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Okabe Rintarou

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Before he became CDS:-




Not much substance to this talk. And his comments on Atmanirbharta were in the context of this conclave and in front of foreign defence attaches, so when he says "atmanirbharta does not mean foreign OEMs have no role here", I don't think we should chalk him up as being an import-lover just yet.
 

abingdonboy

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It was always going to be another IA guy because Rawat never didn’t complete his term. The next CDS will be an IAF officer for sure

people are saying he’s only appointed for being close to GoI and upset it’s another IA guy. Well that may be the case but I also think there’s another part of this. He’s just come out of a post where he was an advisor to the NSC and NSA so he’s been part of the national security architecture for a while and has been seeing a more holistic approach than service specific for a while (he retired in mid 2021) so he’s perhaps better equipped for the CDS post than a serving service General

anyway CDS is a post. It’s just important to have continuity and progress as there’s a very very long road ahead and india hasn’t even taken the first steps.
 

Javelin_Sam

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Government should appoint someone who is NOT CLOSE TO Government as CDS. That is the way to become a Suppa Powa. Very profound.
What make people think that he is close to GoI? Just because he has served as Military Advisor to NSC? Among the plethora of serving officers, if he was chosen as Military Advisor to NSA in the first place, then the man has some merit, qualities and a service record of having served at strategic theaters and of course thought process and vision aligning with GoI on self-reliance, building a domestic MIC and military modernisation. There is nothing wrong from GoI's part in selecting a man whom they know where his heart and brain is. If that is what this 'close to GoI' means, then I welcome the new CDS appointment wholeheartedly.
This is the same takleef and randi drona that was there when Gen. Bipin Rawat was selected by GoI over 2 other seniors for the post of CoAS. He proved GoI was right but the man left us midway.
If GoI was going for a serving officer, then what were the options? 1)ACM VR Chaudhary who is currently the seniormost- Somehow I don't have good feelings about him. He might be a skilled pilot and strategist but CDS post is not that. It requires someone who can come out of his service silo and constant harping of MRFA everyday. 2) Navy Chief and all others if promoted to CDS will have seniority issues cropping up that will hurt the ego of their peers with similar seniority and will find tough to push with reforms. Military bureaucracy is very rigid and hierarchical. Do not expect a pvt limited organizational culture there. That too the entire setup is new.
 

jai jaganath

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Absence of a national security strategy which NSA Ajit Doval (some call him James Pond) has failed to produce despite being tasked to define one in 2019.


Both the 1999 Kargil Review Committee and the follow up Group of Ministers had recommended Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) can augment the Army on borders but must be placed under command of the latter. CAPF were deployed on the border but never placed under command of Army because of the politico-bureaucratic nexus practicing divide and rule policy and looking down upon the Army.

To add to the continuing military degradation, the Army’s Demonetization (Phase 1) was made public on August 15, 2022 – gift for Azadi Ka Amrit Mahotsav, in that, the lead role along the 3,488 km LAC is being given to the ITBP.

Years back when news emerged of sending special troops to Afghanistan, a three-star veteran met NSA Ajit Doval recommending Army’s Special Forces be sent and if need be in ITBP uniform. But James Pond responded by saying, “My ITBP boys are as good.”
Who can forget walking in the streets like a police officer during caa protest
 

Javelin_Sam

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Absence of a national security strategy which NSA Ajit Doval (some call him James Pond) has failed to produce despite being tasked to define one in 2019.


Both the 1999 Kargil Review Committee and the follow up Group of Ministers had recommended Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) can augment the Army on borders but must be placed under command of the latter. CAPF were deployed on the border but never placed under command of Army because of the politico-bureaucratic nexus practicing divide and rule policy and looking down upon the Army.

To add to the continuing military degradation, the Army’s Demonetization (Phase 1) was made public on August 15, 2022 – gift for Azadi Ka Amrit Mahotsav, in that, the lead role along the 3,488 km LAC is being given to the ITBP.

Years back when news emerged of sending special troops to Afghanistan, a three-star veteran met NSA Ajit Doval recommending Army’s Special Forces be sent and if need be in ITBP uniform. But James Pond responded by saying, “My ITBP boys are as good.”
Nobody will place the central armed police forces under the command of Armed Forces. Not Doval, Not Modi not even Yogi(if he reaches that position)
 

ezsasa

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Absence of a national security strategy which NSA Ajit Doval (some call him James Pond) has failed to produce despite being tasked to define one in 2019.


