China Economy: News & Discussion

[SexyChineseLady]

There are 2 ways to secure technology , Chang . The Xu Yanjun way like you've done with COMAC & reverse engineering the Al-31 to create its derivatives in the WS series of TFs or the way we've chosen where we officially enter to ToT agreements , pay a ToT fee & everything is legitimate.

People will always contrast our behaviour to yours & conclude it's better to deal with the Indians than the Chinese for at least with the former there's respect for IPR & the right fee to obtain technologies are paid for in contrast to the Chinese who steal & cheat . That's how long term international reputations are built Chang & rewards are for those who believe in rule of law.

There is little doubt whom people prefer to deal with when it comes to technology

 

[Azaad]

There is little doubt whom people prefer to deal with when it comes to technology

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I think somebody pointed out that this figure also includes trade between HK & China that you're quoting here . Besides do you understand the difference between military grade technology & those in civilian areas or do I have to post about the difference between the 2 by way of explanation ? Btw I'm still awaiting similar graphics on the EV industry forming 30% of your entire GDP as you seem to have claimed earlier replacing the construction industry. What happened to that ?

 

[ym888]

There are 2 ways to secure technology , Chang . The Xu Yanjun way like you've done with COMAC & reverse engineering the Al-31 to create its derivatives in the WS series of TFs or the way we've chosen where we officially enter to ToT agreements , pay a ToT fee & everything is legitimate.

People will always contrast our behaviour to yours & conclude it's better to deal with the Indians than the Chinese for at least with the former there's respect for IPR & the right fee to obtain technologies are paid for in contrast to the Chinese who steal & cheat . That's how long term international reputations are built Chang & rewards are for those who believe in rule of law.

I don't care where the technology comes from or how I get it.

Master the core technology, manufacture in the country,

This is how China succeeds

 

[Azaad]

I don't care where the technology comes from or how I get it.

Master the core technology, manufacture in the country,

This is how China succeeds

Yes that's true. The question is for how long ? You see , what goes around comes around .

 

[ym888]

Yes that's true. The question is for how long ? You see , what goes around comes around .

There will be no end to the technological competition.

The West has taken science and technology from India and it is time to take it back

'Invisible planes in 4th century India, rockets of Krishna's grandson': What states want in NCERT books

Haryana proposes students be taught that Maharishi Kanada is father of atomic theory not John Dalton. YSRCP-led Andhra says need to 'not succumb to superstition in name of antiquity'.

theprint.in

 

[Jaymax61]

(While rest of the world is in a recession with inflation threatening the Western world and India too.)

yeah yeah ... weibo users lying about empty markets and low spending

Here is another one from SCMP. Country Garden's dollar bond default

Country Garden trustee notice declares bond default after missed coupon payment

Chinese developer Country Garden Holdings was deemed to be in default on a dollar bond for the first time ever, and the company is now likely headed for what would be one of the nation’s biggest-ever restructurings.

www.scmp.com

your dhandli ka pitara is now open.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

yeah yeah ... weibo users lying about empty markets and low spending

Here is another one from SCMP. Country Garden's dollar bond default

Country Garden trustee notice declares bond default after missed coupon payment

Chinese developer Country Garden Holdings was deemed to be in default on a dollar bond for the first time ever, and the company is now likely headed for what would be one of the nation’s biggest-ever restructurings.

www.scmp.com

your dhandli ka pitara is now open.

There are a LOT more of these on weibo

 

[rockdog]

Sajjan Jindal to buy Ford's factory, stake in MG India - Times of India

India Business News: Indian steel magnate Sajjan Jindal is reportedly forming a new company by acquiring a stake in MG Motor India, a unit of Chinese company SAIC, and pur

m.timesofindia.com

It's no wonder China & India don't get along & will probably never do so . India's doing to China what China's done to the world .

China also let the BMW and Tesla setup facotories with 100% share, not the JV, waiting the day of India.

 

[Azaad]

China also let the BMW and Tesla setup facotories with 100% share, not the JV, waiting the day of India.

