China: An enemy at large

hit&run

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I was going through Sino-India border skirmishes/wars and this is what I found:
Chinese don't think it possible to make India surrender by use of Military forces alone, with India set to achieving Military parity with China by 2012 (not interms of numbers, but in terms of capability and platforms). They need to play other cards, and they need to play well. I hope India is still left with a few tricks under her sleeves.
Don't you think China and pakistan think alike.
If i see the brighter side of it, then i am proud that India can not be conquered by anyone with simpler means of aggression. More we will learn about these counterproductive forces more we will become tough for them to be defeated.
The typical chines mentality is to Isolate enemy then force political compromise. They wont attack you head on; be prepare not be isolated, Stretch and spread as much as you/we can.
Regards
 

nimo_cn

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Nimo_cn......From a people standpoint - I believe that common citizens of China and India want a peaceful relationship based on strong commerce and mutual growth, except for maybe some hyper-nationalistic right wing types.

Most Indians dont really care even if China becomes the most dominant Asian power provided that it does not try to throttle other countries progress and growth.

But that is not what the CPC and its leadership is doing. China has been actively undermining India for the last 50 years thru their Pak proxy.
The Chinese sees India as the only country that has the potential to contest for Asian dominant power status - provided that India gets its act together.

Hence, your Chinese leaders see this as a "zero sum game".

With Pakistan now slowing falling into disarray with its own problems and the strong US arm twisting it....China now has a tough decision to make - they can no longer depend on Pak to do their dirty work for them vis-a-vis bleeding India infinitely, nor is China's influence on Pak that great anymore with the US breathing down their neck.

China also has a major PR dilemma on its hands....how do you keep supporting a country like Pak that is the virtual breeding and training ground for every major Jihadi terrorist attack in the world, and still expect the world to respect China as a responsible peaceful world power and UNSC member.

China now has to get its own hands dirty. This is why India-China relations are going to get really tense in the future.

Regardless of what the average Chinese layman thinks....the facts on the ground, and the history of the past 50 years shows that China is no friend of India !!

The fact that many Chinese posters in DFI dont admit this, simply means that that they are not intellectually honest.
Yes, you are right, there are so many problems unsovled between India and China,which are left by the confrontation in the past 50 years. And now these problems become the main barrier that stop China and India from building deeper relationship. Not to mention new problems pop up from time to time, so it is true that China and India still have a long way to go before becoming friends.

But it is unfair to only blame China for all these problems, i know many other people will contradict me on this. Both China and India were just doing what they thought was good for their respective national interestes.

And the temporary problems between China and India doesn't mean we should be enemies, right?

All these problems just remind you and me it needs more time,more determination, more patience, more compromise and more wisdom from both sides for us to improve the bilateral relations.
 

Singh

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Yes, you are right, there are so many problems unsovled between India and China,which are left by the confrontation in the past 50 years.
The unsolved problems had led to the confrontations.

And now these problems become the main barrier that stop China and India from building deeper relationship. Not to mention new problems pop up from time to time, so it is true that China and India still have a long way to go before becoming friends.
India and China are not friends because of the Chinese Govt.

But it is unfair to only blame China for all these problems, i know many other people will contradict me on this. Both China and India were just doing what they thought was good for their respective national interestes.
You are right many will contradict you, It would be better if you would expand on your reason.

And the temporary problems between China and India doesn't mean we should be enemies, right?
India and Indians doesn't treat the Chinese and China as enemies, China is after all one of our biggest trading partner.

All these problems just remind you and me it needs more time,more determination, more patience, more compromise and more wisdom from both sides for us to improve the bilateral relations.
CPC and wisdom, patience and comprise ? seriously ?
 

johnee

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But it is unfair to only blame China for all these problems, i know many other people will contradict me on this. Both China and India were just doing what they thought was good for their respective national interestes.
Conflict with India is not in China's interest, just as a conflict with China is not in India's interest. Conflict with Pakistan is also not in India's interest. The problem is that both Pakistan and China are ruled by organisations(PA in Pak and Commies in China) that do not represent or care for common people on street. These organisations will do anything to further their interests(and will misguide their people into following them). This is the reason for conflict. If China and Pakistan were to truly work in their national interests, then they would seek friendship with India. Just as India seeks friendship with its neighbours...but this friendly attitude is deciphered as weakness and the bayonet is pushed harder into the flesh!
 

