China Economy: News & Discussion

[Tshering22]

China is the largest trading on earth by a very wide margin. It is the largest market on earth than can sustain economy of scale even if it doesn't trade.

But it does trade

So who is not trading with China?

View attachment 176399

This is something I truly admire in the Chinese among all nationalities. You did not limit yourself to one market. You went and sold your products everywhere. This means that you have a market so big that it can easily sustain itself.

I hope that we learn to put aside our differences to deal with the NWO elites one day soon.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

This is something I truly admire in the Chinese among all nationalities. You did not limit yourself to one market. You went and sold your products everywhere. This means that you have a market so big that it can easily sustain itself.

I hope that we learn to put aside our differences to deal with the NWO elites one day soon.

The costs and risks of this global trade are increasing exponentially for the Chinese. They are simply unable to make money as they used to in global markets. In high value items, they lag behind several global brands and is some cases several Indian brands as well. It is now up to their domestic markets to sustain their growth. Export led growth is over for them as all major markets insist on localization for high value items.

 

[Tshering22]

The costs and risks of this global trade are increasing exponentially for the Chinese. They are simply unable to make money as they used to in global markets. In high value items, they lag behind several global brands and is some cases several Indian brands as well. It is now up to their domestic markets to sustain their growth. Export led growth is over for them as all major markets insist on localization for high value items.

I am talking about their ability to quickly produce stuff for any market. China can close itself off from a lot of the world and still sustain itself with reasonably strong local competition. That’s a major strength and reflects a strong industrial capability and robust supply chains.

China started off as an export oriented market but it now has a massive local market as well. Not to mention, the massively growing developing world. China can outcompete almost any western mass product today if they want - electronics being still a bit behind.

But the fact remains that they’re a force to be reckoned with and there’s no denying that.

 

[rockdog]

All these do not matter. If BMW wants to sell in India’s markets, they have to localize in India. Indian government did not allow Tesla to import vehicles from China. Same fate awaits BMW. It does not matter how big your internal market is - you won’t any longer be able to export to large global markets. That is the point. Factory floor robots is no big thing. Automobile robots have been present in Japan since the 1960s.

The key is not here, India market is not that attractive to most world luxury brands since the purchase power is relatively weak.

It's more and more world's big car makers take China as the bases to export their cars globally, not only because of cheap labor, mordern Auto industry dosen't need many workers, it's because China has the best EV industry supply chain.

Tesla make 40% of its car in Shanghai, this is done within 36 months. Simply speaking, Shanghai government created a 50 billion $USD GDP business from scratch in 3 years.

 

[rockdog]

The costs and risks of this global trade are increasing exponentially for the Chinese. They are simply unable to make money as they used to in global markets.

If talking about cost and risk, do you know why those companies moving to China? It's somehow because the Russia-Ukraine war and sky rocket energy pricing... For them China is the safe place, the capital is always smart ass.

In high value items, they lag behind several global brands and is some cases several Indian brands as well. It is now up to their domestic markets to sustain their growth. Export led growth is over for them as all major markets insist on localization for high value items.

EV sales on Sep, the high end are dominated by local brands, not Tesla.

Unit: 10K RMB, around 1.5K $USD.
*notice, the table is just for EV, the hybrid type is not included.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I am talking about their ability to quickly produce stuff for any market. China can close itself off from a lot of the world and still sustain itself with reasonably strong local competition. That’s a major strength and reflects a strong industrial capability and robust supply chains.

China started off as an export oriented market but it now has a massive local market as well. Not to mention, the massively growing developing world. China can outcompete almost any western mass product today if they want - electronics being still a bit behind.

But the fact remains that they’re a force to be reckoned with and there’s no denying that.

India will build those as well. Our logistics performance has developed by leaps and bounds. In a couple of years, India’s total exports (merchandise + services) will be close to $1 trillion dollars. That is not bad at all. That gives us massive economies of scale - not to mention the Chinese can never ever get the margins we get from the gigantic software exports. Manufacturing profits are like 1/3rd of services profits. India is the undisputed money maker in this area. Not to mention India has an edge over China in healthcare tourism, which is also a high margin service.
While China has a giant local market now, it is not at all clear how sustainable this market is as their banks are going bust and consumer credit is getting tightened due to the gigantic real estate bubble burst.
The only thing that could derail India is a return of commie/socialist parties, which is very much possible unfortunately. So, it is not like we are without risks as well. There are no global growth guarantees anymore like it used to be. And that applies to China’s internal markets as well.

