China Economy: News & Discussion

[ym888]

that actually is a good idea. Sort of similar to driving on right vs left and altering electrical outlets. Protectionism leading to jobs by using different energy sources and storage methods.

The Japanese can live with their new Indian allies. They both can enjoy riding around on Japanese HSR in Japan and on hydrogen buses in India. Japanese girl on Youtube said she loved India and Indians.
Chinese can live with their new Pakistani and African allies. They can ride around in EV cars in the poor nations (will need to build working electrical grids) and HSR in China.

Jobs and industry for everyone.

Japan automakers race to catch up with global EV competitors

A worker cleans a Toyota Electric Vehicle bZ4X on display during the Gaikindo Indonesia International Auto Show in Tangerang, near Jakarta, Indonesia, last week. | REUTERS
JIJI
SHARE
Aug 17, 2023

Major Japanese automakers are stepping up efforts to accelerate the development of electric vehicles, in a bid to catch up in the global market.
There is a sense of crisis over a possible decline of the Japanese automobile industry if U.S., European and Chinese automakers continue to dominate the EV market.


Technological innovation in areas such as batteries is seen as key to raising the brand value of Japanese EVs to the level of Japanese gasoline-powered cars.
"We are firmly committed to making attractive EVs," Toyota President Koji Sato has said.
In April, Toyota announced a new target of releasing 10 EV models and selling 1.5 million units annually by 2026. The firm has also strengthened its organizational structure.
According to research firm Marklines Co., U.S.-based Tesla led the global EV industry in 2022, with sales of 1,268,000 units. China's BYD came in second, followed by other U.S., European and Chinese automakers.
The Toyota group, which includes Daihatsu Motor and Hino Motors, sold only 20,000 units, or a market share of just 0.3%.
With a full-fledged EV era looming as the world transitions to a carbon-free society, Toyota faces the urgent task of boosting its competitiveness through technological innovation in fields such as batteries.
Other Japanese automakers are also rising to the challenge. Honda Motor aims for all of its vehicles sold worldwide to be EVs and hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles by 2040. Subaru plans to offer eight EV models in the next five years and to start EV production in the United States.
Nissan Motor, which launched the world's first mass-produced EV, the Leaf, in 2010, will announce a new strategy this autumn.
At a news conference in July, Nissan President Makoto Uchida said that his company will "strengthen the product lineup and enhance competitiveness." The automaker also decided to invest up to €600 million in a new EV company founded by its French alliance partner, Renault SA.
Nonetheless, tapping into the U.S. and Chinese markets is seen to be difficult for Japanese carmakers.
To qualify for tax breaks in the United States, automakers must procure batteries locally in addition to manufacturing vehicles in the country.
In China, there is intense competition for technologies such as autonomous driving and voice recognition, in addition to the race for electrification.
As there are limits on in-house development of such technologies, foreign automakers are partnering with information technology and other companies.
"The speed of change is much faster than expected," a senior executive at a major Japanese automaker said.
"(Japanese automakers) can't compete by focusing only on fuel efficiency and durability," said Takaki Nakanishi, chief analyst at Nakanishi Research Institute. "They need to promote not only electrification but also digitalization and software development, and improve the commercial value of vehicles."

 

[vin bharat mahan]

chinese spend 1.4 billion dollar for asian game in Hangzhou according to their media....five days ago i watched final match of women cricket between india nd srilanka. the stadium they build is below average. no floodlights to play in night. even very less seats for audience. i know chinese dont play cricket, like hongkong. but they r 19 trillion dollar economy nd known for their infrastructure. atleast they should make decent level cricket stadium, if they r hosting asian games. even hockey stadium is also average quality. its feel like they only make those game stadium in good quality, in which they r good.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Are you a professional in the aviation industry?

In aviation history, and basic aerodynamics i am a well versed person

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Japan Tried to Build a Hydrogen Society. It Backfired Spectacularly.
Seemed like a good idea at the time.

