Bolivia declares Israel a terrorist state

[Neo]

Well, even Pakistan is backed with political, military and financial support by others.

Is that not a truism?

Let me give some examples.

Lets start with CENTO, SEATO and then the Chinese assisting Pak nuclear programme to build the bombs and NK the rocket technology.

Who saved Pakistan in 1948, 1975, 1971 and 1999?

Can we forget the Saudis, Jordan and other Arabs etc assisting Pakistan during war and peace?

Remember Saudis giving Pakistan free oil and then after international hullabaloo making it a deferred payment or the Pak FM visiting KSA for money to salvage the Pak budget?

Pakistan is subsisting on foreign munificence or else she would cease to exist.

and you even take the aid of the enemy of Arabs and Islam - Israel!

So. lets get real!

Topic is Bolivia and Israel, don't drag Pakistan into this.
I shouldn't have to remind you to stick to the topic.

 

[Eastman]

Well, even Pakistan is backed with political, military and financial support by others.

Is that not a truism?

Let me give some examples.

Lets start with CENTO, SEATO and then the Chinese assisting Pak nuclear programme to build the bombs and NK the rocket technology.

Who saved Pakistan in 1948, 1975, 1971 and 1999?

Can we forget the Saudis, Jordan and other Arabs etc assisting Pakistan during war and peace?

Remember Saudis giving Pakistan free oil and then after international hullabaloo making it a deferred payment or the Pak FM visiting KSA for money to salvage the Pak budget?

Pakistan is subsisting on foreign munificence or else she would cease to exist.

and you even take the aid of the enemy of Arabs and Islam - Israel!

So. lets get real!

Maybe it's terrorist tourism

 

[Eastman]

After Brasil the second South American country to take stance against the ongoing genocide of Palestinians by Israel.

Genocide...hmm isnt it a word to harsh to describe the current massacre? People complain about US support to Israel but what about terrorist getting full support from the World Jihadi Groups? What about the rocket barrage fired on Israel are they human only. Israel is retaliating the are not the provoker or the attacker.I would say Israel has every rights to fight for their existence.

Blame the 72 virgins instead for causing a world wide reputation as a headache

 

[LastProphet]

Did they also declared HAMAS also a terrorist organisation which used millions of dollars on building tunnels to kill civilians but not for improving life in gaza....Bolivia has lost it completely...their act is nothing more than cheap publicity....!!

 

[Energon]

Gaza needs humanitarian aid, not Hamas.
Not every Palestinian is member of Hamas.

No argument there. However there's also no denying that Hamas has free reign over all the areas inhabited by Palestinian civilians which they're using to bait Israel. I'm by no means a blind supporter of Israel; but as this conflict drags along I have no choice but to increasingly shift the blame on to Hamas.

Here's the crux of the problem. Hamas, like all other Islamic militant groups delude themselves into thinking that "victory" can only be achieved through military means against a categorically superior enemy. The notion of military victory against all odds has always been romanticized by human societies, however I can't help but get the feeling that there's an inordinately heightened obsession with this idea in the Islamic narrative. Perhaps this is why instead of finding a peaceful resolution to this conflict after repeatedly having their asses handed to them on a platter , Hamas came to the conclusion that the best course of action was to simply change the definition of winning. Now "victory" means sacrificing vast swaths of hapless Palestinian human shields while retaining the ability to pointlessly lob stupid Katyusha rockets toward well defended Israeli areas.

I think anyone with a sense of compassion should feel sorry for the Palestinians and I certainly understand the special emphasis Muslims place upon the plight of the Palestinians. Yet I fail to understand why nobody in the "Muslim world" takes the initiative to dismantle and eradicate the militant wing of Hamas. They're never going to truly defeat the Israelis and the day Hamas poses any sort of a genuine existential threat, the Israelis will wipe them out along with everyone else in the vicinity. Why wait for that to happen?

 

[Known_Unknown]

No argument there. However there's also no denying that Hamas has free reign over all the areas inhabited by Palestinian civilians which they're using to bait Israel. I'm by no means a blind supporter of Israel; but as this conflict drags along I have no choice but to increasingly shift the blame on to Hamas.

