China Economy: News & Discussion

SexyChineseLady

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Have you invented EVs , Solar panels , Wind turbines , cruise ship building , civil airliner TFs , SMC , advanced lithographic machines , N reactors , etc ?
Does it even matter if they were or not? No country in the Global South invented these things so they should stay poor until they invented something on their own?

Sorry, being innovative means being able to absorb and manufacture products from anywhere and be able to compete on the global market by making better, cheaper and more efficient versions of them.

Did Japan or Korea invent cars? They didn't. But they helped developed their nations through their exports of cars. Same with Taiwan and the microchip :)

India and every other Global South country had not invented those things either. You are content to remain poor and sell only human labor to the West until you invent something the West had not? Maybe you are but in East Asia we are not. We like to compete in things the world buys in bulk!

merely a production house / sweat shop
Please take a closer look:
IMG_6060.png


and this:

IMG_6061.png


No one could compete on high tech to this extent of dominance with just a "sweatshop." This is not grabbing a few billions at one end of things but complete dominance in the bulk of high tech trade.

Especially not when Chinese wages are MANY times that of India and other countries in the developing world. Why can't you people compete in this lucrative trade? You are willing to labor for much lower pay!
 

Azaad

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Does it even matter if they were or not? No country in the Global South invented these things so they should stay poor until they invented something on their own?
Did I say they ought to remain poor ? What was the discussion about ? You were the one tom tomming China's achievements about innovation & hi tech mfg . I asked you what was innovative about China's mfg sector except scale . You've yet to answer it. Instead you come up with all sorts of deflection , obfuscation , negation , other underhand tactics just to not answer the question - all classic tactics that a liar or a propagandist utilizes . It's not the Indians here who're claiming they are the salt of the earth & they're making the kind of progress everybody can only dream of . You are.

Well that's bull crap. What you have achieved 10 - 15 yrs ago , we are achieving today. There's nothing innovative in what we are doing just as there's nothing innovative about what you have done or are doing. Come & boast here once you start actually innovating & inventing ground breaking stuff like the next gen of SMCs , lithographic machines , etc . Right now all we see is some meme infomercial that MSS has generated for wumaos to spam fora across the world which you're drawing from freely to post here showing everything except what you've innovated.

Sorry, being innovative means being able to absorb and manufacture products from anywhere and be able to compete on the global market by making better, cheaper and more efficient versions of them.
That's scale & that's Xu Yanjun style espionage & reverse engineering which's exactly what I've been referring to since day 1. You must be a really stupid person not to have understood what I've been trying to convey all along only to repeat here exactly what I've been crying hoarse about since months in this sub section on the Chinese economy.

Did Japan or Korea invent cars? They didn't. But they helped developed their nations through their exports of cars. Same with Taiwan and the microchip :)
Actually , Japan was one the pioneers in automobile mfg not just in Asia but the world mfg a steam driven bus in 1903 - the same year Heney Ford incorporated the Ford Motor Company & a car running on gasoline in 1907 a year before Henry Ford mfd the Model T in 1908 , the first mass produced car for the masses . That's innovation. Remember that always !!

In 1904, Torao Yamaha produced the first domestically manufactured bus, which was powered by a steam engine. In 1907, Komanosuke Uchiyama produced the Takuri, the first entirely Japanese-made gasoline engine car.

Please read up more , don't embarass yourself & more importantly don't let me & other Indian members carry the impression you're another dumb Gaokao fail wumao who's incapable of independent thought except disseminating MSS disinformation & propaganda in foreign lands , thereby wasting our time .

India and every other Global South country had not invented those things either. You are content to remain poor and sell only human labor to the West until you invent something the West had not? Maybe you are but in East Asia we are not. We like to compete in things the world buys in bulk!
Spoken like another brain dead stupid wumao who doesn't understand much & uses a Chinese made app to translate English to Mandarin with expected results. Did I ever claim we innovated anything ? Did I not inform you that we are exactly where China was 10-15 yrs ago depending on the sector in question. Or is it your understanding that our GDP is in decline , reducing year on year or the Indian Rupee in freefall . I sincerely hope you're not mistaking us for your iron brother Paxtan .