Both the 1999 Kargil Review Committee and the follow up Group of Ministers had recommended Central Armed Police Forces (CAPF) can augment the Army on borders but must be placed under command of the latter. CAPF were deployed on the border but never placed under command of Army because of the politico-bureaucratic nexus practicing divide and rule policy and looking down upon the Army.

To add to the continuing military degradation, the Army’s Demonetization (Phase 1) was made public on August 15, 2022 – gift for Azadi Ka Amrit Mahotsav, in that, the lead role along the 3,488 km LAC is being given to the ITBP.

Years back when news emerged of sending special troops to Afghanistan, a three-star veteran met NSA Ajit Doval recommending Army’s Special Forces be sent and if need be in ITBP uniform. But James Pond responded by saying, “My ITBP boys are as good.”
If one is borrowing opinions from someone else, at least quote the author.
 

singhboy98

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Capf should come under the command of Capf only.
Not under IPS.

Major Gaurav Arya has written a very beautiful article on this.
Yep. Central Armed POLICE Forces should not be placed under the command of the Indian POLICE Services. Some unparalleled gems of knowledge are being distributed here. Advise members to partake accordingly.
 

Okabe Rintarou

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Yep. Central Armed POLICE Forces should not be placed under the command of the Indian POLICE Services. Some unparalleled gems of knowledge are being distributed here. Advise members to partake accordingly.
Don't just use semantics to dismiss a valid argument. Actually, one ex-Army member of this forum, the esteemed @Bhadra ji, was also of the same opinion that BSF and ITBP be placed under command of the Army, i.e. they be turned into a paramilitary organization instead of a police organization. And who is to say he is wrong? These two so-called "Police Organizations" count 105mm artillery guns as part of their TO&E. Which other police organization in the world does so? Looking at the kind of threats we face on our borders, what is more plausible as a force to guard our frontiers in peacetime and assist the Army in wartime? A police force or a paramilitary force? You tell me.
 

singhboy98

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Don't just use semantics to dismiss a valid argument. Actually, one ex-Army member of this forum, the esteemed @Bhadra ji, was also of the same opinion that BSF and ITBP be placed under command of the Army, i.e. they be turned into a paramilitary organization instead of a police organization. And who is to say he is wrong? These two so-called "Police Organizations" count 105mm artillery guns as part of their TO&E. Which other police organization in the world does so? Looking at the kind of threats we face on our borders, what is more plausible as a force to guard our frontiers in peacetime and assist the Army in wartime? A police force or a paramilitary force? You tell me.
Your argument is a different one and a very rational one at that. Converting some Central Police Forces into Para Military Forces integrated into the army's chain of command has been a long proposed reform by one school of thought and has been thus recommended by various reform committees as well. Regardless of my views on the subject, the idea does make some very compelling arguments for itself.

However, as long as these forces remain POLICE forces, it is a patently absurd notion that an AIS (All India Service) whose sole objective concerns policing and/or internal security of the country should be excluded from the leadership of the very organizations which help the Central Government do it irrespective of the state government (as law & order is a state subject). This was the argument I was sardonic in my reply to. This also goes on to show that 90% of DFIians don't actually know how policing works in India.
 

Jimih

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Your argument is a different one and a very rational one at that. Converting some Central Police Forces into Para Military Forces integrated into the army's chain of command has been a long proposed reform by one school of thought and has been thus recommended by various reform committees as well. Regardless of my views on the subject, the idea does make some very compelling arguments for itself.

However, as long as these forces remain POLICE forces, it is a patently absurd notion that an AIS (All India Service) whose sole objective concerns policing and/or internal security of the country should be excluded from the leadership of the very organizations which help the Central Government do it irrespective of the state government (as law & order is a state subject). This was the argument I was sardonic in my reply to. This also goes on to show that 90% of DFIians don't actually know how policing works in India.
Borders surrounding China are not settled and CAPF (especially under IPS) will not be able to hold ground once push comes to shove.

Chinese are prepared and ITBP should be firmly under IA's operational control at LAC. Policing works where there are settled borders.
 
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