Silenced weapon system(pistol and SMG) for ths Scouting Force and Special Force...Normally the ONLY Silenced weapon would be arranged to the pathfinder of the PLA SF team in a searching formation as demonstrated in the following images(the first member was using the Type85 Silenced SMG which was due to be replaced by the winner of the tender)



the pathfinder has more chance to encounter the enemy than other team members. he would have two options:
1.kill them with the Silenced weapon
2. if the team is out numbered(which is quite normal situation), he would have to pour the bullets to offer a shocking fire superiority for the retreat of the whole team...in this case .the "large capacity MAG" became the key...so in the tender ,the army requested a "50 Rounds MAG"

the orignal design was even more complex ! the very first prototype used to have a 'Dual way ammunition feed' design . there was a 15 rounds straight magazine(also the QSZ92 9mm Pistol's MAG ) in the grip and helical magazine (also as a buttstock).



one of the Stage II prototype: 1.Dual way ammunition feed design was kept 2.folding butt 3. the helical magazine positon was moved to the top.



the another prototype : retractable buttstock



the final prototype:'Dual way ammunition feed' is cancelled.. the font grip was changed...the Transparent MAG material was replaced coz it failed the low Temperature test.



but unfortunately, this design lost to another project . then the R&D team made some modification for the international market and domestic police use . the shortcomings mentioned above might be some of the reasons why the project lost in the bid...the winner became the QCW05 5.8mm SMG which was mentioned in Post #10.

the below are winner of New-Gen Silenced weapon system tender(QSW06 Silenced pistol and QCW05 Silenced SMG) and their predecessors(Type67 pistol and Type85 SMG)



BTW .the QCW05 fullfiled the 50 rds MAG request with a " 4 rows and 2 ways feeding " magazine design.



(most info was from the gunworld website and BBS)
 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

there is another 9mm Police SMG displayed on the Expo...this project came from a Privatized firm. this ex-state-owned enterprise was a small one manufacturing Pistols and after the Privatization the firm is concentrated on the Air Rifles...but this time ,it bring a SMG prototype here aiming at the Police market..but no much info released

PS. the firm was so confident with its air rifle products that they mark "BAM" on the grip(the 2nd image)as the logo which stands for " Best Air rifle Maker"....LOL...but quite some owners disagree with it a lot...



----------------------------

some details of CS/LR-19 7.62mm Semi-Auto Sniper Rifile of Post #16 added

details of the flame hinder with the screw thread for the silencer, new handguard with the rails, grip, buttstock and sights...etc...

 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

CS/LR-4 7.62mm High Precision Sniper System



-------------------------------------------------------
PLA is operating two generations of Sniper Rifles --Type79/85 7.62mm×54(Russian) and QBU-88 5.8mm×42. as the second Gen Sniper Rifle, the QBU-88 has some advantages over the Type79/85 including the weight , length , portability, ergonomic...but it didn't have impressive improvement on accuracy dut to the smaller caliber(5.8mm vs 7.62mm) especially at the long distance...

after years use and test ,we found 5.56/5.8mm was too small caliber for a standard sniper rifle ,which was weak in Range and Killing ability, even the precision at a long distance would be a problem as well...so we don't think this is a standard sniper rifle but more close to a SharpShooter Rifile of American concept(heavy barrel and heavy bullet) .
a PLA infantry company owns 9 such sniper rifles ,both rifles are suitable and qualified weapon for these Regular infantry units. but both are Inadequate for SF combat standard..many lessons were learnt when the PLA team were competing others' High Precision Sniper System(eg. Remington ,HK, SSG...) with Tyep85 or QBU-88. so in the following years, the SF competing team began to use the imported Sniper Rifles...

in late 1990s, QBU-88 in Estonia Assault---no big prize



in late 2000s, some team with 2 Remington and 4 SSG in Hungary...this time .the team won 3 Gold ,2 Silver, 3 Bronze...you see, the tools in hand are so important...