 

[rockdog]

India will build those as well. Our logistics performance has developed by leaps and bounds. In a couple of years, India’s total exports (merchandise + services) will be close to $1 trillion dollars. That is not bad at all. That gives us massive economies of scale - not to mention the Chinese can never ever get the margins we get from the gigantic software exports. Manufacturing profits are like 1/3rd of services profits. India is the undisputed money maker in this area. Not to mention India has an edge over China in healthcare tourism, which is also a high margin service.
While China has a giant local market now, it is not at all clear how sustainable this market is as their banks are going bust and consumer credit is getting tightened due to the gigantic real estate bubble burst.
The only thing that could derail India is a return of commie/socialist parties, which is very much possible unfortunately. So, it is not like we are without risks as well. There are no global growth guarantees anymore like it used to be. And that applies to China’s internal markets as well.

Your conclusion is mix of news, arbitraries, inaccurate data, it's not based on any research framework, sorry i don't buy it, and i couldn't give any comment.

The recent artcile from authroitative media is worthy to read i think:

What Accounts for the Economic Gap Between China and India?

The world’s two most populous countries had similar starting points, but China has outpaced India across the board.

foreignpolicy.com

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

The key is not here, India market is not that attractive to most world luxury brands since the purchase power is relatively weak.

It's more and more world's big car makers take China as the bases to export their cars globally, not only because of cheap labor, mordern Auto industry dosen't need many workers, it's because China has the best EV industry supply chain.

Tesla make 40% of its car in Shanghai, this is done within 36 months. Simply speaking, Shanghai government created a 50 billion $USD GDP business from scratch in 3 years.

This is not going to happen, ever. Indian government will NOT allow imports from China period. BMW is going to learn this the hard way. On PPP, China is only 2 times that of India. Indian companies are getting mature now. Tata has its own EV tech, for example. And Korean companies are targeting sales of thousands of EVs locally produced in India. There is zero scope for imports from China.
Tesla is never going to get a license to import from China. Period. India’s markets are big enough now to apply pressure on all global manufacturers to make in India. This includes Chinese manufacturers. China + 1 strategy for global supply chain realignment is a reality now. There is nothing the CCP can do about it.
On China’s domestic markets, credit conditions in China are poor now. Not what it used to be. Significant tightening by banks means easy consumer credit is a thing of the past. We shall see how Tesla fares but they are going to get their tech stolen and post gigantic losses on their investment. The US government warned Tesla of the dangers of catering to China’s domestic markets. They did not listen. So what is coming Tesla’s way is totally on Musk.

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Your conclusion is mix of news, arbitraries, inaccurate data, it's not based on any research framework, sorry i don't buy it, and i couldn't give any comment.

The recent artcile from authroitative media is worthy to read i think:

What Accounts for the Economic Gap Between China and India?

The world’s two most populous countries had similar starting points, but China has outpaced India across the board.

foreignpolicy.com

India’s exports are $750 billion today. And is forecast to be $1 trillion by 2025. China+1 supply chain realignment is a reality. Deal with it. The target is to be at $2 trillion by 2030. I don’t buy China’s numbers at all. Gross exaggeration of gdp growth is something the ccp did for decades. Heck the CCP bribed the World Bank to give a favorable ease of doing business rating. When the WB was caught doing that, their entire EoDB research was shutdown and rankings ceased. The round tripping of FDI through Hong Kong is another well known CCP scam where most of stolen wealth by CCP members was laundered as FDI back into China via Hong Kong. there is established independent research for all this - not the fake, CCP paid for research circulating in China.
The reality is consumer credit conditions are bad in China , as reported by several banks, and therefore naturally the purchasing power has drastically reduced. And that limits the market for luxury goods. That is the economics.

 

[rockdog]

This is not going to happen, ever. Indian government will NOT allow imports from China period. BMW is going to learn this the hard way.

Not true.

BYD Atto 3 Electric SUV Launch in India Today: Design, Specs, & Expected Price

The BYD Atto 3 Electric SUV is set to launch in India today, 11 October 2022. Know the price and specification details of the upcoming car before the launch happens.

www.thequint.com

BYD India targets 15,000 EV sales in 2023, to expand portfolio & network

Pure play electric car maker BYD targeting a sales of 15,000 units next year is launching a new model, increasing its distribution network and expanding production capacity if needed

www.business-standard.com

On PPP, China is only 2 times that of India. Indian companies are getting mature now.