You're the one posting memes , articles & screen shots of Comac , SMC , Huawei , Build Your Deathmobile , etc day in & day out claiming China's one of the most innovative economies & not the sweat shop of the world moving up the ladder of value addition from mfg shirts toys & other low value items to ships , SMC etc thank the to billions of USD in state subsidies but zero in terms of innovation or invention. The day the west shifts its mfg base as they're doing in the China + 1 strategy now , all your excess production capacity goes out of the window & growth plummets which is what is gradually happening now.

Please take a closer look:
View attachment 227887
*Yawn *

*Yawn + Yawn *

No one could compete on high tech to this extent of dominance with just a "sweatshop." This is not grabbing a few billions at one end of things but complete dominance in the bulk of high tech trade.
One word - scale . That's the only place you're innovative.

Especially not when Chinese wages are MANY times that of India and other countries in the developing world. Why can't you people compete in this lucrative trade? You are willing to labor for much lower pay!
First movers advantage plus western patronage plus billions in USD as subsidies to destroy industrial capacities the world over . Alas ! Everything was going fine till you decide to indulge in sabre rattling with all your neighbours especially Taiwan , make belligerent comments , increase your defense spending drastically thus alarming everyone in the neighborhood & beyond - the west & then the Wuhan virus pandemic struck. Hence all your advantages are gradually being flushed down the toilet along with your economy growth & GDP .

Next time tag me when you've something original & of importance to share not repetition juvenile stupidity & chicanery which is what you've been displaying since the past half a dozen posts.
 
Last edited:

ym888

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Ready to be world's largest spender on R&D
https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202310/30/WS653f0fc4a31090682a5eb662_2.html
Researchers from an automation equipment company in Nanjing, Jiangsu province, prepare for the radiation emission experiment in an electromagnetic compatibility lab on July 7. [JI CHUNPENG/XINHUA]
Govt, corporates lead China's big investments for top technologies to boost growth, innovation
China, including its major corporates, is investing big on research and development for breakthroughs in cutting-edge technologies, to not only make innovation integral to economic growth, but gain a global edge, with 3.08 trillion yuan ($420.9 billion) already allocated for R&D in 2022, up 10.1 percent year-on-year, according to the National Bureau of Statistics, and much more in the offing for the future.
The R&D expenditure of enterprises reached 2.39 trillion yuan in 2022, up 11 percent year-on-year, contributing 84 percent of the country's R&D growth, up 4.6 percentage points from the previous year.
Deng Zigang, a researcher of Southwest Jiaotong University in Chengdu, capital of Sichuan province, epitomizes China's recent thrust on R&D. Five years ago, Deng wanted to develop a vacuum-tube maglev. In the initial stages of executing his ambitious project, he targeted a 45-meter loop and a top speed of 50 kilometers per hour. But, some experts were skeptical. They, Deng recalled, said the eventual outcome of his research would be "a toy", not a serious transportation option.
Such attitudes savaged Deng's confidence, but he did not give up on his dream. Instead, he persisted despite not receiving much recognition for his efforts. Ultimately, his sustained focus on the frontier area paid off — he won the Xplorer Prize co-initiated by Ma Huateng, Tencent Chairman and CEO and founder of the Tencent Foundation, and a number of renowned scientists.
The prize, launched in 2019, encourages talented young scientists to concentrate on basic research and R&D of frontier technologies.
"It really meant a lot to me and our research team as we felt more empowered, more confident, and more motivated," Deng said, adding it is gratifying to see his area of specialization has now become a key focus of research both in China and abroad.
Over the past five years, Deng and his team have developed a high-speed maglev experimental loop in China, making improvements to the project continuously. Theirs is the world's first high-temperature superconductor vehicle test platform that can withstand speeds of up to 620 kilometers per hour, promising a new generation of transportation technology that could benefit not just China, but the entire world. It is an area where several countries and regions are striving for a breakthrough.
According to the NBS, China will scale up R&D budget by more than 7 percent annually during the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-25) period. Consultancy McKinsey & Co said in a report that such a growth target will make China the world's largest spender on R&D.

