China has no brand name recognition

nimo_cn

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Similar opinions are echoed in China.
If we use US or Japan as benchmarks, does China have much brand recognition? Hardly.

Lenovo, Haier, Hisense, we Chinese may be familiar with them, and they may be popular in third-word countries. But compared with big brands such as Sony, LG, HP, they are still very immature. They still need more time to grow up.

Some members' posts about why China still hasn't built world-famous names did make sense. But many of you neglected the deeper reasons.

Firstly, in the past 30 years, Chinese companies were not so anxious to explore the foreign markets because China itself is a large market which was untapped at that time. Most of them could survive and thrive as long as they focus on Chinese market. They were not compelled as Japan and Korea to perform abroad.

But as the competitions in China are becoming stiffer and stiffer, and many Chinese companies have accumulated enough resource, some of them are trying to compete in foreign markets. Some of them buy famous western brand in the hope of gaining recogniton in a short time. Unfortunately, as we saw, many of them failed. Their inexperience and incompetence were blatantly exposed, so we are having this discussion here. Nevertheless, they tried to go out instead of crouching in China and more importantly they will try again and again in the future.

Brand building is a time-comsuming task for companies, it needs persisting effort and investment. As long as they keep trying, i believe we will see some Chinese big names in the future.

Secondly, i belive how many famous brands a country owns is connected with the development of that country. China is still a developming country, how many big names can you expect of a country in which there still are more than 40 million people living in poverty?

BTW, in my eyes, Tata can hardly be called a world famous brand if compared with Sony, Ericsson.
 
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SHASH2K2

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"BTW, in my eyes, Tata can hardly be called a world famous brand if compared with Sony, Ericsson. "

Sony Ericcson is in domain where we use their products in day today life and hence it will always be more famous.

Ask any person who is in IRON or Vehicle industry about TATA and you will know its brand value .
TATA is lowest cost Iron producer and also producer of Cheapest small car .
Its TATA which acquired CORUS , JAGUAR .
 

nimo_cn

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"BTW, in my eyes, Tata can hardly be called a world famous brand if compared with Sony, Ericsson. "

Sony Ericcson is in domain where we use their products in day today life and hence it will always be more famous.

Ask any person who is in IRON or Vehicle industry about TATA and you will know its brand value .
TATA is lowest cost Iron producer and also producer of Cheapest small car .
Its TATA which acquired CORUS , JAGUAR .
Within India, yes, TATA, is a big name. WIthout India, i doubt. Tell me, how many cars has TATA sold in China last year?
 

p2prada

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Brand building is a time-comsuming task for companies, it needs persisting effort and investment. As long as they keep trying, i believe we will see some Chinese big names in the future.
Hardly true. Actually, totally untrue. It is not as time consuming process especially for a country which is the second biggest economy . Branding persists on innovation. Huaweii etc do not make products that are completely new. They are working on technologies that have been developed years ago. Merely refining such technologies does not make a brand.

Look at Apple. The company started off with great difficulties and intense competition. But, now it a benchmark for quality. Every single product they released have become a major brand name. Apple imac, ipod, ipad, their computers etc. It isn't just any electronics goods. Teenagers will say proudly they own an Apple product. Apple has such a big name that even if they come out with the sh*ttiest product in the world, people will still buy it. It is because they want that name.

Same with Microsoft and their main consumer brand, Windows Operating System. Who hasn't heard of it.

Brand isn't just the name of a company or product. It comes with innovation and quality that does not exist anywhere else.

Secondly, i belive how many famous brands a country owns is connected with the development of that country. China is still a developming country, how many big names can you expect of a country in which there still are more than 40 million people living in poverty?
In India there is a small car company called REVA. It sells a small electric car mainly in India and Europe and is currently the world's biggest selling electric car ever made. Now, this company has created a brand for itself that cannot be easily matched even by companies like Honda or General Motors. So, any new product they come out with will be easily lapped up by the people because of the brand value of an existing product.

BTW, in my eyes, Tata can hardly be called a world famous brand if compared with Sony, Ericsson.
Nevertheless, TATA has proven itself when it comes to innovation, the same as REVA. The NANO is easily TATA Motors biggest achievement till date and no other company comes close to achieving that even today. That's how a brand is born. People world over know the name.

It has nothing to do with being developed or only developing. It depends on the country's ability to innovate on small and large scales without worrying about its economic consequences. China has no ability to innovate because the private industry is non existent. There is nobody there who wants to create wealth out of a name. The Govt industries cannot do it because they work completely different from private industries, they work on subsidies and are only thinking about profits. Without a proper scheme for innovation there is only stagnation in how much a country can develop. No country has ever developed without innovation and history proves that.