at the same time. the ARMY request the Weapon Industury to design a true "High Precision Sniper System"ï¼ˆwith high cost as well)...after years development and bidding...a home-made Sniper system surfaced...but it seems that PLA didn't give a standard codename but a Export project code---CS/LR-4 7.62mm..the reason is comprehensible too---1.it won't replace the QBU88 in Regular infantry units. QBU88 is already a qualified weapon with an affordable cost for large quantity. 2. the Elite units with extra fund could buy it independently..3. Police would be the important market instead of military purpose...4. this rifle use the NATO 7.62×51R which is not the standard PLA ammunition.

during the recent years, we saw this model has replaced the imported Rifles and appeared in every international Special Force competitions which PLA had team attended.

, Golden Eagle ,Kazakhstan



,Austrilian



PLA SF units yearly competition



the female sniper from Shanghai Police

 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

CS/LR-4 7.62mm High Precision Sniper System---a set of graphs about the details,but they were taken on Police Expo 2011









 

Broccoli

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

@<a href="http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/member.php?u=1929" target="_blank">shiphone</a> excellent post,few questions for you:

1 What is this obsession with copying weapons?Only a few days back i had seen a Chinese rifle resembling ak 12 in looks.

Type-81 looks like AK but is not internally AK.
Type 81 assault rifle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

CS/LR-4 7.62mm High Precision Sniper System

Length: 1100 mm
Barrel length: 610 mm
Weight: 6.5 kg
MAG: 5 rounds
Muzzle velocity: 800 m/s
Range: 600 m



with the experience and lesson learnt in the past, when the R&D team were developing this new project , they were no longer thinking about designing a Rifle only. but other high-level sub systems , including:

1. High precision optical sight with an attachable low-light level night vision device
2. Laser rangefinder and ballistic computer
3. High precision Cartridge(match class)


high level design and high standard manufacture also lead to high price, there is a unofficial 'codename' for this Sniper Rifle--Type 26,which actually came from its released price: 260,000 RMB (around 42,000 USD) for the whole system...LOL

when PLA Special Force team bring this Rifle to "Golden Eagle " SF Contest,Kazakhstan, the sponsor offered some expensive Match Class 7.62mm NATO cartridge(made in Finland). it works well with this sniper rifle...and some China's firm is also manufacturing the simliar rounds of the same class...



the adjustable parts and the trigger pull( 8-15 N ) and travel can be adjusted too...



the package



-----------------------------------

CS/LR-4 7.62mm has s sister varient as well---CS/LR3 5.8mm--also a exportation project, but we thought 5.8mm is too small for such a sniper rifle. so we don't see much future for this project



both rifles on the same stand



5.8mm (left) and 7.62mm (right)
 
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s002wjh

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

I'm curious about the quality of scope. For sniper system scope is often more important than the weapon
 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

details about the MAG release button and trigger pull force and travel adjustment screws.
BTW, the early test batch had a problem: the MAG could be inserted in wrong direction without mistake proof design. it was reported to the designer and it was said some improvement on the Mass Production batch.



on this Expo ...we found two kinds of scope sights... CS/OS15 and CS/OS17 on two CS/LR-4 rifles of different stands



some introduction about the day scope sight published on the <Small Arm > Magazine...this model(export code: CS/OS15 mentioned above) came with the rifle first in 2011. and we also could ID some new models and some imported scopes(Eg. Swarovski) fitted on the different unit's rifles in the following years

weight: 1.05KG
length: 350mm
Zoom: 8-32×
Objective lens: 54mm

it works with extra Night vision for night combat

 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

the other two sub-system of CS/LR-4 7.62mm High Precision Sniper Rifle


1. CS/DFL3 7.62mm High precision Cartridge---PLA kept using the heavy cartridge for GP Machine Gun for their sniper rifles(both 7.62mm and 5.8mm)...obviously such Mass Production cartridges won't be ideal ammunition for 'true' sniper combat....so a specialy designed and made cartridge was introduced to improve the precision...some China's factories are also manufacturing the NATO 7.62mm for export purpose, in their catalog ,some 'Match Class' cartridge could also be fired...and on the international market, such specially made NATO 7.62mm is rare either...the SF team would use such cartridge provided by the competion organizer and the results seemed quite ideal...