The NBS said China's R&D expenditure accounted for 2.54 percent of GDP last year, which is 0.11 percentage point higher than the previous year. Though the figure is close to the average of 2.67 percent for Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development economies, it gave China 13th place globally, far behind some developed economies like the United States, which tops the table.

"Although the R&D intensity of China has been continuously increasing, the country's investment in basic research is insufficient, which directly leads to a relative lack of innovations based on complex, underlying supporting technologies and scientific research," said Liu Qiao, dean of the Guanghua School of Management of Peking University, in a note.

Liu said China's position index in the global value chain in 2018 was 0.01 while the US' was 0.29. This means, the US continues to be at the absolute upstream of the GVC and has strong control over core technologies and raw materials. This gives it the power to create constraints for other countries and economies downstream in the GVC.

"To change this situation, China must increase investment in basic R&D and promote Chinese industries to move upstream in the global value chain. Only when breakthroughs are achieved in basic research can we truly break developed countries' vice-like grip on key technologies," he said.

Wu Hequan, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said basic R&D has a high degree of uncertainty, and requires space for trials and errors before success can be attained.

"But if everyone aims for success, there will be few opportunities for disruptive innovations," Wu said. "Thus, it requires joint efforts from researchers, the government and social forces like companies."

To encourage such R&D and support full-time research professionals under 45 working in China, Ma Huateng and a group of renowned scientists initiated the Xplorer Prize, for those working in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, new materials, astronomy, geoscience, advanced manufacturing and other frontier technology areas.

Each prize winner receives 3 million yuan over a period of five years — unprecedented in scale for scientific awards in China. Researchers and scientists who are awarded the prize are free to use the money in the way they deem fit.

In late September, a cohort of 48 young scientists was awarded this year's Xplorer Prize. One of them is geologist and planetary scientist Joseph Ryan Michalski, an associate professor at the University of Hong Kong and a US national, the first non-Chinese to win the prize for his studies on Mars. As of September, 248 young scientists had been awarded the prize. The research achievements of seven awardees have made it into the Top 10 of China's annual scientific advances.

Zhou Huanping, a professor at Peking University and an Xplorer Prize winner, said she gathered more confidence to shift her R&D focus from "short-term and easy projects" to those with "higher uncertainties but greater significance".

Xi Dan, senior vice-president of Tencent, said: "Tencent's aim is to make the most of the flexible advantages of social funds, strive to become a useful supplement to nationally funded basic scientific research.

"We hope to offer scientists more confidence and determination to devote themselves to basic science, stimulate more zero-to-one innovations, and offer more impetus for scientific and technological innovation."

Tencent, he said, is also aiming to explore innovative models of long-term stable support for basic science through social funds, which is also in line with the government's encouragement for companies to play a bigger role in driving social progress and economic development.

Earlier this year, China's top leadership said in Qiushi, the flagship magazine of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, that more efforts should be made to steadily increase financial investment in basic research, encourage enterprises to increase investment through various means such as tax incentives, and encourage them to establish scientific funds, donations and other diversified investments.

Currently in China, several major tech companies are striving to invest in R&D. The NBS said in September that many companies are expanding their investments in important sectors, laying a solid foundation for breakthroughs in core technologies across key fields.

Huawei Technologies Co, Baidu Inc and iFlytek are among the companies devoting funds for R&D that could help not only themselves, but the society at large, by creating social goods.

For instance, in 2018, Alibaba Group initiated the Damo Academy Youth Orange Award to encourage young researchers under 35 to pursue innovations in fields like theoretical mathematics, quantum physics, medicine and semiconductors. It carries prize money of 1 million yuan each. Some 53 young researchers have received the award so far.