Coz both BMW & Tesla are completely dependent on Chinese vendors for their battery packs among other items that goes into an EV. India is in the process of building up such a network on its own which'd take time . Therein lies the difference.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Yeah

Sometimes, if u r alive, u r the theat to others...

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but what is not said is that the western world has finished construction and infrastructure projects and most of China’s production output is for fake construction projects. There are entire cities in China where the GDP is 100% real estate only. These cities have no economic output and just a pile of debt behind empty apartments. A collapse of the top real estate builders clearly means China’s gdp is in negative growth territory.
You simply cannot make up for a 50% fall in a sector that contributes to 40-50% of your gdp by doing marginally better in other sectors. Plus even your hospitality sectors are massively down as foreign tourism has almost dried up. The consumption portion will not catch up to the fall in gdp as majority Chinese have no savings and no current income due to large scale job losses.
Overall China faces small or negative growth for several years. The CCP cannot afford a stimulus without affecting its sovereign credit rating and making its debt even more expensive. That is why no stimulus. The central government is stuck as top companies and local governments declare bankruptcy one after another.
This will be the outcome: China will compromise with the US in exchange for loosening some trade controls. But it is not a given if lost manufacturing will return to China. China now has a poverty problem once again.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Coz both BMW & Tesla are completely dependent on Chinese vendors for their battery packs among other items that goes into an EV. India is in the process of building up such a network on its own which'd take time . Therein lies the difference.

Why is it always "in the process" with you people?

China has the world's largest auto market and domestic manufacturing base today because it opened up its market to foreign vendors like BMW, VW and GM decades ago.

Tesla was allowed into China in the middle of the current tech and trade war with the US. Think carefully about this! And now Tesla is using its Chinese suppliers and Shanghai plant to export to Europe!!!

Those decisions helped create Chinese suppliers for global companies. They also explains why China is the top car exporting country in the world right now

This also bleeds over to other industries. There is a reason why Airbus has a FAL in China. Why China has civilian aircraft and aero-engines programs while India is still waiting. Global technology and techniques are incorporated and then advanced far easier in China than anywhere else because of these decisions

 

[SexyChineseLady]

China has so many industrial drivers -- in air, land, space and especially the sea!!!

 

[Azaad]

Why is it always "in the process" with you people?

Pls stop boasting & indulging in low IQ , child like propaganda all the time. Did China reach where it did in an instant or was it a gradual transformation process begun during Mao & Nixon's administration which Deng Xiaoping took to fruition from 1978 onwards when he opened up China to the world . Japan ran it's first Shinkasen "bullet train" in the 1960s . What kind of trains was China running then ? Most of your population was busy cannibalising each other in the 1960s during your disastrous 5 pests campaign & great leap forward.

China has the world's largest auto market and domestic manufacturing base today because it opened up its market to foreign vendors like BMW, VW and GM decades ago.

So did India open up it's automobile sector to foreign OEMs in the 1990s including all those names you've named. That's the reason we're the number 3 in terms of automobiles mfg in the world & eventually would be number 2 behind China.

Tesla was allowed into China in the middle of the current tech and trade war with the US. Think carefully about this! And now Tesla is using its Chinese suppliers and Shanghai plant to export to Europe!!!

So ? China's always had this policy of encouraging cutting edge technology , studying it , copying it & eventually coming up with "indigenous" designs mfgd by Chinese firms whether SOE's or private ones .

Those decisions helped create Chinese suppliers for global companies. They also explains why China is the top car exporting country in the world right now

Yes. That's what I remarked on the path China's taken vis a vis advanced technology. There's nothing new or remarkable in it. We've been following it since our inception as a nation only we've been been doing so at our own pace due to our compulsions whereas China's been much more faster & more adaptive in doing so with greater success .

