China Claims 90% of Spratly Islands, Actually Controls 13%

[panduranghari]

just a couple of days ago, a Philippine Navy ship was sent to apprehend 8 fishing boats in scarborough shoal (huangyan to Chinese) initially

For what its worth, use the name that your country has given to the islands. Do not bow to the Chinese by using their given names. Another way to establish your sovereignity.

 

[panduranghari]

"Chinese controlled it and developed it" after occupying it. The chinese logic of chinese territory is based on claims like my 2000 old great great grandfather fished there once or my brother went there and took a dump while passing through the area. Do u know that size of centuries old china is far far less than as of today? It surprises me that somehow u guys fail to understand that u can't use the same logic for and against the same expansionist zeal of China.

In the same vein, I think China would love to claim the majority of Africa too.

 

[Oblaks]

For what its worth, use the name that your country has given to the islands. Do not bow to the Chinese by using their given names. Another way to establish your sovereignity.

Thanks for reminding me. That part of the West Philippine sea is known to locals as "panatag" (calm) shoal. Local fishermen use to fish there with boats nets and spears.

 

[s002wjh]

Contrary to what you have said that ASEAN nations is unlikely to use their Navy forces, just a couple of days ago, a Philippine Navy ship was sent to apprehend 8 fishing boats in scarborough shoal (huangyan to Chinese) initially. These fishermen were not apprehended because of tresspassing but because they were poaching for endagered species in massive amounts (corals, sharks. sea turtles). Later a coast guard boat replaced it to ease tensions as the Philippines is also keen on avoiding an actual skirmish. As of this writing there is still a standoff between chinese and philippine coast guard ships in that area. Who ever backs down doesnt matter. This event only shows that ASEAN nations will show their presence on the West Philippine Sea (known to the world specially the chinese as the South China Sea). Any SEA nation would never push china in a corner.. neither could china push any SEA nation.


Now going to the original topic in this forum. Why China occupies only a few islands. That is because the other claimants would not allow China to. Remeber China is claiming almost the whole china sea up to the shores of some country. This would be a major security risk for most ASEAN nations. If China really wants it she has to take it by force..there would be no other way. if he takes it by force, he has to do that with several nations in SEA. That is the reason that China is only willing to talk about the issue with individual nations in the dispute. He does not want to trigger a cooperation between ASEAN about this when actually the security of the whole ASEAN is at risk! other SEA countries not involved in the dispute might not realize it but if indeed china takes the SCS they might regret it

not really, majority of island are own by vietnam, very few are own by philipine. so IF china want to take it by force, it will be vietnams islands. china is much prefer to settle things through diplomacy for multiple reason.

 

[nitesh]

not really, majority of island are own by vietnam, very few are own by philipine. so IF china want to take it by force, it will be vietnams islands. china is much prefer to settle things through diplomacy for multiple reason.

Main reason being, not having military capability to take over. China can only create noises, in reality it does not control territories just 2km away from it's shores

 

[Ray]

Yes, peace and negotiated settlement would be the ideal answer.

But the environment should be conducive to come to the negotiating table.

 

[s002wjh]

Main reason being, not having military capability to take over. China can only create noises, in reality it does not control territories just 2km away from it's shores

you really need do some research on military capability of chinese navy. and i'm still waiting on link about the 2km island you mention

here is a start

People's Liberation Army Navy
Chinese Naval Forces - SinoDefence.com
THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA - 2012 UPDATE

now go compare with vietnam navy

 

[Kunal Biswas]

you really need do some research on military capability of chinese navy. and i'm still waiting on link about the 2km island you mention

here is a start

People's Liberation Army Navy
Chinese Naval Forces - SinoDefence.com
THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA - 2012 UPDATE

now go compare with vietnam navy

I don't need to see all these

Chinese Navy targeting foreign vessels using disguised Fishing Trawlers

The Indian government has alerted all its ships to be prepared to defend against attacks by Chinese naval craft disguised as fishing trawlers, in the South China Sea. The mode of attack would be by ramming other ships. Chinese fishing trawlers have been increasing in numbers in and around the South China Sea, particularly within the resource rich Spratly Islands group.

Chinese naval vessels disguised as fishing trawlers have been targeting Indian registered ships in the South China Sea aggressively this year, by ramming into them. India has increased its oil exploration efforts recently off the coast of Vietnam in conjunction with the Vietnamese government. Ramming attacks by Chinese fishing trawlers have been taking place well within Vietnam's 200 mile economic development zone.