Muzzle velocity : 800 m/s
Accuracy (R) : 2.9cm @100m.... [email protected] ....17.4cm @600m
Erosion: 2mm #50 steel plates plut 25mm deal board @600m



----------------------------------------------

2. CS/OB1 Laser rangefinder and ballistic computer...



Components: one observation eyepiece, one LCD display. one Laser rangefinder , one computer, some input button on the pannel and a battary
Zoom in: 6×
Field-of-View: 6°
Range: 10-500m



the left eye is for the eyepiece..the right eye is for a sceen with the results display of rangefinder and ballistic computer including: 1.wind speed, 2 temp 3.distance 4. air pressure, 5. Wind direction, 6.type of the ammuniton 7. the final results: ballistic correction

QBU-88 5.8mm Sniper rifle also could work with a ballistic computer.


 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

Before the appearance of CS/LR-4 7.62mm,on the past Expo the same firm (JianShe Group.)used to display a 7.62mm sniper rifle project developed by their own...we used to call it JS-7.62 rifle...

the early model with muzzle break( in year 2003)



the late model



displayed on MILIPOL2005, Paris



but when the JS group began to co-operate with the China's main Small Arm developer on the CS/LR-4 7.62mm project. this project disappeared for years...so the detailed introduction is left out here althouth it WAS a well-reported product..

-----------------------------
another China's Small Arm Manufacture Giant --雄鹰集团 HAWK Group.aslo brought a XY 7.62mm Sniper Rifle to this Expo. but the staff seemed no much enthusiasm to the general public. so little info was collected by our arm fans...





 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

another product from the Hawk Group-- PY131A and PY132A Laser Dazzler






---------------------------
Hawk Group's Antiriot Revolvers-10mm


 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

the Key products from the 雄鹰集团(Hawk Group.)is the 18.4mm Antiriot Shotgun serial...



---------------------------------
all kinds of shotguns here: 1.slide-action, 2.bolt-action, 3.Semi Auto, 4. Tubular magazine, 5. Box magazine...whatever,I won't go into much detail on these...

Type 97 serial slide-action shotguns


Improve Type 97 serial shotguns : Type97-2, Type97-2A, PD12-SG


YJ12 serial and JS12 Resure Gun



the Highlight product of Hawk Group. on this Expo is a Semi-Auto/Bolt-Action dual purpose shotgun 18.4mm
Semi-Auto mode for stardard killing rounds
Bolt-Action mode for Low pressure JNLWM like (tear rounds, paintball , and Bean bag bullet .etc.. )



the family


introduction and some details.
 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

another a group of images of Hawk group's 18.4mm Antiriot Shotgun serial showing some details. Muzzle brake design on some shotguns could function as a Glass Breaker ...



and images of the details of XY 7.62mm Sniper Rifle introduced in post #30

 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

18.4mm Antiriot Shotguns from another two firms:

1. the HuNan GreatWall industry's Semi-Auto Mag feeding shotgun...the temp codename: type 2010




2. the JianShe Industry's EM12-1 and EM12-2 12# shotguns...a 18.4mm of semi-Auto AK47...LOL





3. another 18.4mm of semi-Auto AK47---Q1801 serial , GreatWall industry



4. and now the 18.4mm AR15/M16 Semi-Auto here.. LOL... GreatWall industry's product

 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

���ϱ�����ҵ�����������ι�˾

Hunan Greatall OrdanceIndustry Group co, LTD (which was incorrectly translated as Hunan Hunan Greatwall industry group, sorry about that) is the key Grenade Launcher products porvider...the firm brought quite some projects to the expo.


