CAG slams Navy for buying MiGs without weapons

p2prada

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If this was the case then two questions come to mind
1. Why was the hurry to take delivery of the aircraft if they were to remain in operational till the arrival of INS Vikramaditya?
This will answer your question along with Aces wildly long post which I never bothered to read.

Before we are able to deploy a carrier we need carrier capable pilots. Considering we don't have any carrier that can launch and retrieve conventional aircraft we make use of a land based carrier model where the pilots can practice landing and take off. We have one of only 2 present in the world.

The most important aspect of carrier aviation is the capabilities of the pilots. We need pilots with at least 2000 hours of flying before they can be trainers. We need that many hours(1000-2000 hours) for pilots to be proficient in take off and landing as well. This is possible after we take delivery of the Gorky. But just taking delivery of the AC by itself is not enough for for the carrier to be operational. We will need at least 3 to 5 years before pilots are trained enough to fly from the carrier. So, that would mean the 5 years that we gained in pilot training in Goa would be of immense benefit when they move to operational duties on the AC. The AC will be truly operational in just a few months compared to the years it would take for pilots to be ready.

This is where we have a massive lead over China. They don't have these pilots and neither the experience of operating carriers.

The initial plan was to take delivery of the Gorky along with the aircraft and then train on it. After the Gorky was delayed the make shift land based carrier platform was made. The time was spent well.

2. again if we agree to your point, it then raises questions on MOD that why did they not give this reply to the CAG for nearly 8 months.
Who knows what's happening there? It is impossible to know what they said. Let's not forget that the CAG is an audit group which can suggest changes. Whatever changes were requested whether they will be implemented or not is up to the Navy.

Weapons could have been part of the deal with delivery deferred till the carrier came. Not having weapons deal makes no sense. When will the talks on weapons purchase start and when will it actually get delivered? For all we know the fighters will be on the carrier carrying duds to practice and nothing in store to fire at the enemy.
The Russians would not agree to sell weapons to India at 2006 prices. They will ask for a new deal when the time comes. More importantly, new missiles and weapons are being made as we speak. So, if we signed the deal in 2006, we would be taking delivery of weapons that would be of previous generation and would not be acceptable to the services.

Weapons contracts can be signed reasonably quickly and deliveries can be started early. They don't have the huge gestation periods that we see with larger projects. New weapons may take time, but we know for sure the MKIs will be getting some soon, so we can be confident the Mig-29ks will not be any different.
 

ace009

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OK guys - here's Act 1 Scene 2

Russia: Hey MoD, The AC will be late - byt about 2 years.
MoD: You are joking with me right?
Russia: No joke - we have "other" priorities - our workers can't work on your projects all the time - You can get your money back if you want?
IN: No no no! We want that AC - we want it want it wanti it~!!
MoD: OK OK! hey Russia, 2 years is fine then.
Russia: Really? Hey, then we need some more money to complete it.
MoD: More money? Are you ...
IN: Please please please!
MoD: OK - how much do you need?
Russia: Ahh - say another billion?
MoD: Another billion????????
Russia: Yeah - and hey it might be 3 years instead of 2.
MoD: SHIT!
IN: ohhhhhh no - 3 more years to wait?

End Act 1 scene 2.
 

Kunal Biswas

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1. MIG-29K were the best option for the time when we were looking at Carrier bourn fighters, Rafale M was too costly..

2. R-77 BVRs are best so does the KH-35, One batch of R-77 were faulty doesn't mean all batches were faulty, MKI/MIG-29/MIG-21 use R-77 right now..

3. Vikramaditya was only option we had when we were interested to buy still its price is far lower than any other carrier to purchase..



Russian DID messed up Vikramaditya progress, But we have no choice but to go as things develops..
 

indian_sukhoi

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We can use R-77 Missiles which are already in IAF inventory for MiG-29K right. The Navy even has Derby BVR missiles for the Harriers
 

ace009

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Let me say this once more - I think we had this discussion with Chocolate by Death sometime back -
Soviet missiles had a shelf life of 5 years or so, after which they have to be recharged. The technology has been improved somewhat, but still the recharging is there.
New American missiles have a shelf life of 20-25 years without recharging.
So, old R-77s may or may not be good. The reason one batch of R-77s did not perform well, may have been because they came from old stock and the supplier forgot to recharge them. I am sure IAF knows about this limitation, but they may not have the recharging capabilities or may not know what batch the missiles belong to and when to recharge them.
 

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