Chinese naval ships disguised as fishing trawlers have been ramming naval ships, fishing boats and oil exploration vessels of other countries in the South China Sea, but seem to be heavily targeting Indian ships. India believes that by using these kinds of fishing trawlers to ram other countries ships, China can effectively hide their aggressive agenda to keep other countries out of the Spratly Islands. These kinds of attacks can be passed off as accidents, allowing China to avoid any reprimand by the international community, and still achieve its political objectives.

The Indian navy believes China does have a huge flotilla of navy ships disguised as fishing trawlers and hydrological data collecting ship in the South China Sea, which are being used to actively target and harass ships from other countries. A Japanese coast guard vessels and a Philippines survey ship, were the latest victims this year of harassment by Chinese disguised fishing trawlers.

The Chinese navy is very small compared to other countries in the region, which is why it makes sense that they are using these indirect means to accomplish their political objectives. Otherwise if China used its naval vessels it would escalate tension in the region, as many countries have conflicting claims over parts of the Spratly Islands.

India has increased its presence in the South China Sea, and has been cooperating with counties such as Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam to explore oil deposits in the area of the Spratly Islands. Recently though, China has strongly protested that India stop oil exploration and developing oil ventures off the coast of Vietnam, and since then the Indian navy has noticed an increase in ramming attacks on its ships from Chinese fishing trawlers.

Chinese Navy targeting foreign vessels using disguised Fishing Trawlers - Charles Ayoub

 

[Kunal Biswas]

 

[Oblaks]

so IF china want to take it by force, it will be vietnams islands. china is much prefer to settle things through diplomacy for multiple reason.

Then that gives more reason why China cannot easily tale the SCS. The Vietnamese are hard core warriors. Remember they made US give up!

 

[nitesh]

you really need do some research on military capability of chinese navy. and i'm still waiting on link about the 2km island you mention

here is a start

People's Liberation Army Navy
Chinese Naval Forces - SinoDefence.com
THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA - 2012 UPDATE

now go compare with vietnam navy

If China have so much of capability then why they don't control matsu and kinmen islands? Are you tellign me that this navy is not able to sail just 2km from your coast? This is not a CCP propaganda site, just don't blabber nonsense

 

[badguy2000]

If China have so much of capability then why they don't control matsu and kinmen islands? Are you tellign me that this navy is not able to sail just 2km from your coast? This is not a CCP propaganda site, just don't blabber nonsense

you know little about Kingmen and Matsu Islands....it is the most direct geographical and historical link which ties PRC(Mainland CHina) and ROC( Taiwan).

historically and geographically,according to the laws of eirther Republich or CHina and PR. China ,Matsu and Kingmen Islands belong to Fujian Province,instead of Taiwan province.

So, In theory ,Taiwan is just one of two provinces really controlled (fully or partly) by Republic of China, In fact, Republic of CHina still has a "Fujian Provincial Government" .

Thus, if some guys in Taiwan want to declare independence of Taiwan, then it is very hard problem for them to deal with Kingmen and Matsu Islands,which does not belongs to Taiwan ,but to Fujian Provice,even according to laws of Republic of CHina.

So, In fact, Taiwan's real controll of the small islands become a actual legal obstacle of an independent Taiwan....that is why both Mainland CHina and those anti-independent Taiwanese both want to have Taiwan keep those islands.

 

[nitesh]

you know little about Kingmen and Matsu Islands....it is the most direct geographical and historical link which ties PRC(Mainland CHina) and ROC( Taiwan).

historically and geographically,according to the laws of eirther Republich or CHina and PR. China ,Matsu and Kingmen Islands belong to Fujian Province,instead of Taiwan province.

So, In theory ,Taiwan is just one of two provinces really controlled (fully or partly) by Republic of China, In fact, Republic of CHina still has a "Fujian Provincial Government" .

Thus, if some guys in Taiwan want to declare independence of Taiwan, then it is very hard problem for them to deal with Kingmen and Matsu Islands,which does not belongs to Taiwan ,but to Fujian Provice,even according to laws of Republic of CHina.

So, In fact, Taiwan's real controll of the small islands become a actual legal obstacle of an independent Taiwan....that is why both Mainland CHina and those anti-independent Taiwanese both want to have Taiwan keep those islands.

All this blabbering does not changes the fact that PRC does not control islands just 2km away from it's territories, period, keep spinning it, does not changes the reality on the ground

 

[badguy2000]

All this blabbering does not changes the fact that PRC does not control islands just 2km away from it's territories, period, keep spinning it, does not changes the reality on the ground

hehe,you have your freedom to believe that the earth is the center of univ.......period.