Ray

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That is absurd!
I believe both China and India want to establish a good relationship with each other, because both sides will benefit from a warm environment between China and India. We have wasted too much precious resources on confrontation, it is time for us to cooperate.

Who really dont to see Hindi Chini bhai bhai ?
I guess it is Russia.
If that comes true, who else will buy Russia's weapons?
Friendship is one thing and geostrategy is another!

China wants to be the big boy in the block!

As simple as that!
 

redragon

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Friendship is one thing and geostrategy is another!

China wants to be the big boy in the block!

As simple as that!
China does want to be big boy, so does India, not through war or invasion but through hard working to develop
 

no smoking

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You don't have to threaten with Nuclear weapons when you go to a war. Remember, China has NFU policy regarding Nuclear weapons, so it cannot threaten any country with nuclear weapons unless other country threatens to use them.

So, what is your point?.
Point is india gov is aware of the existence of china military influence and bas been preparing for any possible clash since the end of 1962 war.

India army can say it didn't prepare well before 1962 because of the stupidity of politician. But the situation already changed after that. Based on the description of my friends who once served at sino-india border, at least india army stationed there are better supplied and better equiped than the chinese side.
 

roma

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how can some of the membrs of this forum claim that china is a friend when CPC has not relinquished it's (illegal ) claims over indian territory ?
 

Ray

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China does want to be big boy, so does India, not through war or invasion but through hard working to develop
Of course China does not beg.

Hard work it is when teaching Vietnam a lesson and then running back to lick the wounds.

That sure is hard work!
 

dineshchaturvedi

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It is good that current government is very serious of modernization of armed forces. The best way to avoid conflict is to make sure we are capable enough to be able to give serious damage to the enemy in case of conflict.
 

nimo_cn

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how can some of the membrs of this forum claim that china is a friend when CPC has not relinquished it's (illegal ) claims over indian territory ?
I didn't said China is already a friend of India. I was saying China and India deserve a better bilateral relationship, and i believe that is good for both sides.

If you stick on the territory problems between China and India, we can never move forward.
 

mattster

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I didn't said China is already a friend of India. I was saying China and India deserve a better bilateral relationship, and i believe that is good for both sides.

If you stick on the territory problems between China and India, we can never move forward.

Nimo_cn.......I think the only way to make you Chinese understand this is to give you an equivalent analogy.

Imagine if India were to start clandestinely arming Vietnam and Taiwan with nuclear weapons, missiles, conventional weapons, and money.

Then on top of that imagine if India started claiming the whole of Tibet as disputed territory belonging to India, and we started arming any group in China that has a beef with the government.

Its not like China is just simply trying to claim a small sliver of a few square kilometers of Indian territory......they are literally trying to claim a whole state in Indian North East. They know they are not going to get it...but they want to use it for leverage in other areas.

Now, tell me.....what part of this type of aggression do you not understand ?
 

nimo_cn

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Conflict with India is not in China's interest, just as a conflict with China is not in India's interest. Conflict with Pakistan is also not in India's interest. The problem is that both Pakistan and China are ruled by organisations(PA in Pak and Commies in China) that do not represent or care for common people on street. These organisations will do anything to further their interests(and will misguide their people into following them). This is the reason for conflict.
What party is ruling China has nothing to do with what we are talking about. And whether CCP cares about common Chinese has nothing to do with what we are talking about.
"This is the reason for conflict"
Are you implying it is CCP'sruling that leads to the conflicts between China and India? Let me tell you, even if it is KMT that was ruling China, China would do the same thing to protect her territory.