PPP doesn't present real gap, the Chinese auto sales is 6 times of Indian, same gap by GDP between CN and IN, the real GMV is 10 times by pricing.

Tata has its own EV tech, for example. And Korean companies are targeting sales of thousands of EVs locally produced in India. There is zero scope for imports from China.

Not true.

Tata Technologies collaborates with NIO China - Times of India

Auto News: Tata Technologies, a global engineering services provider, has announced a close association with NIO China, a leading new-generation electric car com

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

For Mahindra:

Mahindra ties up with Volkswagen, to get components for its upcoming EVs

Mahindra and Mahindra has unveiled as many as five electric vehicles on Monday, August 15, as part of its push for electrification. The first one of them will be introduced towards the end of this year.

auto.hindustantimes.com

... ...

I am curious why you always didn't get right news from cyber ...

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Not true.

BYD Atto 3 Electric SUV Launch in India Today: Design, Specs, & Expected Price

The BYD Atto 3 Electric SUV is set to launch in India today, 11 October 2022. Know the price and specification details of the upcoming car before the launch happens.

www.thequint.com

BYD India targets 15,000 EV sales in 2023, to expand portfolio & network

Pure play electric car maker BYD targeting a sales of 15,000 units next year is launching a new model, increasing its distribution network and expanding production capacity if needed

www.business-standard.com

PPP doesn't present real gap, the Chinese auto sales is 6 times of Indian, same gap by GDP between CN and IN, the real GMV is 10 times by pricing.



Not true.

Tata Technologies collaborates with NIO China - Times of India

Auto News: Tata Technologies, a global engineering services provider, has announced a close association with NIO China, a leading new-generation electric car com

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

For Mahindra:

Mahindra ties up with Volkswagen, to get components for its upcoming EVs

Mahindra and Mahindra has unveiled as many as five electric vehicles on Monday, August 15, as part of its push for electrification. The first one of them will be introduced towards the end of this year.

auto.hindustantimes.com

... ...

I am curious why you always didn't get right news from cyber ...

Are you an idiot or you think you can easily fool others?
BYD Auto must manufacture locally. No imports allowed. They invested $200 million locally in India. This is straight from the Reuters article: “BYD's India push comes amid tight scrutiny of investments from bordering nations, including China. Strict controls on such incoming investments forced Chinese carmaker Great Wall to shelve its $1 billion India entry plan.” India restricted the Great Wall nonsense from entering India. And that was to be a $1 billion investment. BYD’s entry is so, so late in the EV market in India which is heavily cornered by Tata and Korean manufacturers. Not to mention Suzuki is getting into the game.

Buffet-backed BYD taps India as latest market amid global push

Warren Buffet-backed Chinese electric carmaker BYD launched its first passenger car in India on Tuesday, an electric sport-utility vehicle (SUV), marking its entry into the mainstream market amid a broader global expansion.

www.reuters.com

Tata EV tech:
https://ev.tatamotors.com/technology/

Nothing to do with the NIO garbage or whatever.
This kind of massive lying is why no one relies on anything coming out of the CCP’s mouth.

You cannot fool Indians. Try doing that in failed African countries and rogue nations like Pakistan. Snake oil selling is not going to work in India. Chinese investments are under strict scrutiny in India. And it takes a long time for the Indian government to approve Chinese investment. Other countries have automatic approval for investments in India. Not China. Sorry.

No Chinese imports will be ever allowed. That is a strict policy by the Indian government. No amount of propaganda will change that.

 

[rockdog]

Atto 3 reveiws in India, NZ, Austrilia:

India:

New zealand

Austrilia

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

BYD Atto has zero chances of success in India. The market is already set. And Indian government will not offer EV rebates for Chinese manufacturers. Did you not see what the Indian government did to Chinese mobile manufacturer? The same fate awaits BYD Atto. Warren Buffet’s name might be the only thing that might cause the GoI to hesitate. Otherwise, there was zero chance for BYD to even get approval to invest in India. So thank Warren Buffet and not CCP’s disastrous India policies.

 

[rockdog]

Are you an idiot or you think you can easily fool others?
BYD Auto must manufacture locally. No imports allowed. They invested $200 million locally in India.

