Buddha was a Scythian Arian of Budins in Ancient Ukraine: Scholar

niharjhatn

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1) Many words in Sanskrit look and sound just like many Ukrainian and Russian words.
Whilst this is hardly any justification, but latin and sanskrit derive from the same proto-indoeuropean language tree. Links based on language cannot be denied, with even words like yoga drawing similarities with latin words like jugum, the predecessor for the word 'yoke' - all based on the concept of unity and drawing things together.


But claiming Buddha = ukranian is ridiculous :pound:
His name originally was Siddhattha Gautam - does that sound very ukranian??
 

lodaxstax

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I've read a lot of other stuff from Ukranian nationalists - about how Ramayana is Ukranian etc.

This stuff is quite similar to some of the articles published by RSS ideologues.
could you share some of those.

thanks
 

kranshteun

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I have been influenced by personal experience. I am no stranger to Kyiv, its economics, or its women. Wages and living conditions are rather pathetic, even for an Eastern European country. Single mothers/women are everywhere, living in one room flats where electricity is considered a luxury. I have been approached by so many I lost count. You show them a good time, try to avoid conversation about their life and never ask for them to take you home, go to your hotel. They will reward you... just watch out for those looking to have your baby. I actually have argued about them not wanting me to use a rubber... I was like, you are CRAZY! The economics are so bad it is really sad how defeated so many are... they are a good people.



French is the official language in 30 countries and 14 territories. We do not half to dream of our mark on the world, evidence is all around us. Ukraine's military only recently stopped using Russian as the operational language.
What you say is true. The problems in Ukraine and in Russia are related to ghe Soviet Union legacy, or the legacy of its fall. It is no secret that Russian policy is to make life in Ukraine as bad as possible by intervention of capital and buying of land, bribes and political extortion. On the other hand, many people in Ukraine are finding their feet and ways to live and make bread. Single women, poor people, bad flats and no electrisity is all connetcted to the fall of Soviet Union and the present political situation. In fact Russia has the same problem, it is just that they have a larger population. I can tell you that I lived in USA for a while, and here are so many single women with children(mostly black) very poor and uneducated, that I was shocked. That does not change the facts but it does put things into perspective. At list we have a classical education that is still free in Ukraine. And that is what separates our poore people from the ones in the west - we are still better educated, just no ways to use that education in a bad and corrupted economy.
All that being said, I just want to add, that the problems between Russia and Ukraine go back a long way into the darkness of History. Mind one thing: Ukraine was never conquered by Russia, or as it was then called the "Moskovy State". Ukraine is just the name of a political institution that stuck with us. Our real name is Kievan Russ and modern Ukraine has more rights to be called Russia or Rus than Moscow has. More than 60% of Russian population has nothing to do with Slavs, Scythians or Soviet achivements. But let me stop here, becuase this is a forum of Defence of India and not fighting place of Russians and us:)
P. S. Buddha was no doubt born and brought up as an Indian and not as Indo European or Arian. The other gentleman said that pretty good - the change was complete, and the nations that were once one were separated by culture and nature.
Best regards!
 
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civfanatic

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All that being said, I just want to add, that the problems between Russia and Ukraine go back a long way into the darkness of History. Mind one thing: Ukraine was never conquered by Russia, or as it was then called the "Moskovy State". Ukraine is just the name of a political institution that stuck with us. Our real name is Kievan Russ and modern Ukraine has more rights to be called Russia or Rus than Moscow has.
The name "Ukraine" means "border" in Russian, correct? Is this the same name that Ukrainians use to refer to their own country, or do you use a different name? It's just like how "India" is a Western name for this country; no ancient Indian ever called himself "Indian".

I have also heard this saying: Moscow is the heart of Russia, but Kiev is its mother!
 

