Brazilian nuclear submarine

[Payeng]

Armand why dont you guys give us scorpene submarine with nuclear reactor.

we already have nuclear sub tech, plus french are bringing above model with nuclear reactor for long time, it is high time that they deliver this on scorpene submarine to India.

I am afraid we might have to sign NTP and CTBT for that and maybe even after that is wont be a guarantee, but we might use the loophole the Charka way

 

[Payeng]

Redesigning to fix issues is technological help. That is the same kind of help France will give Brasil imo.

Another probability is a complete French build up unit under french supervision, not sure if it can work out

 

[p2prada]

There was talk of transferring a nuclear version of Scorpene to Brazil a few years ago in some big military deal. I wonder what happened?

 

[IBSA]

The Brazilian nuclear sub isn't a newness. There was decades that our Navy is developing the project, and only now they will start. I think India, and even Iran, will finish their nuclear subs before ours.

Ambientalists groups acting here , such Greenpeace, are against the nuclear power at general and complicates the things for the Brazilian Navy projects. Lacking more government support also.

We don't utilize French technology. We developing our own technology. Down the sub project on image is written "Brazil: Own Technology is Independence". If our sub has some foreign technology, I think it shall be German. At least, our reactors on Angra Nuclear Power Plant are brought from Germany.

 

[Ray]

IBSA,

Keep us informed about Brazil, if you don't mind.

There is a lot of interaction between Brazil and India building up/

We want to warm up on that Friendship!

 

[Observer10]

hello observer 10
welcome to DFI
mate what are chances of rafale winning Brazil MMRCA ???
plz tell

As far as I know, problably there won't be any winner at all because we are stuck at this MMRCA program for our Air Force for 12 years... yes, 12 years. We don't believe the government will buy anything, but if it does, I think it will be the Rafale because of the strategic relations between France and Brazil and the fact that our governors don't like americans (Dilma Rousseuf has a history here with the military government, she was supposedly socialist, etc).

So, to be honest, if there is going to be a winner, it will be Super Hornet or Rafale, and I think it will be Rafale.

 

[Armand2REP]

We don't utilize French technology. We developing our own technology. Down the sub project on image is written "Brazil: Own Technology is Independence". If our sub has some foreign technology, I think it shall be German. At least, our reactors on Angra Nuclear Power Plant are brought from Germany.

You don't really have the technology to build a compact SSN reactor on your own. You buy French submarines and convert one to SSN with technical assistance. You get French help. If Brasil wanted German help they would buy HDW and Germany doesn't have nuke sub reactors and are getting out of nuke industry all together.

 

[Observer10]

There was talk of transferring a nuclear version of Scorpene to Brazil a few years ago in some big military deal. I wonder what happened?

I haven't heard about it. Problably it isn't happening. I can't understand in fact why are we trying to build this nuclear submarine, we can barely operate 5 conventional german submarines because of the low budget of our armed forces and they want a nuclear submarine. Indeed, we use german conventional submarines but for this one and the next Scorpènes we will do nothing with germans, only with the french.

About vertical tubes for missiles, as you could see it will not have any, but it will launch anti-ship missiles from its torpedo tube.

Brazil, as a country, masters the nuclear technology at the point we can build a reactor and enrich uranium, but, of course, doing that in a nuclear submarine is totally different

 

[Payeng]

As far as I know, problably there won't be any winner at all because we are stuck at this MMRCA program for our Air Force for 12 years... yes, 12 years. We don't believe the government will buy anything, but if it does, I think it will be the Rafale because of the strategic relations between France and Brazil and the fact that our governors don't like americans (Dilma Rousseuf has a history here with the military government, she was supposedly socialist, etc).

So, to be honest, if there is going to be a winner, it will be Super Hornet or Rafale, and I think it will be Rafale.

I haven't heard about it. Problably it isn't happening. I can't understand in fact why are we trying to build this nuclear submarine, we can barely operate 5 conventional german submarines because of the low budget of our armed forces and they want a nuclear submarine. Indeed, we use german conventional submarines but for this one and the next Scorpènes we will do nothing with germans, only with the french.

