Burger Boys - Deteriorating India-US Relations Under Kamala Harris

Assassin 2.0

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So which are you?
The one who thinks that nation's don't have permanent friend's or enemies just national interest.
I'm not a biased to any country as some people are which are better of lapping and pushing other's propaganda as we can see how from today's morning American indian think tanks are pushing bs.
Btw what about you tho?

Done against Romania, Croatia, Slovenia...all European NATO countries.

But then again major European states don't really have a lot of EEZ navigation rules inconsistent with UNCLOS
Never saw reports against them or new "templates"
Like I said:

"PR strategies of these Departments are independently managed and undergo changes from time to time."

What we're seeing is the latest template.
If it was a PR head this was definitely not a good time to make these stunts and GOI of india also issued a advisory to USA.
Which is also new because in past it was not done as USA used to come silently and leave now we are also uplifting our claims.

Soo all of this not some imaginary DFI fan boys wet dream's.
They're challenging the rules set by their own allies, that's the point.
Because those rules are creating differences between both allies we all know how Japan and Korean relationship is and how they have disputes on each other's land. And in previous year's USA have treated it's allies like shit backing out from agreements. Taking support from Saudi and what not.

First of all - what is the point that you have a problem with? The fact that they're conducting FONOPs in our EEZ, or that they're talking about it?

Like I said before, these PR strategies and templates change from time to time. The latest template, like my previous links show, did not start today but over a month ago. And India was by no means the first country to be addressed in these press statements
What's the problem if Pakistani or Chinese next time come into our EEZ? Why indian navy constantly chase them away.
India is not Maldives or siri lanka or lackey like SK or JP if they keep releasing these statements then they will get a reply from india too publicly and through diplomatic channels too.

[
 
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RedPumpkin

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The number of Indians who are trying to justify the unjustifiable is just amazing.

"
Oh. They have done this to their east Asian fuck buddies. Look they have done this to us in the past. See the India today graphic.
"

Now we could discuss about timings, why the burger boys did it etc but the only point that we from the defense point of view need to consider is this -

Has a foreign country breached our eez
What did we do about it

They breached eez, bragged about it & we did nothing.

If there is NAM lobby in india, burgerboys are doing a dam good job of strengthening it.

Also I wonder can an angry Karen order this?
 

Gessler

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The one who thinks that nation's don't have permanent friend's or enemies just national interest.
If you think that, then why are you acting surprised or angry? The course of action should be to understand what's the deal here. The US is the defacto global police. Their interest is to ensure that world trade & naval navigation routes remain as open as possible so that the current status-quo (which relies on the US Dollar as the currency of world trade) remains as it is.

When India rises to be at the level where US (or even China) currently is, then you can be assured that we too shall go around policing the world's oceans in our interest.

Btw what about you tho?
What do you think?

Never saw reports against them or new "templates"

If it was a PR head this was definitely not a good time to make these stunts and GOI of india also issued a advisory to USA.
Which is also new because in past it was not done as USA used to come silently and leave now we are also uplifting our claims.

Soo all of this not some imaginary DFI fan boys wet dream's.
No, like I said only the format & template has changed (expected considering "Freedom of Navigation" rhetoric has recently taken on an all-important position because of China's actions in SCS. India is by no means the specific target of this new rhetoric, but one among many countries who's claims are challenged by USN in this new format, including treaty allies). The fact that FONOPs are reported was always true - against everyone.

Here you can find the reports of FONOPs going back almost 30 years. Including against NATO allies:


MEA's retorts too were comparatively muted back in the day, tucked away in some obscure corner - but we used to retort all the same. Because regardless of UNCLOS/International Law, these passages were in violation of Indian Law. It cannot be that someone violates Indian Law (as was happening since 90s) as we decided to keep quite about it till now. Because it's the act that matters, not the statement.

It's very likely this is the first time MEA has seen this new template, and decided to comparatively increase its retort as well.

What's the problem if Pakistani or Chinese next time come into our EEZ? Why indian navy constantly chase them away.
Because they're in violation of Indian Law.
 
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tsunami

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What happens if an Indian fishing boat comes in Ships defense zone in Indian EEZ...
 

