China Economy: News & Discussion

[SexyChineseLady]

HSR is expensive infrastructure too. Poor countries go bankrupt trying to build one line. So it is pretty much only widespread in wealthy nations. And China built three times more than all the other wealthy Western and Far East countries combined!

Americans will say they rather drive.

But China buys way more cars too!

You cannot have a smaller economy than the US or the EU and then go buy many times more cars and put up many times more high speed rail. It is impossible, you will run out of money.

 

[rockdog]

HSR is expensive infrastructure too. Poor countries go bankrupt trying to build one line. So it is pretty much only widespread in wealthy nations. And China built three times more than all the other wealthy Western and Far East countries combined!
View attachment 191883

Americans will say they rather drive.

But China buys way more cars too!
View attachment 191884

You cannot have a smaller economy than the US or the EU and then go buy many times more cars and put up many times more high speed rail. It is impossible, you will run out of money.

This is all you need to know about CCP’s fake gdp, just like their fake millionaires and fake vaccines.

Mercedes-Benz China Sales Figures

Car sales statistics for the Mercedes-Benz in the Chinese automotive market. We have broken out sales data by month and year and included interactive charts.

carsalesbase.com

Benz China sold around 600,000 units in 2021, i heard the average price was $75,000; I guess for India’s 4 million sold units, the average price won't be more than $20,000.

And Audi China sold 600,000, BMW China sold 600,000 units (Yes, they sold on similiar amount), Just 1.8 Million sold units from B-B-A would be 2 times value than India's whole automobile value (4 million unit).

And there are rest of 24 millions car sold in China, including other luxury brands (like Land Rover, Lexus) and expensive EVs ...

So the total value would be 10-12 times than India, now you know some bullshit like China only has 60% GDP as claimed (which means only 3 times of India), are buillshit anyway ...


Plus, China exported 3 million cars in 2022, the average price is $18,000; The total GDP of Chinese automobile industry is $1.6 Trillion. It's 10% of Chinese GDP, and already 50% of India's current GDP ($3.18 T)

 

[Cheepek]

Looks like Elon's love affair with China isn't going to last too long

 

[Cheepek]

 

[rockdog]

Looks like Elon's love affair with China isn't going to last too long


View attachment 191980

Tesla didn't release any now type for 18 months here, still the Model 3 & Model Y; and there are better EV brands in the market now.

 

[rockdog]

World Robotics 2022 Report shows China overtaking U.S. in robot density

StackPath

 

[SexyChineseLady]

World Robotics 2022 Report shows China overtaking U.S. in robot density

StackPath

It is not just the robots but the network needed to control the robots and the whole automated process. That is where 5G comes in.

In West, 5G is just more bandwidth for movies on cellphones.

In China, the real power of 5G is on the factory floor of new plants:

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Industrial 5G is pretty much all China right now. No one else is doing this sort of innovation at the manufacturing level!

 

[SexyChineseLady]

This is not only China's first supersized cruise ship but the first one built anywhere outside Europe!!! Traditionally these specialized behemoths were made only in France, Germany and Italy.

Not even Korea had built one of these before

South Korea is China's only global rival in shipbuilding but has not cracked into cruise ships yet:

Cruise ships, a conundrum for S. Korean shipyards

China’s shipbuilding industry is expanding into cruise ships, while South Korean shipyards are held back by lack of experience. Only July 7, China Daily reported that China State Shipbuilding (CSSR) and Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri Cantieri Navali Italiana will establish a joint venture in...

m.koreaherald.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

What will China do with an extra $2.6T in savings just from 2022?!

 

[KurtisBrian]

World Robotics 2022 Report shows China overtaking U.S. in robot density

StackPath

I saw a post saying India was going to invest $4 billion in Kashmir. Made me curious about China and Tibet. Do you know how much China has invested and is planning to invest in Tibet? google shows a wide range of figures.
If you know thanks. If not don't worry about it.

 

[rockdog]

I saw a post saying India was going to invest $4 billion in Kashmir. Made me curious about China and Tibet. Do you know how much China has invested and is planning to invest in Tibet? google shows a wide range of figures.
If you know thanks. If not don't worry about it.

It's quite small and we don't know how many years such $4 billion will be spent.

For Tibet government financial data, Chinese websites are pretty easy to check.

Tibet area is 1.2 million km2； population is 3.3-5 million. In 2021, Chinese central government transfered $38 billion (224.7 billions RMB) as financial subsidy (Payment Transfer) to Tibet, which means each Tibetan got $8000 financial support from central government during 2021.

I think it dosen't include military related infra. along the border, this part will be counted into military budget.

This table is about all financial subsidies from central government by provinces.

 

[rockdog]

What will China do with an extra $2.6T in savings just from 2022?!

That's the problem, people like to save money rahter than spending, need some stimulate packages.

 

[jai jaganath]

It's quite small and we don't know how many years such $4 billion will be spent.

For Tibet government financial data, Chinese websites are pretty easy to check.

Tibet area is 1.2 million km2； population is 3.3-5 million. In 2021, Chinese central government transfered $38 billion (224.7 billions RMB) as financial subsidy (Payment Transfer) to Tibet, which means each Tibetan got $8000 financial support from central government during 2021.