Peng Wensheng, chief economist and research head at China International Capital Corp, said in an earlier interview with China Daily: "As demographic dividends gradually decrease, China's economy will rely more on technological innovations in the future. To achieve such technological progress, continuous R&D investment is key. China's R&D investment must be increased 'substantially' in the coming decades to overcome what we call the late-mover disadvantage."
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Kaveri doesn't look so happy,



Mainly relying on French and American technical support
Actually DRDO has rejected tech support for Kaveri engine. You only reject if you think you can do it on your own. Again, you need to keep up with latest developments, so you don’t sound like a broken record.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Ready to be world's largest spender on R&D
https://global.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202310/30/WS653f0fc4a31090682a5eb662_2.html
Researchers from an automation equipment company in Nanjing, Jiangsu province, prepare for the radiation emission experiment in an electromagnetic compatibility lab on July 7. [JI CHUNPENG/XINHUA]
Govt, corporates lead China's big investments for top technologies to boost growth, innovation
China, including its major corporates, is investing big on research and development for breakthroughs in cutting-edge technologies, to not only make innovation integral to economic growth, but gain a global edge, with 3.08 trillion yuan ($420.9 billion) already allocated for R&D in 2022, up 10.1 percent year-on-year, according to the National Bureau of Statistics, and much more in the offing for the future.
The R&D expenditure of enterprises reached 2.39 trillion yuan in 2022, up 11 percent year-on-year, contributing 84 percent of the country's R&D growth, up 4.6 percentage points from the previous year.
Deng Zigang, a researcher of Southwest Jiaotong University in Chengdu, capital of Sichuan province, epitomizes China's recent thrust on R&D. Five years ago, Deng wanted to develop a vacuum-tube maglev. In the initial stages of executing his ambitious project, he targeted a 45-meter loop and a top speed of 50 kilometers per hour. But, some experts were skeptical. They, Deng recalled, said the eventual outcome of his research would be "a toy", not a serious transportation option.
Such attitudes savaged Deng's confidence, but he did not give up on his dream. Instead, he persisted despite not receiving much recognition for his efforts. Ultimately, his sustained focus on the frontier area paid off — he won the Xplorer Prize co-initiated by Ma Huateng, Tencent Chairman and CEO and founder of the Tencent Foundation, and a number of renowned scientists.
The prize, launched in 2019, encourages talented young scientists to concentrate on basic research and R&D of frontier technologies.
"It really meant a lot to me and our research team as we felt more empowered, more confident, and more motivated," Deng said, adding it is gratifying to see his area of specialization has now become a key focus of research both in China and abroad.
Over the past five years, Deng and his team have developed a high-speed maglev experimental loop in China, making improvements to the project continuously. Theirs is the world's first high-temperature superconductor vehicle test platform that can withstand speeds of up to 620 kilometers per hour, promising a new generation of transportation technology that could benefit not just China, but the entire world. It is an area where several countries and regions are striving for a breakthrough.
According to the NBS, China will scale up R&D budget by more than 7 percent annually during the 14th Five-Year Plan (2021-25) period. Consultancy McKinsey & Co said in a report that such a growth target will make China the world's largest spender on R&D.

The NBS said China's R&D expenditure accounted for 2.54 percent of GDP last year, which is 0.11 percentage point higher than the previous year. Though the figure is close to the average of 2.67 percent for Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development economies, it gave China 13th place globally, far behind some developed economies like the United States, which tops the table.

"Although the R&D intensity of China has been continuously increasing, the country's investment in basic research is insufficient, which directly leads to a relative lack of innovations based on complex, underlying supporting technologies and scientific research," said Liu Qiao, dean of the Guanghua School of Management of Peking University, in a note.

Liu said China's position index in the global value chain in 2018 was 0.01 while the US' was 0.29. This means, the US continues to be at the absolute upstream of the GVC and has strong control over core technologies and raw materials. This gives it the power to create constraints for other countries and economies downstream in the GVC.