Armand2REP

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What you say is true. The problems in Ukraine and in Russia are related to ghe Soviet Union legacy, or the legacy of its fall. It is no secret that Russian policy is to make life in Ukraine as bad as possible by intervention of capital and buying of land, bribes and political extortion. On the other hand, many people in Ukraine are finding their feet and ways to live and make bread. Single women, poor people, bad flats and no electrisity is all connetcted to the fall of Soviet Union and the present political situation. In fact Russia has the same problem, it is just that they have a larger population.
Don't blame Russia for your problems. The USSR left you with a very good industrial legacy and means of production to get off on your own, more so than any FSU state. Ukraine has been walking on the fence between EU and Russian economic policy goals since independence. Ukraine is poor because it is corrupt, crumbling infrastructure, lack of investment, and innovation. It is basically Russia without oil... it relies on gas transit for much of its revenues but doesn't provide anything compared to Russian social spending.

I can tell you that I lived in USA for a while, and here are so many single women with children(mostly black) very poor and uneducated, that I was shocked. That does not change the facts but it does put things into perspective. At list we have a classical education that is still free in Ukraine. And that is what separates our poore people from the ones in the west - we are still better educated, just no ways to use that education in a bad and corrupted economy.
What good is an education without a job? At least blacks in USA get welfare cheques that provide a living far better than Ukraine. Russians have it twice as good.

All that being said, I just want to add, that the problems between Russia and Ukraine go back a long way into the darkness of History. Mind one thing: Ukraine was never conquered by Russia, or as it was then called the "Moskovy State". Ukraine is just the name of a political institution that stuck with us. Our real name is Kievan Russ and modern Ukraine has more rights to be called Russia or Rus than Moscow has. More than 60% of Russian population has nothing to do with Slavs, Scythians or Soviet achivements. But let me stop here, becuase this is a forum of Defence of India and not fighting place of Russians and us:)
Ukraine was never conquered because there was no such thing as Ukraine to conquer. You have always been part and split by one empire or another. Which is why these Pan-Ukrainian nut jobs start spouting BS about Buddha. No reason for you to start spouting BS about Rus when Kyiv Rus was founded by the prince of Novgorod. 80% of Russians are Slavs, the Ossetians are the only ones who can claim anything from the Scythians and they too are in Russia. Ukrainophiles can go ahead and spout whatever revisionist history they like, it doesn't make it truth.
 

GPM

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Buddha was a Scythian Arian of Budins in Ancient Ukraine: scholar

Moscow, Mar 15 : Valery Bebik, a prominent scholar of political science in the former Soviet Republic of Ukraine, has claimed that Buddha, the founder of Buddhism, belonged to the Scythian nation of Budins that lived on the territory of Ancient Ukraine during the first or second millennium B C.

Bebik has published the sensational article in the official newspaper of the Ukrainian Parliament, 'The Voice of Ukraine.' Bebik is Doctor of Political Sciences, a professor, deputy principal of Ukraine University, the chairman of the board of the All-Ukrainian Association of Political Sciences.

''It is quite possible that Buddha belonged to the Scythian nation of Budins that lived on the territory of Ancient Ukraine during the first or the second millennium BC. The name of the nation is still preserved in the names of Ukraine�s contemporary settlements-Seredina-Buda, Buda, and some others,'' he said.

''Everything is clear from the ethnic point of view. Buddha was a Scythian Arian, a member of the Budin tribe. The descendants of the tribe still live in the Sumsky and the Chernigov region of Ukraine, as well as on the neighbouring lands of Belarus and Russia,'' he said.

Bebik earlier also published a number of his articles in the official newspaper of the Ukrainian Parliament.

He wrote his previous articles for the paper to 'prove' the remarkable role of the Ukrainian civilization, which endowed the world with spiritual enlightenment, outstanding prophets, philosophers and leaders.

In 2008-2009, the Ukrainian professor shared his amazing observations of Ancient Egypt, Ancient Greece and the ethnic origin of Jesus Christ.

''The name of Egypt's major temple, Het-ka-Ptah, sounds very much like Ukrainian words 'hata' and 'ptaha' ('house' and 'bird').

The pictures on the Egyptian pyramids show that Egyptian queens were blonde women with blue eyes, just like many Ukrainian women. One should also pay attention to the fact that the trident, which is currently the minor national emblem of Ukraine, can often be seen there too,'' he wrote.