I think it dosen't include military related infra. along the border, this part will be counted into military budget.

This table is about all financial subsidies from central government by provinces.

View attachment 192311

4 billion in 1 year

 

[Blademaster]

That's the problem, people like to save money rahter than spending, need some stimulate packages.

You need to start paying off your debts. Your debts are getting out of control. Last I heard China's total debts is around 300% of its GDP.

China’s Overwhelming Debt Burden Points To Still Deeper Problems

Communist management and demographic imbalances are set to deepen China’s financial troubles.

www.forbes.com

 

[SexyChineseLady]

That's the problem, people like to save money rahter than spending, need some stimulate packages.

They could not spend in 2022 because of the Zero Covid lockdowns. They will in 2023 and have spent already in Chinese New Year in 2nd half of January.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

You need to start paying off your debts. Your debts are getting out of control. Last I heard China's total debts is around 300% of its GDP.

China’s Overwhelming Debt Burden Points To Still Deeper Problems

Communist management and demographic imbalances are set to deepen China’s financial troubles.

www.forbes.com

China has the least debt among major economies and its debts are mainly in Yuan not forex.

National Debt by Country / Countries with the Highest National Debt 2023

What countries have the largest debt in the world? Here is a list of the top ten countries with the most national debt:

1. Japan (National Debt: ¥1,028 trillion ($9.087 trillion USD))
2. Greece (National Debt: €332.6 billion ($379 billion US))
3. Portugal (National Debt: €232 billion ($264 billion US))
4. Italy (National Debt: €2.17 trillion ($2.48 trillion US))
5. Bhutan (National Debt: $2.33 billion (USD))
6. Cyprus (National Debt: €18.95 billion ($21.64 billion USD))
7. Belgium (National Debt: €399.5 billion ($456.18 billion USD))
8. United States of America (National Debt: $19.23 trillion (USD))
9. Spain (National Debt: €1.09 trillion ($1.24 USD))
10. Singapore (National Debt: $350 billion ($254 billion US))

China’s national debt is currently 54.44% of its GDP, a significant increase from 2014 when the national debt was at 41.54% of China’s GDP. China’s national debt is currently over ¥38 trillion (over $5 trillion USD). An International Monetary Fund report from 2015 stated that China’s debt is relatively low, and many economists have dismissed worries over the size of the debt both in its overall size and relative to China’s GDP. China currently has the world’s largest economy and the largest population of 1,415,045,928 people.

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Inflation in China is exceptionally low. The lowest in the world (and has been for decades) which results in the greatest real growth (growth rate minus inflation) among nations.

But more importantly in the case of debt, this allows the printing of Yuan to service China's mainly Yuan-dominated debt with little issue.

China's foreign debt $2.4T is lower than its forex reserves ($3.1T) and the trend is lowering debt plus a growing surplus in forex -- this should be the highest AAA rating where the borrower's assets are greater than the loan and has a growing income -- though Western rating agencies give China merely an A+ because it is developing. (They give India BBB- in comparison.)

China External Debt, 2003 – 2023 | CEIC Data

China External Debt reached 2,481.5 USD bn in Sep 2022, compared with 2,636.0 USD bn in the previous quarter. China External Debt: USD mn data is updated quarterly, available from Jun 2003 to Sep 2022.

www.ceicdata.com

China External Debt
2003 - 2022 | QUARTERLY | USD MN | CEIC DATA
Key information about China External Debt

• China External Debt reached 2,481.5 USD bn in Sep 2022, compared with 2,636.0 USD bn in the previous quarter.

Related information about China External Debt

• In the latest reports of China, Current Account recorded a surplus of 144.3 USD bn in Sep 2022.

 

[Blademaster]

Cherry picking data. You are only including government debt. I am talking about total debt.

Here's another article where it says China's debt is actually greater than 250% of its GDP. http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/CHINA-DEBT-HOUSEHOLD/010030H712Q/index.html

 

[SexyChineseLady]

Cherry picking data. You are only including government debt. I am talking about total debt.

Here's another article where it says China's debt is actually greater than 250% of its GDP. http://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/rngs/CHINA-DEBT-HOUSEHOLD/010030H712Q/index.html

Problem is always external debt. Internal debt, total whatever is not an issue. Look at Japan.

Westerners say it is an issue, Asians say no. Again look at Japan. Even among Westerners, the problem is not the amount of debt but the trend. Your article was from 2016. It's been eight years, that trend had not resulted in an issue even with Covid lockdowns and the real estate crisis

Yuan debt can be rolled over and paid by printing over time as long as inflation doesn't shoot up -- and inflation in China is exceptionally stable and low.

From your article:

China's debt problem
China’s debt has risen dramatically in the past decade, largely the result of credit fed to state-owned enterprises in the wake of the global financial crisis. To some, the debt mountain represents a threat to China’s stability and even the world’s economic health, while others argue such fears are overdone as most of the country’s debt is state owned and therefore, they say, manageable.

How bad is it?
China’s debt is more than 250 percent of GDP, higher than the United States. It remains lower than Japan, the world’s most indebted leading economy, but some experts say the concern is that China’s debt has surged at the sort of pace that usually leads to a financial bust and economic slump.