If China and Pakistan were to truly work in their national interests, then they would seek friendship with India. Just as India seeks friendship with its neighbours...but this friendly attitude is deciphered as weakness and the bayonet is pushed harder into the flesh!
I believe both sides have the intentions to improve the relationship, and both sides have taken some actions. But maybe they didn't do it in the right way, or they didn't do it hard enough, so we are still in a tense situation. But if we just give up, the situation will never change, or can become worse.
 

sandeepdg

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Wow. An article that states outright that Pakistani's and Chinese are barbarians. I believe that destroys all sense of credibility that the author or the website has.

The author also needs to get his facts straight. That chartered cargo plane from the UAE was flying Chinese military equipment back from a defense expo! It used the airport in India as a refueling station.

Finally, any credibility this author has left is completely destroyed by the fact that he bases his article on Gordan Chang! The same author who claimed the imminent collapse of the Chinese state in 2006. What a lunatic. To alienate Chang even more, he is a regular contributor to that god awful person, Glenn Beck, on Fox news.

Bogus article.
never seen a Japanese lapping upto the Chinese !! are you for real ?
 

debasree

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Don't worry about this, your gov already did that. Remember, when you exlpode the nuclear bomb in last 90s, your defence minister told the whole world that china's "nuclear threat" was the motivation when there was not a single chinese official threat of using nuclear bomb on india.
why u do the dirty job? when ur friend or partner whatever u calls r more than willing 2 do the job on behalf of u,with urs delivered bombs & missiles.


Mod Edit: Please do not use SMS syntax.
 
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badguy2000

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China: An enemy at large

By M.V. Kamath

China is no friend of India. According to China expert Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, "China sees India as an adversary and wants to destabilise it". According to him, "China has supported terrorists who operate in India and China transferred nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan to keep India in check." The closer Pakistan is at the breaking point, the more China will try to encircle India by making friendly overtures towards India�s neighbours.

Does anyone remember the time when India was forced to take action against Pakistan forces in East Bengal as millions of refugees began to pour into West Bengal following the revolt of Sheikh Mujibur Rahman against Islamabad�s military misrule? Forced to take military action, India stormed into East Bengal and defeated the Pakistani Army and took 90,000 Pakistani soldiers as prisoners-of-war. It was at that time that one of India�s worst enemies, US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, tried to persuade China to attack India.

The same story at a different level is being enacted now. Pakistan itself is in deep trouble. It is scared that India may take advantage of its current situation and amass its troops along the Indo-Pak border. Pakistan, under pressure from the US has withdrawn a sizeable segment of its forces from the East for action against the Taliban in the West. Pakistan is afraid that India might take this opportunity and invade it. In the circumstances, the Pakistan Armed Forces must have persuaded Beijing to indulge in illegal activities along the Sino-Indian border to distract the Government of India.

According to the Indian Army chief, there were 21 Chinese incursions in June, 20 in July and 24 in August. Between 2006 and 2008 Chinese intrusions doubled from 140 incidents to 270. These are obvious tactics, but they should be taken seriously. For Shri SM Krishna, External Affairs Minister, to play down the aggressive tactics employed by China in the Ladakh region by saying that the Sino-Indian border is "most peaceful" fools no one. Shri Krishna may be playing the diplomatic game but either he is unwilling to read up on history or is ignorant of how China betrayed India even as Nehru and VK Krishna Menon were espousing Hindi Chini bhai bhai.

China is no friend of India. According to China expert Gordon Chang, author of The Coming Collapse of China, "China sees India as an adversary and wants to destabilise it." According to him, "China has supported terrorists who operate in India and China transferred nuclear weapons technology to Pakistan to keep India in check." The closer Pakistan is at the breaking point, the more China will try to encircle India by making friendly overtures towards India�s neighbours, Mynmar, Bangladesh, Nepal and Sri Lanka. The United States can do nothing. Either it doesn�t want to or is incapable of taking China on-a nation to which it is deeply indebted. It is shocking to think that it is beholden to Pakistan for containing the Taliban.