''We have already outlined the facts that placed in question the official, the church version of the ethnic origin and the Biblical dates of the life of Jesus Christ and the historical epoch, in which the basis of Christianity was formed. It looks like Christ actually lived 3,000 years before his canonical birth and spoke the Coptic language, which is a close language to the ancestors of contemporary Ukrainians,'' the scholar wrote.

--- UNI
Of course it is no secret that Gautam belonged to the kshatriya clan known as Shakya. He is also known as Shakya Muni. It matters least if his very distant ancestors came from Ukraine or Timbktu. But it may be noted they MUST have come centuries before the birth of Gautam.

Buddha is not a very new title or name. In a distant past a sage Buddha was born, and planet Mercury is named after him as Buddha. He was a son of Surya. Buddha, prabuddha mean who is "aware". Buddhi means intellect. Do you know that Skakyas traced their lineage to Ikshavakus of Ayodhya?

first or second millennium B C?? Haha. First is too late. By the time Gautam was born, Shakya clan was well known in India. Second stretches back to 2000 BCE. A time window of more than a thousand years? What sort of history is this. History or his story?

A good story for children.
 
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GPM

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When are Indians going to shed the burden of European Indologists? When will our Marxist "historians" ever see that that Aryan Invasion Theory was refuted a century ago and buried finally? But read Romila Thapars. You see AIT. What else do they say? Not muslim invasions, but advent of islam in India!!! Haha. Ghazanavi never destroyed and plundered Hindu temples of Mathura or Somnath!! Hindus diddit and blamed the peacenik muslims. Whatever little good you see in India or Hindus was imported from muslims and earlier, much earlier by Aryan invaders.


Sanskrit originated outside and Vedas too were imported. Haha. NOMADIC, barbarian Aryans brought AGRICULTURE!! Find a bigger idiotic statement. But, oh yes, there is a bigger idiocy too!! Muslims brought IRRIGATION to India. Lols. imagine waterless desert Arabia having mega irrigation projects!! Irrigation cannot be developed by those cultures who are not agrarians? Irrigation by muslims conjures up spawling green field covering Arabia, Iraq etc? Not so. Euphrate floods brought silt and moisture to fields in Iraq. Yet controlled irrigation is quite old in India!!
 

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Don't blame Russia for your problems. The USSR left you with a very good industrial legacy and means of production to get off on your own, more so than any FSU state. Ukraine has been walking on the fence between EU and Russian economic policy goals since independence. Ukraine is poor because it is corrupt, crumbling infrastructure, lack of investment, and innovation. It is basically Russia without oil... it relies on gas transit for much of its revenues but doesn't provide anything compared to Russian social spending.



What good is an education without a job? At least blacks in USA get welfare cheques that provide a living far better than Ukraine. Russians have it twice as good.



Ukraine was never conquered because there was no such thing as Ukraine to conquer. You have always been part and split by one empire or another. Which is why these Pan-Ukrainian nut jobs start spouting BS about Buddha. No reason for you to start spouting BS about Rus when Kyiv Rus was founded by the prince of Novgorod. 80% of Russians are Slavs, the Ossetians are the only ones who can claim anything from the Scythians and they too are in Russia. Ukrainophiles can go ahead and spout whatever revisionist history they like, it doesn't make it truth.[/QUOTE

Many things that you said are 100% not true. They are a general information mostly provided by pro-Russian or Russian propoganda. I am not going to go in to a detailed protest describing what versions of your truth are not true. I will just say that your History knwoledge is limited to general sourses. I am not a Ukrainian Odds singing patriot. I studied the history in three different parts of the world: Soviet Union, Free Ukraine after the fall of USSR and in USA. That gives me a much broader perepective about things.
Before you write your nex response, I sugest you start by researching word Ukraina outside of general sourses and you will see it has nothing to do with "Border", it does so for those who are influenced by Russian propoganda. And by the way, the only place where Russians have good living is inside Moscow, the rest of the country is as poore and sometimes worse off than Ukraine.
 