BY DARREN ORFPUBLISHED: JAN 26, 2023
SAVE ARTICLE

Andriy Onufriyenko//Getty Images

• Japan has long been a leader in hydrogen energy and fuel cell technology.
• Companies like Toyota plan to build entire cities entirely powered by hydrogen.
• A new report from an environmental think-tank argues that Japan is investing in the wrong applications for hydrogen technology and the determine of its decarbonization efforts.

In the past couple decades, scientists and engineers have come up with lots of ways to rapidly decarbonize the planet—but some ideas are better than others.
Take, for instance, hydrogen. Thanks to the discovery of electrolysis, hydrogen’s been a known source of energy for centuries, but Japan became a frontrunner in that energy source in recent years because of its status as a resource-poor country. A steady supply of renewable energy isn’t just an important climate initiative, it’s a matter of national security.
However, Japan may have taken things a bit too far.
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In 2017, the country became the first in the world to adopt a national hydrogen plan, and companies like Toyota have committed to constructing futuristic cities powered by the technology. In 2021 alone, Japan spent around $800 million on investments into hydrogen power and fuel cells.
RELATED STORY

• Where Are the Hydrogen Cars We Were Promised?

But according to the Renewable Energy Institute (REI), a Japanese environmental think tank, this push to use hydrogen in every conceivable energy sector is actually doing more harm than good.
From the report:

Gray hydrogen is the most common form of hydrogen production, which uses the greenhouse gas methane.
The 20-page report doesn’t argue for hydrogen’s complete removal from the energy mix. In fact, REI argues that hydrogen is vital for industries where decarbonization is particularly tricky (think: aviation, shipping, and steelmaking). However, to use hydrogen in place of electrification via other renewable sources is a mistake, REI says.
The report continues:

The report identifies “bad idea applications” that have already gobbled up 70 percent of the country's hydrogen budget—things like hydrogen cars, refueling stations, and residential power systems. Adoption of this hydrogen technology has lagged far behind Japan’s estimations, and the report argues that fuel cell cars will hit just 1/40th of their sales target by 2030. This lopsided interest in hydrogen could also be harming the country’s solar panel adoption as the report notes Japan lags behind some European peers when it comes to building out its solar infrastructure.
REI punctures the often-reported facts about Japan’s utopian-esque hydrogen society. It’s unlikely the report will put a stop to megaprojects like Toyota’s “Woven City,” but those cities might not live in the green-energy future that they imagined.

So who is building the electrical grids needed for EV vehicles which are less than 10% of all vehicles in the west today? Is Hydrogen distribution more efficient or building additional grids?
‘All these articles you cited above are hit pieces on hydrogen economy. Nothing is balanced. Clearly shows that EV industry is in a bit of a panic mode.
At the end of the day, EV vehicles just make everything worse. No one is generating renewable energy that fast. China has actually increased its coal use polluting even more. Making your argument that EV will thrive because the world is moving to RNE real fast is a bad argument.
India, like Japan must see if Hydrogen actually works and if it does move fast on it. India already has a ton of natural gas vehicles and associated filling stations. Converting those to hydrogen should not be all that tough, as hydrogen comes from natural gas anyways.
‘The articles you quoted say Natural Gas may be polluting as well. This is a fart joke at best. Just a few years ago, CNG was the darling of the green energy world.
‘These articles are hit jobs but Indian government does not go by articles. Gujarat State is already going full steam ahead.

Gujarat clears 1.99 lakh hectare land for green hydrogen projects | Ahmedabad News - Times of India

Taking the lead in India's big leap towards green hydrogen manufacturing, the Gujarat cabinet approved the draft land allocation policy for green hydr

m.timesofindia.com

 

[rockdog]

China's hydrogen industry development on the "fast track" (expert interpretation)

Interviewed expert: Jia Weilei, vice president of Beijing Ecological Civilization Engineering Research Institute and researcher of Budapest Center for Long-term Sustainable Development

People's Daily Overseas Edition (10th edition, April 24, 2023)



Recently, the 2023 China International Clean Energy Expo and China International Hydrogen Energy and Fuel Cell Industry Exhibition was held. The picture shows the audience visiting the solution of green hydrogen production system.

