BrahMos Cruise Missile

[Chinmoy]

No change as such except the coded limitations in the FCS have been removed. Modifications will be introduced to bring about increase in range to 600+km.

That is what I've been talking about all along. Simply doubling the range by by filling up a half filled tank is absurd at its best.

As of now, we can't program BRAHMOS to fly more then 300 km. The extended range in current form could be attained by changing the flight program coding. Even that is not possible overnight in the deployed systems.

For doubling the range, we would have to overhaul the system in a massive way. I don't understand why people live in a bubble that BRAHMOS is capable of 450 km without any change and the range could be doubled by filling up the fuel tank.

 

[Kshithij]

That is what I've been talking about all along. Simply doubling the range by by filling up a half filled tank is absurd at its best.

As of now, we can't program BRAHMOS to fly more then 300 km. The extended range in current form could be attained by changing the flight program coding. Even that is not possible overnight in the deployed systems.

For doubling the range, we would have to overhaul the system in a massive way. I don't understand why people live in a bubble that BRAHMOS is capable of 450 km without any change and the range could be doubled by filling up the fuel tank.

How is it absurd to say that the actual range of brahmos is 450km? The physical ability of Brahmos is 450km. FCS is not a big deal as the parameters are changeable by India. Assuming that India is dumb enough to purposefully reduce the capabilities if brahmos to please foreign masters is absurd.

The fuel tank is not left half empty as that will make the fuel shake around. So, generally, ballast is placed in its location to reduce the fuel. But, in this case, Brahmos never had restrictions of 300km. It was simply lied to everyone about the restrictions. The only change needed to rise the range to 450km from 300km is to stop lying.

The 600km Brahmos will require to be longer and fatter as the current Brahmos is unlikely to be able to accommodate mire fuel.

 

[Chinmoy]

How is it absurd to say that the actual range of brahmos is 450km? The physical ability of Brahmos is 450km. FCS is not a big deal as the parameters are changeable by India. Assuming that India is dumb enough to purposefully reduce the capabilities if brahmos to please foreign masters is absurd.

The fuel tank is not left half empty as that will make the fuel shake around. So, generally, ballast is placed in its location to reduce the fuel. But, in this case, Brahmos never had restrictions of 300km. It was simply lied to everyone about the restrictions. The only change needed to rise the range to 450km from 300km is to stop lying.

The 600km Brahmos will require to be longer and fatter as the current Brahmos is unlikely to be able to accommodate mire fuel.

Its absurd because to change the FCS you would have to dismantle the whole missile.

To change the fuel tank or to remove the ballast, same thing.

So in its current form, the BRAHMOS is not going to fly 450 km. Upgradation of it is in place, but would take time. Extended range BRAHMOS i.e with 600Km is yet to be designed and no, it would not be fatter. It would have a more efficient engine and fuel.

 

[Kshithij]

Its absurd because to change the FCS you would have to dismantle the whole missile.

To change the fuel tank or to remove the ballast, same thing.

So in its current form, the BRAHMOS is not going to fly 450 km. Upgradation of it is in place, but would take time. Extended range BRAHMOS i.e with 600Km is yet to be designed and no, it would not be fatter. It would have a more efficient engine and fuel.

To remove the ballast, one will hqve to open up the missile and same with changing FCS. But since these are in Indian control, India can simply lie that the range is 300km. It is like the dilemma about who will investigate when the police themselves are thieves.

The improvement of range to 600km will require lot of refinement in engine and fuel if the size has to remain same. Even P800 Oniks has lower flight characteristics like inability of sea skimming, lack of end maneuver, slower speed of 2.5mach etc and yet the range is less than 600km.

This 600km Brahmos is a futuristic project. No point discussing it now

 

[Enquirer]

To remove the ballast, one will hqve to open up the missile and same with changing FCS. But since these are in Indian control, India can simply lie that the range is 300km. It is like the dilemma about who will investigate when the police themselves are thieves.