To see the United States, the only Super Power on earth grovelling at the feet of Pakistan and promising it $7.5 billion in aid over five years, most of which goes into the pockets of the Pakistan Army, is unbelievable. An official US agency had charged Pakistan with misusing American aid to fight the Taliban by spending the money to buy arms to fight India. And now, to top it all former President Pervez Musharraf has himself admitted that Pakistan has been freely using US aid to strengthen its defences against India. In an interview he even went so far as to say that he did not care whether the US would be angered by his disclosure. Pakistan gets its arms practically free. India has to spend billions to match Pakistan�s offensive capabilities. The US is thus enforcing an arms race in South Asia to India�s detriment.

With the United States as �friend�, India does not need enemies. China is trying to keep India in perpetual fear of war and has had the impertinence to warn the Dalai Lama not to visit Arunachal Pradesh and especially Tawang. It is here that Dalai Lama halted in 1959 when he escaped from Lhasa. He has close links with a monastery there and he has every right to visit it. China�s remarks must be treated with total disdain. If once India gives in, China will misunderstand it as weakness and seek to make more demands.

Already there is a general feeling that India is weak-minded and can be easily threatened to submission. Delhi should not give the wrong signals. At the same time, Pakistan�s provocative act of firing rockets across the Wagah border calls for instant reaction. This also is a deliberate attempt to see how far Pakistan can go before Delhi reacts. The suggestion must have come from China. One sees more than a similarity between Chinese incursions in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh and Pakistani infiltration into Indian territory. The United States can be of no help either way. It has been consistently unreliable in the last four decades. The disgraced Pakistani nuclear scientist AQ Khan has revealed that Pakistan was ready to test a nuclear bomb as early as 1984 as the US was inclined to overlook its clandestine atomic programme in the initial years, due to Islamabad�s involvement in the US-led war against the Soviet presence in Afghanistan.

The US even looked the other way when Pakistan bought 200 anti-aircraft missiles from North Korea during the Kargil War and the dollars came from US aid. Even when North Korean engineers came to visit the Kahuta nuclear plant in Pakistan quite openly, the US had nothing to say. A Q Khan got away, as they say, with murder. He could do anything illegal like supplying equipments to Iran or Libya and no questions were asked. The current Pakistani attacks have not brought out one single protest or warning from Washington. Obviously, as Gordon Chang says, everybody is aware of America�s current problems which prevents Washington from taking a strong stand.

Apart from �invading� Indian territory, China is becoming a host to terrorists. What arms, for instance, was a China-bound UAE Air force plane carrying when it made an emergency landing in India? At first the pilot lied about the cargo. When its real nature was discovered, there were red faces. For whom were those arms meant for? Certainly not for China? They are obviously intended for terrorists who have been given shelter in China and who make occasional forays in North East India. Shri Krishna may not want to show his hand but if he really believes that the recent incidents are not a cause for concern, India is going to be in real trouble soon. The time is ripe to tell both Pakistan and China that there is a limit to India�s forbearance and they had better beware. Barbarians do not understand politeness. They understand power and the willingness to use it. Shri SM Krishna must think again. India has paid dearly for *****footing in the past. It would be foolish to repeat the performance all over again.

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Come on, Gordon Chang again?
 

Ray

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So, this is the famous Gordon Chang of the Chinese posters!!
 

Ray

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Please answer the question, did china ever threat to use nuclear weapon on india?
The issue in my post is that China never goes to war.

It just moves in to foreign lands to 'teach lessons'.

Like some Professor teaching lessons in a University.

Juvenile and obfuscation.

Did China threaten to use a nuclear weapon?

Please answer this question - is China stupid to threaten the use of any weapon, be it nuclear or conventional? No, they are docile and peace loving teachers of lessons!

One does not have to use any threat. Having nuclear weapon is what in strategic syntax is called = threat in being!!
 

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Why the 1962 India-China border conflict is still unclassified by India government after 50 years? What do you still want to hide?
 

Neil

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Why the 1962 India-China border conflict is still unclassified by India government after 50 years? What do you still want to hide?
unclassified....??when?how?where?
its still highly classified my friend.....
nothing that great.....it just too embarrassing for the 1st PM of India and ofcource are highly popular/respected congress party...
and it also has operational importance for Indian Army so....
 

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