Photo by Chen Xiaogen (People's Vision)



According to the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, China has positioned hydrogen energy as an important part of the national energy system. To this end, China issued the "Medium and Long-Term Plan for the development of Hydrogen energy Industry (2021-2035)", proposing that by 2025, the number of fuel cell vehicles using hydrogen energy will reach about 50,000, and the amount of hydrogen production from renewable energy will reach 100,000 to 200,000 tons/year, and will popularize hydrogen fuel cell vehicles in areas such as buses and logistics. China also proposed to promote international cooperation in the field of hydrogen energy and help the infrastructure construction of countries along the Belt and Road.



The Spanish "Abez newspaper" website reported that green hydrogen energy is getting more and more attention from the world's major economies, and China has joined this wave to seek to change the energy model and focus on the development of hydrogen energy.







Hydrogen energy is a secondary energy with great development prospects in the 21st century, because of its light weight, strong thermal conductivity, high heating value, clean and low-carbon, recyclable and other multiple characteristics, and it has great application potential in transportation, industry, construction and other fields.



China has made progress on many fronts in the field of hydrogen energy: First, hydrogen production capacity has steadily increased. At present, China's hydrogen production is about 33 million tons, of which about 12 million tons meet industrial hydrogen quality standards, and it is the world's largest hydrogen production country, which has great potential in hydrogen energy supply. Second, hydrogen technology continues to develop. China has initially mastered the main technologies and production processes of hydrogen energy preparation, storage and transportation, hydrogenation, fuel cells and system integration, and made breakthroughs in long-distance hydrogen transportation technology. Third, the application field of hydrogen energy is gradually expanding. China has achieved small-scale demonstration applications of fuel cell vehicles in some regions, becoming one of the countries that are internationally recognized as most likely to take the lead in realizing the industrialization of hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen vehicles. The number of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles reached 14,979, ranking third in the world. Fourth, the construction of hydrogen refueling stations is being rolled out. By the end of 2022, China has built 310 hydrogen refueling stations, ranking first in the world. Fifth, the hydrogen energy industry shows a trend of cluster development. The Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei region, the Yangtze River Delta and the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area have brought together more than 300 industrial enterprises above designated size across the entire industrial chain.



In recent years, China has focused on the layout of hydrogen energy industry, laying a good foundation for the further development of hydrogen energy technology and industrial chain. The "Opinions of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China and The State Council on Fully, Accurately and Comprehensively Implementing the New Development Concept and Doing a good job of carbon Peaking carbon neutrality" requires that the whole chain development of hydrogen energy "production, storage and transportation" be promoted as a whole. The "Action Plan for Carbon Peak before 2030" proposes to accelerate the research and development and demonstration application of hydrogen energy technology, and explore large-scale application in industry, transportation, construction and other fields. The "14th Five-Year Plan for Renewable Energy Development" proposes to carry out large-scale demonstration of renewable energy hydrogen production and promote green hydrogen replacement in key areas such as chemical industry, coal mining, and transportation. The Medium and Long-Term Plan for the Development of Hydrogen Energy Industry (2021-2035) clearly states that hydrogen energy is a key direction for the development of strategic emerging industries, and a new growth point for the construction of a green and low-carbon industrial system and industrial transformation and upgrading. In addition to a series of top-level designs, local governments have issued more than 70 related supporting policies to jointly build a comprehensive hydrogen energy development system covering scientific and technological innovation, application demonstration, infrastructure, industrial layout and other links.