The improvement of range to 600km will require lot of refinement in engine and fuel if the size has to remain same. Even P800 Oniks has lower flight characteristics like inability of sea skimming, lack of end maneuver, slower speed of 2.5mach etc and yet the range is less than 600km.

This 600km Brahmos is a futuristic project. No point discussing it now

You guys are confusing the 800kms (future variant of the current Brahmos to be tested in 2 yrs) with the 600kms Brahmos (which is quite easily attainable with the fuel & other config changes)!

@Chinmoy has no clue about what/how/why things are done, but will authoritatively proclaim his own flatulence as facts! Such a pity!!!!

 

[OnePunchMan]

Its absurd because to change the FCS you would have to dismantle the whole missile.

To change the fuel tank or to remove the ballast, same thing.

So in its current form, the BRAHMOS is not going to fly 450 km. Upgradation of it is in place, but would take time. Extended range BRAHMOS i.e with 600Km is yet to be designed and no, it would not be fatter. It would have a more efficient engine and fuel.

What if i told you brahmos always had a range of 800 KM in High-Lo flight Profile???
MIND BLOWN right???
that 450 KM range is in a pure Lo-Lo Profile.
Now can we please stop this Randi Rona about it's range?

 

[Chinmoy]

What if i told you brahmos always had a range of 800 KM in High-Lo flight Profile???
MIND BLOWN right???
that 450 KM range is in a pure Lo-Lo Profile.
Now can we please stop this Randi Rona about it's range?

800 km???? Man you have just insulted us all. Its 1600km in real.

Its only we fool who even after being a part of MTCR has not yet tested it to full range.

 

[Chinmoy]

To remove the ballast, one will hqve to open up the missile and same with changing FCS. But since these are in Indian control, India can simply lie that the range is 300km. It is like the dilemma about who will investigate when the police themselves are thieves.

The improvement of range to 600km will require lot of refinement in engine and fuel if the size has to remain same. Even P800 Oniks has lower flight characteristics like inability of sea skimming, lack of end maneuver, slower speed of 2.5mach etc and yet the range is less than 600km.

This 600km Brahmos is a futuristic project. No point discussing it now

Just one simple question..................

It is understandable that India didn't tested it beyond 300 km before MTCR. But after being a member of MTCR, why are we still waiting to test it if it is already capable of traveling more then 300km?

And why the official website is shying away from publishing that we already tested the extended range version couple of times?

 

[Flame Thrower]

View attachment 24924

800 km???? Man you have just insulted us all. Its 1600km in real.

Its only we fool who even after being a part of MTCR has not yet tested it to full range.

Well if you know indian armed forces secrecy stuff, you wouldn't have said the same.

No one knew that we had Osa class missile boats till 1971 war.

People hardly knew about our Mig 25 squadron or their operations. Pak came to know of those planes(if I am not wrong) when one of'em intentionally broke sound barrier on Islamabad

Our 1974 PNE was a shock....

There is hardly any info about our strategic command.

Airhant work was under wraps for more than two decades....

I can't confirm about the below news but there were rumours that U2 spy planes were operated for some yrs from Indian bases to spy over China. This happened after 1962 war.

Yes Brahmos missile was tested for 450 km only but then again no one can be 100% sure about the range.

If you go through Brahmos development then Ramjet technology was perfected during development of Brahmos.

What I am trying to say is no one knows, at least us civilians doesn't know the exact range. Thus I rest my case.

 

[Chinmoy]

Well if you know indian armed forces secrecy stuff, you wouldn't have said the same.

No one knew that we had Osa class missile boats till 1971 war.

People hardly knew about our Mig 25 squadron or their operations. Pak came to know of those planes(if I am not wrong) when one of'em intentionally broke sound barrier on Islamabad

Our 1974 PNE was a shock....

There is hardly any info about our strategic command.

Airhant work was under wraps for more than two decades....

I can't confirm about the below news but there were rumours that U2 spy planes were operated for some yrs from Indian bases to spy over China. This happened after 1962 war.