 

[nitesh]

hehe,you have your freedom to believe that the earth is the center of univ.......period.

He he he like you have freedom of spreading lies about non existent capabilities

 

[s002wjh]

If China have so much of capability then why they don't control matsu and kinmen islands? Are you tellign me that this navy is not able to sail just 2km from your coast? This is not a CCP propaganda site, just don't blabber nonsense

if US have so much capability then why didn't they attack Nkorean or Iran. its call political reason, go back to school and learn something before make a fool of yourself.

 

[s002wjh]

Then that gives more reason why China cannot easily tale the SCS. The Vietnamese are hard core warriors. Remember they made US give up!

its not jungle warfare. navy warfare vietnam don't stand a chance against china. US give up because it was land war, in a jungle. the cost outweight teh benefit. go do some research about chinese navy war in 70's vs vietnam.

hardcore warrior, what they gonna do swim and attack chinese DDGs.

navy warfare is all about equipment, strategy, technology. and china has significant adavantage over vietnam/philippine due to its surveillance satelite, FFD/DDG, subs, UAV etc etc. vietnam try to purchase some sub from russia, not sure whats the status on that right now. SCS is all about navy power and airforce

 

[Oblaks]

its not jungle warfare. navy warfare vietnam don't stand a chance against china. US give up because it was land war, in a jungle. the cost outweight teh benefit. go do some research about chinese navy war in 70's vs vietnam.

hardcore warrior, what they gonna do swim and attack chinese DDGs.

navy warfare is all about equipment, strategy, technology. and china has significant adavantage over vietnam/philippine due to its surveillance satelite, FFD/DDG, subs, UAV etc etc. vietnam try to purchase some sub from russia, not sure whats the status on that right now. SCS is all about navy power and airforce

The battle ovr the Parcels with vietnam is just a skirmish. You may have a point saying that Chinese has the superior navy and that maritime warfare is also about strategy. If this escalates to a full scale war, China can not afford to bring all of its naval force only to the south. And we are talking about islands whose proximity to Vietnam is very close. Vietnam is fully capable of multiple amphibious assaults due to this proximity which China will not have the privilege of doing. You also don't know if It is only Vietnam that Chine will be up against. And mind you, the americans made the mistake of thinking that the Vietnam war will be a walk in the park. The same way you are thinking perhaps right now.

 

[s002wjh]

vietnam war was a land war. SCS will not be the same. if you look at recent chinese navy upgrade etc. its much better equipment, trained than vietnam.
ships by ship, trainning are all favor china. here is a brief summary of chinese navy update. china won't invade vietnam or anything like that. the only advantage of vietnam has is some its occupied island are near vietnam, which has better logistic, maybe air support.

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA - 2012 UPDATE
THE RAPID GROWTH AND MODERNIZATION OF THE CHINESE NAVY

2011 has seen significant increases in major combatant shipbuilding by the PLAN across the board. Fromthe PLA Navy's first carrier being launched and sent to sea for trials, to continued testing and production of J-15 fighters for that carrier's airwing, to the increased tempo of serial production of the PLAN's Type 071 LPD, the Yuzhao Class (with a second and third unit launched and a fourth being built), to increased serial production of the PLAN's premier stealthy, area-wide anti-air/multipurpose destroyer, the Lanzhou Type 52C Class DDG with VLS and PARS which now has seen a 3rd, 4th, and 5th unit launched and a 6th, 7th and an 8th unit under construction, to continued rapid production of the modern Type 054A FFG Guided missiles Frigate, which now numbers 16 units either launched or about to be launched, to a brand new class of Offshore Patrol Vessel (OPV), the Type 056 Class which appears to be a PLAN litoral combatant which is already building in two shipyards and may expand to as many as four shipyards for very rapid production (30 or more units), to production of a new, improved Yuan Class SSK conventional submarine, the Qing Class, which has Air-independent Propulsion (AIP) capabilities.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

vietnam war was a land war. SCS will not be the same. if you look at recent chinese navy upgrade etc. its much better equipment, trained than vietnam.
ships by ship, trainning are all favor china. here is a brief summary of chinese navy update. china won't invade vietnam or anything like that. the only advantage of vietnam has is some its occupied island are near vietnam, which has better logistic, maybe air support.

THE RISING SEA DRAGON IN ASIA - 2012 UPDATE

THE RAPID GROWTH AND MODERNIZATION OF THE CHINESE NAVY

All this is opinion until China goes to war. (China is not a blue water navy).