There is broad space for global cooperation on green hydrogen energy, and China has always actively integrated into the global hydrogen energy industrial chain and supply chain, and strengthened open cooperation with other countries in technological innovation, green hydrogen energy trade, and standard rules. In recent years, the China Hydrogen Energy Alliance has actively carried out joint industrial research between China and Europe, promoted the construction of the "Belt and Road" green hydrogen trade corridor between China and Europe, and jointly promoted the green development of the China-Eu hydrogen energy industry. Not long ago, the National Energy Group also signed an expansion cooperation agreement with the French Electric Power Group, planning to jointly build a "scenery hydrogen storage" green energy synergic integration of the offshore integrated smart energy island demonstration project in Dongtai, Jiangsu province, with a total planned installed capacity of 1.5 million kilowatts, and will actively reach a specific cooperation and investment opportunity for third-party market renewable energy projects. In December 2022, the China Hydrogen Energy Alliance Research Institute, together with the Suzhou Municipal People's Government and a number of enterprises, initiated the establishment of the China-Eu Hydrogen energy Technology Innovation Center, focusing on the research, personnel training, equipment technology demonstration and incubation of the China-Eu hydrogen energy industry.



China Hydrogen Energy Alliance predicts that in 2026-2035, the output value of China's hydrogen energy industry will reach 5 trillion yuan. In the future, to guide the healthy and orderly development of the hydrogen energy industry, we should continue to make efforts in the following aspects: First, systematically build a system to support the high-quality development and innovation of the hydrogen energy industry, improve the level of key core technologies, strive to build industrial innovation support platforms, promote the construction of hydrogen energy professionals, and actively carry out international cooperation in hydrogen energy technology innovation; The second is to promote the construction of hydrogen energy infrastructure as a whole, rationally layout hydrogen production facilities, steadily build storage and transportation systems, and plan hydrogenation networks as a whole; Third, steadily promote diversified demonstration applications of hydrogen energy, orderly promote demonstration applications in the field of transportation, actively carry out demonstration applications in the field of energy storage, rationally layout multiple applications in the field of power generation, and gradually explore alternative applications in the industrial field; Fourth, accelerate the improvement of the hydrogen energy development policy and institutional guarantee system, establish and improve the hydrogen energy policy system, establish and improve the hydrogen energy industry standard system, and strengthen the safety supervision of the whole chain.

travelling in Xinjiang now, visited some incredible genergy farms during the road trip, will update in my road trip thread.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

travelling in Xinjiang now, visited some incredible genergy farms during the road trip, will update in my road trip thread.

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What is so “incredible “ about this? What is good though is China making renewable, non-polluting energy a higher part of its energy mix.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

chinese spend 1.4 billion dollar for asian game in Hangzhou according to their media....five days ago i watched final match of women cricket between india nd srilanka. the stadium they build is below average. no floodlights to play in night. even very less seats for audience. i know chinese dont play cricket, like hongkong. but they r 19 trillion dollar economy nd known for their infrastructure. atleast they should make decent level cricket stadium, if they r hosting asian games. even hockey stadium is also average quality. its feel like they only make those game stadium in good quality, in which they r good.

This is the same for us. We make decent cricket and hockey stadiums but look at athletic stadiums and swimming pools and cycling velodromes etc and we suck. In fact 50-60% of medals won by China is in swimming related events , wushu etc where we have no presence. This is the reason chinese medals tally looks huge as they have focused on these events. But they suck at team sports, athletics etc. I would say Asian Games is unbalanced with too many medals for swimming and wushu events. This is a scam.

 

[rockdog]

Japan automakers race to catch up with global EV competitors

A worker cleans a Toyota Electric Vehicle bZ4X on display during the Gaikindo Indonesia International Auto Show in Tangerang, near Jakarta, Indonesia, last week. | REUTERS
JIJI
SHARE
Aug 17, 2023

Major Japanese automakers are stepping up efforts to accelerate the development of electric vehicles, in a bid to catch up in the global market.
There is a sense of crisis over a possible decline of the Japanese automobile industry if U.S., European and Chinese automakers continue to dominate the EV market.


