China Economy: News & Discussion

Anupu

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So, you spent $30 billion on beautifying hangzhou and the economic impact was like $1.5 billion. This when 25% of youth unemployment and 50% living less than $100 a month. Not to mention people eating from garbage cans and disgusting recycled gutter oil usage for cooking. With such “rich” cities, why are Chinese lining up outside the US consulates and many trying to cross illegally into the west?
But what is impressive here is not the show but the ability to raise money for building infrastructure with no fear about the financial returns. It is basically gambling with people’s money.
I don’t think any city in the world can match the top Chinese cities in outward glitz. The outward infrastructure is the best there is. Of course real infrastructure like sewers, fire fighting systems, construction quality, earthq proofing, flood proofing are simply non-existent.
India’s top cities urban outward infra cannot match even tier 2 Chinese cities infra even though India’s gdp is nearing $4 trillion. What I am interested is who is financing this gambling bet? Now that many projects have stalled and the collapse has started, where is CCP going to get its unlimited money to fund useless projects from?
To be fair Hangzhou is on the coast a region with concentration of people, and the chines I am sure can make good quality infrastructure. City planning and urban infrastructure they too seem to do a good job. That's not the issue, issue is the way in which they treat capital.

Sure, the bank might have lent for all this on easy rates. Cost of capital in china is always kept low by the government, but that also means that people who deposited the money in these banks don't get very high returns. Financial instruments are not very popular for savings. Not to mention that in china compensation for lands aquired for these projects is marginal.

This leads to people having lesser money in hands and lower consumption.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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To be fair Hangzhou is on the coast a region with concentration of people, and the chines I am sure can make good quality infrastructure. City planning and urban infrastructure they too seem to do a good job. That's not the issue, issue is the way in which they treat capital.

Sure, the bank might have lent for all this on easy rates. Cost of capital in china is always kept low by the government, but that also means that people who deposited the money in these banks don't get very high returns. Financial instruments are not very popular for savings. Not to mention that in china compensation for lands aquired for these projects is marginal.

This leads to people having lesser money in hands and lower consumption.
This is how I see it:

china = great urban infrastructure and transport but very poor citizens with all their savings and ability to earn and consume their own way taken away.
india = poor urban infrastructure due to low taxation and inability to raise city level financing (due to poor balance sheets of cities) but much more money in the hands of people driving robust consumption and the ability to make their own consumption choices.

the two economies are fundamentally different. But india must step up its urban infrastructure investments by 2-3 times to make cities livable. We cannot be so far behind Chinese cities.
 

Anupu

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:crying::rofl:

Dude, clam down, didn't ask u to write a thesis to express ur feeling about China.

Just a simple questionc if India host it, when would it meet the common standard?

Or u would just answer "i don't know", not that hard right?
Frankly, if it was upto me, we should avoid hosting Olympics, asiad, fifa World cup etc as long as possible. They are notoriously expensive (especially the last one) and often loss making. Much better to have IPL or cricket wc it makes money. But I am sure the government will try to host Olympics soon, it's a dick measuring contest afterall.
 

MiG-29SMT

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EU Warns China It Will Be ‘More Assertive’ on Fair Trade
(Bloomberg) -- The European Union’s chief trade negotiator warned China on Monday during his trip to the nation that the bloc will be more forceful in upholding fair competition and defending its interests.

“The lack of reciprocity and level playing field from China, coupled with wider geopolitical shifts, has forced Europe to become more assertive,” said Valdis Dombrovskis, an executive vice president at the European Commission, during a keynote address at Tsinghua University.

“The EU welcomes competition. It makes our companies stronger and more innovative. However, competition must be fair, and we will be more assertive in tackling unfairness.”
Dombrovskis’ trip coincides with efforts by the EU to strengthen the defensive trade measures at its disposal. The bloc earlier this month launched an anti-subsidy probe into Chinese electric vehicles, which it said was needed to protect jobs and supply chains at home as it claims China is unfairly flooding the market with cheap vehicles.