"To change this situation, China must increase investment in basic R&D and promote Chinese industries to move upstream in the global value chain. Only when breakthroughs are achieved in basic research can we truly break developed countries' vice-like grip on key technologies," he said.

Wu Hequan, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, said basic R&D has a high degree of uncertainty, and requires space for trials and errors before success can be attained.

"But if everyone aims for success, there will be few opportunities for disruptive innovations," Wu said. "Thus, it requires joint efforts from researchers, the government and social forces like companies."

To encourage such R&D and support full-time research professionals under 45 working in China, Ma Huateng and a group of renowned scientists initiated the Xplorer Prize, for those working in fields like mathematics, physics, chemistry, new materials, astronomy, geoscience, advanced manufacturing and other frontier technology areas.

Each prize winner receives 3 million yuan over a period of five years — unprecedented in scale for scientific awards in China. Researchers and scientists who are awarded the prize are free to use the money in the way they deem fit.

In late September, a cohort of 48 young scientists was awarded this year's Xplorer Prize. One of them is geologist and planetary scientist Joseph Ryan Michalski, an associate professor at the University of Hong Kong and a US national, the first non-Chinese to win the prize for his studies on Mars. As of September, 248 young scientists had been awarded the prize. The research achievements of seven awardees have made it into the Top 10 of China's annual scientific advances.

Zhou Huanping, a professor at Peking University and an Xplorer Prize winner, said she gathered more confidence to shift her R&D focus from "short-term and easy projects" to those with "higher uncertainties but greater significance".

Xi Dan, senior vice-president of Tencent, said: "Tencent's aim is to make the most of the flexible advantages of social funds, strive to become a useful supplement to nationally funded basic scientific research.

"We hope to offer scientists more confidence and determination to devote themselves to basic science, stimulate more zero-to-one innovations, and offer more impetus for scientific and technological innovation."

Tencent, he said, is also aiming to explore innovative models of long-term stable support for basic science through social funds, which is also in line with the government's encouragement for companies to play a bigger role in driving social progress and economic development.

Earlier this year, China's top leadership said in Qiushi, the flagship magazine of the Communist Party of China Central Committee, that more efforts should be made to steadily increase financial investment in basic research, encourage enterprises to increase investment through various means such as tax incentives, and encourage them to establish scientific funds, donations and other diversified investments.

Currently in China, several major tech companies are striving to invest in R&D. The NBS said in September that many companies are expanding their investments in important sectors, laying a solid foundation for breakthroughs in core technologies across key fields.

Huawei Technologies Co, Baidu Inc and iFlytek are among the companies devoting funds for R&D that could help not only themselves, but the society at large, by creating social goods.

For instance, in 2018, Alibaba Group initiated the Damo Academy Youth Orange Award to encourage young researchers under 35 to pursue innovations in fields like theoretical mathematics, quantum physics, medicine and semiconductors. It carries prize money of 1 million yuan each. Some 53 young researchers have received the award so far.

Peng Wensheng, chief economist and research head at China International Capital Corp, said in an earlier interview with China Daily: "As demographic dividends gradually decrease, China's economy will rely more on technological innovations in the future. To achieve such technological progress, continuous R&D investment is key. China's R&D investment must be increased 'substantially' in the coming decades to overcome what we call the late-mover disadvantage."
This is a commendable area by the CCP - the singular focus on top technology. This is an area India needs to figure out a way to improve on. Identify 5-10 technologies and relentlessly work on becoming the world leaders in such areas. These are the tech areas I see India can become world beating in:
- medical, biomedical devices and pharma
- defense technologies including jet engines
- 6G wireless and data center equipment
- quantum computing and AI
- metallurgy and advanced materials
- space based hardware and applications
- autonomous vehicles and drones
- green energy supply chain

Things will be a lot clearer in a few areas where India is headed as many of these R&D above have just started in the last few years.
 

rockdog

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The Ukraine-Russia war continues, made EU's engergy price 3 times as before;
The UAW just made deal of 30% salary raise with Big 3 in US;

Now we can see the advantages of Chinese EVs and even the legacy automobile in world market.