---------------------
normally we could see three calibers of GL serial:

1.35mm--military serial products(PLA standard)
2.40mm--Export serial (NATO standard)
3.38mm--Antiriot sreial for police-use and export

---------------------------------
LG-4 40mm GL

Length: 730 mm
Weight: 5.85 Kg
Muzzle velocity: 76 m/s
Range: 400 m

more details : Scale Plate and holographic sights...etc..







--------------------------------------
BTW ,the LG export GL serial has some other members:

1. LG-1 35mm Under Barrel GL firing 35×34mm serial Military Rounds and 35×28mm serial Antiriot rounds


2. LG-2 40mm Under Barrel GL firing 40×48mm NATO rounds
 

shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

the another member of LG serial GL is a heavy FULL-Auto model--- LG3 40mm AGL which was also displayed on the Expo...

Dimension: 1030mm X 229 mm X 195 mm
Weight: 39 KG
Ammunition:40x53 mm serial rounds: eg. HEAT round(76mm penetration), HEFA round(killing radius: 6m)
Firing rate: 340-400 Rounds/Minute , Belt-fed with 30 Rounds belt stored in a Box MAG.



vehicle-mounted status



tripod status


HEAT round and HEFA round


----------------------------
 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

LG3 40mm AGL looks like the famous MK19 40mm AGL...but the detail difference is obvious ...China didn't choose to clone this old design for Export when the patent expired but design a similar weapon according to own understanding and knowledge...LG3 is a little lighter weapon ( 39Kg vs Mk19's 42.5-67kg)...and weight is always an important concern for China's Small Arm designers. you would see more examples in the following introductions.

Mk19 mod3


LG3

-----------------------------------

the AGL in PLA army service is something else...the QLZ04 35mm AGL this is a much lighter AGL with a combat weight of 24kg only.




---------------------------------
and in 1980s, PLA seized some AGS17 in battlefield and Design unit managed to Clone the USSR's AGS17 30mm AGL ,then it was sold to Afghanistan in the WAR with the payment by USA.

the following might be the only pic of this CLONE on the internet, and it often appeared on China's Defence Magazines in 1980s...but it disappeared from our view later ,so the production of this clone should be very quite limited.

 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

another GL in PLA Army service is the QLZ-87 35mm GL...it's a also a Full-Auto GL but it was designed as "general purpose" GL similar to GP machine gun concept with two status: Heavy Status for battalion-company level Firepower support(20kg ,Tripod + 15 rounds Drum magazine) for company level and Light Status( 12kg, Bipod + 6 rounds Drum magazine) for Squad-Platoon level assault firepower enhancement...



in the past years , quite a few of this GL were exported to the 3rd world countries and gained quite a good reputation--African Armies normally are lack of artillery, so they found such GL very battlefield valued and call these kinds of weapons as " Infantry Gun in hands"...the light status is the main combat status in these armies...

in South American


Tanzanian Army


Uganda Army


Burundi Army


it has been with us for about 25 years and used to be the only combat-ready GL in the army . nowadays PLA army are introducing the QLZ04 35mm AGL(replaceing the heavy status QLZ87)



and QLB06 35mm Light-Weight AGL(replacing the light status QLZ87)

 
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shiphone

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

although the QLZ87 35mm AGL are phasing out in Army service , its life doesn't seem to end yet ,the GreatWall Group is focusing on the Export and Police use market ...on this Police Expo, two sisters varients appeared and they seems to be based on the QLZ87 design...

1. LG-6 40mm Semi-Auto GL---another member of LG serial GL ,firing the NATO rounds...





2. Type 2010 38mm Anti-riot Auto GL---firing the non-lethal Anitriot rounds.




 
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Glint

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Re: China Police Expo 2014 (20-23 May) & China's Export Small Arms thr

These are actually impressive. GG guys.
 

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