China Economy: News & Discussion

Bhurki

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Does somebody actively track China High speed rail?
The plan was to reach 30,000 km route length by 2020. However, considering by 2018 end, 29000 km was completed and another 3200 km scheduled for 2019, i think the target may have already been achieved.
 

Armand2REP

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Does somebody actively track China High speed rail?
I do track the debt which has risen to over 18 trillion RMB between CRC and local governments. It has gotten to the point all of the entities involved with HSR can no longer service the debts. CRC is going through restructuring which is the Chinese equivalence of bankruptcy.
 

Bhurki

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I do track the debt which has risen to over 18 trillion RMB between CRC and local governments. It has gotten to the point all of the entities involved with HSR can no longer service the debts. CRC is going through restructuring which is the Chinese equivalence of bankruptcy.
Wow..didnt know that.
Awesome snide segue though..
The maximum number i came across was 5.74 trillion yuan. Mind attaching a link?
If they don't increase the use of lines in operation, they'll have to auction them off or sit under a mountain of NPA.
 

Armand2REP

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Bhurki

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The debts together could be as high as 18.29 trillion yuan, according to some estimates.

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2019-0...hinas-high-speed-rail-the-debt-101375797.html
Jinx... Was literally reading the same page right now. This has been derived from a report by stratfor.
The 18 trillion yuan is including loans from Local government financing vehicle( LCFV)
which are loaned out of local body coffers.
CRC, as a corporation, is not liable to repayment of these loans.
These are expected to be paid by the local, provincial govt. since they enjoy the added economy benefits that high speed rail produces from the beginning as manufacturing, employment spur and long term benefits like real estate value enhancements and growing mobility of working class.
On a construction scale basis, its a bit easier to understand. CRC produces a km of hsr at $25-30 million(2018 numbers, aggregated average over tunneling and viaduct construction), over 30,000 km the cost can be $750-900 billion (6 trn yuan). So its quite unlikely that total loans have crossed this figure since debt has been routinely serviced. Also, i don't think the hsr program is entirely credit based, with central government taking up at least 20% of annual financing of hsr from revenue reciepts directly.
 
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Armand2REP

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Jinx... Was literally reading the same page right now. This has been derived from a report by stratfor.
The 18 trillion yuan is including loans from Local government financing vehicle( LCFV)
which are loaned out of local body coffers.
CRC, as a corporation, is not liable to repayment of these loans.
These are expected to be paid by the local, provincial govt. since they enjoy the added economy benefits that high speed rail produces from the beginning as manufacturing, employment spur and long term benefits like real estate value enhancements and growing mobility of working class.
On a construction scale basis, its a bit easier to understand. CRC produces a km of hsr at $25-30 million(2018 numbers, aggregated average over tunneling and viaduct construction), over 30,000 km the cost can be $750-900 billion (6 trn yuan). So its quite unlikely that total loans have crossed this figure since debt has been routinely serviced. Also, i don't think the hsr program is entirely credit based, with central government taking up at least 20% of annual financing of hsr from revenue reciepts directly.
Jinx... considering the guy who runs Caixan sits on the State Council you can consider it a state run media group. They wouldn't print it if it wasn't close to true, it is probably much higher than that as they always underestimate. Accounting standards in China are non-existent.

From the CRC to local governments that fund HSR the only thing it has lead to is insolvency as they can't even maintain the service cost of the debts. $900 billion is close to what CRC acknowledges they owe, it is much higher. They have been forced into restructuring as they cannot meet the service cost of their massive debt pile.

The lesson we have learned from China is that HSR is nothing but a debt trap and you would be wise to avoid it.
 
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Bhurki

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The lessen we have learned from China is that HSR is nothing but a debt trap and you would be wise to avoid it.
Somebody tell the world bank about it.
https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/p...speed-rail-offers-lessons-for-other-countries
China’s Experience with High Speed Rail Offers Lessons for Other Countries
“China has built the largest high-speed rail network in the world. The impacts go well beyond the railway sector and include changed patterns of urban development, increases in tourism, and promotion of regional economic growth. Large numbers of people are now able to travel more easily and reliably than ever before, and the network has laid the groundwork for future reductions in greenhouse gas emissions,” said Martin Raiser, World Bank Country Director for China.
 

amoy

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amoy

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Carrefour sells China business to Suning.com

The purchase price for the acquisition of 80 percent of Carrefour China shares is 4.8 billion renminbi, or 620 million euros," it said, indicating the deal was expected to be completed by the year's end.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-to-buy-80-of-carrefour-china-for-699-million

Costco cuts debut short after shoppers swamp store

While membership-based hypermarkets have been successful, other overseas retailers have mostly received a cold shoulder from Chinese consumers.

http://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/201908/28/WS5d6580e6a310cf3e3556831b.html
 

amoy

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China is almost an cashless society and one with a smartphone alone is able to survive everywhere.