RedPumpkin

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HawkisRight

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This tanvi madam blocked me from Twitter a year ago when i called her opinionated murican shill... irony of ironies...these bhartiya Librandus are always Darbari they just change d parties to russi,chini,muriki depending upon currency... Funnily she is very active advocate of Freedom of speech and vocal critic of mudi baba But can't take herself being called a shill on twitter :laugh: :shoot:... bhartiya Librandus are such a spineless swines masquerading as intellectual think tank experts and what not
 

shade

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This tanvi madam blocked me from Twitter a year ago when i called her opinionated murican shill... irony of ironies...these bhartiya Librandus are always Darbari they just change d parties to russi,chini,muriki depending upon currency... Funnily she is very active advocate of Freedom of speech and vocal critic of mudi baba But can't take herself being called a shill on twitter :laugh: :shoot:... bhartiya Librandus are such a spineless swines masquerading as intellectual think tank experts and what not
They are the same world wide, except in Muslim countries where the shadow of the sword keeps them in check.
btw any opinions of that takla Iyer-Mitra on this?
 

ezsasa

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If you think that, then why are you acting surprised or angry? The course of action should be to understand what's the deal here. The US is the defacto global police. Their interest is to ensure that world trade & naval navigation routes remain as open as possible so that the current status-quo (which relies on the US Dollar as the currency of world trade) remains as it is.

When India rises to be at the level where US (or even China) currently is, then you can be assured that we too shall go around policing the world's oceans in our interest.



What do you think?



No, like I said only the format & template has changed (expected considering "Freedom of Navigation" rhetoric has recently taken on an all-important position because of China's actions in SCS. India is by no means the specific target of this new rhetoric, but one among many countries who's claims are challenged by USN in this new format, including treaty allies). The fact that FONOPs are reported was always true - against everyone.

Here you can find the reports of FONOPs going back almost 30 years. Including against NATO allies:


MEA's retorts too were comparatively muted back in the day, tucked away in some obscure corner - but we used to retort all the same. Because regardless of UNCLOS/International Law, these passages were in violation of Indian Law. It cannot be that someone violates Indian Law (as was happening since 90s) as we decided to keep quite about it till now. Because it's the act that matters, not the statement.

It's very likely this is the first time MEA has seen this new template, and decided to comparatively increase its retort as well.



Because they're in violation of Indian Law.
let me give another angle to the discourse surrounding this incident .

Argument could be made, this discourse is a symptom of the churn that is happening in the world right now. when murican strategists themselves are saying balance of power is about to shift to Asia in this century, with a new competitor arising of out of Asia i.e CCP.

with this being the back ground, it’s upto the muricans to decide whether strategies they adopted towards end of Cold War 1.0 are still valid. It’s upto them to decide whether they will continue to sit on a high horse or revaluation their strategies.

Let’s keep in mind, this FONOP thing is happening mostly because republicans and democrats are not able to arrive at a consensus on UNCLOS. pentagon taking advantage of domestic political non-consensus is an afterthought being masquerading as a some sort of “righteous obligation to uphold freedom of navigation”.

Side note: this whole issue only about military vessels not cargo ships, cargo ships are free to move in EEZs.
 

Assassin 2.0

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This tanvi madam blocked me from Twitter a year ago when i called her opinionated murican shill... irony of ironies...these bhartiya Librandus are always Darbari they just change d parties to russi,chini,muriki depending upon currency... Funnily she is very active advocate of Freedom of speech and vocal critic of mudi baba But can't take herself being called a shill on twitter :laugh: :shoot:... bhartiya Librandus are such a spineless swines masquerading as intellectual think tank experts and what not
I like only 3 think tank experts one our very own @ezsasa prabhu dayal and saurav jha.
 

sorcerer

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Looks like they didn't expect it to spiral out of control in India, like how it became a controversy then government had to issue a statement.


INNOCENT PASSAGE ..that ass knows hes lying.

The MEA in its statement said: "India's stated position on the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) is that the Convention does not authorise other states to carry out in the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and on the continental shelf, military exercises or manoeuvres, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives, without the consent of the coastal state.

This is americans trying their usual walk over like they do in phil, afghanistan, pakistan etc in Indian backyard..
They are slowly rotting the resistance..like they did with their friends in Eurape and elsewhere...so that umricunts can perform unilateral actions and justify it by lying as they always do.

Now..americans are brining in Maldives trying to create a confusion if its Indian zone or as of Maldives.

THe result is..if tomorrow china violates it..it will become another FUBAR..
We cant have one rule for USA and one rule for china.. china will make a lot of noise on this.

WIth Umricunts tresspassing, they created a messup for Indian security scenario for the future.