This also bleeds over to other industries. There is a reason why Airbus has a FAL in China. Why China has civilian aircraft and aero-engines programs while India is still waiting. Global technology and techniques are incorporated and then advanced far easier in China than anywhere else because of these decisions

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India's recently ordered more than 2 thousand aircraft with an equivalent number in the pipeline thru two different airlines from Airbus & Boeing. Airbus has an assembly plant in China because China invited them in & gave them preference over Boeing in an obvious move of Divide & Rule since China doesn't trust the US & wanted to favour the EU pitching it against the US.

Airbus responded because it saw an advantage . Besides it didn't want to rub CCP the wrong way by refusing as the CCP is the final arbiter of all such mega purchases in China unlike in India where such purchase decisions aren't dictated by the GoI to private organisations. That's what a democracy is all about .

It's because of this that the GoI lacks enough leverage over either Airbus or Boeing to set up a local assembly line here. But you never know. Tomorrow India could well invite Boeing to set up such an local assembly line & they may well accept for it gives them leverage over Airbus in the Indian market.

As far as your constant boasting over China coming up with an airliner goes , it's an achievement but it's a half baked enterprise for China's still dependent to a great extent for all those vital sub systems which goes into making a civil airliner what it is , on the west with whom you've an adversarial relationship.

Tomorrow if the west sanctions China , you'd be grounding all those airliners faster than you bat your eyelids. Come here when you've indigenized all those sub systems. That's when you'd have built a truly "Made in China civil airliner."

Till then please have some self respect & shut up unless you think you're on weibo & we're CCP slaves who'd simply nod our heads & applaud such hypocrisy , ever fearful of the CCP censor & declining social credits.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Till then please have some self respect & shut up unless you think you're on weibo & we're CCP slaves who'd simply nod our heads & applaud such hypocrisy , ever fearful of the CCP censor & declining social credits.

Well you are the one bringing up India in a Chinese economic thread where you always need to talk about the "future"

These are just some of the new ACTUAL economic drivers in China today:

1) Dominant in EVs

2) Recently became #1 auto exporter!! (Not just EV exports but ICE too!

3) Airliners ARJ-21 and C919 operating and C929 widebody on the board

4) First construction of lucrative Cruise ships!

5) Fully domestic chip industry that can produce Kirin 9000S chips that allows Huawei to make the world class Mate 60 Pro!

6) Upcoming CJ1000A airliner engine

7) Dominant in Wind

8) Dominant in Solar

All of the above earn and produce actual wealth in China today. Not some hope-for-in-the-future you have as India's answer for everything

China has all these new drivers to build on a big lead. You can only talk about some future where you hope the West gives you stuff for being a "good citizen."

 

[rockdog]

Well you are the one bringing up India in a Chinese economic thread where you always need to talk about the "future"

These are just some of the new ACTUAL economic drivers in China today:

1) Dominant in EVs

2) Recently became #1 auto exporter!! (Not just EV exports but ICE too!

3) Airliners ARJ-21 and C919 operating and C929 widebody on the board

4) First construction of lucrative Cruise ships!

5) Fully domestic chip industry that can produce Kirin 9000S chips that allows Huawei to make the world class Mate 60 Pro!

6) Upcoming CJ1000A airliner engine

7) Dominant in Wind

8) Dominant in Solar

All of the above earn and produce actual wealth in China today. Not some hope-for-in-the-future you have as India's answer for everything

China has all these new drivers to build on a big lead. You can only talk about some future where you hope the West gives you stuff for being a "good citizen."

High profit means more employment for the whole supply chain.

10M Mate 60 pro would hire much more R&D people in China, as we know that most R&D of Apple happened in California.

 

[Azaad]

Well you are the one bringing up India in a Chinese economic thread where you always need to talk about the "future" 

Point out one instance where I've brought up India in this thread & I'd point out 10 instances where you've consciously brought up India in this very thread in spite of pointing it out to you.

Further, I'm pointing out to the present as far as India's concerned for the base that you've created 10-20 yrs ago is what helped you achieve scale today which is precisely where we are today depending on the sector in question.