Russia has been building planes, rockets and missiles that are easily among the best in the world. But even they don't have a brand because their technology is controlled by the govt and it can never be used by the ordinary citizens.

A lack of a brand name is critical to the second largest economy on the planet. As the article pointed out there is a huge amount of outflow of money from China because of that. China makes the cars with their people's hard work and it is the companies in the US and Japan that are really making the bigger profits, that too by doing nothing. It is not like TATA will be giving money to Honda for selling Nano in Japan. Rather Honda will pay TATA for selling Nano in Japan.

REVA mainly sells in Europe because the companies in Europe have to pay a huge amount of royalty to REVA for selling their car there. This brings money to India which REVA spends in India itself. Out of 40 cars that are made in a month in Bangalore, 36 are exported and only 4 are for the domestic market. This speaks volumes of how the market works. UK pays REVA nearly double for those 36 cars. REVA boasts of 0 accident fatalities in its 9 year existence. That's a brand name.
 

nitesh

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^^

Can u guys stick to the topic please
 

SATISH

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Within India, yes, TATA, is a big name. WIthout India, i doubt. Tell me, how many cars has TATA sold in China last year?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...plant-in-South-Africa/articleshow/5927886.cms

I dont know about China but it has sold moree than 39000 units in South Africa since 2005 eventhough it was named as the worst performer in 2007, TATA had to start an assembly unit in South Africa to meet the demands there. Mahindra too is right there..

http://www.mahindra.co.za/Modules_FE/layout1/default.asp
 
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SHASH2K2

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Check them all .
http://www.tatamotors.com/our_world/press_releases.php?ID=447&action=Pull

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-03-25-ford-sells-jaguar-land-rover-tata_N.htm

DETROIT — In one of the most significant shifts of clout in the auto industry, Ford Motor (F) is handing the keys to its high-class British Jaguar and Land Rover brands to an Indian company perhaps best known for its heavy trucks.

Ford and Tata Motors on Wednesday announced the anticipated deal for Tata (pronounced TAH-tah) to pay $2.3 billion for the two brands that cost Ford $5.3 billion. Tata says the deal obligates Ford to pay about $600 million into the Jaguar-Land Rover pension fund on closing, so Ford will net only about $1.7 billion.

PHOTO GALLERY: What is Tata Motors
PHOTO GALLERY: Jaguar for sale to good home? (From when sale was first considered)
FORD STATEMENT: Read the release

Tata says it will continue to build the vehicles in the U.K. It said Wednesday that it doesn't expect any significant changes for the workforce of about 16,000 and the transfer will come at the end of the second quarter.

While Tata was named the lead bidder for the brands in January, it remains stunning to think of Ford selling its premium British brands to an Indian company whose car experience has been mostly inexpensive, small cars. The industry, particularly in North America and Europe, has until now been focused on China as the next big world player.

"This represents a first, with an Indian company really stepping outside as an investor with a significant couple of brands," says David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research. "And it enables Ford to convert what has been a pretty extensive part of the company into some needed cash. This is really a pretty big step."

Tata said in its statement that Ford will continue to supply engines, transmissions and other components, as well as environmental and engineering support.

Mike O'Driscoll, managing director of Jaguar Cars under Ford, says he met with top executives, including Ratan Tata, chairman of the parent Tata Group, as the deal was being hammered out and is encouraged that the new owners will let the Jaguar staff run the company with little interference. Tata "will give us some space. They want us to run our business, be a premium British car company."

For struggling Ford, the move sheds two European luxury brands that had become a drag on cash. Particularly draining was Jaguar, into which Ford sank nearly $10 billion trying to revive the brand after spending $2.5 billion to buy it in a deal that closed in 1990.

Tata Motors in spotlight

Wedneday's announcement catapults Tata Motors into a high-profile position in the global auto industry. The brand also made a splash in January with its announcement that it would build a $2,500 car that could replace the motor scooters commonly used in developing countries to cart around whole families.

Tata Motors is a public company controlled by Mumbai-based Tata Group, a huge, private conglomerate with 98 operating companies in industries such as power generation, chemicals, telecommunications and engineering.

Tata Motors earned $420 million in fiscal 2007, according to filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and sold 588,000 trucks and small cars that year.

"They are very serious, very well funded and not inexperienced in cars," says Tom Purves, CEO of BMW North America. "They are probably the best possible owner for Jaguar and Land Rover. Actually, they are probably the only company that could come in and do this."

Blair Sharpe, owner of a Jaguar dealership in Grand Rapids, Mich., says, "I didn't know anything about Tata, but I do now, and I'm very excited about it. It's a new chapter for Jaguar and Land Rover. (Tata) is a big company. They have lots of resources and the money to invest in new products."

