Britain may sell its Aircraft Carrier to India

[icecoolben]

The best v can get from britain is leasing an invincible class carrier for 5-6 years immediately until our indigenous carrier joins our force. V are required to not lose carrier aviation experience. For which this route is better than buying an elizabeth class ship. Further this would place the russians in hot steam and give us leverage to arm twist moscow vis-a-vis goskov negotiation and ram unnecessary, excessive prices down russian throat. V would have a better negotiating position since v would not be as desperate as before. Even if goskov deal fell by the wayside v would have the option of extending the lease and may be buy the new carrier if needed. In any case, i don't see the new carrier seeing indian shores except for joint exercises.
For proponents of kitty hawk, its a whole new carrier with different set of operations. So japan or india leasing it for training would be better than buying it.

 

[Yusuf]

If offered, India should climb all over it. We are still quite sometime away from getting our own super carriers. A refit Gorshky is going to cost us upward of 3 billion. A brand new super carrier at 5 billion aint that bad either. India will obviously bargain and the British will come down if they are desperate to sell. If it can be bought at about 4+, i think its a good deal. So we have our own ADS coming along with the Vikramaditya and this British Carrier about the same time. So we have three fully operational carriers plus more ADSs to come.

 

[badguy2000]

such a jeep AC is more like a token than a real tool....

 

[p2prada]

We won't be buying this one anytime soon. The IA and IAF will not allow the purchase of Elizabeth class carrier until the Navy is capable of fielding a larger number of offensive ships like Frigates and Destroyers, not to mention SSNs. Such a large carrier will be a sitting duck for terrorist attacks and during war. We don't want front yard ornaments in the Navy as of now. This is the very reason why the new carriers will be called Air Defence Ship and not Aircraft Carrier which is the normal designation. The IAF will lobby against it.

Even the American carriers are heavily dependent on its support ships to sanitize the area it is headed to. The sanitized area is something like 250sq km. It means the area should be clear of under sea mines and any other civilian and military ships of any country.

Lastly, none of our ports will be able to berth the ship atleast until the end of the next decade. By then we will be building our own large ACs.

We can take a look at it after 2015.

 

[EnlightenedMonk]

such a jeep AC is more like a token than a real tool....

Please explain your utter ignorance !!!

 

[Yusuf]

P2P, the timeline for the QV class carrier is 2018. I think its withing Indian reach esp with the other surface combatants planned.

Added later:- also p2p, it was called air defense ship first when it was projected to be a 20,000 tons ship. It has now grown to a 40,000 tons displcement ship with 30 ACs on it. Also the term ADS was used by the navy to beat off any IAF objections.

 

[bhramos]

by the 2018 we will be having atleast 3 carriers[ 1 INS Vikramaditya + 2 Vikrant class] so why do we need 4th. 2 will be operational and 3rd for maintaince,

 

[Yusuf]

India is looking at super carriers after the ADS series. So we have a jump start as far as the super carriers are concerned. But all boils down to staff requirement. If the rumors of Kitty Hawk were true, then there is definitely scope for the sup carrier in IN.

 

[prahladh]

By 2020 will IN have enough assets ( CBG ) to protect these carriers including this one if bought.

 

[icecoolben]

Leasing hms invincible with a complement of sea harriers till our indigenous carrier

The best v can get from britain is leasing an invincible class carrier for 5-6 years immediately until our indigenous carrier joins our force. V are required to not lose carrier aviation experience. For which this route is better than buying an elizabeth class ship. Further this would place the russians in hot steam and give us leverage to arm twist moscow vis-a-vis goskov negotiation and ram unnecessary, excessive prices down russian throat. V would have a better negotiating position since v would not be as desperate as before. Even if goskov deal fell by the wayside v would have the option of extending the lease and may be buy the new carrier if needed. In any case, i don't see the new carrier seeing indian shores except for joint exercises.
For proponents of kitty hawk, its a whole new carrier with different set of operations. So japan or india leasing it for training would be better than buying it.

what do u guys think of my previous proposal to lease invincible class carrier, along with complement of harriers till our indigenous carrier joins our force may be by 2014 earliest, 2016- worst delay.
the issue that v are speculating on is an editorial in a think tank, so its just western nations trying to sour indo-russian relations regarding goskov classic example of pouring oil over burning fire, if the british were so eager to assist our carrier ambitions lease the moth-balled hms invincible that solves our immediate problem, that would put us on a better bargaining position against russia.

A friend in need is a friend indeed.

 

[thakur_ritesh]

2016 is the time line for the AC to come into service, if bought this is going to be one hell of a buy.

if we average out our defence budget to grow by 10(odd)% for the next few years, the defence budget by 2016 would be hovering around 55b usd considering there is no appreciation in the value of rupee, so cost wise i doubt it will be that big a headache for the MoD.

as for the cvbg, there are enough ships on cards to fill the gap as has been suggested above.

from the looks of it, it certainly looks like a gamble worth taking, another point to be noted is that it is india which has lodged an "expression of interest", and this would have not been possible without the IN on board.

 

[Yusuf]

Ice, why go for something that britain is looking to phase out when they are offering something that's going to serve them in the future?

Leasing the invincible is useless. We already have the refitted virat with harriers. We need to look forward and not back. With the mrca deal which will either be the super hornet or the mig 35, both carrier capable, the mig 35, being an upgrade of the 29 series that india has already ordered, the QE class will suit just fine with these ACs.

