China builds lighter tanks for Tibet border

[Ray]

China builds lighter tanks for Tibet border

China is touting a new light tank designed specifically for operations in the high-altitude rugged terrain in Tibet region which borders India. Pictures of the new lighter tank which has officially not been named yet have been displayed in the Chinese media.

The tank has a light weight and a powerful diesel engine suitable for oxygen-deficit environments, according to huanqiu.com, a well-informed website which is a chosen platform to reveal advances in China's military modernization and defence technology.

The tank has missile firing capability for hitting helicopters which is one of the major threats to tanks on a battlefield. Huanqiu quoted sources saying that the tank has a 105-mm main gun capable of firing shells. It also features a powerful combination of frontal armor on the hull and turret.

China is likely to export the tank to other countries, according to Kanwa Defence Review, a Canada-based online publication. Buyers may include Pakistan which has purchased several weapons from China, sources said.

The decision to display the new tank is part of an emerging trend which includes exhibiting a modified T-99 main battle tank besides YJ-12 and YJ-100 anti-ship guided missiles. The People's Liberation Army had also debuted the prototype Y-20 and the J-31 aircrafts at an international air show recently.

"This is a symbol of frankness that China has nothing to hide," Ni Lexiong, a Shanghai-based military expert, was quoted by the official China Military Online.

Pictures showed the tank undergoing trials. The Huanqiu report said the vehicle is equipped with cutting-edge hydropneumatic suspension system that ensures better maneuverability and survivability in mountains.
China builds lighter tanks for Tibet border - The Times of India

China is aware that the first wave of troops in the Tibetan Plateau will be heliborne forces so as to capitalise on surprise and consolidate position for the follow up troops to come up and break out.

Given the high altitude and the narrow roads/ access to the Tibetan Plateau from the Indian side, medium tanks will be difficult for Indians to induct in a timeframe to achieve surprise.

Therefore, the ideal stopgap is a light tank that can take on the helicopters as also the troops in tandem with its Motorised infantry.

The important point is the anti helicopter missiles that were not there for the earlier light tanks that they had.

 

[Blackwater]

And India still has not decided on light howitzers lolllllllll

 

[sgarg]

This would happen as China uses its industrial capacity to build weapons according to the need; while Indian generals browse brochures and Indian MOD goes hyperactive in blacklisting foreign suppliers while blocking domestic suppliers.

The Indian procurement machinery is totally paralyzed in terms of both planning and execution.

 

[kaustav2001]

Apparently the new light tank (Type 99A2 light tank), a modification of the Type 99 MBT that China's fielding in Tibet. More @ Chinese Military News Blog 中国军事: China deploys a new type of light tank in Tibet

Wonder what happened to the Indo-Polish venture on the light tank Anders to be manufactured in India by BEML.

 

[Hari Sud]

India fielded this type of light tank AMX 30 in the 1965 war. It was dumped immediately afterwards and never replaced. It's light armour became a crew death trap.

Modern ammunition usually makes a short work of lightly armoured tanks like this. It is no threat.

As an infantry support tank, it has to be subservient to infantry needs. In mountain passes and valleys, it is the foot mobile infantry which dominates as it happened in 1962. Prescence of a tank boosts the troop morale but ask the tank crew, they face a life and death situation even from a rocket propelled grenade, hence are reluctant to be on the frontline.

As long as India possesses the light pack artillery at the mountain top positions either 155mm or 130mm type, with direct sight to enemy entry position or a pass where they are likely to make the ingress, chances of them succeeding are very little. With a newly raised aggressive mountain corp, ready to threaten Chinese rear supply line, an agreesive Chinese stance is next to impossible.

Yes, Chinese rockets and missiles are more advanced than India. If they can fire these with pinpoint accuracy, which Chinese have demonstrated in their latest missiles developed to sink an Aircraft Carrier, it is possible to take out Indian artillery position from quite a distant away (say outside Tibet). There is a drawback here, a 500 kilo charge in a missile can do a very limited damage if the guns are well hidden and on a reverse slope.