Here's the crux of the problem. Hamas, like all other Islamic militant groups delude themselves into thinking that "victory" can only be achieved through military means against a categorically superior enemy. The notion of military victory against all odds has always been romanticized by human societies, however I can't help but get the feeling that there's an inordinately heightened obsession with this idea in the Islamic narrative. Perhaps this is why instead of finding a peaceful resolution to this conflict after repeatedly having their asses handed to them on a platter , Hamas came to the conclusion that the best course of action was to simply change the definition of winning. Now "victory" means sacrificing vast swaths of hapless Palestinian human shields while retaining the ability to pointlessly lob stupid Katyusha rockets toward well defended Israeli areas.

I think anyone with a sense of compassion should feel sorry for the Palestinians and I certainly understand the special emphasis Muslims place upon the plight of the Palestinians. Yet I fail to understand why nobody in the "Muslim world" takes the initiative to dismantle and eradicate the militant wing of Hamas. They're never going to truly defeat the Israelis and the day Hamas poses any sort of a genuine existential threat, the Israelis will wipe them out along with everyone else in the vicinity. Why wait for that to happen?

You're speaking as if Israel is a saint. Disarming Hamas will not happen in a vacuum, and it will certainly not happen while Israeli borders push further and further into Palestinian territory every day. Israel has refused to recognize and implement a two state solution, and the Israelis seem to think that they can continue expanding until they push the Palestinians into the sea. Even the bits and pieces of territory the Palestinians do have is under an Israeli military blockade, and we all know the controversies that erupted last year after Israeli soldiers illegally boarded humanitarian aid carrying Turkish and other ships in international waters and shot dead some of the aid workers.

The UN General Assembly, in its collective wisdom, has passed countless censures and resolutions against Israel, but it continues to blatantly ignore the world community because it is protected by its sugar daddy, the USA.

If Hamas is refusing to surrender now in the hope of a final and decisive battle, it is because the situation is hopeless from their point of view. If they agree to a ceasefire, they will have sacrificed countless lives and gained nothing. If they fight to the end, they will still lose everything, but at least they will have kept their honour. Hence they seem to prefer the latter option

 

[Neo]

You're speaking as if Israel is a saint. Disarming Hamas will not happen in a vacuum, and it will certainly not happen while Israeli borders push further and further into Palestinian territory every day. Israel has refused to recognize and implement a two state solution, and the Israelis seem to think that they can continue expanding until they push the Palestinians into the sea. Even the bits and pieces of territory the Palestinians do have is under an Israeli military blockade, and we all know the controversies that erupted last year after Israeli soldiers illegally boarded humanitarian aid carrying Turkish and other ships in international waters and shot dead some of the aid workers.

The UN General Assembly, in its collective wisdom, has passed countless censures and resolutions against Israel, but it continues to blatantly ignore the world community because it is protected by its sugar daddy, the USA.

If Hamas is refusing to surrender now in the hope of a final and decisive battle, it is because the situation is hopeless from their point of view. If they agree to a ceasefire, they will have sacrificed countless lives and gained nothing. If they fight to the end, they will still lose everything, but at least they will have kept their honour. Hence they seem to prefer the latter option

Well said.mate!

 

[Ray]

Topic is Bolivia and Israel, don't drag Pakistan into this.
I shouldn't have to remind you to stick to the topic.

You should be very careful while replying with a retort to my post, since it can backfire.

My reply was to your post as follows:

Quote Originally Posted by Neo View Post
And US has a history of using veto against all UN resolutions condemning Israel.
So its political, financial and military support.
Without it, Israel would seize to exisit which is my point.

Indeed the thread is about Bolivia and Israel.

How is the US connected to the topic?

You have stated about UN resolution vetoes, political, military and economic support of the US to Israel.

Fine. It is that is 'on topic', how can we divorce Pakistan's assistance to Israel through arms purchase from the topic if the US can be brought in on a similar though reverse order assistance?

Doctor, heal thyself!

 

[hitesh]

When India Is going to declare Pakistan a terror-state ? ,never . Israel never gave a f**k what these country think of its action over Plastine as there is a saying in hindi "Jub Sayia ho droga to bhay kayenka" here USA is Israeli back bone so they don't care much & most of European countries are backing Isreral .

 

[Neo]

You should be very careful while replying with a retort to my post, since it can backfire.

My reply was to your post as follows:


Indeed the thread is about Bolivia and Israel.

How is the US connected to the topic?

You have stated about UN resolution vetoes, political, military and economic support of the US to Israel.

Fine. It is that is 'on topic', how can we divorce Pakistan's assistance to Israel through arms purchase from the topic if the US can be brought in on a similar though reverse order assistance?

