China Economy: News & Discussion

[Vinash]

Don't fall for China's glitz. It hides the actual reality behind the facade.

 

[Azaad]

"Extractive" joint ventures? What does this even mean? China, and every other Global South country, has the right to extract technology for access to its market. It is how you go up the industrial ladder. It is that simple.

That's extractive JVs . That everybody indulges in it to the extent they can doesn't take away from the fact that they're extractive. You could term it as quid pro quo for the access granted to those western OEMs .

The industrial espionage is pretty much BS. You could accuse anyone of "espionage" but if the West is so weak in protecting its IP then the USSR would never had collapsed. It had a far larger spy network. China get most of its knowledge from JV and leveraging its market. Getting the Airbus line in Tianjin, the Tesla Gigafactory in Shanghai, the NVIDIA R&D and Microsoft AI research centers gained China far more knowledge than than a thousand years of "espionage" can ever achieve.

Madam , let's not even get into this subject. Forget the west , even Russia has had major misgivings with you regarding the reverse engineering of all their products. Your shenanigans in the west have been well documented especially in the Xu Yanjun case where the CCP till date hasn't commented on the issue or his conviction & if they have it's certainly not highlighted in the public domain.

China did not get to be the factory of the world just the West lets it because its wages are many times that of India and other Global South countries. Its industries made many local innovations to improve efficiencies that allowed China to increase its global market share at the same its wages were growing exponentially.

Once the global supply chains are established it goes without saying that the advantage shifts from the OEM to the vendors especially if the product is a complex one which in turn entails difficulty in shifting those supply chains or recreating a similar ecosystem somewhere else.
Yet it is happening & it's happening by divorcing China from such global supply chains .

As I've pointed out innumerable times the only "innovation" China indulged in is creating scale . Even after 2 decades of being the principal mfg base for Apple iPhones if you've just managed to increase China's share of the supply chain size to ~25% that too only in 2019 speaks volumes to what your contribution has been which is that of wage arbitrage.

Incidentally within less than 3 years of Foxconn contract mfg the iPhones in India we're already contributing ~10% in terms of value from local supply chains. So if it comes down to relocation of such supply chains it can be done except it will be done in a phased manner given the complexity involved in the transition & it requires time . Apple is doing both . And given the stakes involved in China if Apple has already started implementing its China + 1 or China + 2 or 3 policy , the writing is on the wall for other OEMs & China too. These are the plain facts , however you choose to spin it .

Yes, the world is deglobalizing and it is automating. There will be a lot of smaller manufacturing nations like Vietnam and Mexico and China is already there exporting components

The REAL MONEY is in the west & a select few other geographies. If the west has decided to decouple with China why would it want to patronize products from proxies like Vietnam , Mexico etc if it's merely going to be rebadged Chinese products.

Because in a fractured world, the largest industrial power with the most integrated supply chain will have economy of scale and efficiencies that no other smaller fractured region will have. The largest industrial country by far is China. Countries using Chinese components will have a huge advantage to those who don't.

That's precisely what the west is determined to break up . You need to read up more on the anti trust legislations first enacted under President Teddy Roosevelt & how they went about systematically dismantling monopolies of those "robber barons" in the US to get a better understanding of what they intend to do here. The parallels are striking except this is a completely different ball game on a global scale.

Again, you just have to look at the solar industry. All of the countries supplying the US use Chinese production machinery and parts. You can't ban everyone.

You seem to think this is a 100 mtr sprint & not the marathon it actually is. There was a world before China emerged as the factory of the world & there'd be a world after China ceases to be the factory of the world unless it's your contention that this is going to be timeless & go on & on.

 

[Azaad]

View attachment 213083

Yup . A century from now when the counter revolution against great helmsman 2.0 is analysed , near 100% literacy rates combined with no growth in jobs , falling salaries , multiple scams like Evergrande which defrauded the public , heavy handed ness during the Wuhan virus , big brother attitudes reflected in social credit ratings , etc which would have sparked off the counter revolution , would be cited as key factors in those studies.

Which is why whenever China establishes a monopoly like in the solar or wind power generation industry or EVs or achievements like 100% literacy or the fact that China's filing for the most IPRs make news , believe me , I'm more thrilled than the ordinary Chinese.