Hence relax, all military developments in China are not as threatening as the government controlled Chinese media would make them look.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

India has anticipated this with the attack helicopter purchases. What advantage do these tanks offer
In the Tibetan terrain? Don't see any difference?

 

[Ray]

India has anticipated this with the attack helicopter purchases. What advantage do these tanks offer
In the Tibetan terrain? Don't see any difference?

Our medium tanks cannot go into the Tibet Plateau hell for leather as they can do in the plains, especially in the East, because of the narrow terrain of the mountain configuration.

Movement of large forces through these single and narrow tracks will require many vehicles and it will be picked up by satellite by the Chinese.

Therefore, the initial phase has to capitalise on surprise and that can be done by heliborne troops who can be landed and they can create am 'airhead'.

The airhead should also contain extraction zones (EZs), interior lines of communications (LOCs), and terrain that allows for conducting a defence in depth.

Thereafter, the follow up troops can consolidate into that airhead and then move on to their specific tasks.

While in the air and while landing, the heliborne troops are most vulnerable. It is at these juncture that light tanks can devastate the landing and change the combat ratio.

 

[Ray]

India fielded this type of light tank AMX 30 in the 1965 war. It was dumped immediately afterwards and never replaced. It's light armour became a crew death trap.

Modern ammunition usually makes a short work of lightly armoured tanks like this. It is no threat.

As an infantry support tank, it has to be subservient to infantry needs. In mountain passes and valleys, it is the foot mobile infantry which dominates as it happened in 1962. Prescence of a tank boosts the troop morale but ask the tank crew, they face a life and death situation even from a rocket propelled grenade, hence are reluctant to be on the frontline.

As long as India possesses the light pack artillery at the mountain top positions either 155mm or 130mm type, with direct sight to enemy entry position or a pass where they are likely to make the ingress, chances of them succeeding are very little. With a newly raised aggressive mountain corp, ready to threaten Chinese rear supply line, an agreesive Chinese stance is next to impossible.

Yes, Chinese rockets and missiles are more advanced than India. If they can fire these with pinpoint accuracy, which Chinese have demonstrated in their latest missiles developed to sink an Aircraft Carrier, it is possible to take out Indian artillery position from quite a distant away (say outside Tibet). There is a drawback here, a 500 kilo charge in a missile can do a very limited damage if the guns are well hidden and on a reverse slope.

Hence relax, all military developments in China are not as threatening as the government controlled Chinese media would make them look.

The AMX 13 light tanks ( were utilised in the Independent Recce Squadrons) were succeeded by the PT 76. They were dumped because in the plains, they could be made mincemeat of as also for the fact that the concept of Independent Recce Squadrons became obsolete. They were useful in the riverine terrain, but even there, they also had casualties.

Tanks, if they are confined to the line ahead movement formation, which the narrow Mountain valleys forces them to adopt, they are prone to being hit by the enemy from the flank and there is no guarantee that the Chinese will not infiltrate with their Anti Tank groups suitable equipped and kitted. One tank immobilised, it will be a nightmare to get it off the narrow mountain 'road' so that the column can move on.

However, once out on the Tibetan Plateau, it is ideal tank country. To get there undetected is not feasible. Therefore, the requirement for a quick incisive strike and consolidation, on which the follow up formations, be they tanks, artillery, infantry can build up on.

That is why it becomes essential to capitalise on surprise and speed and that can be done through ari assault/ heliborne troops which can make the airhead.

Pack Artillery is artillery that is carried by Mules MA or what is called 'pack animal'. What would be the weight of the 130mm or 155mm artillery? The M777 Light gun weighs 3,420 kg/ 4,400kgs IIRC.
Therefore, as I see it, it won't be pack artillery and instead will have to be transported under-slung by helicopter.

While one can always relax as to the adversaries modernisation, yet, one has to take into account the same and visualise its application on the battlefield and take necessary action to neutralise or immobilise the same through weaponry or tactics.

 

[Hari Sud]

Thanks Ray.

 

[Redhawk]

The tank has missile firing capability for hitting helicopters which is one of the major threats to tanks on a battlefield.

More lightly armoured fighting vehicles armed with surface-to-air missiles to shoot down helicopters have been around since the 1960s. Oughtn't to be hard for the Communist Chinese to come up with a lighter, ASM-armed medium tank for use in Tibet.