Dosen't matter, CKD or whole imported, CKD means 95% of parts are imported. BYD almost made everything in house, not many external suppliers, expecically blade battery. Maybe CKD makes both sides happy.

Nothing to do with the NIO garbage or whatever.

Then send your opinion to TATA, tell them they are not smart as you.

This kind of massive lying is why no one relies on anything coming out of the CCP’s mouth.

You cannot fool Indians. Try doing that in failed African countries and rogue nations like Pakistan. Snake oil selling is not going to work in India. Sorry.

I am lilltle bored like this, every time i pointed some news sources and data in the real world, i got personal insult.

 

[rockdog]

BYD Atto has zero chances of success in India. The market is already set. And Indian government will not offer EV rebates for Chinese manufacturers. Did you not see what the Indian government did to Chinese mobile manufacturer? The same fate awaits BYD Atto. Warren Buffet’s name might be the only thing that might cause the GoI to hesitate. Otherwise, there was zero chance for BYD to even get approval to invest in India. So thank Warren Buffet and not CCP’s disastrous India policies.

I think you can short BYD on stock market, if BYD will fail in India will have impact to its value，prove that you are smart than Buffet.

Just one small questoin, do you have a formal job?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

Dosen't matter, CKD or whole imported, CKD means 95% of parts are imported. BYD almost made everything in house, not many external suppliers, expecically blade battery. Maybe CKD makes both sides happy.



Then send your opinion to TATA, tell them they are not smart as you.




I am lilltle bored like this, every time i pointed some news resources and data in the real world, i got personal insult.

There is no ckd and all that. Chinese investments are not allowed in India unless you can show strict localization, that is 60% or more of components by value must be manufactured locally. Even then Chinese investments have to clear security and a host of other regulations. This is a legal, published Indian government policy. What part of Indian law do you not get? Or do you want BYD to get kicked out just like what happened to the fraudulent Chinese mobile manufacturers?

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

I think you can short BYD on stock market, if BYD will fail in India will have impact to its value，prove that you are smart than Buffet.

Just one small questoin, do you have a formal job?

I have shorted the entire Chinese ETF index actually. Given how much the Shanghai stock exchange tanked, the investment would have made decent money. Warren Buffett does not understand that the Indian government is going to do all it can to not provide a level playing field in India. Elon Musk thought he can access india from China and got shot down completely. Either that or he doesn’t care about BYD’s chances in India. Indian law does not allow Chinese companies to import kits into India. Period.

 

[rockdog]

There is no ckd and all that.

The SUV will come to India as a CKD unit and will be assembled at the carmaker’s Sriperumbudur facility near Chennai.

from:

BYD Atto 3 unveiled in Indian market

Chinese automaker BYD (Build Your Dreams) has unveiled the Atto 3 EV SUV in the Indian market. While

www.thehindu.com

？？

 

[RoaringTigerHiddenDragon]

from:

BYD Atto 3 unveiled in Indian market

Chinese automaker BYD (Build Your Dreams) has unveiled the Atto 3 EV SUV in the Indian market. While

www.thehindu.com

？？

These are for small introductory test volumes. And you have to pay import duty to the government making the whole thing inefficient. Tesla refused to pay import duty and got kicked out.

Read this article on why BYD must setup local India operations to gain any economies of scale.Without this BYD will 100% fail in India. I can guarantee this.

Warren Buffet-backed  Chinese EV maker BYD bets  big  on  India

The Shenzhen-based firm has set itself a lofty goal of achieving a 40% market share of India’s EV market by 2030

www.livemint.com

 

[jai jaganath]

Atto 3 reveiws in India, NZ, Austrilia:

India:

New zealand

Austrilia

Bro seriously this brand doesn't have future in India
Bcoz our brands have started pitching up for ev
Ev revolution started 2017 in China ours will be 2022-23
Our brands are setting up factories for manufacturing batteries and cells which will be operational by2023-24 which will make things more easier if India
Our market thinking right now is like China once new things arrive everyone likes to give a try this was not earlier
Congratulations for your brilliant ev market but wait for 4-5 years we will become very competent and main point is that unlike diesel and petrol engine car industry were beginning was majorly imports here we are making most of the things in house
Yeah assistance would be taken by foreign companies but this industry will be indigenous in long run and a bright spot of our market
Coming to Tata and Mahindra importing
Might be few components which would stop once factories are completed in India
But majorly they are taking assistance from Chinese and European countries