China’s Commerce Ministry has criticized that investigation as “a naked act of protectionism.” The EV issue is expected to feature on Dombrovskis’ agenda during his China trip.
Asked later Monday about claims the country had created a non-level playing field, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin called China a “law-based country.”
“China is not a source of risk, but a staunch force for preventing and diffusing risks,” Wang told reporters at a regular press briefing. “China is an important cooperation partner for the EU. To shut out China in the name of de-risking is to throw away opportunities for cooperation, stability and development.”
In addition to a Monday event with Premier He Lifeng, the EU trade chief is also holding bilateral meetings with counterparts, and meeting European business representatives both in Shanghai and Beijing.
Dombrovskis is expected to tell Beijing that concrete agreements are needed in an effort to reset the relationship, according to people familiar with the EU’s plans.
During his speech, Dombrovskis argued that the EU’s de-risking strategy is not protectionist. He added that the EU’s plans are country-agnostic.
“Our approach to economic security is proportionate and precise, and our action will be purely risk-based,” he said. “De-risking is therefore a strategy to maintain our openness, but not undermine it.”
The current talks may also be a stepping stone for a summit between President Xi Jinping and the EU’s Ursula von der Leyen later this year.
“We can choose a path toward mutually beneficial relations. One which is based on open, fair trade and investment, and working hand in hand on the great challenges of our time,” Dombrovskis said Monday.
“Or, we can choose a path that slowly moves us apart. Where the shared benefits we enjoyed in recent decades weaken, and fade. And as a result, where our people and economies face reduced opportunities.”
Ukraine Rift
Dombrovskis also cited challenges related to Russia’s war in Ukraine, saying that differences over the conflict could cause a rift between Brussels and Beijing.
“It’s very difficult for us to understand China’s stance on Russia’s war against Ukraine, as it breaches China’s own fundamental principles,” he said Monday, citing territorial integrity as a “key principle for China in international diplomacy.”
“Russia’s war is a blatant breach of this principle,” Dombrovskis added.
The EU has pressed Beijing to use its leverage to convince Moscow to end its aggression in Ukraine. European Council President Charles Michel called on China at this month’s United Nations Security Council gathering in New York to “join forces to persuade Russia to end this criminal war that is hurting so many.”
Dombrovskis on Monday noted other concerns for China because of the war, including those related to food safety and reputational risks.
“By increasing energy prices and driving inflation, the war is weakening the global economy,” he said, adding that it “directly effects China” because of its role as a manufacturing powerhouse.
Beijing’s position on the war is also “affecting the country’s image, not only with European consumers, but also businesses,” Dombrovskis said.
--With assistance from James Mayger and Richard Bravo.
 

vin bharat mahan

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1) China has only tenth of the external debt of the US

2) All of those countries on that list are developed nations. Again, poor countries cannot generate debt to build infrastructure or much of anything else for that matter. Debt is a privilege of the rich.

3) China's debt is to itself. You can always print money to pay yourself off.

4) Poor nations cannot print money to pay themselves to build things. They go into hyperinflation. This is why they are undeveloped.

5) China has the lowest inflation of any country on earth. In fact, the West have to make it sound like a bad thing and call it "deflation." China still has a lot of capacity to build things because of the low inflation.

China can build things on a scale that even the US cannot dream of because it is a massively wealthy economy that can build "ghost cities" and HSR with no issues ;)

Building this would have bankrupt the entire West thrice over ;)
View attachment 223844

But China built it :)
good luck to u nd ur flawed nd stupid economy model...keep increasing ur nd ur country loans. best of luck🤑🤑

images (1).jpeg
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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No matter how shiny the buildings and roads, I would never want to live under state capitalism. 80-90% of real estate development-the core driver of GDP growth - is all state funded. Private investment is very less. They took away all of the savings of their peasants and chucked them into overbuilt real estate. Everything looks great but behind this is all devastation of people’s social security and savings. The CCP gives pension for old age Chinese like $100 a month. Even the flood compensation was ridiculously low. The medical care and drug costs are way too high that 80% of peasants cannot afford it. Same for quality food and water, rail services, apartments etc. And yet they spend like $30 billion on Hangzhou infrastructure for show off. The peasants have no voice. It is like robbery. Keep giving me your land, money, organs so I can keep showing off to the world.
Behind the overbuilt infrastructure lies the snatching away of financial freedom of 80% of the proletariat and very shady financing practices by CCP SOEs with local government financing vehicles that are kept off the books so the peasants will never know how much debt these local municipalities are in.
What amazes me about the CCP is the ability to access unlimited amounts of money and spend it without any accountability. Wall Street Ponzi schemes pale in comparison to what the CCP has pulled off.
We need to learn the good parts of how to raise massive money but deploy it much more wisely than the CCP does.
 