PayPal isn't competitive Imo.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/30/tech/paypal-gopay-china-payments/index.html

China's central bank has approved PayPal's (PYPL) acquisition of a 70% equity interest in GoPay, the companies announced Monday. PayPal says this makes it the first foreign firm licensed to provide digital payment services in China.

The deal opens the door for PayPal to process digital transactions in China — which are estimated to total in the trillions. But it may not be an easy market to break into. Chinese digital payments services Alibaba (BABA)'s AliPay and Tencent (TCEHY)'s WeChat Pay have dominated that market, in part by making it easy for merchants to use their services and accept payments from mobile phones rather than setting up the infrastructure to accept credit card payments. As of last year, more than 8 million brick-and-mortar stores in China accepted AliPay.
 

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Philippine police arrest over 500 mostly Chinese for fraud
MANILA, Philippines (AP) — Philippine police and immigration authorities said they have arrested more than 500 illegally working foreigners, mostly Chinese involved in telecommunications and investment scams, in one of the biggest such mass arrests this year.

The 542 foreigners, who were arrested Wednesday night in a raid on their company premises in metropolitan Manila, did not have work permits and were involved in defrauding victims mostly in China by blackmailing or tricking them into sending out money, said Immigration Commissioner Jaime Morente and other officials.

The Chinese government provided information that led to the arrests of more than 400 Chinese and other workers from Myanmar, Malaysia, Vietnam, Taiwan and Indonesia, said police Maj. Gen. Guillermo Lorenzo Eleazar.

https://news.yahoo.com/philippine-police-arrest-over-500-044512192.html
 

amoy

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China's high-speed railway connecting Beijing and Shanghai submitted an application to the country's stock regulator for a public listing.

The China Securities Regulatory Commission (CSRC) disclosed the filing information on its website, showing it received the Jinghu Expressway Railway Company's planned initial public offering (IPO) on Oct. 22.

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/bei...mits-ipo-to-chinas-stock-regulator-2019-10-24


Its Jan- Sept operating revenue reportedly amounts to CNY 25bln.
 

Armand2REP

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Chinese companies targeted as wave of destruction hits Hong Kong



Mainland Chinese banks were smashed, with multiple Bank of China ATMs ripped out and branches flooded with fire hoses, while close by other banks were left untouched.

Chinese brands from smartphone maker Xiaomi to pharmacy chain Tongren Tang had shopfronts set alight and stores smashed along Nathan Road in Hong Kong.

More than 350,000 people assembled at Tsim Sha Tsui, many in decorative masks, and marched peacefully along Nathan Road and Canton Road towards the high-speed rail link to mainland China in the afternoon.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/c...struction-hits-hong-kong-20191021-p532jp.html
 

Bhurki

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smooth manifold

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https://amp.scmp.com/economy/china-...i-high-speed-rail-operator-plans-stock-market
Beijing-Shanghai high-speed rail operator plans stock market listing after making US$1.4 billion profit in 2018
According to the filing, published by the China Securities Regulatory Commission on Friday, Beijing-Shanghai High Speed Railway Co, which operates the 1,300km (807 mile) line, booked a net profit of 9.5 billion yuan (US$1.3 billion) in the first nine months of the year.
it is one of the few lines that are profitable. in remote western regions, the lines are not so profitable. they only have strategic significance. to make the frontier regions closer to the core. Xizang(Tibet) is the only province that has no high speed rail. it's technologically challenging and unsafe (4KM high plateau and extreme temperature and elevation variation)and economically infeasible (only 3 million residents) to build a high speed speed rail. the aim is to reach every provincial capital within one day(except Lhasa) not affected by weather.
 
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