Technological innovation in areas such as batteries is seen as key to raising the brand value of Japanese EVs to the level of Japanese gasoline-powered cars.
"We are firmly committed to making attractive EVs," Toyota President Koji Sato has said.
In April, Toyota announced a new target of releasing 10 EV models and selling 1.5 million units annually by 2026. The firm has also strengthened its organizational structure.
According to research firm Marklines Co., U.S.-based Tesla led the global EV industry in 2022, with sales of 1,268,000 units. China's BYD came in second, followed by other U.S., European and Chinese automakers.
The Toyota group, which includes Daihatsu Motor and Hino Motors, sold only 20,000 units, or a market share of just 0.3%.
With a full-fledged EV era looming as the world transitions to a carbon-free society, Toyota faces the urgent task of boosting its competitiveness through technological innovation in fields such as batteries.
Other Japanese automakers are also rising to the challenge. Honda Motor aims for all of its vehicles sold worldwide to be EVs and hydrogen-powered fuel cell vehicles by 2040. Subaru plans to offer eight EV models in the next five years and to start EV production in the United States.
Nissan Motor, which launched the world's first mass-produced EV, the Leaf, in 2010, will announce a new strategy this autumn.
At a news conference in July, Nissan President Makoto Uchida said that his company will "strengthen the product lineup and enhance competitiveness." The automaker also decided to invest up to €600 million in a new EV company founded by its French alliance partner, Renault SA.
Nonetheless, tapping into the U.S. and Chinese markets is seen to be difficult for Japanese carmakers.
To qualify for tax breaks in the United States, automakers must procure batteries locally in addition to manufacturing vehicles in the country.
In China, there is intense competition for technologies such as autonomous driving and voice recognition, in addition to the race for electrification.
As there are limits on in-house development of such technologies, foreign automakers are partnering with information technology and other companies.
"The speed of change is much faster than expected," a senior executive at a major Japanese automaker said.
"(Japanese automakers) can't compete by focusing only on fuel efficiency and durability," said Takaki Nakanishi, chief analyst at Nakanishi Research Institute. "They need to promote not only electrification but also digitalization and software development, and improve the commercial value of vehicles."

travelling in Xinjiang now, visited some incredible genergy farms during the road trip, will update in my separated road trip thread.

I realized Xinjiang and Qinghai have countless salt lakes, and the big size SOE are building many Lithium facotries just nearby those lakes. The Lithium and potash can be easily obtained from them.


I think China has some hidden production capabilities on Lithium.It will be the key of our EV and genergy conservation industry.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

travelling in Xinjiang now, visited some incredible genergy farms during the road trip, will update in my separated road trip thread.

I realized Xinjiang and Qinghai have countless salt lakes, and the big size SOE are building many Lithium facotries just nearby those lakes. The Lithium and potash can be easily obtained from them.


I think China has some hidden production capabilities on Lithium.It will be the key of our EV and genergy conservation industry.

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Everything is hidden in china including lithium reserves.

 

[rockdog]

What is so “incredible “ about this? What is good though is China making renewable, non-polluting energy a higher part of its energy mix.

The light tower i have only seen the picture on internet before, but this time when ur eyes were shinned by them, u felt incredible.

In Xinjiang and Qinghai, many small towns are fully supported by new energy and conservation system like the hotel in Gobi desert i stayed.

It's in the middle of a 100,000km2 desert.

 

[Azaad]

The light tower i have only seen the picture on internet before, but this time when ur eyes were shinned by them, u felt incredible.

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In Xinjiang and Qinghai, many small towns are fully supported by new energy and conservation system like the hotel in Gobi desert i stayed.

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It's in the middle of a 100,000km2 desert.

Is it a ghost city or a re education camp run by MSS ? Besides what are you doing there ? Gone there for your yearly audits on behalf of the MSS ?