ym888

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No matter how shiny the buildings and roads, I would never want to live under state capitalism. 80-90% of real estate development-the core driver of GDP growth - is all state funded. Private investment is very less. They took away all of the savings of their peasants and chucked them into overbuilt real estate. Everything looks great but behind this is all devastation of people’s social security and savings. The CCP gives pension for old age Chinese like $100 a month. Even the flood compensation was ridiculously low. The medical care and drug costs are way too high that 80% of peasants cannot afford it. Same for quality food and water, rail services, apartments etc. And yet they spend like $30 billion on Hangzhou infrastructure for show off. The peasants have no voice. It is like robbery. Keep giving me your land, money, organs so I can keep showing off to the world.
Behind the overbuilt infrastructure lies the snatching away of financial freedom of 80% of the proletariat and very shady financing practices by CCP SOEs with local government financing vehicles that are kept off the books so the peasants will never know how much debt these local municipalities are in.
What amazes me about the CCP is the ability to access unlimited amounts of money and spend it without any accountability. Wall Street Ponzi schemes pale in comparison to what the CCP has pulled off.
We need to learn the good parts of how to raise massive money but deploy it much more wisely than the CCP does.

 

rockdog

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EU Warns China It Will Be ‘More Assertive’ on Fair Trade
(Bloomberg) -- The European Union’s chief trade negotiator warned China on Monday during his trip to the nation that the bloc will be more forceful in upholding fair competition and defending its interests.

“The lack of reciprocity and level playing field from China, coupled with wider geopolitical shifts, has forced Europe to become more assertive,” said Valdis Dombrovskis, an executive vice president at the European Commission, during a keynote address at Tsinghua University.

“The EU welcomes competition. It makes our companies stronger and more innovative. However, competition must be fair, and we will be more assertive in tackling unfairness.”
Dombrovskis’ trip coincides with efforts by the EU to strengthen the defensive trade measures at its disposal. The bloc earlier this month launched an anti-subsidy probe into Chinese electric vehicles, which it said was needed to protect jobs and supply chains at home as it claims China is unfairly flooding the market with cheap vehicles.

China’s Commerce Ministry has criticized that investigation as “a naked act of protectionism.” The EV issue is expected to feature on Dombrovskis’ agenda during his China trip.
Asked later Monday about claims the country had created a non-level playing field, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin called China a “law-based country.”
“China is not a source of risk, but a staunch force for preventing and diffusing risks,” Wang told reporters at a regular press briefing. “China is an important cooperation partner for the EU. To shut out China in the name of de-risking is to throw away opportunities for cooperation, stability and development.”
In addition to a Monday event with Premier He Lifeng, the EU trade chief is also holding bilateral meetings with counterparts, and meeting European business representatives both in Shanghai and Beijing.
Dombrovskis is expected to tell Beijing that concrete agreements are needed in an effort to reset the relationship, according to people familiar with the EU’s plans.
During his speech, Dombrovskis argued that the EU’s de-risking strategy is not protectionist. He added that the EU’s plans are country-agnostic.
“Our approach to economic security is proportionate and precise, and our action will be purely risk-based,” he said. “De-risking is therefore a strategy to maintain our openness, but not undermine it.”
The current talks may also be a stepping stone for a summit between President Xi Jinping and the EU’s Ursula von der Leyen later this year.
“We can choose a path toward mutually beneficial relations. One which is based on open, fair trade and investment, and working hand in hand on the great challenges of our time,” Dombrovskis said Monday.
“Or, we can choose a path that slowly moves us apart. Where the shared benefits we enjoyed in recent decades weaken, and fade. And as a result, where our people and economies face reduced opportunities.”
Ukraine Rift
Dombrovskis also cited challenges related to Russia’s war in Ukraine, saying that differences over the conflict could cause a rift between Brussels and Beijing.
“It’s very difficult for us to understand China’s stance on Russia’s war against Ukraine, as it breaches China’s own fundamental principles,” he said Monday, citing territorial integrity as a “key principle for China in international diplomacy.”
“Russia’s war is a blatant breach of this principle,” Dombrovskis added.
The EU has pressed Beijing to use its leverage to convince Moscow to end its aggression in Ukraine. European Council President Charles Michel called on China at this month’s United Nations Security Council gathering in New York to “join forces to persuade Russia to end this criminal war that is hurting so many.”
Dombrovskis on Monday noted other concerns for China because of the war, including those related to food safety and reputational risks.
“By increasing energy prices and driving inflation, the war is weakening the global economy,” he said, adding that it “directly effects China” because of its role as a manufacturing powerhouse.
Beijing’s position on the war is also “affecting the country’s image, not only with European consumers, but also businesses,” Dombrovskis said.
--With assistance from James Mayger and Richard Bravo.
From this video, you can see how deep the intergrations between Germany and China on auto industry.