Armand2REP

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Many things that you said are 100% not true. They are a general information mostly provided by pro-Russian or Russian propoganda. I am not going to go in to a detailed protest describing what versions of your truth are not true. I will just say that your History knwoledge is limited to general sourses. I am not a Ukrainian Odds singing patriot. I studied the history in three different parts of the world: Soviet Union, Free Ukraine after the fall of USSR and in USA. That gives me a much broader perepective about things.
Before you write your nex response, I sugest you start by researching word Ukraina outside of general sourses and you will see it has nothing to do with "Border", it does so for those who are influenced by Russian propoganda. And by the way, the only place where Russians have good living is inside Moscow, the rest of the country is as poore and sometimes worse off than Ukraine.
Everything I said is untrue yet you can't refute any of it? Da zdravstvuet Ukraina! :pound:
 

kranshteun

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My friend, I am too tired of proving something I know is true. I have talked about these things with so many people who only look on the surface of things and never bellow. First of all I do not know what is your interest in such conversations? What makes you write things about Ukraine, things that are a clear example of Russia Influenced propaganda?
Just to get you on the right track: Ukraine is just the name of Political Institution and has nothing to do with the peoples history. After the 1648 Kievshina (lands of today's central, eastern and some western parts of Ukraine) made a treaty with Russian King, a treaty of Unification and military cooperation. How can you say then that Ukraine was never a country and never existed? It was a country with strong military force, trade, culture and its own language - but it was not a Ukraine in a way we know her today, but the people who lived there are our ancestors. When Kievan Rus (ancient name for Ukraine) was trading with the whole world and the Byzantine Emperor used to come to the boats to meet our King personally, there was no Russian state, there was no Moscow. What you must understand is that nations go through changes and the names change but the people and their culture carries its legacy no matter how you call them, Ukraine or Kiev Rus, or Kievshina.
Best regards!
 

pmaitra

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My friend, I am too tired of proving something I know is true. I have talked about these things with so many people who only look on the surface of things and never bellow. First of all I do not know what is your interest in such conversations? What makes you write things about Ukraine, things that are a clear example of Russia Influenced propaganda?
Just to get you on the right track: Ukraine is just the name of Political Institution and has nothing to do with the peoples history. After the 1648 Kievshina (lands of today's central, eastern and some western parts of Ukraine) made a treaty with Russian King, a treaty of Unification and military cooperation. How can you say then that Ukraine was never a country and never existed? It was a country with strong military force, trade, culture and its own language - but it was not a Ukraine in a way we know her today, but the people who lived there are our ancestors. When Kievan Rus (ancient name for Ukraine) was trading with the whole world and the Byzantine Emperor used to come to the boats to meet our King personally, there was no Russian state, there was no Moscow. What you must understand is that nations go through changes and the names change but the people and their culture carries its legacy no matter how you call them, Ukraine or Kiev Rus, or Kievshina.
Best regards!
Two questions:
  • Does not the word 'Ukraine' mean 'the borderlands'?
  • Do not the terms 'Kievan Rus' and 'Russia' have a common cognitive, 'Rus'?
 
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Armand2REP

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My friend, I am too tired of proving something I know is true.
You haven't proven anything.

I have talked about these things with so many people who only look on the surface of things and never bellow. First of all I do not know what is your interest in such conversations? What makes you write things about Ukraine, things that are a clear example of Russia Influenced propaganda?
Do I care what you talk about before you come here... no. What difference do my interests make? Seems I know more of Ukraine than yourself. Next you will tell us Ukraina has one of the top ten militaries in the world. :pound:

Just to get you on the right track: Ukraine is just the name of Political Institution and has nothing to do with the peoples history. After the 1648 Kievshina (lands of today's central, eastern and some western parts of Ukraine) made a treaty with Russian King, a treaty of Unification and military cooperation. How can you say then that Ukraine was never a country and never existed? It was a country with strong military force, trade, culture and its own language - but it was not a Ukraine in a way we know her today, but the people who lived there are our ancestors. When Kievan Rus (ancient name for Ukraine) was trading with the whole world and the Byzantine Emperor used to come to the boats to meet our King personally, there was no Russian state, there was no Moscow. What you must understand is that nations go through changes and the names change but the people and their culture carries its legacy no matter how you call them, Ukraine or Kiev Rus, or Kievshina.
The Hetmanate was certainly never a country. It was a suzerainty of Moskovy. In fact, its founder even called it Hosudarstvo Rosiyske, the Russian State. It had no say in its foreign policy as the territory was split with the Treaty of Andrusovo between Russia and Poland, no representative of the Cossacks were even present. To add to the absurdity of your claim, the official language was Polish as well as the currency. The Ottomans occupied Right Bank for half its existence. You must learn that you are not a state until you choose your currency, own language, and set your own foreign policy.
 