These are just some of the new ACTUAL economic drivers in China today:

1) Dominant in EVs

2) Recently became #1 auto exporter!! (Not just EV exports but ICE too!

3) Airliners ARJ-21 and C919 operating and C929 widebody on the board

4) First construction of lucrative Cruise ships!

5) Fully domestic chip industry that can produce Kirin 9000S chips that allows Huawei to make the world class Mate 60 Pro!

6) Upcoming CJ1000A airliner engine

7) Dominant in Wind

8) Dominant in Solar

All of the above earn and produce actual wealth in China today. Not some hope-for-in-the-future you have as India's answer for everything 

All the above earn China actual wealth today is the key word . Enjoy your today as your own current leadership has very different notions about what prosperity means .

China has all these new drivers to build on a big lead. You can only talk about some future where you hope the West gives you stuff for being a "good citizen."

I've pointed this out plenty of times in the past but here we go once more.The way I see it, there's nothing innovative in what you've built in all the sectors you've named above except scale & in some cases like EV first movers advantage & in others like Solar & Wind power, western myopia lethargy & apathy which saw you run away with the prize ruining their industries.

If you think they're about to repeat the same mistake with EVs, explain the EU's charges & subsequent investigation into China's subsidies for their EV industry which is distorting competition & China's angry response in vehemently rejecting these charges.

Of course this is in addition to the various charges of industrial espionage China's been subjecting the West to on a massive scale. That's your modus operandi & you're entitled to your views & methods just as we're entiled to do what we think is in our best interests.

Further , I'm merely pointing out to second order effects where in the West believes India should be propped up to contain China to the extent possible & rendering whatever technology they think they can provide to help us & them achieve their objective. We've China to thank for this especially Great Helmsman 2.0 for up until 2020 we didn't share a friendly relationship but neither did we see each other as enemies or at least India didn't. 2020 changed all that.

As I've pointed out innumerable times before you seem to think this is a 100 mtrs dash & that if you've achieved the peak you will remain there for eternity. I've been arguing this is a marathon. You can maintain your lead for most of the race which doesn't translate to you winning the race irrespective of the advantage you may enjoy for the present.

For perspective Portugal, Spain & Netherlands were the pioneers in colonialism. UK & France were very late entrants into the game yet by the early 1800s both Portugal & Spain were spent forces with all the wealth they'd accumulated from their colonies having evaporated whereas UK & France, laggards in the same project rapidly expanded their empires between 1800-1900 becoming Lord & masters of most of Asia & Africa.

To end with, pls also list the subsidies you're shelling out / have shelled out to all these industries & since you're so fond of constantly pointing out how you think all our hopes are pinned in the future, I find it amusing you've listed the Huawei phones which is banned from using Android which is the most popular OS the world over followed by the Apple OS as " your key economic driver set to earn you tons of money" apart from the Kirin 7 nm SMC powering them which was always predicted to happen while market leaders like Samsung & TSMC are coming out with 1 nm by 2025 . That's apart from the "upcoming" CJ-1000 A airliner engine.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Point out one instance where I've brought up India in this thread & I'd point out 10 instances where you've consciously brought up India in this very thread in spite of pointing it out to you.

If I want to post about India I would go to the Indian threads I never go there

So every time I post about India here is response to the you and the other Indians bringing up India in a Chinese economic thread.

The way I see it, there's nothing innovative in what you've built in all the sectors you've named above except scale & in some cases like EV first movers advantage & in others like Solar & Wind power, western myopia lethargy & apathy which saw you run away with the prize ruining their industries.

I think you have no idea what innovation or why or how it is important to industry. China cannot compete in those sectors if it is not innovative.

But if you think China can do this without "innovation" then your idea of "innovation" is pretty irrelevant in the real world:

 

[Azaad]

If I want to post about India I would go to the Indian threads I never go there 

You never go there is because you'd be kicked thoroughly out there

So every time I post about India here is response to the you and the other Indians bringing up India in a Chinese economic thread.