Thanks to VW, BWM, Benz's 20-40 yrs existence in China, the heads, the employees, already had 20 yrs of cooperations, lots of high level of German heads speak Chinese, so dose Germany langauge by Chinese engineers.

So no matter what's the result of the investigation of EU, China and Germany's cooperation won't be terminated, the other auto brands would be losers.

 
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RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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Indians have a lot of private savings I.e. social security in the form of gold. Even very poor Indians own gold. But China after stealing all the savings of the peasants is way behind in providing social security. This is why old people in China are scavenging food from trash cans. You simply do not see such things in India even in poverty hell holes like Bihar.

 

ym888

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Indians have a lot of private savings I.e. social security in the form of gold. Even very poor Indians own gold. But China after stealing all the savings of the peasants is way behind in providing social security. This is why old people in China are scavenging food from trash cans. You simply do not see such things in India even in poverty hell holes like Bihar.


You should Google poverty in India before you speak
 

rockdog

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Few yrs ago, i heard 90% of Indian working people are not working in formal jobs, the got the payment based on daily work.

I think this is why they have little pension system, still the result of weak manufactuers.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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You should Google poverty in India before you speak
Please india does not have poverty at this level anymore. Plus India’s poverty standards are higher - India defines extreme poverty per world bank standards at $1.99. The CCP devils declared extreme poverty threshold as $1.30 or even lower and declared China is extreme poverty free. A bunch of evil clowns trying to show off at the cost of extreme poverty of their peasants. That is all CCP is. Lol.
 

ym888

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Few yrs ago, i heard 90% of Indian working people are not working in formal jobs, the got the payment based on daily work.

I think this is why they have little pension system, still the result of weak manufactuers.
India also has a low employment rate for women
 

ym888

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CCP pays $10 per month - that is right TEN DOLLARS PER MONTH - as pension for old people. Let that sink in when spending billions on wasteful expenditure like the Hangzhou games.
In 2019, the average pension level of retirees across the country is 3,070 yuan, an increase of 5.53% over 2018. However, the proportion of pension adjustment for retirees in 2019 is 5%, which is higher than the proportion of pension adjustment in that year. In 2020, the average pension level of retirees across the country is 3,235 yuan. It is also an increase of 5.37% over 2019, and in 2020, the proportion of pension adjustment is still 5%, which is also a breakthrough in the proportion of pension adjustment.
 

RoaringTigerHiddenDragon

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In 2019, the average pension level of retirees across the country is 3,070 yuan, an increase of 5.53% over 2018. However, the proportion of pension adjustment for retirees in 2019 is 5%, which is higher than the proportion of pension adjustment in that year. In 2020, the average pension level of retirees across the country is 3,235 yuan. It is also an increase of 5.37% over 2019, and in 2020, the proportion of pension adjustment is still 5%, which is also a breakthrough in the proportion of pension adjustment.
That is probably salaried people pensions. We are talking about social security and pensions for the vast number of unemployed people. That is Ten Dollars per month. Why do you think that old man is crawling on a pavement drinking dirty water? I have never seen anything like that in India even in massively poor areas and urban slums.
 

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