China Economy: News & Discussion

SexyChineseLady

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Btw India invited Musk for the same reasons China did . That we'd have a global brand which acted as a magnet for more investment especially in high tech areas or tech of the future. The idea was never to depend on domestic sales but to use India as a mfg base to export .
You people live in bizarro world.

So Musk would invest in a place where he can't depend on local sales and needs to build a local supply chain from scratch?

Why would he ever take that offer unless forced by politics? There is no economic reason. In China, he is selling 75000 cars every month and is hooked into an existing eco-system that allowed him to export into Europe. His one plant in China makes more cars than the other five he has in the US and Germany!

You Indians have very a strange way of thinking.
 

Azaad

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You people live in bizarro world.

So Musk would invest in a place where he can't depend on local sales and needs to build a local supply chain from scratch?

Why would he ever take that offer unless forced by politics? There is no economic reason. In China, he is selling 75000 cars every month and is hooked into an existing eco-system that allowed him to export into Europe. His one plant in China makes more cars than the other five he has in the US and Germany!

You Indians have very a strange way of thinking.
Err yes. The idea was to lay out the red carpet so that Tesla established EVERYTHING including their supply chains in India & used this country as a mfg base to export . Why else would the GoI roll out the red carpet ?

Incidentally Tesla's thinking of / already in the process of establishing a mfg plant in Indonesia. Except for huge deposits of Lithium & perhaps cobalt what else are the advantages of establishing a mfg plant in Indonesia ? Or are you saying Indonesia provides a bigger market than India for Tesla products or all EVs for that matter ?

The reasons why Musk was myopic were given in the previous posts by myself . Not my problem I'd you've ignored it .


 

rockdog

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Recent heard from his investor meeting, Tesla will try to reach 10 millions production capability per year. He came here to get support from both government and supply chains. Maybe be first increase the Shanghai factory from 1 million to 2 million production rate per yr.


World richest man Musk with China richest man Zeng, head of CATL.

IMG_20230530_202210.jpg
 

SexyChineseLady

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Err yes. The idea was to lay out the red carpet so that Tesla established EVERYTHING including their supply chains in India & used this country as a mfg base to export . Why else would the GoI roll out the red carpet ?

Incidentally Tesla's thinking of / already in the process of establishing a mfg plant in Indonesia. Except for huge deposits of Lithium & perhaps cobalt what else are the advantages of establishing a mfg plant in Indonesia ? Or are you saying Indonesia provides a bigger market than India for Tesla products or all EVs for that matter ?
What is red carpet? No "red carpet" is equivalent to 75000 cars in sales per year and not having to spend billions on a local supply chain for any company! Corporations are set up to sell and make money after all.

Indonesia? Chinese firms are big there! RCEP and a pretty significant middle class to start off. Mineral wealth doesn't hurt.

But a key is easy access to components from China and the rest of East Asia with RCEP with pretty significant local market potential of 300M people.
 

SexyChineseLady

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Recent heard from his investor meeting, Tesla will try to reach 10 millions production capability per year. He came here to get support from both government and supply chains. Maybe be first increase the Shanghai factory from 1 million to 2 million production rate per yr.


World richest man Musk with China richest man Zeng, head of CATL.

View attachment 208068
Can't wait till he hooks SpaceX into China's eco-system too! :D
 

Azaad

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3 chairmen in one year. Although the news is of November 2022 , it doesn't inspire confidence especially when the Airline reported billions of yuans in loss for the first three quarters. Or is this another stunt by CCP to demonstrate the overwhelming success of the C-919 & ARJ-21 aircrafts?

@Blademaster ; @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon ; @srvester ; @SKC ; @NutCracker
 

Azaad

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What is red carpet? No "red carpet" is equivalent to 75000 cars in sales per year and not having to spend billions on a local supply chain for any company! Corporations are set up to sell and make money after all.

Indonesia? Chinese firms are big there! RCEP and a pretty significant middle class to start off. Mineral wealth doesn't hurt.

But a key is easy access to components from China and the rest of East Asia with RCEP with pretty significant local market potential of 300M people.
Lady if I were promised 75000 units of sales per month every month for 5-6 yrs after which I'd go into losses & more losses such that it'd eventually bankrupt me , I'd politely decline the offer & move on. Musk didn't. Let him face the music.