Doctor, heal thyself!

I didn't intend to be disrespectful but you have a bad habbit of taking my replies out of context and draging Pakistan into it derailing the topic, it is not the first time. Just check the reply right after your post and you will see what I mean.

Lethalforce made a reference to USA in.post #3, how she is working as a shield around Israel and the debate evolved around Bolivia-Israel-USA while staying on topic.

You mention Pakistan and the trolls will ruin the thread as usual. Hope you get my point.

 

[Energon]

You're speaking as if Israel is a saint. Disarming Hamas will not happen in a vacuum, and it will certainly not happen while Israeli borders push further and further into Palestinian territory every day. Israel has refused to recognize and implement a two state solution, and the Israelis seem to think that they can continue expanding until they push the Palestinians into the sea. Even the bits and pieces of territory the Palestinians do have is under an Israeli military blockade, and we all know the controversies that erupted last year after Israeli soldiers illegally boarded humanitarian aid carrying Turkish and other ships in international waters and shot dead some of the aid workers.

The UN General Assembly, in its collective wisdom, has passed countless censures and resolutions against Israel, but it continues to blatantly ignore the world community because it is protected by its sugar daddy, the USA.

Not at all. Israel (especially under the current regime) is no saint; Netanyahu is an insufferable and possibly a despicable human being; and this is yet another tragic tale of victim becoming the abuser. I also abhor the unquestioned and unconditional support the United States provides Israel. The bulk of my sympathies lie with innocent Palestinian civilians who have no agency (because I find neither Hamas nor Hezbollah to be true representatives of the Palestinians).

I'm well aware of the relentless Israeli transgressions which are heavily abetted by Netanyahu's regime. Having said that I'm also a realist and I know for a fact that Israel will never be defeated militarily. The other harsh truth is that there will be no instantaneous justice; frankly I don't expect a major shift in perception until Israel becomes an apartheid state. Do I wish things can be resolved before such a thing happens? Of course; but that doesn't mean it will. Either way the point remains that turning the Palestinians into sacrificial lambs in the interim is categorically pointless, inhumane and absurd on the part of Hamas.

If Hamas is refusing to surrender now in the hope of a final and decisive battle, it is because the situation is hopeless from their point of view. If they agree to a ceasefire, they will have sacrificed countless lives and gained nothing. If they fight to the end, they will still lose everything, but at least they will have kept their honour. Hence they seem to prefer the latter option

This is the part that puzzles me... what "honor" are we talking about here? The Palestinian people have already been stripped of all dignity so even the concept of honor at this point is an oxymoron. If we're talking about Hamas' honor... as in retaining their ability to launch puny Katyusha rockets towards Israel's Iron Dome and turning densely populated Palestinian areas into targets for IDF to blow up then I'd say the price for that so called honor is unacceptably high. Also whatever Hamas may lose if they stop is not theirs to lose anyways.

Sorry, I fail to see any real honor or bravery here, all I see is opportunism, egotism and stupidity on the behalf of Hamas.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

You should be very careful while replying with a retort to my post, since it can backfire.

My reply was to your post as follows:


Indeed the thread is about Bolivia and Israel.

How is the US connected to the topic?

You have stated about UN resolution vetoes, political, military and economic support of the US to Israel.

Fine. It is that is 'on topic', how can we divorce Pakistan's assistance to Israel through arms purchase from the topic if the US can be brought in on a similar though reverse order assistance?

Doctor, heal thyself!

SIR, the pakistanis themselves are living in the mercy of their AMERICAN MASTERS. Now they say that ISRAEL is begging from USA. Our pakistani member does not know anything about ISRAEL, which is very clear from his post. Please don't reply to people who have no knowledge about what they are saying or posting. Please don't care SIR.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Sad but true.
Ameer baap ka bigra hua beta.

Tho phir pakistaniyon ka aukaad kya hai ji........

Aap kaa baap bhi Amerika hi hai na.......

abh thak jo paise pakistan Amerika se maanga, bhool gaye kya...


"PATAA NAHI KYON LOG APNA AUKAAD KO BHOOL KE DUSRON PE APNA UNGLI DIKAATHE HEIN".....

 

[Ray]

I didn't intend to be disrespectful but you have a bad habbit of taking my replies out of context and draging Pakistan into it derailing the topic, it is not the first time. Just check the reply right after your post and you will see what I mean.

