China plans intercontinetal high speed railway to europe

bengalraider

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» China intends to extend its high-speed rail system towards south Asia and Europe with the goal of two-day journey times between London and Beijing.

If China weren’t already halfway through the construction of the world’s largest high-speed rail network, it would be difficult to take this proposal seriously. But the most populated country on earth has shown no deficit of skill recently in undertaking massive public works projects, and its ambitions — and willingness to finance them — show no sign of slowing.

So the news that China is planning a series of transcontinental high-speed rail lines designed to connect London to Beijing in just two days that broke yesterday in the South China Morning Post should be taken at face value. The proposal, which is mapped out above according to preliminary information about proposed alignments, would likely be the largest infrastructure project — ever. Taking the growing Chinese rail network as the starting point, new 200 mph lines would extend south towards Singapore, north and west into Siberia, and west through India, Kazakhstan, and Turkey, with the eventual goal of linking into the growing European fast train system.

Exact routes are not yet determined, but the general goal of the plan is to increase the region’s mobility through fast rail networks and to join together the mostly disconnected Asian and European systems.

Government officials in China plan to use this project to expand the country’s base of natural resources. Negotiations are already underway with 17 countries, premised on the idea that China would spend its own money building the rail links in exchange for resources it currently lacks. According to Wang Mengshu, a consultant working on the project, “We would actually prefer the other countries to pay in natural resources rather than make their own capital investment.”

China has already agreed to finance a rail link into Myanmar in exchange for the rights to that country’s lithium reserves. Russia and China have announced plans to build a new trans-Siberian link. Iran, Pakistan, and India are each negotiating with China to build domestic rail lines that would link into the overall transcontinental system.

It’s a sort of neo-imperialism desired by the countries to be colonized. Will they regret the selling off of their natural resources in exchange for better transportation offerings? Is this reasonable foreign investment on the part of China, or is it an attempt to take control of the economies of poor countries?

The strategy can’t be more clear: China wants to establish itself as the center of Asian trade, the hub of the world’s largest market. By developing the economies of Cental Asian and Eastern European countries that have missed out on the enormous growth currently being experienced by China, the region will experience increasing trade and development, a result that will in turn aid in expanding the Chinese economy. It would allow China to solidify its position as the dominant player in the Asian economy, with the goal of eliminating any hopes of increasing American or European influence there.

Though China’s economy continues to grow at an unbelievable pace, its slow-growth demographics resulting from the one-child policy mean that it must focus its efforts abroad if it wants to continue expansion into the future.

Despite China’s history of following through with its big rail plans, building a 17-country network is quite different than upgrading just its own lines. Some major problems, like track gauge differences and differing visa requirements, stand in the way of ever completing the project. If they get their way, however, Chinese officials want to complete the project in ten years. It’s an outrageous — and exciting — objective.

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/
have to say this , if there is one nation on earth that has pulled impossible dreams out of the hat and implemented them no matter the practicality it is china.
Waiting for the station in delhi so i can go to London for the weekend by train.
 

tarunraju

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They can dream about passing it through India.

When there's an airlines industry that's 66% of completion overdue, and when there's a rising affluent class in India who prefer budget air travel to rail, HS rail is moot. It's going to take another 30 years before air travel saturates making way for HS rail.

Look at US. When connecting its vast expanses can't be fulfilled by rail, and they still use airways, then China (a country with similar expanses) can't dream of having a sustainable HS rail network.

High-speed rail isn't a bad means of transport per-say, but it's better suited for small countries (countries the size of South Korea, Japan, etc.,) where large volumes of people travel 100s of kilometres daily for work. It just isn't practical for bigger countries with airways around, and when fares are on par with air travel.
 
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AkhandBharat

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I doubt China's (or anyone's) intention in building the high speed rail is for ferrying passengers. It would be used mostly for transport of raw materials/finished goods within Eurasia to provide an alternate route for facilitating trade, in case the ship lanes are under blockade.
 
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with Xenophobia increasing in Europe is there any chance of this becoming a reality?? Many countries would have to give the ok to start and maintenance and transit fees,duties, and visas would all be separate issues as well as construction costs, is China going to pay for the whole construction??
 

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This proposal reminds me the very prestigious Berlin-Baghdad rail route constructed by Bismark i.e Germans during 1903 to 1940. It was a classic strategy at that time.

The Germans gained access to and ownership of oil fields in Iraq, and with a line to the port of Basra would have gained better access to the eastern parts of the German colonial empire, bypassing the Suez Canal. They used it to access the African colonies. Substantially used it during wars.
Can't even imagine what dreams PRC is having iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii What they want to do? Acquire russia's energy resources?
PRC politburo should wake up for the realities of 2010........