It reassures me the west will be spooked & the west is always used to looting the yellow brown & black man never the other way around. When the opposite happens the reaction from the west would be pretty grim too. That's what I'm waiting for - the grim reaction.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

That's extractive JVs . That everybody indulges in it to the extent they can doesn't take away from the fact that they're extractive. You could term it as quid pro quo for the access granted to those western OEMs .



Madam , let's not even get into this subject. Forget the west , even Russia has had major misgivings with you regarding the reverse engineering of all their products. Your shenanigans in the west have been well documented especially in the Xu Yanjun case where the CCP till date hasn't commented on the issue or his conviction & if they have it's certainly not highlighted in the public domain.




Once the global supply chains are established it goes without saying that the advantage shifts from the OEM to the vendors especially if the product is a complex one which in turn entails difficulty in shifting those supply chains or recreating a similar ecosystem somewhere else.
Yet it is happening & it's happening by divorcing China from such global supply chains .

As I've pointed out innumerable times the only "innovation" China indulged in is creating scale . Even after 2 decades of being the principal mfg base for Apple iPhones if you've just managed to increase China's share of the supply chain size to ~25% that too only in 2019 speaks volumes to what your contribution has been which is that of wage arbitrage.

Incidentally within less than 3 years of Foxconn contract mfg the iPhones in India we're already contributing ~10% in terms of value from local supply chains. So if it comes down to relocation of such supply chains it can be done except it will be done in a phased manner given the complexity involved in the transition & it requires time . Apple is doing both . And given the stakes involved in China if Apple has already started implementing its China + 1 or China + 2 or 3 policy , the writing is on the wall for other OEMs & China too. These are the plain facts , however you choose to spin it .



The REAL MONEY is in the west & a select few other geographies. If the west has decided to decouple with China why would it want to patronize products from proxies like Vietnam , Mexico etc if it's merely going to be rebadged Chinese products.



That's precisely what the west is determined to break up . You need to read up more on the anti trust legislations first enacted under President Teddy Roosevelt & how they went about systematically dismantling monopolies of those "robber barons" in the US to get a better understanding of what they intend to do here. The parallels are striking except this is a completely different ball game on a global scale.



You seem to think this is a 100 mtr sprint & not the marathon it actually is. There was a world before China emerged as the factory of the world & there'd be a world after China ceases to be the factory of the world unless it's your contention that this is going to be timeless & go on & on.

There was a world before the West became ascendant too and the world will go on after the West sets as well

Every reality impacts what follows. Nothing is ever the same. That is why you need to change with the time and gain competency in the future. HSR to Solar to EV to Space travel

 

[Azaad]

There was a world before the West became ascendant too and the world will go on after the West sets as well

Every reality impacts what follows. Nothing is ever the same. That is why you need to change with the time and gain competency in the future. HSR to Solar to EV to Space travel

Agreed and the only spoiler to all this is war under the pretext of getting back lost territories & gaining ones true place in the world order. A revanchist power & economic prosperity don't go hand in hand . It's never happened in human history & never will .

At the moment it's China which is a revanchist power . China faces no threat of armed invasion or claims on its territory by its neighbours . Can the same be said of China with respect to its neighbours ? In simple terms the answer is a big NO.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Sue the Economist then.

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View attachment 213046

who do you think you are going to lie?

Chinese requieres thousends of ideograms , Japanese is a very simplified Chinese, My son at 8 reads English and Spainish but he is not able to read Japanese used by adults do not be a such a liar.

Further more, My wife an adult, she can not read some specialized texts simple she does not know the ideograms, I am sure youy can not read many ideograms, so I do not care about your table, Chinese read a very few ideogrmas vast majority of them forget the ideogrmas and can not write them well without a computer

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

A boom in wind and solar energy in China may curb emissions faster than expected, a report says.

www.bbc.com

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Beijing-based Foton says it plans to build a second manufacturing plant in Mexico, allowing it to produce electric vehicles in the country.

mexiconewsdaily.com

If your catels want to fight, hope they can kill each other under fresh air.

DO you understand what is EV technology?

If the electricity used on the EV comes from a polluting sources, your EV still pollutes, if the EV uses polluting energy when you build it it still pollutes.

Problem with wind and solar technology is intermitent it means sometimes it works some times it does not, what did did. well China make more coal plants, is that ecological tell me?

SINGAPORE, March 23 (Reuters) - China's plans for some 100 new coal-fired power plants to back up wind and solar capacity have sparked warnings that the world's second-biggest economy is likely to end up lumbered with even more loss-making power assets.