I think soon, the US big3 will import cars from their Chinese facotries, of course not mainly by Chinese brands, but with their own, but who cares, they already start to buy the battery and EV tech from China.

The EU already did so. My friend bought a BWM ix3 in Austria, it's made in BMW Shenyang factory.
 
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rockdog

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Actually DRDO has rejected tech support for Kaveri engine. You only reject if you think you can do it on your own. Again, you need to keep up with latest developments, so you don’t sound like a broken record.

In software world there is a saying: Talk is cheap, show me the code!
To Kaveri: talk is cheap, make it fly!

Huh…did you not hear about the GE aircraft engine tech transfer to INDIA?you Need to keep up on developments.
Seems the cooperation goes well, BTW this railway construction going well on Isreal?

corridor.JPG
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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In software world there is a saying: Talk is cheap, show me the code!
To Kaveri: talk is cheap, make it fly!



Seems the cooperation goes well, BTW this railway construction going well on Isreal?

View attachment 227895
It will…countries make decisions that last for decades. A short war is not going to prevent that. It will ultimately happen. No rush. No one can afford to ignore the gigantic Indian market. No one. Not even the Chinese. This route is a game changer and every party knows it.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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In software world there is a saying: Talk is cheap, show me the code!
To Kaveri: talk is cheap, make it fly!



Seems the cooperation goes well, BTW this railway construction going well on Isreal?

View attachment 227895
How about china producing a decent aircraft engine or chip after all that money invested and secrets stolen? India will accomplish both these top tech without wasting money or stealing from others. I am convinced that it is india that will have the developing world’s first top rated aircraft engine and possibly chips as well due to joint development with allies. Not China. Your R&D is not capable of delivering on world beating tech and under CCP it will never be.
 

ym888

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Interesting news. This is the first time that Chinese officials have talked about hiring domestic helpers from the Philippines.

 

rockdog

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@SexyChineseLady

Ancient Chinese rock n roll



U would follow this account, lots of good ancient Chinese melodies.


And the makeup, dressing and quality of videos were quite amazing.
 

ym888

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How about china producing a decent aircraft engine or chip after all that money invested and secrets stolen? India will accomplish both these top tech without wasting money or stealing from others. I am convinced that it is india that will have the developing world’s first top rated aircraft engine and possibly chips as well due to joint development with allies. Not China. Your R&D is not capable of delivering on world beating tech and under CCP it will never be.
There are various grades of engines and chips, which one does India want to make?

China's fourth - and fifth-generation fighters all use locally made engines, and engines for the sixth-generation fighters are also under development.

Locally manufactured 28nm DUV lithography machines could be available within months. EUV will be available in about three years.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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There are various grades of engines and chips, which one does India want to make?

China's fourth - and fifth-generation fighters all use locally made engines, and engines for the sixth-generation fighters are also under development.

Locally manufactured 28nm DUV lithography machines could be available within months. EUV will be available in about three years.
You don’t get it, do you? GE tech transfer isn’t about just transferring blue prints of an engine. It is about transferring the entire technology of making world’s best precision materials and manufacturing processes like the blisk process. While a jet engine is one problem solved out of that, the ability to make top of the line precision goods to western standards is going to put india way ahead of China in many sectors from precision steel to space landers to drones etc. It is going to put india in the top tier of precision manufacturing and that could mean next Gen HSRs, submarines, aircraft components whatever.
The DRDO is excited because it is not a jet engine blueprint transfer like SAFRAN offered but it is a complete underlying precision technology manufacturing that will also help build world class gas turbines. It is a game changing tech for India. The US truly wants to win india over and has handed over one of its most closely guarded secrets.
This will happen in the chips, space industry too as the west increasingly puts all its trust in India. Ericsson and others are already deep into building their 6G technology solely in India. That is 6G standards will be set by India R&D. There has been a massive shift in western cooperation with India, never before seen. Chinese and other anti India countries are in for a shock.
 

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