As we always say on this forum...Never ever ever trust America..
GOod that we dont do big ticket fighter deals with these retards~!
 

ezsasa

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With USA India has to watch out for the INACTIONS of umricunts against china than ACTIONS.
Actions will get media attention..whereas the INACTION..nobody talks about.
This is one of the reasons I had created this paradigm test few months back, for people to use.

in the latest fiasco about EEZ, this paradigm becomes valid..

Let's test out a theory since it is early days in the new murican administration, we get to make observations afresh. lots of stuff will be happening around the world some relevant mostly irrelevant. since CCP is on our minds these days, we could test out probable causes of relevant/interesting events against a proposed theory or paradigm.

I propose a paradigm "Any country that has ongoing unresolved issue with CCP, will be at the receiving end of American administration directly or thru their various instruments of their foreign policy"

Answer will be either "Valid" or "Invalid" .

For example :
1) Current Australian govt has an issue with CCP, but google has threatened Australia. In this scenario paradigm gets "Valid", because google is an instrument of murican foreign policy.
2) Taiwan has a historical problem with CCP, but murican administration starts recognising Taiwan. In this scenario, paradigm is "Invalid".

No hurry, we can test it out for years to come. if anyone is interested in improving it further, you are welcome, but objective is to measure an event in simple binary.
 

sorcerer

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India maintains an information fusion center and has given access to partner nations.
They know what zone is what and USA doesnt have to show india about navigational freedom.

America just created a security issue for EEZ..in future..china could also claim these rights and loiter around our premises.

With fraaandz like america who needs enemies.
biden is whoring himself much for china.
 

sorcerer

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The 7th Fleet Statement Shows Just One Thing—United States’ Stupidity


Amidst all the breast-beating and wailing in the Indian media, generated by the utterly intemperate, unnecessary and downright unintelligent statement of the 7th Fleet that on April 7, 2021, the USS John Paul Jones, an Arleigh Burke Class-guided missile destroyer (DDG) of the US Navy, passed through India’s Exclusive Economic Zone, 130 nautical miles west of the Lakshadweep Islands, on a Freedom of Navigation (FoN) patrol, the following points should be borne in mind:

* The USA’s Freedom of Navigation Programme involves the US Department of State (the US equivalent of our own MEA) and the US Department of Defence (the US equivalent of our own MoD).

* The US Department of State concentrates on that segment of the FoN Programme that involves diplomatic measures, such as lodging protests and rendering advice.

* The US Department of Defence, using the instruments of the US Navy and the US Coast Guard (the latter unlike the case in India is a full-fledged part of the USA’s defence services/armed forces—in fact, it is the oldest of the lot), concentrates on the Freedom of Navigation Operations (FONOPS) and related capability-enhancement activities, such as the provision of legal training in the nuances of public international maritime law, as also operational training such as the conduct of table-top exercises, wargaming and at-sea exercises.

* One of the main reasons why FONOPS are conducted is to prevent “excessive” claims that could place restrictions on the freedoms of navigation and overflight so that they remain unchallenged and acquire the status of customary international law.

* FONOPS have been implemented with regularity at least since 1979, but are generally kept low-key, which is why they have seldom attracted much attention.

* Details of FONOPs undertaken each year are formally presented to the US Congress in an “Annual Freedom of Navigation Report.” These are freely and readily available on the internet, from 1981 to-date. A perusal of these reports will show that FONOPS against India (and also, amongst others, against Bangladesh, Maldives, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, etc.) have been a regular feature, right from 1981, without any of the present brouhaha. Clearly, several of these countries are acknowledged partners.

# Therefore, any emotive conclusion that India has been cast among countries inimical to the US interests may require to be jettisoned.

# For the most part, these FONOPS have challenged the following aspects of what the US considers to be “excessive” claims:

# Prior consent required for military exercises or manoeuvres within the EEZ, in particular those involving the use of weapons or explosives (this is a formal legally well-founded declaration made by India upon ratification of the 1982 UNCLOS, on June 29, 1995).

# India’s requirement for prior notification for foreign warships to enter its territorial sea, including while exercising the right of innocent passage.

# FONOPS are not primarily meant to demonstrate USA’s ‘deterrent-capability’ or ‘resolve’, nor are they designed to reassure allies of the US support.

The 1982 UNCLOS has several residual ambiguities. For instance, the ‘High Seas’ are defined as waters lying seawards of the outer limit of the Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). However, ‘high-seas freedoms’—of navigation and overflight, the laying of submarine cables & pipelines, the construction of artificial islands and other permissible installations, the conduct of scientific research, etc.—exist in waters seaward of the ‘Territorial Sea’.



US can be dumb...but India is not.
India should be very careful about having retard friends!
 

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