Analysts question the logic of policies that intend to reduce the role of the dirtiest fossil fuel but at the same time require more coal-fired power plants to be built - especially given that only a small number of older plants are typically retired each year.

China's new coal plants set to become a costly second fiddle to renewables

China's plans for some 100 new coal-fired power plants to back up wind and solar capacity have sparked warnings that the world's second-biggest economy is likely to end up lumbered with even more loss-making power assets.

www.reuters.com

No technology is free of pollution

To give you data 66 % of the electricity in China comes from Coal, so the EV will pollute.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

A boom in wind and solar energy in China may curb emissions faster than expected, a report says.

www.bbc.com

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Beijing-based Foton says it plans to build a second manufacturing plant in Mexico, allowing it to produce electric vehicles in the country.

mexiconewsdaily.com

If your catels want to fight, hope they can kill each other under fresh air.

 

[Azaad]

Twin Blow To China's Semiconductor Ambition As Netherlands Unveils Export Curbs On ASML Chip Tool And U.S. Seeks To Restrict Flow of Nvidia AI Chips

In a twin blow to China's expansive semiconductor ambition, the Netherlands government has imposed further restrictions on shipments of ASML’s chip-making equipment and the U

swarajyamag.com

 

[Azaad]

https://indianexpress.com/article/cities/ahmedabad/gift-city-first-major-expansion-8699642/

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

Climate change: China's green power surge offers hope on warming

A boom in wind and solar energy in China may curb emissions faster than expected, a report says.

www.bbc.com

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Chinese truckmaker to build EV manufacturing plant in Mexico

Beijing-based Foton says it plans to build a second manufacturing plant in Mexico, allowing it to produce electric vehicles in the country.

mexiconewsdaily.com

If your catels want to fight, hope they can kill each other under fresh air.

EV buses are not panacea but tell me what benefit us buy Chinese electric cars when we have our own


DINA and MegaFlux develop electric bus
CDMX will be the first entity to have them

DINA Camiones and MegaFlux jointly develop an electric bus for urban service. It will have the capacity to carry 40 passengers.

“We encapsulate the most expensive part, which is the powertrain. Derived from this construction, we linked up with DINA. Together we are designing a bus line to meet the needs of the country's cities”, mentioned Roberto Gottfried Blackmore, CEO of MegaFlux.

Miguel Ángel Velasco, general director of DINA Camiones, stressed that electromobility will be the value chain that structures economies in the future.

The Ministry of Economic Development was in charge of making the link between the two companies and supporting the business plan.

From Iztapalapa to the world
Roberto Gottfried noted that MegaFlux offers three powertrains. One of 100 volts that moves vehicles of up to three tons. Another 400 volts for vehicles up to 10 tons and another 800 volts for units from 12 to 18 tons.

"In this case, with our powertrains we can convert any DINA truck or bus to electric."

The MegaFlux production plant is located in Iztapalapa and currently produces the motor, harness, design and assembly of the batteries for an electric truck for Grupo Modelo.

DINA y MegaFlux en autobús eléctrico - Revista Alianza Flotillera

DINA Camiones y MegaFlux desarrollan en conjunto un autobús eléctrico para el servicio urbano. Tendrá capacidad para trasladar 40 pasajeros.

alianzaflotillera.com

 

[rockdog]

India’s literacy is improving annually, while your population is collapsing. Time is on India’s side my friend

And the question is:

Can India educate its vast workforce?

Poor schools put the economic boom at risk

www.economist.com

 

[rockdog]

View attachment 213133

EV buses are not panacea but tell me what benefit us buy Chinese electric cars when we have our own


DINA and MegaFlux develop electric bus
CDMX will be the first entity to have them

DINA Camiones and MegaFlux jointly develop an electric bus for urban service. It will have the capacity to carry 40 passengers.

“We encapsulate the most expensive part, which is the powertrain. Derived from this construction, we linked up with DINA. Together we are designing a bus line to meet the needs of the country's cities”, mentioned Roberto Gottfried Blackmore, CEO of MegaFlux.

Miguel Ángel Velasco, general director of DINA Camiones, stressed that electromobility will be the value chain that structures economies in the future.

The Ministry of Economic Development was in charge of making the link between the two companies and supporting the business plan.

