China Economy: News & Discussion

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

In a bad economy, unemployment goes up.

It's the same in all countries.

India jobless rate rises to more than two-year high, CMIE says - CNBC TV18

Business News: Get the latest Business News, Live Share & Stock Market Updates, Top News from India and across world. Read Top Business News and updates on financial, economic and banking news on CNBCTV18.

www.cnbctv18.com

Indians have much better social security that only average Chinese could only dream of. The reality is very different from the CCP echo chamber.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

At least know the unemployment rate in India

India's growing 'Modi-made' economic crisis continues to spiral out of control: Congress on 'rising' unemployment rate

Congress accuses PM Modi of leaving a legacy of record unemployment as India's jobless rate reaches a two-year high. The party cites data from CMIE and highlights growing economic distress. Unemployment challenges educated youth, raising concerns.

economictimes.indiatimes.com

Ok…first you are an autocratic nonsense. So you don’t have any idea how democracies work and how opposition parties just say baseless things to win votes. When you don’t know that, why quote an opposition politician? First create an opposition in your own country who can slander Xinnie the Poop left and right. Then you can quote indian politicians.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Interesting, I just bought a Mi 75 inch LED TV, the double 11 promotion was $350.

View attachment 228565



View attachment 228564



I also searched the Mi India online store and flipkart Diwali,

Mi store 65 inch is $760.

View attachment 228561



TCL 75 inch is $850.


View attachment 228562


I think India couldn't product such size of LED screen, so the import tax would be 20% to India?

So for such kind of "simple" product, even India assembly cost is 30% of China, and most parts imported from China with 20% duty, the pricing is still at least 2 twice high ...
@Azaad @ym888 any analysis？

Talk to me when you can afford a Sony Bravia 85 inches with the most advanced color palette. Minimum price $3500. Lol.

 

[rockdog]

Analysis is MI is junk & no self respecting bloke in India goes in for MI products except their cellphones. MI did enjoy some early successes in other products thanks to the spill over effect of the success it'd enjoyed in cell phones but that quickly died down as most of their other products were inferior as compared to competition especially from Korean & Japanese brands .

Ditto for TCL , Haier or any other Chinese brand in the consumer electronic space except for cell phones which as I've pointed out before happens to have succeeded in India in the VFM or value for money segment purely because There's little to no competition in that segment.

And now Indians have discovered why Chinese brands like Oppo , Vivo , MI etc could afford to be so economically priced in the VFM segment . It's because they never paid any taxes & never intended to in the first place , siphoned off all their profits back to China in fraudulent ways , etc with all of them having to face probes by multiple agencies in India .

Coming back to " global" Chines brands like TCL , Haier , Midia etc , they've been around for nearly 3 decades now in India especially Haier but are nowhere in the top 3 or 5 or even 7 in the products they sell in the consumer electronics business as they're perceived to be junk coz they're of Chinese make . People here perceive there's much more value to be had by purchasing a Korean or Japanese brand which dominate the market here or even European or American ones like Whirlpool or Indian ones like Godrej etc.

One of the reasons their other products are highly priced these days as opposed to what it was in the past is increasing scrutiny by Indian authorities of their business practices which means they're forced to pay up their taxes as opposed to what it was in the past when they evaded taxes which is why you see such a price discrepancy in MI production in China vis a vis India.

For your information let me also clarify till date Haier , TCL & Midea haven't faced any such issues in India which I'm assuming is coz of better trade practices & compliance with Indian law though their performance in India is dismal as compared to other international markets but they remain invested in India as compared to oppo vivo , mi etc who're perceived to be no good players with predatory style behaviour who in my opinion won't last long here thanks to relentless government action on their corrupt business practices.

I m lillte disappointed from you, i thought you would provide some cost constrcture analysis from India side, sorry it's my fault to ask you to reply.

The problem is, those brands are not dumping the TVs with shitty price, but 220% pricing than here.

The only reason here is they are not afraid of local competition, there is no LED/LCD production, so they labelled $700 when it was $350 in China.

I think the LED display would be added 20% duty from India, but when it export from China, the Mi also get 13% VAT refund from government. Plus the assembly cost in India must only 30% lower than China, which means at least 50% profit from Mi.

Now I recalled Lei Jun's strategy, he said the mobile phone was not that profitbal, but the other stuff are more, the mobile is the gateway.