Bert Boeckmann, owner of Galpin Jaguar in Los Angeles' San Fernando Valley, says he's encouraged by the sale and that Chairman Ratan Tata has shown enthusiasm for the product. "I think they see this as a unique opportunity to gain some real recognition in the auto industry."

Refocusing Ford

The sale to Tata is central to Ford CEO Alan Mulally's strategy to turn the company around by refocusing the automaker on its core brands: Ford, Mercury and Lincoln.

Ford also needs cash. The automaker lost $2.7 billion in 2007 and posted a $12.7 billion loss for 2006. Mulally is aiming to reach profitability in 2009, which could be tough in a time of declining sales and tight credit.

Once the Tata deal closes, only Volvo will remain from Ford's decade-long European buying spree. Mulally has says he intends to hang on to Volvo, at least for now.

Ford said in March 2007 that it would sell about 92% of its British superpremium brand Aston Martin for $848 million to a consortium made up of David Richards, founder and chairman of motorsport and auto technology company Prodrive; John Sinders, an Aston Martin collector and backer of Aston racing; and two investment companies based in Kuwait. Ford had bought 75% of Aston Martin in 1987 and the rest in 1994.

Ford spent a fortune acquiring Jaguar and, a decade later, Land Rover. It paid $2.5 billion for Jaguar in 1990 after a bidding war of sorts with General Motors. Industry experts at the time estimated that was about $1.2 billion more than Jaguar was worth. Ford has since said the deal was worse than that.

Land Rover cost $2.8 billion in March 2000, when Ford bought the brand from BMW, and was the better deal. Since 1999, its U.S. sales have gone from 29,000 to a projected 46,000 by the end of 2008, according to Rebecca Lindland, an analyst at Global Insight.

Meanwhile, Jaguar's U.S. sales fell from 35,000 to a forecast 17,000 by the end of the year, she says.

Despite current sales, Lindland says, both brands have strong images. "It's the brands that make it worth the money. They're iconic brands with really storied histories." Still, she says, "It's a little bit like Wal-Mart buying Prada."

Lindland says, "Jaguar and Land Rover need a buyer that appreciates their heritage and can restore their glory, especially to Jaguar. "¦It's hard to say whether Tata is that company."

Ford might be lucky to have found any buyer.

"Ford is quite fortunate that it found a strategic buyer in this very difficult market environment, because the credit crisis and general pessimistic outlook on the auto industry make it very difficult for another auto company to close the deal," says John Casesa, managing partner of Casesa Shapiro Group.

The acquisition of Jaguar came during a Detroit spending spree after profitable years in the mid-'80s.

Years after the acquisition, Ford executives were able to joke — if a bit tight-jawed — that they spent $2 billion for Jaguar's sizzle and $500,000 for steak.

Ford was successful at improving Jaguar. A running joke at Jaguar's expense had been that drivers needed two Jags: one to drive when the other was in the shop. Ford installed William Hayden, longtime Ford of Europe vice president, as chairman to oversee the quality overhaul.

After his first tour through a Jaguar plant, he told British magazine Car: "Apart from some Russian factories in Gorky, Jaguar's factory was the worst I had ever seen."

Ford CEO Jacques Nasser, who oversaw the Land Rover deal, was enthusiastic about the fit of the two premium brands, saying, "Internally, we've always called (Land Rover) the Jaguar of off-road vehicles. Now, we can say that publicly." At the time, the luxury SUV market was the most profitable in the USA and among the fastest-growing.

Nasser, a 33-year Ford veteran, was forced out in October 2001, after a series of hot-potato issues, culminating in $3 billion spent for two recalls involving potentially faulty Firestone tires on Ford Explorers. That, atop the cost of the British acquisitions and $6.5 billion for Sweden's Volvo in 1999, put Ford into a financial pinch from which it has yet to recover.

Other foreign alliances

Ford's rough patch with acquisitions is not unusual for Detroit.

Chrysler bought Italian supercarmaker Lamborghini in 1987 for what was estimated at the time as $25 million, hoping to draw on its high-performance heritage and expertise to jazz up Chrysler vehicles. But the automaker sold it in 1993 to a Bermuda holding company.

GM has embedded itself in foreign alliances so long and so often that one of its GPS navigation systems might be required to plot a course through them.

Most disastrous was agreeing to buy 20% of Italy's Fiat Auto Holdings for $2.4 billion in 2000. The agreement gave Fiat Auto the right to require GM to buy the remaining 80% of Fiat Auto at fair market value by 2009, an option GM (GM) quickly realized it didn't want financially struggling Fiat to exercise. GM bought its way out of the option in 2005 by paying Fiat $2 billion.