>>>>>>
 

Armand2REP

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Just looking at the map one can see that half of the railway lines are a non-starter. India will never go for it nor will Vietnam. Even if they did, that would put Chinese supply routes at severe risk in time of tension. The Central line CCP plans through Urumqi isn't going to make any money. Putting a rail line through Eastern Uzbekistan is just about as bad as putting one through Afghanistan. PLA will have to send an army just to protect its Central Asian routes. The only line with any merit is the one running through Russia. You only have to pay one transit fee before you get to Europe plus they have the raw materials to pay for it. The rest is just a pipe dream. No way you want to pay 10 countries transit fees before you hit Western Europe.
 

badguy2000

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Just looking at the map one can see that half of the railway lines are a non-starter. India will never go for it nor will Vietnam. Even if they did, that would put Chinese supply routes at severe risk in time of tension. The Central line CCP plans through Urumqi isn't going to make any money. Putting a rail line through Eastern Uzbekistan is just about as bad as putting one through Afghanistan. PLA will have to send an army just to protect its Central Asian routes. The only line with any merit is the one running through Russia. You only have to pay one transit fee before you get to Europe plus they have the raw materials to pay for it. The rest is just a pipe dream. No way you want to pay 10 countries transit fees before you hit Western Europe.
Lanzhou-Urumqi highspeed railway in fact is already under construction now,when you are bigmouthing how bad it is.

Chinese are always like "doing first" than "bigmouthing first".


Lanxin High-Speed Railway, Lanzhou–Urumqi, 1776 km, longest HSR line under construction


Lanxin High-Speed Railway, also known as Lanxin Railway Second Double-Track (兰新铁路第二双线), is a high-speed railway connecting Lanzhou, Gansu and Urumqi, Xinjiang, in the People's Republic of China.

Construction work began on November 4, 2009. The 1,776-kilometre (1,104 mi) long railway would take 5 years to complete, of which, 795 km (494 mi) is in Gansu, 268 km (167 mi) in Qinghai and 713 km (443 mi) in Xinjiang. 31 stations will be built along the line. The project costs 143.5 billion yuan.[1]

Rail track in the section near Qilianshan Tunnel is 3600 meters above sea level, making the railway is the highest high-speed railway in the world. Train will run at 350 km/h on the line.[2] The railway will go through the famous 100-li wind region, where wind constantly blow in most days of a year. In 2007, strong wind overturns a train and four were killed.[3] A 67-km long wind-prevent channel will be built in this region.
 

badguy2000

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Possible routes on the proposed Beijing - Berlin high speed line.

 

Daredevil

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Seems very unsustainable unless all the countries involved will be onboard and take part in such a project. Even then it seems a long shot. You exactly don't need high speed lines just to ferry some goods.
 

amoy

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Glad that I locate my hometown on the map of rail network. From late April I'll be on that coastal inter-city line which takes 1-1.5hrs (distance 270km) from my home city to where I work.

I'm hardly thrilled by that daydream of intercontinetal high speed railway to Europe since it involves too many countries who have never been in concensus. But I do feel excited about benefits HSR brings about for ordinary people's life.

China - be the change u wish to see in the world!
 

Armand2REP

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Lanzhou-Urumqi highspeed railway in fact is already under construction now,when you are bigmouthing how bad it is.

Chinese are always like "doing first" than "bigmouthing first".


Lanxin High-Speed Railway, Lanzhou–Urumqi, 1776 km, longest HSR line under construction
Pretty stupid decision by CCP. It makes a lovely target for Uighurs and Kirghiz Muslim extremists to attack. The profitability of such a route won't be made in passenger fares as there are too few and poor people to even consider it. Only people traveling that line will be Han businessmen looking for posh accommodations to their resource grabs. Europeans won't want to travel through Central Asia for security concerns.

As I said, only route with viability is that through Russia but CCP starts the worst one first.
 

badguy2000

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Pretty stupid decision by CCP. It makes a lovely target for Uighurs and Kirghiz Muslim extremists to attack. The profitability of such a route won't be made in passenger fares as there are too few and poor people to even consider it. Only people traveling that line will be Han businessmen looking for posh accommodations to their resource grabs. Europeans won't want to travel through Central Asia for security concerns.

As I said, only route with viability is that through Russia but CCP starts the worst one first.

has any your anticatpion of China works yet? none!
 