 

[amitkriit]

Ice, why go for something that britain is looking to phase out when they are offering something that's going to serve them in the future?

Leasing the invincible is useless. We already have the refitted virat with harriers. We need to look forward and not back. With the mrca deal which will either be the super hornet or the mig 35, both carrier capable, the mig 35, being an upgrade of the 29 series that india has already ordered, the QE class will suit just fine with these ACs.

India must concentrate on indigenous AC project even if it takes some time. Virat can fulfil our strategic requirements for a few years to come.

 

[icecoolben]

Why finance foreign carriers and wait when v can build our own.

India must concentrate on indigenous AC project even if it takes some time. Virat can fulfil our strategic requirements for a few years to come.

we have already got ourselves into a shit hole trying to buy up goskov. Lets not get our other foot stuck too going for the elizabeth class. V operate a creeky old virat thats 60 years old, compare it to hms invincible which was commissioned in 1975, it would do well to serve us even if v it bought for another 15 years, there would be no major technological hurdles over our present centaur class virat. Virat has been projected a 5 years retirement extension by the re-fit, if v try to operate it beyond that there is every chance that the ship's propulsion might fail mid ocean, a structural failure of the hull would be a major embarrasment on world stage and our naval preparedness would be the laughing stock among military circles, for what its worth virat would do well to be retired in 4-5 years and no more extensions. If goskov gets stuck and our indigenous carrier gets delayed again, which is very much seems to be the case. It would be even more tedious to face growing naval chinese expansion.

lets look in the light of the invincible proposal. i'm not even asking to buy the ship lease it for ten years, that would give us time to build two indigenous carriers, retire virat with proper honours and give our diplomats enough leverage to extract favourable terms on pricing from russia for the goskov carrier re-fits. V have good number of harriers and some leased from royal navy's ships ark royal and illustrious would not hurt their capability, especially since they are going for f-35. This is more pragmatic, economic and beneficial to india than buying more brand new carriers from abroad.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

If we did buy this what will happen to the gorshokov deal? This is a clever attempt to slowly gain a foothold into the Indian defense market even if we don't buy it is a symbolic gesture, I wonder if any plane in the MRCA has anything to do with this offer.

 

[icecoolben]

$ 4 billion minimum project ship is too much, don't anyone not wish to see our budgets bleed at the costs of foreign interests.
The minute goskov costs shot up exponentially v should have called off the deal, we are preparing for another goskov fiasco now with britain. Their supply of hawk trainers should remind us the stark nature of their military industrial complex. Its better to buy american or french than british, who don't have the budget to support their own programs and home industry.

 

[icecoolben]

If we did buy this what will happen to the gorshokov deal? This is a clever attempt to slowly gain a foothold into the Indian defense market even if we don't buy it is a symbolic gesture, I wonder if any plane in the MRCA has anything to do with this offer.

atleast someone seems to think through the deal as i did, i thought so why not call the british bluff to lease their moth-balled carrier hms invincible to meet our immediate needs on virat retirement, goskov, and wait for indigenous carrier.
As for mmrca could be ploy to sell euro-fighter since bae systems is marketing it. And the fighter does not provide anything exclusive regarding technology transfer to build the fighter from ground up that mig-35, rafale, gripen can. But i wouldn't want to deal with bae till they fix our hawk trainer problem.

 

[Soham]

I find it to be a rather good deal.
But what aircrafts would we plan to use ?

 

[VayuSena1]

no we may not go F-35's
if we did it Indigenious MCA project will Shelved like LCA or Arjun.......
we already have Naval FGFA option. with TOT so we dont waste money.
anyway by 2020 all our acuisations will have full ToT & License production linked up with every deal too.
then only in future we can reach Full Indeginitation .
F-35 will not have ToT.

First of all; Tejas is not a shelved programme. Must this always remain a confusion with the general citizenry just because the Army's Arjun has been shelved? Unlike Arjun that sees limited induction and only benefits the Indian industries with respect to learning curve, Tejas has been repeatedly confirmed full inductions with minor modifications, labeled as Mark II.

I believe our spokesperson has given out sufficient details to assure the country of Tejas' full inductions

 

[Vladimir79]

The best v can get from britain is leasing an invincible class carrier for 5-6 years immediately until our indigenous carrier joins our force. V are required to not lose carrier aviation experience. For which this route is better than buying an elizabeth class ship. Even if goskov deal fell by the wayside v would have the option of extending the lease and may be buy the new carrier if needed. In any case, i don't see the new carrier seeing indian shores except for joint exercises.

You are missing the key factor here, there is no need to lease Invincible class carriers. Viraat is more than up to the job with her refit. It is the Sea Harrier fleet that would need to be replaced and BAE doesn't make them anymore so it is impossible to do. Leasing Invincible's makes no sense whatsoever.

Further this would place the russians in hot steam and give us leverage to arm twist moscow vis-a-vis goskov negotiation and ram unnecessary, excessive prices down russian throat. V would have a better negotiating position since v would not be as desperate as before.

Putting "Russians in hot steam?" xaxa Russia is already pooring at top steam to finish Gorshkov. It is India's indecision which has led to this crises in the first place. If they hadnt' waited ten years to make a decision, INS Vikramaditya would have been in service years ago.

P.S. Learn how to write "we" --- it is not spelled "V"