Yes Brahmos missile was tested for 450 km only but then again no one can be 100% sure about the range.

If you go through Brahmos development then Ramjet technology was perfected during development of Brahmos.

What I am trying to say is no one knows, at least us civilians doesn't know the exact range. Thus I rest my case.

Now the secrecy stuff is well known and I don't deny it. India even denied having Mig25 at a time.

But in case of BRAHMOS it is not like that. The world knows about its capability and its presence in India. Now when we publish the A5 range to be of 5500 instead of what Chinese cry about, it is understandable. There could be a political fallout of that. But by stating that BRAHMOS is of 400 km, what kind of political fallout you are thinking of when we have already achieved MTCR membership?

Even I am not denying the fact that BRAHMOS could achieve 300+ km. But simply saying that each and every missile is able to do so in its current form is simply absurd.

 

[Kshithij]

Just one simple question..................

It is understandable that India didn't tested it beyond 300 km before MTCR. But after being a member of MTCR, why are we still waiting to test it if it is already capable of traveling more then 300km?

And why the official website is shying away from publishing that we already tested the extended range version couple of times?

Brahmos has been tested for 450km from ground test and 400+km (exact not specified) from air. The ground test was immediately after MTCR.

Also, India has the habit of downplaying the range of many missiles. Akash missile, for example has 720kg weight, same as patriot missile. But Akash missile is RAMJET without oxidiser but only fuel whereas Patriot is rocket motor with oxidiser and fuel. Yet, Patriot has 70km range while Akash has 30km. This is suspicious. Same with Agni-5 missile. SO, Brahmos need not be any different

 

[nongaddarliberal]

Brahmos has been tested for 450km from ground test and 400+km (exact not specified) from air. The ground test was immediately after MTCR.

Also, India has the habit of downplaying the range of many missiles. Akash missile, for example has 720kg weight, same as patriot missile. But Akash missile is RAMJET without oxidiser but only fuel whereas Patriot is rocket motor with oxidiser and fuel. Yet, Patriot has 70km range while Akash has 30km. This is suspicious. Same with Agni-5 missile. SO, Brahmos need not be any different

The Chinese repeatedly said that Agni 5 has a range of 8000 km, in an attempt to get western countries to criticize India for it. They didn't bite. They inadventently admitted India into the ICBM club.

 

[Kshithij]

The Chinese repeatedly said that Agni 5 has a range of 8000 km, in an attempt to get western countries to criticize India for it. They didn't bite. They inadventently admitted India into the ICBM club.

USA or Europe are not fools to listen to china. They are also aware of it. China is just upset that India is "towing the line" of westerners and bowing to their pressure to underplay the range. China does not consider India as a threat. It only sees that India is joining with west to cause problem to China.

Agni5 ICBM has much more range than 8000km. 10000km is more appropriate. At high orbitals, the air resistance is minimal and the speed does not diminish quickly.

 

[Chinmoy]

Brahmos has been tested for 450km from ground test and 400+km (exact not specified) from air. The ground test was immediately after MTCR.

Also, India has the habit of downplaying the range of many missiles. Akash missile, for example has 720kg weight, same as patriot missile. But Akash missile is RAMJET without oxidiser but only fuel whereas Patriot is rocket motor with oxidiser and fuel. Yet, Patriot has 70km range while Akash has 30km. This is suspicious. Same with Agni-5 missile. SO, Brahmos need not be any different

That is what............ How many ER test till date? Only one. Whereas we are manufacturing 24 missiles per annum currently. As far as Air version is concerned, I already shared two different reports by the same source.

Although its offtopic, but Launch weight of Patriot is around 200 kg more than Akash. Also its flight ceiling is higher then Akash. Also only PAC 2 is of 160Km whereas PAC1 and PAC range are equivalent to Akash.