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Using a high speed rail for every day life wont work as it is expensive just like airliners. But, if the high speed rail is to use as a replacement for Airliners, then I think there will be a huge potential for this project. For example, the huge amount of cargo it can carry across continents and nations and the number of passengers per trip will be many fold larger than that of Aircrafts. However, if the High speed rail is intended for common people, just like we Indians use Indian railway just to get to work, then am afraid, it will be a big failure as the cost of travel wont add up the the daily earning of Chinese. A thorough feasibility study needed to be done for such a mammoth project.
 

gogbot

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They can dream about passing it through India.

When there's an airlines industry that's 66% of completion overdue, and when there's a rising affluent class in India who prefer budget air travel to rail, HS rail is moot. It's going to take another 30 years before air travel saturates making way for HS rail.

Look at US. When connecting its vast expanses can't be fulfilled by rail, and they still use airways, then China (a country with similar expanses) can't dream of having a sustainable HS rail network.

High-speed rail isn't a bad means of transport per-say, but it's better suited for small countries (countries the size of South Korea, Japan, etc.,) where large volumes of people travel 100s of kilometres daily for work. It just isn't practical for bigger countries with airways around, and when fares are on par with air travel.
Just looking at the map one can see that half of the railway lines are a non-starter. India will never go for it nor will Vietnam. Even if they did, that would put Chinese supply routes at severe risk in time of tension. The Central line CCP plans through Urumqi isn't going to make any money. Putting a rail line through Eastern Uzbekistan is just about as bad as putting one through Afghanistan. PLA will have to send an army just to protect its Central Asian routes. The only line with any merit is the one running through Russia. You only have to pay one transit fee before you get to Europe plus they have the raw materials to pay for it. The rest is just a pipe dream. No way you want to pay 10 countries transit fees before you hit Western Europe.
This proposal reminds me the very prestigious Berlin-Baghdad rail route constructed by Bismark i.e Germans during 1903 to 1940. It was a classic strategy at that time.



Can't even imagine what dreams PRC is having iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii What they want to do? Acquire russia's energy resources?
PRC politburo should wake up for the realities of 2010........



>>>>>>
with Xenophobia increasing in Europe is there any chance of this becoming a reality?? Many countries would have to give the ok to start and maintenance and transit fees,duties, and visas would all be separate issues as well as construction costs, is China going to pay for the whole construction??
I doubt China's (or anyone's) intention in building the high speed rail is for ferrying passengers. It would be used mostly for transport of raw materials/finished goods within Eurasia to provide an alternate route for facilitating trade, in case the ship lanes are under blockade.
have to say this , if there is one nation on earth that has pulled impossible dreams out of the hat and implemented them no matter the practicality it is china.
Waiting for the station in delhi so i can go to London for the weekend by train.
You know when i first heard about China wanting a High speed line with India, i was very much agitated about it.
Simply put There is too much mis-trust for some thing like that to happen.

But now i am taking a step back.
and looking at the big picture.

Possible routes on the proposed Beijing - Berlin high speed line.



A Eurasian High speed railway system stretching from the Atlantic to the Pacific.

This project only reminds of the PAN American Highway.
Stretching over two continents and linking well over half the worlds population.


Now lets be honest here, we against this idea, only because it was China who proposed it.

Had it been Russia, India , Germany or France. We would all still see it as a distant dream.
But we wont exactly be against it.

A HSR network of this scale has benefits. Especially with trade.

Goods can be moved across the world largest land-mass much cheaper then before.

I mean, we all talk about the future , but isn't projects like a global HSR exactly.

Imagine being able to travel the length of Europe and Asia, in a train.

For much less money then you would by air.

Using a high speed rail for every day life wont work as it is expensive just like airliners. But, if the high speed rail is to use as a replacement for Airliners, then I think there will be a huge potential for this project. For example, the huge amount of cargo it can carry across continents and nations and the number of passengers per trip will be many fold larger than that of Aircrafts. However, if the High speed rail is intended for common people, just like we Indians use Indian railway just to get to work, then am afraid, it will be a big failure as the cost of travel wont add up the the daily earning of Chinese. A thorough feasibility study needed to be done for such a mammoth project.
I agree with you on the fright part.

But projects like there are future planning.

catering for the middle class rising not only in India and china but all over the developing world.

And of course transport cost will eventually go down.

If this is China's plan to market and make all there 10's of thousands of km of HSR . then their dreaming.

but if this is their way of saying.

Lets build a EurAsian High Speed Rail network. With each nation building its own system to be part of a larger network.
Like the Pan-American Highway of the America's , then i don't see why we have to oppose such a plan.

Lets give the idea some thought.
It may seem un-feasible but so were many large engineering projects like this all through history.
 
