BrahMos Cruise Missile

[Enquirer]

Brains don't work on algorithm or reason. It is quite possible that Indian fuel for missiles may be of poor quality but is most likely not. India is quite advanced in technology and has been continually upgrading its technology for 40 years in missile propulsion.

Brahmos missile weighs 3tons and travels 450km. So, I would not be extrapolating too much if I say that Akash missile, which weighs 25% of Brahmos will travel at least 25% the range. I know that fuel is solid in Akash whereas it is liquid in Brahmos. Indian made propulsion for Barak-8 with dual pulse motor and weighing 280kg has range of 80km. So, Indian propulsion system is pretty good even in solid fuel rockets. I find it more convincing that 70-80km range is more warranted.

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The bane of Indian missiles has always been "materials" - all Indian missile casing/frame etc weigh way too much!!

That said, in the specific case of Akash, the operational range of the missile has also been limited by the tracking range of Rajendra radar. With the incorporation of seeker in Akash Mk1S the effective range could be slightly more (in a tail chase scenario).

 

[Kshithij]

The bane of Indian missiles has always been "materials" - all Indian missile casing/frame etc weigh way too much!!

That said, in the specific case of Akash, the operational range of the missile has also been limited by the tracking range of Rajendra radar. With the incorporation of seeker in Akash Mk1S the effective range could be slightly more (in a tail chase scenario).

As I said, materials of Indian missiles is very good. Brahmos, Barak-8 etc are the examples. Radar is never the problem for a missile of less than 100km range. Even UTTAM radar had 150km range (which was reduced to 100km by nose cone). Ground based radar will have much more range.

 

[OnePunchMan]

View attachment 24924

800 km???? Man you have just insulted us all. Its 1600km in real.

Its only we fool who even after being a part of MTCR has not yet tested it to full range.

My source is a family member who has served in the navy for his entire life , i will trust him more than any other internet warrior out there also if you look at the Yakhont the range of that missile itself was 600KM and brahmos was a improvement over that base missile , including better fuel lighter weight in terms of weight of the motor and the body.

so take it or leave it ,either way i don't give a crap because i trust him way more than any internet keyboard warrior who basically have no info and relies on the shoddy indian journalism to come to a conclusion.

MTCR restriction are in name only and if you actually KNEW JACK ABOUT MTCR you would know that it does not apply to CRUISE MISSILES.

 

[Kshithij]

My source is a family member who has served in the navy for his entire life , i will trust him more than any other internet warrior out there also if you look at the Yakhont the range of that missile itself was 600KM and brahmos was a improvement over that base missile , including better fuel lighter weight in terms of weight of the motor and the body.

so take it or leave it ,either way i don't give a crap because i trust him way more than any internet keyboard warrior who basically have no info and relies on the shoddy indian journalism to come to a conclusion.

MTCR restriction are in name only and if you actually KNEW JACK ABOUT MTCR you would know that it does not apply to CRUISE MISSILES.

MTCR appears to everything that is unmanned and armed vehicle, even drones and cruise missile

 

[Chinmoy]

My source is a family member who has served in the navy for his entire life , i will trust him more than any other internet warrior out there also if you look at the Yakhont the range of that missile itself was 600KM and brahmos was a improvement over that base missile , including better fuel lighter weight in terms of weight of the motor and the body.

so take it or leave it ,either way i don't give a crap because i trust him way more than any internet keyboard warrior who basically have no info and relies on the shoddy indian journalism to come to a conclusion.

MTCR restriction are in name only and if you actually KNEW JACK ABOUT MTCR you would know that it does not apply to CRUISE MISSILES.

My source is I myself who has interacted with users.

Now when you talked about Yakhont or P-800 on which BRAHMOS is based upon, could you or anyone here would clarify few points?

Oniks weigh at 3 ton same that of Brahmos. The RAMJET produces a thrust of 4 ton in Oniks and lets assume that similar amount of thrust is there in case of Brahmos. But at that thrust Oniks travels at a max speed of 2.5 Mach, that too not during the whole flight time. But at similar mass and assumed thrust Brahmos travels at 2.8 Mach that too during the whole flight time which is its USP. Now how could that be possible?

One simple answer could be that the engine of both the missiles are different. Brahmos is having a higher thrust RAMJET engine. But in that case it is going to consume more fuel which means its range would be less then that of Oniks. For that we do need new fuel, but it is a known fact that Russia has provided us the same kerosene fuel used in Oniks.

I have a lot of respect for your family member and in no way I think myself to be feasible enough to contradict him. But my simple question is, India never tested BRAHMOS for more then 300 km before MTCR, so it is definitely something to look for. And after that too only once its been tested. So when we are saying that it is capable to breach 450 km mark, are we simply taking Russia by their words in this? In everything else we do complain about their two timings.

 

[Enquirer]

As I said, materials of Indian missiles is very good. Brahmos, Barak-8 etc are the examples. Radar is never the problem for a missile of less than 100km range. Even UTTAM radar had 150km range (which was reduced to 100km by nose cone). Ground based radar will have much more range.

