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aarav

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CDS post is a good news ,3 forces were kept apart as design by congress as they feared a coup as much happens in the neighborhood ,fear was logical but after kargil a jointness in tri services were needed and hopefully the other logical step making a single command rather than three services having three different commands for same theatre and having a single commander under which all resources are present.
 

tarunraju

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Keep an eye out for paki media chatter on this development. They are sure to spook out.

If we are indeed going to take back PoK, instituting a CDS is a major precursor. I think an appointment will be made in mere weeks, if not days.

As Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain said, if he's a 4-star ofc who's "first among equals," (like the CJI is the first among equal Justices of the SC), then this is a peacetime move.

If however he's a 5-star officer, then Pakistan is in big trouble. Meticulous planning is going into taking back PoK.

From a technical and legal standpoint, the institution of CDS, and this whole exercise of appointing one, will be most effective if they appoint a 5-star officer.
 

uoftotaku

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I've always wondered about the IAF's motivations in opposing both CDS and Joint Theater Command concepts in the past. What is it exactly that they're so afraid of?
 

Gautam Sarkar

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I've always wondered about the IAF's motivations in opposing both CDS and Joint Theater Command concepts in the past. What is it exactly that they're so afraid of?
Division of their already limited resources, I think.
 

republic_roi97

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Wouldn't it mean that a coup would now be easier for the military ? If not what are the precautions taken for it ?
 

Holy Triad

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After 2 Decades Twiddling Thumbs, India Announces Apex Chief Of Defence Staff



In a move that flings aside nearly two decades of agonising indecision, India’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi today formally announced that the country’s first ever Chief of Defence Staff (CDS) would be appointed. Modi used the occasion of India’s 73rd Independence Day to make the announcement from Delhi’s Red Fort, a podium that has come to represent a platform for significant policy guidances and future-focused decisions.

“To further sharpen coordination between the forces, I want to announce a major decision from the Red Fort: India will have a Chief of Defence Staff- CDS. This is going to make the forces even more effective,” the PM said as part of a 93-minute speech.

It was in 2001 that a Group of Ministers (GoM) recommended that India create a position for a Chief of Defence Staff. The recommendation was borne from troubling lessons gleaned from the 1999 Kargil conflict between India and Pakistan, a skirmish that India finally won, but not without significant cost. One of the many trouble areas identified was the lack of cohesive interoperability between the three armed forces, and the inability to coordinate fast and effectively. The post-Kargil years resulted instead in the creation of an Integrated Defence Staff (IDS) and the position of Chairman, Chiefs of Staff Committee — the latter a largely ceremonial position that befell the seniormost of the three chiefs.

It is not clear at this time who the country’s first Chief of Defence Staff will be, or whether the new appointment will follow the terms of reference and powers recommended by the original Group of Ministers, as well as successive committees. Whether the appointment will be a ‘4.5-star’ post is also unclear at the moment, though the MoD is likely to lay out the details in the coming days.


From a CENJOWS paper on defence reforms

While the current Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committee is IAF chief Air Chief Marshal B.S. Dhanoa, he will be succeeded to the appointment at the end of next month by Army chief General Bipin Rawat. Rawat retires at the end of the year.

“The crucial question is where will the Chief of Defence Staff figure in the Indian warrant of precedence. I’m guessing Cabinet Secretary equivalent or MoS equivalent,” says Ashok Malik, who recently completed a term as Press Secretary to the Indian President.

Today’s decision by the Indian PM, coming shortly after the historic move to abrogate Article 370 and bifurcate the erstwhile state of Jammu & Kashmir into two fresh Union Territories, has been in the works for months, with defence reforms a stated priority.



Lt Gen Satish Dua, Corps Commander in the Kashmir Valley during the decisive 2016 trans-LoC strikes in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir welcomed the announcement today, saying, “One single step that will be a game changer, a great force multiplier.”

Te original idea for the post of Chief of Defence Staff — the idea that fructified into the recommendation in 2001 — came from the Kargil Review Committee headed by K. Subrahmanyam, whose son S. Jaishankar is now India’s External Affairs Minister.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/201...ia-announces-apex-chief-of-defence-staff.html
 

uoftotaku

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Wouldn't it mean that a coup would now be easier for the military ? If not what are the precautions taken for it ?
All these talks of coup only exist in the feckless imagination of Congressi khaandani types ever since Chacha had a feverish dream that Army was plotting to overthrow him.

We are not Pukkiestan and our Forces are not hungry for power.

Also to expand on point raised on Fateh thread, many ex-officers dislike Rawat sir and paint him undeserving only because he was appointed by superceding 2 seniors. To many old foggies, seniority is a cardinal red line.
 