Gerald Meyers, a consultant who was once chairman of American Motors, says he thought Ford never should have bought Jaguar. But he's equally puzzled by Tata's move.

"It's one of the most illogical buys I could imagine," Meyers says. "If they've got lots of patience and lots of money, and they're willing to hire some very good people, over time they probably could make a thing out of it. "¦ But I don't expect it anytime soon."

Meyers says he's not sure Tata knows what it's gotten into. He estimates it could take $10 billion to straighten out the product lineup and a few billion more to expand the distribution network globally.

Dennis Eynon, president of the 6,000-member Jaguar Clubs of North America, says American drivers just want a company that will do right by the Jaguar brand: "I hope they have the dollars to support a luxury automobile."
 

SHASH2K2

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Tata-Corus: India's New Steel Giant
Published: February 14, 2007
Author: Tarun Khanna
Executive Summary:

By acquiring Anglo-Dutch steel firm Corus, India's Tata Steel is now one of the world's top five steel makers. Professor Tarun Khanna says the fact that the deal is the largest out of India and generated by the private sector makes this a notable event. But now comes the hard part—making the merger work. Can Tata avoid mistakes made by Chinese companies? From The Economic Times/India Times. Key concepts include:

* Tata's acquisition of Corus is notable not only for creating a new steel giant, but also because this deal was a private sector venture far from Indian government influence.
* Tata should be able to make the merger work by virtue of its position of financial strength as well as previous cross-border experiences. The West should not underestimate this heretofore relatively unknown competitor.




The Tata Group is celebrating its acquisition of the Anglo-Dutch steel firm Corus, and the catapulting of Tata Steel into world steel's big-five status (by revenue). It should. The $11 billion deal is a marker in the ground. Not that it is the biggest deal ever from an emerging market.

Recent deals, even attempts, have been bigger. For example, Brazilian firm Companhia Vale do Rio Doce successfully acquired most of Canadian nickel company Inco Limited for $19 billion last year, and Chinese petro giant CNOOC tried, but failed, to pull off an $18 billion acquisition of Unocal in the U.S.

But Tata-Corus is the largest out of India, and is done by a private sector entity of its own volition, away from the shadow of state influence. For these reasons, it bears noticing.

The same euphoria surrounded Shenzhen-based TCL Multimedia when it acquired the French company Thomson's TV assets to become the biggest TV manufacturer in the world (by volume, even if not by revenue) in 2004, just twelve years after TCL entered the TV business in mainland China.

Tata Steel is "¦ acquiring from a position of strength amidst a boom in the world steel market.

In that case, as in Tata-Corus, the rationale was to supplement the customer-facing front-end in the developed markets, with a lower-cost back-end in an emerging market. That is, TCL was trying to buy a sales and marketing structure and a set of brands. Much like Tata is with Corus. But that story had a sorry ending.

TCL chairman Li Dongsheng was awarded a French accolade, Officer de La Legion D'Honneur, the highest honor France had yet bestowed upon a Chinese entrepreneur, but his shareholders don't have much to show for the deal.

TCL had to write off much of its investment. The CNOOC-Unocal deal, in the different setting of the oil industry, also had a sorry ending. So, it is perhaps worth reflecting why Tata-Corus might be different. I believe it will be. Here's why.

First, CNOOC's bid collapsed amid Washington intrigue. The Chinese proved to be babes-in-the-wood in navigating the Byzantine corridors of Washington's power, and underestimated a relentless backlash that unwound the deal. While politics and steel are not alien to each other, there is nothing in Tata-Corus like the level of political concern in the CNOOC-Unocal situation.

Second, TCL acquired Thomson's assets from a position of weakness. Margins at TCL were under pressure from cut-throat competition in mainland China. Even though TCL was one of the largest Chinese TV manufacturers (even prior to the acquisition of Thomson's assets), commodity TVs and other consumer electronics items were not producing good returns.

In contrast, Tata Steel is one of the most profitable, if not the most profitable, steel companies in the world, and is acquiring from a position of strength amid a boom in the world steel market. This will buy it valuable experimenting time and learning space.

Third, there was much difficulty in integrating Chinese and French management. Some of this surely stemmed from language considerations. To an extent, the Indians' greater command of the world's lingua franca will lubricate the inevitably-difficult integration process.

Fourth, the Tatas have built up some experience in the past few years with cross-border acquisitions. Some of this lies within Tata Steel itself, as in its acquisition in Singapore. And the rest lies in the broader ambit of the Tata group through its acquisitions of Daewoo's truck assets in South Korea, Tetley Tea in the U.K. and ritzy hotel properties on the U.S. East Coast.