About vertical tubes for missiles, as you could see it will not have any, but it will launch anti-ship missiles from its torpedo tube.

Brazil, as a country, masters the nuclear technology at the point we can build a reactor and enrich uranium, but, of course, doing that in a nuclear submarine is totally different

Seems like lack of immediate threat is barring those ambitious program.

 

[IBSA]

Some more info about the Brazilian nuclear submarine:

The necessary knowledge for the submarine's construction will be researched by a state's company created called AMAZUL, an acronym of Amazônia Azul (Blue Amazon), which is a project of Brazilian Navy to protection of our territorial sea waters, as large and resource-rich as the Amazon Rain Forest.

 

[sayareakd]

what kind of nuke sub are they building, it does not have any vertical missile launch tubes in picture ?

 

[Armand2REP]

what kind of nuke sub are they building, it does not have any vertical missile launch tubes in picture ?

It's a nuclear Scorpene. Weapons are launched from torpedo tubes.

 

[p2prada]

I haven't heard about it. Problably it isn't happening. I can't understand in fact why are we trying to build this nuclear submarine, we can barely operate 5 conventional german submarines because of the low budget of our armed forces and they want a nuclear submarine. Indeed, we use german conventional submarines but for this one and the next Scorpènes we will do nothing with germans, only with the french.

BBC NEWS | Americas | Brazil and France sign arms deal

They were planning on clubbing this deal with the Rafale to make it a larger package deal.

You are looking at SSNs, not SSBNs. That we already know.

 

[Payeng]

Brazil launches nuclear submarine program

Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff on Friday inaugurated a naval installation that will make parts for conventional submarines – and eventually a nuclear-powered submarine – under cooperation agreements signed with France in 2009.

The launch of the facility marks the first concrete step toward construction of what will be Latin America's first submarine powered by a nuclear reactor.

"With this initiative, we join a select group of countries with access to a nuclear submarine," Rousseff said.

She stressed that the nuclear-powered watercraft that Brazil plans to bring into operation in 2023 will not be an instrument of war, but rather will aid in conflict prevention and defense.

"The defense industry is a peace industry, but above all a knowledge (industry)," Rousseff said, adding that the facility inaugurated Friday also will be a center for "technology production and diffusion".

The agreements with France cover the joint production of five submarines, one of them nuclear-propelled; 50 helicopters; a military shipyard; and a naval base, all with French technology.

The plant inaugurated Friday, the shipyard and the military base will require investment of 7.8 billion reais ($3.9 billion) through 2017 and create 9,000 direct jobs and 32,000 indirect jobs, the Defense Ministry said.
- See more at: Brazil launches nuclear submarine program

 

[Payeng]

Rough traqnslation from PODER NAVAL

Plant components Brazilian nuclear submarine starts functioning

Brazil is closer to having its nuclear submarine, a project of the military for 40 years. If all goes as scheduled Navy of Brazil, SNBR stands for Brazilian Nuclear Submarine, will be sailing in 2025. Today will be inaugurated in Itaguai, in Rio de Janeiro, the production unit which will leave its internal components and the other four submarines that will replace the current fleet.

President Dilma Rousseff inaugurated this morning the Unit Manufacture of Steel Structures (Ufem), started in 2010. It is a large plant with a shed 40 meters, 90 000 m2 and 53 000 m2 of built area. It is three kilometers from Nuclebrás Heavy Equipment SA (Nuclep), linked to the Ministry of Science, Technology and Innovation. The cylinders Nuclep builds the hull, the part of the submarine where are the crew. While Nuclep manufactures the body of the submarine, the Ufem makes lighter and internal structures - the deck, bulkheads, bases pipe and equipment beyond the bow and stern.

The process of construction of submarines happens simultaneously in several units. The intention is that each of them will be ready in five years, the period for which they are not just obsolete, says Admiral Alan Paes Leme Arthou, project manager and construction of the base and the shipyard Itaguaí. The first of four conventional submarines - the family of SBR which will name the naval battles of the War of Paraguay-, should be ready in 2015. Remains two years in testing and will be delivered in 2017. The second will be delivered after 1.5 years and so on until the room is ready in 2020.