kranshteun

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Listen, I came to this forum to talk about Scythians, Arians and the India, instead you provoked me to this conversation and are becoming an encreasingly hostyle. Are you a Russian payed agaent? Came to start something? We can argue back and forth about the History of my country. What is your point?
 

kranshteun

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You haven't proven anything.



Do I care what you talk about before you come here... no. What difference do my interests make? Seems I know more of Ukraine than yourself. Next you will tell us Ukraina has one of the top ten militaries in the world. :pound:



The Hetmanate was certainly never a country. It was a suzerainty of Moskovy. In fact, its founder even called it Hosudarstvo Rosiyske, the Russian State. It had no say in its foreign policy as the territory was split with the Treaty of Andrusovo between Russia and Poland, no representative of the Cossacks were even present. To add to the absurdity of your claim, the official language was Polish as well as the currency. The Ottomans occupied Right Bank for half its existence. You must learn that you are not a state until you choose your currency, own language, and set your own foreign policy.
Do you want me to start writing things about French history that you are not going to like? Are you even French? If you go back to my first post and read it carefully, you will see that I was talking about the ancient history and did not connect anything to modern Ukraine. So you are barking and the wrong tree for no good reason, unless you have a reason and that is why I asked you what is your angle in such discussion.
And by the way, why could not you have found easy women in France? You have plenty of prostitutes and poor cheap ladies on call there? Is that the kind of conversation you are provoking
 

pmaitra

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Listen, I came to this forum to talk about Scythians, Arians and the India, instead you provoked me to this conversation and are becoming an encreasingly hostyle. Are you a Russian payed agaent? Came to start something? We can argue back and forth about the History of my country. What is your point?
Kranshteun,

I am not sure who that was intended for.

I do understand that some people in Ukraine want to have an identity independent of Russia while some people in Ukraine identify themselves as Russian. I just happen to know people from both sides and I have heard arguments from both sides.

I would like to know your side of the interpretation or representation of history.

I do not promise to agree or disagree with you. I might present counterarguments just to see how sound these counterarguments are. Of course, the eventual interpretation is best left to the individual.
 

kranshteun

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Here is how Ukraine is written in Ukrainian or Russian "Украина", "Краина" means country in Ukrainian," У " means "in" . In Russian it is all different, "in" in Russian is "в", like v, country in Russian is "страна". Borderland is written like that "Окраина" in Russian and in Ukrainian it is a different word.
Yes Rus is the same Rus in Kievan Rus. Before the Mongol invasion, if there was ever an invasion the subject is still disputed, the Rus world was split up in to many kingdomes, some small and some large and powerful. All had same religion and all had similar labguages. After the Monogl Invasion the southern Rus Lands (Modern Ukraine) became weaker and the power shifted to the north, where Moscow was on the rise. The lands of Kievan Rus were split up. It is a long story, which you can read for yourself, but the bottom line is that only pro-russian or polish propagandists say that there was no Ukraine and we had no language. It is just a misrepresentation of facts. Sure our nation had a complicated history, but our people managed to survive and now have a right to be free in our own country and speaking our own language.
 

kranshteun

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No problem, but I say it again, I did not come here to talk about Ukraine and her history. I have had plenty of talks with people like Armund who only know general facts but know no history. I really do not like talking about it simply because subject is too massive just for a chat or a forum. I am an old fassioned person, I like and prefer a face to face talk, only then can people really connect and understand each other. And once again I came on this forum to talk about the history of ancient migrations and different nations of the past who are connected to India or Scythians or Arians. I am not doing it to connect the present Ukraine to that subject. I hope you understand this.
 

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