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Shiv sagar

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CDS is a double edged sword, it can be both a blessing and a Menes at times. So it will be to crucial decide who will be in the CDS chair, a mere rotation policy will not do justice to that position. May God help this nation if Govt decide to do rotation policy in action.
 

indiatester

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I've always wondered about the IAF's motivations in opposing both CDS and Joint Theater Command concepts in the past. What is it exactly that they're so afraid of?
Losing relevance as an independent force I think. The helicopter gunships and CAS roles make more sense with local commanders than with a central IAF command.
The only relevant roles IAF will be left with are the strategic, long range and the space missions. Also the thought of being over shadowed by the two larger forces.
 

indiatester

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I guess the CDS in hierarchy be above that of Defense secretary for sure. Would it be below/above/equal to Cabinet Secretary is something we need to see.
Does it come with a term extension?
What about the direct access the current chiefs enjoy with the PM right now?
 

tarunraju

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I guess the CDS in hierarchy be above that of Defense secretary for sure. Would it be below/above/equal to Cabinet Secretary is something we need to see.
Does it come with a term extension?
What about the direct access the current chiefs enjoy with the PM right now?
Yes, in the public-service order I'd imagine CDS ranking on par with Cabinet Secy, but in the military hierarchy, he's outranked by the President. The President also has quasi-military powers as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed forces. That title is given so that no uniformed officer should feel that he's the absolute highest ranking officer who can get his troops to do anything. All troops across the three service branches are sufficiently taught right from the academy to regard the President as CIC.

So if tomorrow CDS tells the military "I command you to go overthrow the government" and the President says "I command you to arrest the CDS," the military is duty bound to follow their CIC.

This is why the Nehruvian "coup" fear is an Everest-sized heap of BS.

Congis were corrupt and constantly feared both public-uprisings and military-coups. The lutyen's media took care of uprisings, and a fragmented military "convinced" them that a coup won't happen.

With the institution of a CDS, the Indian Armed Forces begins to resemble the US military and PLA. It also opens up the possibility of theater-specific sub-commands, which will greatly reduce response-times to situations.

It will also make India's defence posture more "hawkish."
 

indiatester

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Yes, in the public-service order I'd imagine CDS ranking on par with Cabinet Secy, but in the military hierarchy, he's outranked by the President. The President also has quasi-military powers as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed forces. That title is given so that no uniformed officer should feel that he's the absolute highest ranking officer who can get his troops to do anything. All troops across the three service branches are sufficiently taught right from the academy to regard the President as CIC.

So if tomorrow CDS tells the military "I command you to go overthrow the government" and the President says "I command you to arrest the CDS," the military is duty bound to follow their CIC.

This is why the Nehruvian "coup" fear is an Everest-sized heap of BS.

Congis were corrupt and constantly feared both public-uprisings and military-coups. The lutyen's media took care of uprisings, and a fragmented military "convinced" them that a coup won't happen.

With the institution of a CDS, the Indian Armed Forces begins to resemble the US military and PLA. It also opens up the possibility of theater-specific sub-commands, which will greatly reduce response-times to situations.

It will also make India's defence posture more "hawkish."
How would the reporting now be? Will the three service chiefs be able to apprise the political leadership without having to keep the CDS in the loop.
I can't imagine the army chief first apprising CDS and then Raksha Mantri or Pradhan Mantri.
 

Bhadra

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Yes, in the public-service order I'd imagine CDS ranking on par with Cabinet Secy, but in the military hierarchy, he's outranked by the President. The President also has quasi-military powers as Commander-in-Chief of the Armed forces. That title is given so that no uniformed officer should feel that he's the absolute highest ranking officer who can get his troops to do anything. All troops across the three service branches are sufficiently taught right from the academy to regard the President as CIC.

So if tomorrow CDS tells the military "I command you to go overthrow the government" and the President says "I command you to arrest the CDS," the military is duty bound to follow their CIC.

This is why the Nehruvian "coup" fear is an Everest-sized heap of BS.

Congis were corrupt and constantly feared both public-uprisings and military-coups. The lutyen's media took care of uprisings, and a fragmented military "convinced" them that a coup won't happen.

With the institution of a CDS, the Indian Armed Forces begins to resemble the US military and PLA. It also opens up the possibility of theater-specific sub-commands, which will greatly reduce response-times to situations.

It will also make India's defence posture more "hawkish."
Please do not discuss status issue even with a barge pole unless you want the issue to be shelved..

Lets us start with functionality part.... the importance of the institution in enhancing operation efficiency of the unavoidable integrated battle. That is where a professional is a must..

I do not mind CDS being given the status of a peon of MoD to start with but let us start. It is his functionality. the emerging situation, time and circumstances that will decide on his powers and real value. That simply will determine his status. The realist in the corridor of power specially the bureaucrats can fathom that and hence opposed to it. Politicians have no problems whatsoever.

Let us start somewhere on positive note.
 

uoftotaku

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How would the reporting now be? Will the three service chiefs be able to apprise the political leadership without having to keep the CDS in the loop.
I can't imagine the army chief first apprising CDS and then Raksha Mantri or Pradhan Mantri.
Judging from the role CDS plays in other countries, the 3 Chiefs still represent their own forces when they speak with DS or RM.

CDS is involved for strategic level affairs and seen to represent views of all forces in matters of joint or national importance.
 

tarunraju

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I think Shiv Aroor makes an interesting point: What happens to the Defence Secretary with a CDS in place? He’ll just be a departmental mandarin?
 

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