Each of conventional submarines costing € 500 million (nearly U.S. $ 1.3 billion). Replace the existing fleet of five submarines (Tupi, Tamoio, Timbira, Tapajós and Tikuna), with a useful life of 25 to 30 years and based on German design. The new family has five meters more than the French Scorpene, the Direction des

Constructions et Navales Services (DCNS). Ali fit 40 crew.

The nuclear submarine, to be named Álvaro Alberto (tribute to the military that introduced nuclear energy in Brazil), is bigger and will cost € 2 billion (£ 5.19 billion). Are a hundred crew members.

The ongoing project by the Navy includes three fronts - which will build the nuclear submarine, which will build four conventional submarines and the facilities to do it all. The plan includes the construction of a shipyard and naval base. The call Prosub (Submarine Development Program) is the largest international military contract in Brazil - is € 6.7 billion (or U.S. $ 17 billion). Portion of these resources to the Brazilian defense project is part of a financing to be paid by Brazil in 20 years, until 2029, to a consortium of banks BNP Paribas, Societe Generale, Calyon Credit Industriel et Commercial, Natixis and Santander.

About 70 Brazilians were on the DCNS shipyard in Cherbourg, for technology transfer and capacity building. A company formed by DCNS and Odebrecht, special purpose builds naval base and shipyard in Itaguai.

The project of construction of submarines is part of an agreement between Brazil and France signed in September 2009 between the then President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Nicolas Sarkozy. France does not go to Brazil's nuclear propulsion technology. "Nobody in the world, provides technology to enrich uranium, which is the fuel of the nuclear submarine," said the admiral. Brazil already enriching uranium since 1985.

Today a handful of countries have nuclear submarines: the United States and Russia (already had about 170 each and now have 70), England and France (ten each), and China (with four). India also has a project, such as Brazil.

Admiral Arthou gives an idea of "‹"‹the complexity of making a nuclear submarine. "It's much more complex than can be produced in the world," he says. A car has about 3 billion pieces, a fighter plane, 100 000. A next-generation commercial aircraft, 150 thousand pieces. In Challenger is 180 thousand pieces. "A nuclear submarine has between 800 thousand to 900 thousand pieces, depending on the project."

 

[cobra commando]

The Country's First Nuclear Submarine Ready In 2023, Admiral Says (edited
excerpts)

(Source: Senate News Agency via Brazil MoD; published Feb 14, 2014) (Issued in Portuguese only; unofficial translation by Defense- Aerospace.com) BRASILIA --- The first Brazilian nuclear-powered submarine should be ready in 2023, to Admiral Gilberto Max Roffé Hirschfeld, general coordinator of the Submarine Development Program (Prosub, created in 2008, from an agreement for cooperation and technology transfer between Brazil and France.) Hirschfeld gave the information during a public hearing on Thursday Feb 13 by the Brazilian Senate's Committee on Foreign Affairs and National Defense (CRE). The hearing was called and coordinated by the president of the college, Senator Ricardo Ferraço (PMDB-ES). Besides the nuclear submarine, the program under the responsibility of the Navy of Brazil includes the construction of four submarines with conventional (diesel-electric) propulsion. The construction of a naval base for the submarines and a shipyard in Itaguai, Rio de Janeiro, is also included in the program. The admiral supported the need for the country to develop and maintain a strong defense system. To justify it, he said the country is the focus of "ambitions" of other countries because of its natural wealth and resources. Given the uncertainties about what will happen in the world in the medium and long term, Max Hirschfeld noted that Brazil needs to be prepared with a powerful Armed Forces: "Not to go to war, on the contrary, but just to have the power of deterrence," the admiral noted.

Read more here:
The Country's First Nuclear Submarine Ready In 2023, Admiral Says (edited excerpts)

 

[Illusive]

what kind of nuke sub are they building, it does not have any vertical missile launch tubes in picture ?

Here it shows it has vertical launch tubes in front portion of the sub.

 

[cobra commando]

Brazil builds nuclear submarine to patrol offshore oil - Channel NewsAsia