 

[rockdog]

Talk to me when you can afford a Sony Bravia 85 inches with the most advanced color palette. Minimum price $3500. Lol.

Debate with you on whether i can afford $3500?

This is the same year, i was invited to Lei Jun's investment fund private party. 2 months after he met Modi, his hair style didn't change.

BTW, his employee told me they setup a strong local team in India. Now i know Manu is the hero to Xiaomi, never seen such good contribution as local CEO.

 

[Azaad]

I m lillte disappointed from you, i thought you would provide some cost constrcture analysis from India side, sorry it's my fault to ask you to reply.

The problem is, those brands are not dumping the TVs with shitty price, but 220% pricing than here.

The only reason here is they are not afraid of local competition, there is no LED/LCD production, so they labelled $700 when it was $350 in China.

I think the LED display would be added 20% duty from India, but when it export from China, the Mi also get 13% VAT refund from government. Plus the assembly cost in India must only 30% lower than China, which means at least 50% profit from Mi.

Now I recalled Lei Jun's strategy, he said the mobile phone was not that profitbal, but the other stuff is more, the mobile is the gateway.

Samsung 65 inch (1m 63cm) Smart Tvs Online at Best Price | Samsung India

Discover the latest Samsung 65 Inch (1m 63cm) HD, UHD, QLED Smart TVs. Compare our 65 inch TVs by price & specs to find the best one for you at Samsung India.

www.samsung.com

This is the price of a 65" Samsung LED in India. Do you think with the kind of quality MI offers , they're fit to be the equivalent of Samsung in this segment. Is it the same for other segments of the market as far as pricing by MI goes ? Why was MI forced to hike its prices ?

Contrary to what you think Chinese brands like MI , one plus etc are purely operating on price points & don't have anything innovative to offer except a cheap price which has been the case with MI since the beginning. If MI products are retailing at around the same prices as a Samsung which is the market leader it simply means , MI has been forced to comply with Indian tax laws as opposed to what they used to do in the past by flouting the rules , paying no taxes & siphoning off the profits to China under dubious heads till they were caught by Indian agencies & their dubious operations exposed.

Today having no choice in the matter , contrary to what you think of them making whopping profits , when in fact , it may be a case of inflating the price of their existing product profile in India to make up for the tax dues they owe the Indian exchequer , they've had to price their products equivalent to other far more respected brands like Samsung.

Why on earth will an Indian choose junk like MI over the market leader Samsung ?

 

[rockdog]

Samsung 65 inch (1m 63cm) Smart Tvs Online at Best Price | Samsung India

Discover the latest Samsung 65 Inch (1m 63cm) HD, UHD, QLED Smart TVs. Compare our 65 inch TVs by price & specs to find the best one for you at Samsung India.

www.samsung.com

This is the price of a 65" Samsung LED in India. Do you think with the kind of quality MI offers , they're fit to be the equivalent of Samsung in this segment. Is it the same for other segments of the market as far as pricing by MI goes ? Why was MI forced to hike its prices ?

Contrary to what you think Chinese brands like MI , one plus etc are purely operating on price points & don't have anything innovative to offer except a cheap price which has been the case with MI since the beginning. If MI products are retailing at around the same prices as a Samsung which is the market leader it simply means , MI has been forced to comply with Indian tax laws as opposed to what they used to do in the past by flouting the rules , paying no taxes & siphoning off the profits to China under dubious heads till they were caught by Indian agencies & their dubious operations exposed.

Today having no choice in the matter , contrary to what you think of them making whopping profits , when in fact , it may be a case of inflating the price of their existing product profile in India to make up for the tax dues they owe the Indian exchequer , they've had to price their products equivalent to other far more respected brands like Samsung.

Why on earth will an Indian choose junk like MI over the market leader Samsung ?

Good, this is the reply i expect.

Nice sample, but this same 4K 65 inch TV from Samsung, is also 30% cheaper in China, so not only Chinese brands, other brands are also gaining more profit from India, due to you don't have local production.

For 4K TV from Xiaomi, it also less than $400.

------------------------

BTW, maybe you never know that, the Samsung is also massively using LCD from Chinese BOE and other supplier.

CSOT, HKC, BOE are all Chinese LCD/LED makers.


Supply chains in our east Asia is quite integrated and complicated, they are actually no big difference.

But different brands have different strategy on pricing, your "respected brands" to me is sign of lack of knowledge on industry, just my personal pov. ^_^

 

[Azaad]

Good, this is the reply i expect.