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Rage

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Using a high speed rail for every day life wont work as it is expensive just like airliners. But, if the high speed rail is to use as a replacement for Airliners, then I think there will be a huge potential for this project. For example, the huge amount of cargo it can carry across continents and nations and the number of passengers per trip will be many fold larger than that of Aircrafts. However, if the High speed rail is intended for common people, just like we Indians use Indian railway just to get to work, then am afraid, it will be a big failure as the cost of travel wont add up the the daily earning of Chinese. A thorough feasibility study needed to be done for such a mammoth project.
I think that's a fair assessment.

What is the timeline on this proposed project? And how many corridoors extant?
 

Minghegy

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China Invites Bulgaria to Join High-Speed Asia-Europe Rail with Turkey
Business | October 28, 2010, Thursday


A map of the northern China to Europe rail routes via Kazakhstan and Russia. China appears interested in developing a southern route as well, inviting Turkey and Bulgaria to join in it. Map by nigelnixon.com
China has formally invited Bulgaria to join together with Turkey a project for a high-speed railway connection from the Far East to Europe.

The invitation resulted from talks in Beijing between Bulgarian Transport Minister Alexander Tsvetkov and China's Minister of Transport Li Shenglin, Minister of Railways Liu Zhijun, and leading Chinese railway companies, the press service of the Bulgarian Transport Ministry announced.

The Ministry said the Bulgarian government is going to take part in trilateral talks with China and Turkey on the high-speed China-Europe rail. After that, in December 2010, the three countries are expected to sign a trilateral cooperation agreement on freight rail services.

The transport authorities of Bulgaria and China have also decided to set up a bilateral contact group "because there is a strong interest on part of China," the Transport Ministry announced.

Tsvetkov also presented Bulgaria as a destination for investments in transport infrastructure to journalists from Radio China, Radio Beijing, and the English-language paper Economy Daily News.

The news about China's luring Bulgaria into the high-speed Asia-Europe rail project comes after on Wednesday Tsvetkov invited his counterpart Li Shenglin on part of the People's Republic of China to consider investment opportunities in the field of transport and infrastructure.

Bulgaria and China are considering setting up a joint venture for sea port infrastructure as well as offering concessions of Bulgarian sea and river ports to Chinese companies.

"China is a first-rate partner of Bulgaria. Bulgaria is in the position to offer maximum good conditions to port operators. We believe that the Bulgarian ports can be attractive enough to compete with the routes of Central and Eastern Asia," Tsvetkov told Li Shenglin, as cited by the press service of the Transport Ministry.

The visit of the Bulgarian government delegation in China comes in the wake of several months of intensive contacts between the Bulgarian government and Chinese central and provincial authorities as well as companies on various potential joint projects such as the Bozhurishte Industrial Zone near Sofia.

Bulgaria's Economy Minister Traicho Traikov has stated several times that China was interest in receiving concessions over Bulgarian airport and ports in order to use them as a base for its exports to the EU and wider Europe.

As soon as Transport Minister Tsvetkov's visit to China was first announced, the Bulgarian government made it clear it would focus on considering options for long-term cooperation between the Freight Directorate of the Bulgarian state railway company BDZ and Chinese railway operators in the context of China's project to launch a railway connection to Central and Western Europe through Central Asia, Turkey, and Bulgaria, the so called China-Europe high-speed rail link.


Tags: railways, freight, concessions, port concession, airports, ports, BDZ, Alexander Tsvetkov, China, PRC, China-Europe rail link, turkey, Li Shenglin, Transport Minister, Transport Ministry

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=121602
 

badguy2000

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Lenin once said:
" the imperial influence sphere extends wherever its railway-net extends!"
 
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SHASH2K2

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PARIS — When Prime Minister Wen Jiabao of China visited Athens last month, he came bearing gifts: billions of dollars worth of business deals and a wave of favorable attention from a crucial foreign investor.
"The support of our Chinese friends is fortunate for us," Greece's minister of state, Haris Pamboukis, said by telephone.

But China had much greater ambitions. Greece is one foothold for China's broad, strategic push into Europe. It is snapping up assets depressed by the global financial crisis and becoming a significant partner of other hard-hit European nations.

Ultimately, analysts say, Beijing hopes to achieve not just more business for its own companies, but also greater influence over the economic policies set in the power corridors of Brussels and Germany.

"They are indicating a willingness to stick their nose into Europe's business," said Carl B. Weinberg, chief United States economist of High Frequency Economics.

"It's very clever and sends a clear message," he added, "that China is a force to be contended with."

That message will be reinforced by a visit this week by China's president, Hu Jintao, who is scheduled to meet with top officials and business executives of Portugal and France.