 

[rockdog]

Is it a ghost city or a re education camp run by MSS ? Besides what are you doing there ? Gone there for your yearly audits on behalf of the MSS ?

Forced labor camp

and forced labor Lithium field, peeple forced to use $300,000 G-wagon to mining.

Our mining work is monitored by DJI drones.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Forced labor camp

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and forced labor Lithium field, peeple forced to use $300,000 G-wagon to mining.

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Frankly, I don’t see any activity of a tourist place here. Looks empty and staged, much like ghost cities.
‘It is the story of boy who cried wolf. Once you fake things, even real things will get questioned. That is CCP’s own stupidity.
‘What are the co-ordinates of this place?

 

[rockdog]

Frankly, I don’t see any activity of a tourist place here. Looks empty and staged, much like ghost cities.
‘It is the story of boy who cried wolf. Once you fake things, even real things will get questioned. That is CCP’s own stupidity.
‘What are the co-ordinates of this place?

In Qinghai Xingjiang border.

Lonely Space（ Gobi ）wild luxury hotel,Golmud - Updated 2023 Prices | Trip.com

Find the best hotel at the best rate. Over 1,200,000 hotels in more than 200 regions. 24/7 Customer Service.

www.trip.com

Mangya, a lonely city in the desert, is left alone and independent, with the most magnificent scenery in the northwest, low-key and mysterious

https://inf.news/en/travel/74b0de1366a8d361bbafa85e36609174.html

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

In Qinghai Xingjiang border.

Lonely Space（ Gobi ）wild luxury hotel,Golmud - Updated 2023 Prices | Trip.com

Find the best hotel at the best rate. Over 1,200,000 hotels in more than 200 regions. 24/7 Customer Service.

www.trip.com

Mangya, a lonely city in the desert, is left alone and independent, with the most magnificent scenery in the northwest, low-key and mysterious

https://inf.news/en/travel/74b0de1366a8d361bbafa85e36609174.html

View attachment 224619

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Where are the people? Where are the rides? Desert treks? Looks deserted.
What are the reviews in international travel sites like Lonely Planet?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I think someone need to tear down or reduce the Shanghai tower in half. Looks ugly with poor occupancy rates. Why do you build all these fake towers? Other than simpleton rural people and paid vloggers, no one else is impressed.

 

[Azaad]

Forced labor camp

View attachment 224611
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and forced labor Lithium field, peeple forced to use $300,000 G-wagon to mining.

View attachment 224614

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View attachment 224616

Our mining work is monitored by DJI drones.

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So I guess it's a matter of time before CCP cordons off the area & displaces the people residing there offering them peanuts as compensation then moving on to commercially exploit the area & reduce it to the usual cesspool of pollution & toxicity CCP style.

Do post pictures of those events as well .

 

[rockdog]

Where are the people? Where are the rides? Desert treks? Looks deserted.

This is very remote place, in the heart of gobi desert, people need to drive 400km from any city.
So the hotel need to charge a lot.

I see around 100+ sedan and SUVs in the camp.

I took the picture during 7am, for better looking, so not many people in outdoor.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

This is very remote place, in the heart of gobi desert, people need to drive 400km from any city.
So the hotel need to charge a lot.

I see around 100+ sedan and SUVs in the camp.

I took the picture during 7am, for better looking, so not many people in outdoor.

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Here is a trip advisor entry for India’s Pangong Tso lake. You can see all the activities despite the place being remote. Can you show anything like this?

Pangong Tso - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos)

www.tripadvisor.com

 

[rockdog]

Here is a trip advisor entry for India’s Pangong Tso lake. You can see all the activities despite the place being remote. Can you show anything like this?

Pangong Tso - All You Need to Know BEFORE You Go (with Photos)

www.tripadvisor.com

I planned the Pangong Tso trip next yr, it's 4500m, i need to stay in Lhasa for 3 days to get rid of altitude stress since It's 3300m. It's very popular destination in autohome.com.cn community.