 

[Kshithij]

That is what............ How many ER test till date? Only one. Whereas we are manufacturing 24 missiles per annum currently. As far as Air version is concerned, I already shared two different reports by the same source.

Although its offtopic, but Launch weight of Patriot is around 200 kg more than Akash. Also its flight ceiling is higher then Akash. Also only PAC 2 is of 160Km whereas PAC1 and PAC range are equivalent to Akash.

Can you tell me how many brahmos tests have been announced after MTCR? I remember only 1 and that was 450km.

BTW, I was speaking of PAC-1 range and weight. Also, RAMJET is better than rocket motor as RAMJET does not need internal space for oxidiser

 

[binayak95]

I can't confirm about the below news but there were rumours that U2 spy planes were operated for some yrs from Indian bases to spy over China. This happened after 1962 war.

I can confirm this for a fact, the airfield in question is Charbatia Airfield, just outside my home city of Cuttack.

The program stopped after one particular wet monsoon rain storm later, a U2 got stuck at the end of the runway in all the mud. (after landing) Removing it was a huge hassle and CIA and RAW were very worried about the whole thing leaking out to the media (ours was a very leftist nation then, even now we have such idiots)

 

[Chinmoy]

Can you tell me how many brahmos tests have been announced after MTCR? I remember only 1 and that was 450km.

BTW, I was speaking of PAC-1 range and weight. Also, RAMJET is better than rocket motor as RAMJET does not need internal space for oxidiser

India became MTCR member in June 2016 and after that there were 6 tests of BRAHMOS including the ER, AL and latest being with indigenous seeker in 2018.

Well if you were talking about PAC-1, then you must know that its launch weight is 914 kg opposed to 720 kg of Akash. Its flight altitude is 24 km oppose to 18km of Akash .And its range at that altitude is 70 km Max compared to 30Km of Akash at 18km which is commendable. Again if we want to discuss Akash, lets do it in relevant thread.

BTW, fuel consumption of RAMJET is always greater then conventional Rocket engine. And thrust of a engine depends on the type of fuel used. Akash has a speed of 2.5 Mach whereas PAC-1 has a speed of 2.8 Mach minimum. So you could clearly see the difference. You have to also take into account the burnout time. So its not just simple arithmetic.

 

[Kchontha]

Everybody knows that Brahmos range is upgradable to 600km with minor software and fuel tank tweak since its base is P-800 Oniks. Even a moron can conclude the true purpose of its barrage of testing soon after 2016 MTCR entry. A 600km plus range new generation Brahmos for hitting protected targets is not yet developed.

 

[Enquirer]

Brahmos has been tested for 450km from ground test and 400+km (exact not specified) from air. The ground test was immediately after MTCR.

Also, India has the habit of downplaying the range of many missiles. Akash missile, for example has 720kg weight, same as patriot missile. But Akash missile is RAMJET without oxidiser but only fuel whereas Patriot is rocket motor with oxidiser and fuel. Yet, Patriot has 70km range while Akash has 30km. This is suspicious. Same with Agni-5 missile. SO, Brahmos need not be any different

If you and Kasparov weigh the same, then you too must have been World Champion Chess player? If you're not, you're probably hiding your talents and trophies???

 

[Kshithij]

If you and Kasparov weigh the same, then you too must have been World Champion Chess player? If you're not, you're probably hiding your talents and trophies???

Brains don't work on algorithm or reason. It is quite possible that Indian fuel for missiles may be of poor quality but is most likely not. India is quite advanced in technology and has been continually upgrading its technology for 40 years in missile propulsion.

Brahmos missile weighs 3tons and travels 450km. So, I would not be extrapolating too much if I say that Akash missile, which weighs 25% of Brahmos will travel at least 25% the range. I know that fuel is solid in Akash whereas it is liquid in Brahmos. Indian made propulsion for Barak-8 with dual pulse motor and weighing 280kg has range of 80km. So, Indian propulsion system is pretty good even in solid fuel rockets. I find it more convincing that 70-80km range is more warranted.

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