In case Baidu translate faltered or you couldn't comprehend what I've posted before, I asked you to point out when & where did I bring India ever into this thread.

I think you have no idea what innovation or why or how it is important to industry. China cannot compete in those sectors if it is not innovative.

On the contrary I think you're under the impression copying & reverse engineering is innovation. To simplify what I'm saying in purely retarded terms, did China invent modern solar panels or Wind turbine engines or EVs or even civilian airliner TFs or SMC. Do you want me to go on?

But if you think China can do this without "innovation" then your idea of "innovation" is pretty irrelevant in the real world:

View attachment 227884

Congratulations, this must be the 10th time you've posted the same graphic & every time you've done it , it was pointed out to you that HK & China indulge in large quantities of export among themselves which is also included here . Now point out what among those hi tech products you export, is something China's invented.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Now point out what among those hi tech products you export, is something China's invented.

China invented the compass, gunpowder and paper but the Europeans became wealthy and took over the world with those inventions

China is 11th on the Innovation Index:

You cannot compete at this level of high tech exports without being innovative

So either you don't understand what innovation is or your idea of the importance of so-called original "invention" is deluded and does not matter.

China exports high tech above the level of developed nations never mind the Global South and had improved its economy and the lives of its people many folds that of India. So you want to "invent" something before you can enter high tech exports? Good luck

 

[Azaad]

China invented the compass, gunpowder and paper but the Europeans became wealthy and took over the world with those inventions

In that way , India invented zero , plastic surgery , algebra , calculus , trigonometry etc but the Europeans became wealthy & took over the world with their inventions . Are we discussing the present or past history ?

China is 11th on the Innovation Index:
View attachment 227886

11th according to whom ? One of your MSS sponsored sell out institutes in the west ? Let me simplify my previous question about the inventions of China in high tech goods in terms even dummies would easily understand & even a Chinese product like Baidu translate can't screw up .

What exactly has China invented in the past 30 years ? List them here instead of some dumb infomercial that you pick up from the MSS meme bank which you dutifully paste here & something which gives you & weibo users orgasms.

Have you invented EVs , Solar panels , Wind turbines , cruise ship building , civil airliner TFs , SMC , advanced lithographic machines , N reactors , etc ? Or were these all invented in the west with initial production lines set up there before moving them lock stock & barrel to China where all you did was take advantage of the coercive agreements these western OEMs had with the CCP to go in with a local partner where all you did was steal technology wherever possible or reverse engineer those products to get an insight into them & then launch your own product line claiming them to be indigenous whereas the only thing indigenous was the sheer scale of production eventually which is about the only innovation you can claim credit for.

You cannot compete at this level of high tech exports without being innovative

Yes you can which is why you're known as the sweatshop of the world not the innovation centre of the world rather the biggest copycat & fraud of the world . That in a way is also innovative . How many countries can boast of a reputation like that ?

So either you don't understand what innovation is or your idea of the importance of so-called original "invention" is deluded and does not matter.

I could say the same for you for you've persistently & consistently avoided the question about what exactly have you invented in the past 30 yrs .

China exports high tech above the level of developed nations never mind the Global South and had improved its economy and the lives of its people many folds that of India. So you want to "invent" something before you can enter high tech exports? Good luck

That's because of westen greed & short sightedness that they created a Frankenstein like China which is now challenging the west & their world order . If you don't invent something you're merely a production house / sweat shop not an innovation centre .

The same CCP which is responsible for improving the lives of its people many fold that of India & exports more than the developed nations was also once upon a time responsible for anywhere between 50-100 million deaths courtesy the great purges following the civil war , the 5 pests campaign , the great leap forward , the cultural revolution etc .

The best part is there's a great helmsman 2.0 in charge now resembling great helmsman 1.0 responsible for all those millions of deaths , in that he's the sole decision maker having seized power doing away with consultative & consensus building that was a hallmark of the Deng era & that of all his successors except great helmsman 2.0 . Good luck !