From Iztapalapa to the world
Roberto Gottfried noted that MegaFlux offers three powertrains. One of 100 volts that moves vehicles of up to three tons. Another 400 volts for vehicles up to 10 tons and another 800 volts for units from 12 to 18 tons.

"In this case, with our powertrains we can convert any DINA truck or bus to electric."

The MegaFlux production plant is located in Iztapalapa and currently produces the motor, harness, design and assembly of the batteries for an electric truck for Grupo Modelo.

DINA y MegaFlux en autobús eléctrico - Revista Alianza Flotillera

DINA Camiones y MegaFlux desarrollan en conjunto un autobús eléctrico para el servicio urbano. Tendrá capacidad para trasladar 40 pasajeros.

alianzaflotillera.com

View attachment 213134

Try to sell it like in some US, top university?

 

[rockdog]

Don't fall for China's glitz. It hides the actual reality behind the facade.

Recent two Indian YTer in Chingqing, day time?

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Recent two Indian YTer in Chingqing, day time?

cheap crap propaganda youtube is banned in China

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Try to sell it like in some US, top university?

View attachment 213136

View attachment 213137

View attachment 213138

interflux has sold 44000 electric ststems in Mexico already, transforming regular cars to electric and works with Isuzu building a Mexican-Japanese project, to supply the electric engine and system.



It is one of the best trucks by performance price payload and cheaper than other models with a 300 trucks per year production, Isuzu is a better option for us than the chinese company

65% of the truck has mexican parts, the rest the chassis is japanese, the engine and electric system is Mexican

 

[srevster]

And the question is:

Can India educate its vast workforce?

Poor schools put the economic boom at risk

www.economist.com

please, don’t sermonize Indians about education

5 Forgotten Universities Of Ancient India | Indian Unravelled

Join us on a journey through time to explore the rich academic heritage that shaped the intellectual fabric of ancient India. In this video, we unearth five ...

youtube.com

India has the largest numbers of engineers as well as the largest number of engineering education institutes and infrastructure in the world. As of 2021, India annually produces fifteen lakh engineering graduates. India's technical education infrastructure includes 2500 engineering colleges, 1400 polytechnics and 200 schools of planning and architecture.

Of the hundred thousands engineering graduates produced every year, less than 5% of the engineers are produced by the pan-India national level autonomous institutes created by the acts of parliament, such as the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), National Institutes of Technology (NITs) and Indian Institutes of Information Technology (IIITs),a little over 5% are produced by state level autonomous institutes and unitary universities approved by UGC. The remaining over 90% of the engineering graduates are produced by the private and non-autonomous state level engineering education institutes which must obtain the approval from the regulatory authority All India Council for Technical Education (AICTE) to run such courses before they start admitting students.

Most common engineering branches in Undergraduate are Computer science and engineering, Electronics and Communication engineering, Electrical and electronic engineering, Mechanical engineering, Civil engineering and Chemical engineering.

for the uneducated, 15 lakhs = 1.5 million engineers per year

regarding total graduates per year

Degree	Holders
Total	37,670,147
Post-graduate degree other than technical degree	6,949,707
Graduate degree other than technical degree	25,666,044
Engineering and technology	2,588,405
Teaching	1,547,671
Medicine	768,964****
Agriculture and dairying	100,126
Veterinary	99,999
Other	22,588

 

[skywatcher]

who do you think you are going to lie?

Chinese requieres thousends of ideograms , Japanese is a very simplified Chinese, My son at 8 reads English and Spainish but he is not able to read Japanese used by adults do not be a such a liar.

Further more, My wife an adult, she can not read some specialized texts simple she does not know the ideograms, I am sure youy can not read many ideograms, so I do not care about your table, Chinese read a very few ideogrmas vast majority of them forget the ideogrmas and can not write them well without a computer

Common sense tells me Chinese and Japanese are two completely different languages. The Japanese grammar is more similar to Korean.

 

[MiG-29SMT]

Common sense tells me Chinese and Japanese are two completely different languages. The Japanese grammar is more similar to Korean.

the ideograms are the same. just modified but chinese air force is written identical in both languages same police so do not lie

 

[ym888]

the ideograms are the same. just modified but chinese air force is written identical in both languages same police so do not lie

unlikeness



There are simplified Chinese and traditional Chinese



There are differences between Chinese mainland and Hong Kong and Taiwan