Ofc Chinese firms are there. What's that got to do with domestic demand? In the past 4-5 yrs since India repeatedly invited Tesla, Indian companies have geared up to set up / will be setting up in a year or 2 giga factories for mfg battery packs, invest in R&D for battery chemistry, mfg for power trains & electric motors etc.

Besides apart from supply chains weren't you pointing out towards domestic demand? Hence I'm repeating my question to you - do you actually see Indonesia as having a bigger market for Tesla & other EVs as compared to India?

RCEP in ASEAN is a Trojan horse for importing Chinese wares as we've discovered long ago & the world's discovering now. Don't act surprised later when exports from ASEAN acting as a front for China like in EVs attract high tariffs & Non Tariff barriers from the EU, US, Canada, India , etc restricting you to the global south where your quantities & margins both go for a toss.
 

skywatcher

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Recent heard from his investor meeting, Tesla will try to reach 10 millions production capability per year. He came here to get support from both government and supply chains. Maybe be first increase the Shanghai factory from 1 million to 2 million production rate per yr.


World richest man Musk with China richest man Zeng, head of CATL.

View attachment 208068
there must exist some ulterior motives behind Elon's flattering
i_f25.png

9da82ba5gy1hegn3c4mv9j20u01jaqet.jpg
 

SexyChineseLady

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there must exist some ulterior motives behind Elon's flatteringView attachment 208072
View attachment 208071

Yes, China's space industry and supply chain.

China will be mass producing the vehicles for space travel like EVs (and ships and HSR rolling stock among others.)

China is among the very few countries that could productionize space travel.

Also, don't forget Maglev, Musk coined the "hyperloop" term. China will set up the supply chain for EM products probably before anyone else.

Elon Musk is a smart man.
 

SKC

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3 chairmen in one year. Although the news is of November 2022 , it doesn't inspire confidence especially when the Airline reported billions of yuans in loss for the first three quarters. Or is this another stunt by CCP to demonstrate the overwhelming success of the C-919 & ARJ-21 aircrafts?

@Blademaster ; @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon ; @srvester ; @SKC ; @NutCracker
Well, they can take pride in fact that they were able to make a finished plane.

However, an Airliner in current world is a combined effort. Most of the Subsystems are from US and Airbus. It is simply impossible to make each and every subsystem (let alone each and every component) indigenously and independently.

So, if your govt has strong will and ready to work with even your public enemy then you can have a functioning airliner.
 

srevster

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The 9.9% erosion: China’s struggling economy
From multiple and significant angles, China’s economy is under heavy strain. In particular, the nation has experienced rare civil unrest due to its strict zero-COVID-19 policy, which locked down vast sections of the economy, lowered industrial output and curbed consumer spending.

Some important metrics offer evidence of an economic contraction. The country’s exports dropped 9.9% in December 2022, while a slowdown in growth also weighs on the country’s outlook. That latter, experts say, stemmed from the nation’s excessive investment in metals like steel and aluminum.

You could take the export drop with a grain of salt, though. Steep inflation in the U.S., Europe and elsewhere has moved consumers to tighten their belts. So far, there’s no evidence to support another nation taking China’s place as a dominant source of cheap goods.

That noted, the nation’s debt has risen rapidly over the past decade, particularly among state-owned enterprises and local governments. That could hinder China's ability to limit future economic shocks. What’s more, ongoing trade tensions with the U.S. and other countries have added to the uncertainty.

But again, shoppers at Walmart and Target love low-priced wares and aren’t about to go on a long-term spending fast. (Nor will smartphone makers be moving out of China anytime soon.) The International Monetary Fund, meanwhile, expects China’s economy to grow 5.2%, an increase from its October forecast of 4.4%.

Still, China’s economic headwinds could lead to major impacts. Any slowdown in the Chinese economy will create new price pressures in the U.S. if its export prices rise — and hurt the demand for U.S. products.

The 800 million population puzzle: aging out
As for its population, China suffers from a disadvantage in its demographics.