Lethalforce made a reference to USA in.post #3, how she is working as a shield around Israel and the debate evolved around Bolivia-Israel-USA while staying on topic.

You mention Pakistan and the trolls will ruin the thread as usual. Hope you get my point.

Lethalforce mentiond, then you replied and then I replied to your reply and so on; and that is how the thread moves on, meandering and teetering along the way. Check any thread in any forum. That is how the pennies fall.

I thought you should have known that having been an Administrator of the Forum.

And please don't hector me as if you are the Admin of this forum.

So long as you get the point, it will do most sufficiently.

Do desist from acting a Moderator, which you are not.

You have a tendency to complain too much, without doing some introspection.

 

[Neo]

Lethalforce mentiond, then you replied and then I replied to your reply and so on; and that is how the thread moves on, meandering and teetering along the way. Check any thread in any forum. That is how the pennies fall.

I thought you should have known that having been an Administrator of the Forum.

And please don't hector me as if you are the Admin of this forum.

So long as you get the point, it will do most sufficiently.

Do desist from acting a Moderator, which you are not.

You have a tendency to complain too much, without doing some introspection.

How convenient to justify your obsession with Pakistan by patronizing me about debate or how it evolves.
If it was upto you, every debate should start with Pakistan and end with Islam right?

I don't have the desire nor the urge to act like an admin or a mod here, but I do have a voice and right to complain and I listen to what mods tell me to do. Yes I have been an admin and mod to several fora and my moderation was admired by friends and foe, specially by Indians because I treated them equally with Pakistani members and often went against other mods dicision to ban a member and reversed or avoided it.

We have the right to use counter arguments but replying a Pakistani member doesn't mean you have to drag Pakistan in every single counter argument.

Hope you get the point.

 

[Neo]

And yes I will complain if my country or I are trolled or insulted.
Better to report than feed the trolls.

 

[Ray]

How convenient to justify your obsession with Pakistan by patronizing me about debate or how it evolves.
If it was upto you, every debate should start with Pakistan and end with Islam right?

I don't have the desire nor the urge to act like an admin or a mod here, but I do have a voice and right to complain and I listen to what mods tell me to do. Yes I have been an admin and mod to several fora and my moderation was admired by friends and foe, specially by Indians because I treated them equally with Pakistani members and often went against other mods dicision to ban a member and reversed or avoided it.

We have the right to use counter arguments but replying a Pakistani member doesn't mean you have to drag Pakistan in every single counter argument.

Hope you get the point.

You have a right to air your grievances and there is no doubt about that. Has it been ever denied to you or any other member?

There is the Report button. I don't think I have to tell you about where it is, since you have used it so extensively that the first page giving he New Posts is half full of your Reports.

If you listen to Mods, I suggest you listen to me.

Yes, I am obsessed with Pakistan and you cannot grudge me that. Most of my adult life has been Pakistan oriented because of my profession and my posting pattern.

I don't drag Pakistan everywhere. I mention it when you or others go hammer and tongs criticising countries, conveniently forgetting that the thread is being made to meander. And when I reply to that meandering, you get hot behind your collar and accuse things said by me or others are OT.

The problem with you is that you are Pakistan centric and you have a chip on your shoulder. Please try to look at issue more objectively.

Please note that I reply with logic and links to your posts when all I could do it remove it, as is done in other forums, where the patience of Mods is not so vast an ocean as ours.

As far as Islam, indeed it interests me. All religions interest me. And interestingly, all religions are misunderstood or are given a spin. If Islam is mentioned, then what do you think I should do to make you happy? Speak about Catholicism? Would not that be weird?

Now when a spin is given, and I am aware of the scriptures, I correct such misgiving by quoting the verses with links, so that none can feel that it is all from my imagination.

Take it easy, and look busy, if you will.

 

[Ray]

And yes I will complain if my country or I are trolled or insulted.
Better to report than feed the trolls.

Not that it will matter, if your complaint is merely a pique without facts, as is most of your complaints.

You create the issue, as you have done with many, including BW and then when they take you on, you whimper and run to the Mods.

Being in that category, I have seen your complaints, just for your info.

 

[Blackwater]

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[thethinker]

And yes I will complain if my country or I are trolled or insulted.
Better to report than feed the trolls.

Does that also imply that it is ok to report your posts where you try to politicize various issues from Kashmir to Gaza by indirectly trying to troll India?

What about those posts where you bring up your religion out of nowhere in midst of a non-related discussion? Ok to report those as well as yes?