You're committing the sin of anachronism and wrongful conflation!!!

Akash design is 35+ years old - materials used were from knowledge of similar missiles from 50+ years ago!!!
Just because India has a JV for Barak & Brahmos that made use of better materials, the effect doesn't get rubbed offf on Akash miraculously (perhaps in Akash NG!)

Similar logic applies to Rajendra radar also! Conflating Uttam & Radendra?? Ridiculous!!

 

[Kshithij]

You're committing the sin of anachronism and wrongful conflation!!!

Akash design is 35+ years old - materials used were from knowledge of similar missiles from 50+ years ago!!!
Just because India has a JV for Barak & Brahmos that made use of better materials, the effect doesn't get rubbed offf on Akash miraculously (perhaps in Akash NG!)

Similar logic applies to Rajendra radar also! Conflating Uttam & Radendra?? Ridiculous!!

What makes you think that Akash is 35 year old design? Why do you claim that India eill insist in using older material when it has better material?

Also, do you know the range of rajendra radar? Why do you claim that it is lower than 100km?

 

[Enquirer]

What makes you think that Akash is 35 year old design? Why do you claim that India eill insist in using older material when it has better material?

Also, do you know the range of rajendra radar? Why do you claim that it is lower than 100km?

What makes me 'think' all those stuff? Because those are the 'facts' - stuff that is so f'ing obvious and stuff you know when you read official sources, not by eating generous helpings of channa masala and farting on forums!

You have no idea of how products are made or how projects are run!!! Just because you've learnt something new doesn't mean all your old products will benefit from it automatically! The design (including that of materials) is FROZEN!!! To change something as drastic as the material of the missile - it needs complete requalification. An exercise that can be undertaken but that eventually makes it a new missile - like Akash NG!

Also note (if you think logically) that Akash missile is 'command guided' ALL THE WAY which means that the Rajendra 'tracking' has to be accurate all the way to less than 10 m for a object flying at Mach+!! That kind of sensitivity requirement is different from that of radars that need to only bring the missile to a few 100s or 1000s of meters close to the target and the missile's onboard seeker will then take care of the terminal guidance!

That's why I had stated that the onboard seeker of Akash 1S would help in extending the range marginally (depending on other design parameters)

 

[AMCA]

Smt @nsitharaman congratulates Team Brahmos & @DRDO_India for successful flight test carried out at 1040 hrs on 21 May 2018 from ITR, Balasore to validate BRAHMOS missile life extension technologies developed for the first time in India. 1/2

 

[sayareakd]

So basically they took old brahmos, which had expiry life, re-did and then tested it. Cool.

 

[Chinmoy]

Smt @nsitharaman congratulates Team Brahmos & @DRDO_India for successful flight test carried out at 1040 hrs on 21 May 2018 from ITR, Balasore to validate BRAHMOS missile life extension technologies developed for the first time in India. 1/2

Tweet is not showing up. Could you please repost it as image?

 

[sayareakd]

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[Kshithij]

15 years is too less for a decent missile. This will mean that the missiles made in 2015 will be wasted in 2030. That is a really big waste. One needs to have longer lifespan in missiles to be practically feasible to mass produce.

 

[Chinmoy]

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Any info on the range?

AFAIK @kurup mentioned a test of 700 Km range. Is this the same test?

 

[patriots]

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...tension-program-along-the-odisha-coast/230271

details here .......and already the brahmos has ...400km

and will be 800 km ...in future

 

[patriots]

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...tension-program-along-the-odisha-coast/230271

details here .......and already the brahmos has ...400km

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/in...sonic-cruise-missile-from-odisha-coast-443235

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...der-life-extension-program-1237816-2018-05-21

 

[Chinmoy]

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/a...tension-program-along-the-odisha-coast/230271

details here .......and already the brahmos has ...400km

https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/in...sonic-cruise-missile-from-odisha-coast-443235

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/sto...der-life-extension-program-1237816-2018-05-21

I don't know from where TimesNow have got their defence experts. See this report.

India has already extended the range of the three-tonne missile from its earlier 290 km to 400 km and successfully test-fired the variant in March 2017. Increasing the missile's range from 400 km to further 800 km is now possible after India's induction into the Missile Technology Control Regime in June 2016, they said.

.... The correspondent himself/ herself is ignorant of MTCR it seems.

IndiaTV and IndiaToday did a much better job.

#. The range of the BrahMos missile can be extended up to 400 km as certain technical restrictions were lifted after India became a full member of the Missile Technology Control Regime or MTCR in 2016.

BrahMos missile has flight range of up to 290-km with supersonic speed all through the flight, leading to shorter flight time, consequently ensuring lower dispersion of targets, quicker engagement time and non-interception by any known weapon system in the world.

But anyway, lets not get down the trodden path again. Its a great feat accomplished nicely.

 

[sayareakd]

800 kms and could be extended if they want to............................................................................................

 

[cobra commando]

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[kurup]

Any info on the range?

AFAIK @kurup mentioned a test of 700 Km range. Is this the same test?

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