Europe's financial crisis this year has created buying opportunities for cash-rich investors, including secretive hedge funds and Qatar, the natural gas giant of the Persian Gulf that recently agreed to invest $5 billion in Greece. But China is leading the charge. It is singling out Greek, Spanish and other downgraded government debt, as well as ports, highways and industries in troubled countries on Europe's eastern and southern edges.

Ireland and Hungary, among others, are also competing to lure Chinese investments, in the hopes that they will create thousands of new jobs.

"What is happening is that the Chinese are expanding in Europe as they did in Africa," said François Godement, a senior policy fellow of the European Council on Foreign Relations. "But in Europe, they're coming in through countries on the periphery, which is extraordinary."

China is concentrating its efforts on ports in Greece and Italy and highways that link Eastern Europe to Germany and Turkey, and aims to secure larger infrastructure investments over time. It has provided billions of dollars in state financing for key public works projects that support Chinese state-owned companies and Chinese workers.

Such moves could give China a bigger presence in the European chain of distribution and production, while allowing it to build a track record of investments that it hopes will also encourage Europe to support its position on divisive currency issues and in trade disputes at the World Trade Organization.

During his recent European tour, Mr. Wen reminded politicians in Brussels that China had acted as "a friend" to Greece, Spain, Italy and other troubled European countries in their darkest hour by buying bonds as other investors fled. In return, he admonished regional leaders not to "pressure China on the yuan's appreciation," referring to the Chinese currency, formally called the renminbi.

In the past several months, China has pledged to buy Greek bonds when the government starts selling again, and purchased $625 billion in Spanish debt. On his visit, Mr. Wen hailed scores of business deals in Italy and Greece, including one that allows a Chinese state firm to run Greece's top shipping port — one of the largest European gateways for Chinese goods.

For China, plowing a small but growing share of its more than $2.3 trillion in foreign currency reserves into European investments instead of low-yielding United States Treasury bills helps diversify its portfolio. Beijing also hopes that this kind of push helps reduce the international political pressure to raise the value of its currency.

"It's not a coincidence that China is doing this," said Jens Bastian, an economist at the Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy. "They have huge currency reserves, and these countries where they are going right now have a dying need for foreign investment."

While Chinese foreign direct investment in Europe is still small compared with its investments in other regions, it has grown quickly over the past two years. And this spring Europe overtook the United States as China's largest trading partner.

Struggling Ireland is also looking for a piece of the action, and moves are afoot to create an "investment gateway to Europe" for China in the town of Athlone, which hopes for the creation of thousands of jobs. Prime Minister Brian Cowen of Ireland said in June that China had vowed to be "as helpful as they can to a friend like Ireland in the difficult times that we have."

The investments also allow Beijing to advance the interests of Chinese companies as they go global. Mr. Wen last month talked up a $4.5 billion credit line that troubled Greek shipbuilders could tap — but almost exclusively to purchase Chinese-made ships. An additional $5 billion is flowing to Greek coffers from China's state-run Cosco shipping company, which is leasing Piraeus, the port of Athens, to transform it from Europe's largest passenger port to a much bigger hub for cargo, with aims to more than double traffic to 3.7 million containers in 2015.

In Italy, Cosco is expanding the port of Naples, while HNA, a logistics, transportation and tourism group based in Hainan Province, China, is in talks to build a giant air terminal north of Rome for cargo arriving from China. Mr. Wen pledged an additional $100 billion in trade with Italy through 2015 and heralded 10 business deals between Chinese and Italian businesses.

Some of China's investments have already raised eyebrows. Last year, China outbid European companies to build a highway in Poland using a Chinese business and workers — with European subsidies — prompting Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany to call for reciprocity.

In the coming decade, Europe will be considering numerous new projects, such as clearing the Danube River of wartime ordnance to use it as a transportation passageway; building railways between countries like Germany and Macedonia; and carving new highways from Germany to Turkey, Mr. Bastian said.

"What Europe lacks is a transportation infrastructure network where Western and Eastern Europe meet," he said. "This is where China is trying to take advantage of their current buildup."

Still, for all the fears of ulterior motives on China's part, many Europeans welcome the investment with open arms. China is mainly interested in promoting trade and making money, said Mr. Pamboukis, the Greek minister of state.

China's investment strategy in Europe is "discreet and well thought-out," he said. "I don't think China is coming in here as a Trojan Horse."
 

seopackages

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It seems highly unsustainable unless all countries participate in the council and to participate in this project. Even then, it seems that from a distance. Not only do not need high-speed lines only to transport goods.
 
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