China’s population is getting older — fast. As its people age and retire, fewer working-age individuals are around to support them. The United Nations forecasts the nation’s population — now roughly 1.42 billion — to fall below 800 million by the year 2100.

The nation’s one-child policy, in place for more than three decades before it ended in 2016, exacerbated the problem and today threatens long-term economic prospects. Citing steep drops in birth rates, China in 2021 began to let couples have up to three children. Will it increase the workforce? Right now, it’s impossible to say.
 

SexyChineseLady

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Well, they can take pride in fact that they were able to make a finished plane.

However, an Airliner in current world is a combined effort. Most of the Subsystems are from US and Airbus. It is simply impossible to make each and every subsystem (let alone each and every component) indigenously and independently.

So, if your govt has strong will and ready to work with even your public enemy then you can have a functioning airliner.
Yes. The C919 is basically like every other airliner. China has many contractors supplying parts to foreign aircraft.

Not only with Airbus where China supply a lot of the components going into their assembly line at Tianjin but also with Boeing!!!


IMG_8898.jpeg


IMG_8899.jpeg
 

SKC

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RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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3 chairmen in one year. Although the news is of November 2022 , it doesn't inspire confidence especially when the Airline reported billions of yuans in loss for the first three quarters. Or is this another stunt by CCP to demonstrate the overwhelming success of the C-919 & ARJ-21 aircrafts?

@Blademaster ; @RoaringTigerHiddenDragon ; @srvester ; @SKC ; @NutCracker
Just like most companies in China, CCP has its hands in this one too. “Election” is by the CCP and not shareholders. China has a fundamental travel demand problem due to millions losing their jobs. This cannot be solved by changing chairmen or inducting C919. But it is CCP, they are known for doing stupid things. This is no exception.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Lady if I were promised 75000 units of sales per month every month for 5-6 yrs after which I'd go into losses & more losses such that it'd eventually bankrupt me , I'd politely decline the offer & move on. Musk didn't. Let him face the music.

Ofc Chinese firms are there. What's that got to do with domestic demand? In the past 4-5 yrs since India repeatedly invited Tesla, Indian companies have geared up to set up / will be setting up in a year or 2 giga factories for mfg battery packs, invest in R&D for battery chemistry, mfg for power trains & electric motors etc.

Besides apart from supply chains weren't you pointing out towards domestic demand? Hence I'm repeating my question to you - do you actually see Indonesia as having a bigger market for Tesla & other EVs as compared to India?

RCEP in ASEAN is a Trojan horse for importing Chinese wares as we've discovered long ago & the world's discovering now. Don't act surprised later when exports from ASEAN acting as a front for China like in EVs attract high tariffs & Non Tariff barriers from the EU, US, Canada, India , etc restricting you to the global south where your quantities & margins both go for a toss.
@SexyChineseLady cannot understand any of the things you wrote. It has extremely low IQ and cannot form a thought of its own. Non-CCP approved thoughts are forbidden.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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In short in spite of kowtowing to the CCP & accepting all their demands Musk is phucked. Good ! GoI should await Musk's overtures now that he dismissed India's invitations in the past. This is classic myopic western thinking at work where short term gains or greed blinds them to longer term losses which could well be terminal for many such companies going ahead .

Kudos to the Chinese for paying the pale faced barbarians in their own coin. Some part of the 170 yrs or humiliation is avenged. A lot more needs avenging. Hopefully that would be accomplished when China retakes Taiwan.
It is not myopic. The US markets reward CEOs for short term gains more than holding back and win long term gains. Gaining market share as fast as possible gets rewarded quite a lot. Most founders in the US develop companies at breakneck speed, sell it off for billions and retire. Then the CEOs come in and pick off the rest. No one cares about my longevity. Very few companies in the US have longevity now.
 

skywatcher

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Yes, China's space industry and supply chain.

China will be mass producing the vehicles for space travel like EVs (and ships and HSR rolling stock among others.)

China is among the very few countries that could productionize space travel.

Also, don't forget Maglev, Musk coined the "hyperloop" term. China will set up the supply chain for EM products probably before anyone else.

Elon Musk is a smart man.
The only problem is E Musk knows very well that his Model 3 is industrial garbage and only Chinese are willing to buy it anyway.
i_f25.png
 

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