Nice sample, but this same 4K 65 inch TV from Samsung, is also 30% cheaper in China, so not only Chinese brands, other brands are also gaining more profit from India, due to you don't have local production.

View attachment 228569


For 4K TV from Xiaomi, it also less than $400.

View attachment 228570



------------------------

BTW, maybe you never know that, the Samsung is also massively using LCD from Chinese BOE and other supplier.

View attachment 228571

Supply chains in our east Asia is quite integrated and complicated, they are actually no big difference.

I thought the idea behind having enhanced duties on any product is to encourage them to have their entire supply chains here beginning with assembly followed by incremental or exponential indigenization of all such sub assemblies.

And the Indian market being very price sensitive , I really don't think companies out here are making whopping profits on highly competitive items which is what the LED segment is all about.

Your reading of the entire situation in India with respect to the price point is highly flawed.

 

[rockdog]

I thought the idea behind having enhanced duties on any product is to encourage them to have their entire supply chains here beginning with assembly followed by incremental or exponential indigenization of all such sub assemblies.

And the Indian market being very price sensitive , I really don't think companies out here are making whopping profits on highly competitive items which is what the LED segment is all about.

Your reading of the entire situation in India with respect to the price point is highly flawed.

The delimma here is, if India raise the duties, ur product will lose advantage from international market, and the duty policy will make you stay away from any free trade system like RCEP.

But if you release the duty, ur local industry has no chance to grow.

I always feel luck we had Deng 35 yrs ago, the later the harder.

 

[rockdog]

I thought the idea behind having enhanced duties on any product is to encourage them to have their entire supply chains here beginning with assembly followed by incremental or exponential indigenization of all such sub assemblies.

And the Indian market being very price sensitive , I really don't think companies out here are making whopping profits on highly competitive items which is what the LED segment is all about.

Your reading of the entire situation in India with respect to the price point is highly flawed.

Another question, i also ordered an installation service for TV on the wall from jd.com, exclude the metal hanger, the pricing was $30, spent 1 hour. The worker told me he would got 6 to 8 tasks per day.

May i know the counterpart from India? If u order from platform?

A good way to compare and understand the labor cost on social level.

 

[Azaad]

The delimma here is, if India raise the duties, ur product will lose advantage from international market,

How ? I'm referring to the domestic market not to exports. It's only when the entire ecosystem is shifted to India or most of it that pricing of exports will be under our control. That doesn't mean we're not exporting now just that the quantities are limited.

and the duty policy will make you stay away from any free trade system like RCEP.

RCEP doesn't interest us . I thought I've told you that innumerable times before .

But if you release the duty, ur local industry has no chance to grow.

Right now we're focusing on building up domestic capacities which means the entire ecosystem. The PLI schemes the Government of India has launched has been a huge success in most areas it has targetted but it remains work in progress.

I always feel luck we had Deng 35 yrs ago, the later the harder.

I've also remarked plenty of times earlier that while a Deng ought to be commended what your great helmsman 2.0 is doing is upturning the entire legacy of Deng .

I think I've also remarked earlier that surprisingly for such an old & rich culture like yours with plenty of texts on strategy & strategic insight , I've never seen a more myopic leadership than the CCP nor a more myopic people than the Chinese today. You seem to think all this is a 100 MTR sprint which is why speed to you is of essence & the means of getting there don't matter much . Eventually this will be your undoing.

Out here there's a famous phrase which roughly translated into English means - one can eat all one wants but can the same person digest everything he's eaten ?

 

[Azaad]

Another question, i also ordered an installation service for TV on the wall from jd.com, exclude the metal hanger, the pricing was $30, spent 1 hour. The worker told me he would got 6 to 8 tasks per day.

View attachment 228572

May i know the counterpart from India? If u order from platform?

A good way to compare and understand the labor cost on social level.

It's unorganised. Most OEM have their own teams . Alternatively online giants or huge consumer electronics retail chains have their own teams . Further 30 USD seems too high . Out here it can be accomplished in half the cost for a 65" TV

 

[Azaad]

Read more at: https://www.deccanherald.com/world/...construction-chinas-new-economic-plan-2758098

More semiconductors, less construction: China's new economic plan https://www.deccanherald.com/world/...&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialshare

 

[srevster]

The delimma here is, if India raise the duties, ur product will lose advantage from international market, and the duty policy will make you stay away from any free trade system like RCEP.