 

[Sambha ka Boss]

China is aware that the first wave of troops in the Tibetan Plateau will be heliborne forces so as to capitalise on surprise and consolidate position for the follow up troops to come up and break out.

Given the high altitude and the narrow roads/ access to the Tibetan Plateau from the Indian side, medium tanks will be difficult for Indians to induct in a timeframe to achieve surprise.

Therefore, the ideal stopgap is a light tank that can take on the helicopters as also the troops in tandem with its Motorised infantry.

The important point is the anti helicopter missiles that were not there for the earlier light tanks that they had.

I want to know which country's technology is being copied and pasted by China.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Maybe the Sheridan is still viable.

 

[karn]

China has been building light tanks for decades . The envisioned their use in hilly/forested areas in southern china which is far from ideal tank country .
Type 62 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Im pretty sure likewise there are or will be "light" versions of type 96 and Type 99 tanks .

 

[karn]

Maybe the Sheridan is still viable.

Didn't it take a lot of shit for having aluminium armour ?

 

[Ray]

I want to know which country's technology is being copied and pasted by China.

How is your question connected with my post that you quote?

China is aware that the first wave of troops in the Tibetan Plateau will be heliborne forces so as to capitalise on surprise and consolidate position for the follow up troops to come up and break out.

Given the high altitude and the narrow roads/ access to the Tibetan Plateau from the Indian side, medium tanks will be difficult for Indians to induct in a timeframe to achieve surprise.

Therefore, the ideal stopgap is a light tank that can take on the helicopters as also the troops in tandem with its Motorised infantry.

The important point is the anti helicopter missiles that were not there for the earlier light tanks that they had.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Didn't it take a lot of shit for having aluminium armour ?

I don't recall, but would not be surprised, although lighter weight provides a capability for LAPES deployment among other things.

 

[shiphone]

baseless meditation or daydreaming is the waste of time... "35 ton class tank's airlift maneuvering via heli" (no possible over the 4000m plateau and no attention from the Army at all)or "Anti-Heli mission via the Light tank with missile" (specialized ADS detachment accompanying the armored force)are really surprising and laughable statements, even from some so called ex-serviceman....LOL...

and Foolishly sentimental is another laughing point... not every china development/movement is India related ...almost all China Land weapon system should pass the high and cold area tests on the Plateau terrain, but it doesn't mean such weapon is for the units in this area...
------------
two earlier posts about the Light tank project...

it's a project under development and still in bidding procedure although the winning team seems already there...
basicly two teams are competing for the chassis (we could see two kinds of Chassis for trial),and the turret also has some different designs from some other Research institutions...

we have got to know some Requests for the Bidding

for the Chassis: .........and this winner--the chosen Chassis would be Army's next generation Medium Weight Genernal Purpose chassis (for IFV, SPH, Missile Launcher varients)...

1. 30 tons class
2. gas-hydraulic suspension system
3. hydraulic automatic transmission


for the turret
1. 105 mm Rifle gun
2. autoloading system in the rear section of the turret
3. Relatively advanced( expensive ,as well) Fire Control system

such Light tank project would have to compromise on Protection and go after better maneuverability and firepower( with advanced FC for early firing)

the winner seems have surfaced for some time, but it's not the time to speak too much...
two Prototype Vehicles have both appeared...we could ID them from the details of the Chassis,

Prototype Vehicle 1: --hull front armor on the upside


-----------------------------
Prototype Vehicle 2:--hull front armor on the downside.

all right ,it seems it's safe to reveal the winner after the two rounds of bidding...LOL...errrr, it's PV2 ,now it has entered full speed tech/engineering development phase.

BTW, the protection is the typical "Base armor steel+composite armor module + ERA" combination. it's none of business of 'Aluminum armor' on lighter Armored vehicles... the protection is mainly against the HEAT warheads threats and limited KE protection ability (25-40mm APDS Level).

 

[shiphone]

a rare frontal view of this new Light Tank project...

as we said, the bidding was over ,the final combination of the turret and chassis (picked in two designs each) was decided...