TCL had some experience taking over factories in Vietnam and environs, and also a failed bid for a much smaller German company, but nothing to prepare it for the Thomson assets' integration.

Fifth, there is learning in the ambience. That is, India Inc. has built up, and is building up, its own cross-border acquisition capability. This arises not just from entrepreneurs who have been doing this for years like the Birlas and Asian Paints but also from more recent moves by India's pharmaceuticals, software, and auto component sectors, among others.

Cross-border experiences with integrating diverse management teams, communicating across borders and time zones, and integrating compensation practices, are not as new to the Tata group as they might well have been to the hapless TCL management team.

And finally, my feeling is that the Indians are still underestimated in the West, at least relative to the Chinese. This complacency might well prove to be the biggest weapon available to the new big-five kid on the block from Jamshedpur.

http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/5634.html
 

nimo_cn

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Hardly true. Actually, totally untrue. It is not as time consuming process especially for a country which is the second biggest economy . Branding persists on innovation. Huaweii etc do not make products that are completely new. They are working on technologies that have been developed years ago. Merely refining such technologies does not make a brand.
Before i decided to reply to this, i didn't plan to defend Huawei any more, because i have done that enough times. But after seeing so many Indians bragged about TATA and belittled Huawei, i said to to myself, why not?

There are 6 major telecom equipments manufacturer in the world, and Huawei is one of them,and more importantly, Huawei ranks the second. And you denied Huawei is a wrold famous brand. I guess you will still deny that if Huawei becomes the first.

Look at Apple. The company started off with great difficulties and intense competition. But, now it a benchmark for quality. Every single product they released have become a major brand name. Apple imac, ipod, ipad, their computers etc. It isn't just any electronics goods. Teenagers will say proudly they own an Apple product. Apple has such a big name that even if they come out with the sh*ttiest product in the world, people will still buy it. It is because they want that name.
When it comes to high-tech sectors, it all depends on the technology. Of course innovation is also important, but technology is the foundation. It is the technology accumulation that gives the birth to Apple, not just innovation. Products like Apple can never be born in China or India, if the two stay where it is in the term of technology. And the accumulation of technology is time-consuming.

Same with Microsoft and their main consumer brand, Windows Operating System. Who hasn't heard of it.
Microsoft could be founded in USA because American owned the most computers in the world at that time. When Bill Gate set up Microsoft, what were most Chinese and Indians doing? Operating a computer? Most of our families could not even afford a TV set. Do you expect Chinese or Indians to use their magic innovation to build a company like Microsoft at that time?

BTW, inventing a car like NANO can not be called innovation.
 
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nitesh

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nimo_cn

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http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...plant-in-South-Africa/articleshow/5927886.cms

I dont know about China but it has sold moree than 39000 units in South Africa since 2005 eventhough it was named as the worst performer in 2007, TATA had to start an assembly unit in South Africa to meet the demands there. Mahindra too is right there..

http://www.mahindra.co.za/Modules_FE/layout1/default.asp
To be honest, 39000 is not a very convincing number.

In my opinion, TATA is a famous company, but it can not be called a brand as per the criteria set in the previous posts. TATA is well known because it is big, but TATA's products is not so impressive.
 

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SHASH2K2

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Number game is for Chinese companies.
Indian companies believe in Quality .
 

nitesh

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You got me, Huawei is just the second largest telecom equipment vendor.

Since the list in the link is called the most admired companies, i think few Chinese company will get into that list in a near future, given China is still being considered as an evil communist country.
Well this is ur company's problem that they are not able to build brands no one else's
 

badguy2000

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Number game is for Chinese companies.
Indian companies believe in Quality .
hahahaa, I can't help laughing aloud now....=xD

yes ,india has quality,but people all over the world seem not interested to buy india's high quality goods,but to buy Chinese poor-quality goods...

hahaha...low quality defeats the high quality.....haha
 
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nitesh

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Number game is for Chinese companies.
Indian companies believe in Quality .
Well u have point just an example, little old but handy:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/4602/NATION/Small+is+the+new+big.html

Neeraj Gupta, who heads the company�s foreign sales department, recalls the time, five years ago, when foreign firms cited lower costs in China to counter his price. Recently, however, Gupta bagged a $15-million (Rs 60 crore) order to armour Turkish naval frigates despite his quote being 40 per cent higher than his nearest competitor�s.

�When I recently asked a foreign defence company if the Chinese were not competing any more, they said they were looking for armoured protection, not soft toys,� he explains.
 

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