But if you release the duty, ur local industry has no chance to grow.

I always feel luck we had Deng 35 yrs ago, the later the harder.

None of this matters if your population declines and people can't afford to buy TV's because they need to feed their parents.

 

[NutCracker]

Another question, i also ordered an installation service for TV on the wall from jd.com, exclude the metal hanger, the pricing was $30, spent 1 hour. The worker told me he would got 6 to 8 tasks per day.

View attachment 228572

May i know the counterpart from India? If u order from platform?

A good way to compare and understand the labor cost on social level.

I bought this tv, But didn't opt for wall mounts. Still here is other user's review which suggest that wall-mount installation services are free.

 

[Azaad]

I bought this tv, But didn't opt for wall mounts. Still here is other user's review which suggest that wall-mount installation services are free.

View attachment 228574

INR 500/- is approx 6 USD @rockdog

Compare that to what you get charged in China. Further, I don't know which city are these details from but in Mumbai the avg charges for installation is anywhere between 10-15 USD without brackets.

Now if you live in Beijing or Shanghai or Guangzhou I expect the prices to be more than 30 USD just as in Tier 2, 3 & 4 cities in India, those 10-15 USD charged in Mumbai will drop down to 5-10 USD depending on the city concerned.

While most Indians would grumble about the rates it's still much less than what labour costs in China . That's a clear advantage which we've failed to capitalize on until a few years ago .

 

[rockdog]

INR 500/- is approx 6 USD @rockdog

Compare that to what you get charged in China. Further, I don't know which city are these details from but in Mumbai the avg charges for installation is anywhere between 10-15 USD without brackets.

Now if you live in Beijing or Shanghai or Guangzhou I expect the prices to be more than 30 USD just as in Tier 2, 3 & 4 cities in India, those 10-15 USD charged in Mumbai will drop down to 5-10 USD depending on the city concerned.

While most Indians would grumble about the rates it's still much less than what labour costs in China . That's a clear advantage which we've failed to capitalize on until a few years ago .

The more developed of a nation, the more expensive on workforce.

15 yrs ago, me and other 3 people had an average dinner in Seoul of SK, it was $350USD with so so quality and services, meanwhile the entry level of Sumsung digital camera there was only $300, i couldn't understand.

So i think the $30 installation fee for current is OK, it shows the respect to labor force, by this prcing his salary would be $1000-$1400 per month, exact average level in Tier 2 city of China, and for industrial product price will always drop like this 75 inch TV only cost $350.

When the price of workforce in India really goes up, it means ur growth really start to benefit more ur people.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Debate with you on whether i can afford $3500?

This is the same year, i was invited to Lei Jun's investment fund private party. 2 months after he met Modi, his hair style didn't change.

BTW, his employee told me they setup a strong local team in India. Now i know Manu is the hero to Xiaomi, never seen such good contribution as local CEO.


View attachment 228568


View attachment 228566

View attachment 228567

Who the heck is Lei June or Lei July or Lei August? Talk to me when you can afford to drink from a $1000 champagne bottle in a high end club in NYC.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Good, this is the reply i expect.

Nice sample, but this same 4K 65 inch TV from Samsung, is also 30% cheaper in China, so not only Chinese brands, other brands are also gaining more profit from India, due to you don't have local production.

View attachment 228569


For 4K TV from Xiaomi, it also less than $400.

View attachment 228570



------------------------

BTW, maybe you never know that, the Samsung is also massively using LCD from Chinese BOE and other supplier.

View attachment 228571

CSOT, HKC, BOE are all Chinese LCD/LED makers.


Supply chains in our east Asia is quite integrated and complicated, they are actually no big difference.

But different brands have different strategy on pricing, your "respected brands" to me is sign of lack of knowledge on industry, just my personal pov. ^_^

You need to get out of this “China is the only supply chain” thinking. You have been royally screwed on that by the west, thanks to some super idiotic CCP moves. India can arm twist companies to move all sorts of production here. It is only a matter of time. S.Korean and Japanese companies are the true developers and owners of all kinds of display tech. It is a matter of time before a large portion by value of electronics gets manufactured in India.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

None of this matters if your population declines and people can't afford to buy TV's because they need to feed their parents.

In China they eat HSR curry and LCD noodle soup. For desserts, they have EV ice cream.