Bangladesh migrants, the citizens of no man's land

[Ray]

Unfortunately I did read your post.

The assumption is that the illegal immigrants are actually improving efficiency.

I presented facts to the contrary.

And no Indian companies are far far less mechanized than Chinese companies.

Nothing which is illegal is good for the Nation.

 

[santosh10]

.
and, we also have a news as below about Canada. here, Canada put Pakistanis and Bangladeshis(East Pakistan) together, as it was before 1974. :ranger:

Pakistani-Canadians: Falling below the poverty line

Pakistan-born immigrants are the new face of poverty in urban Canada. The Canadian census revealed that 44 per cent of Pakistan-born immigrants fell below the poverty line making them the second most poverty prone group of immigrants in Canada.:ranger:

While they may project an aura of opulence during their visits back home, their life in Canada, however, is often full of struggle and frustration. Thousands of Pakistani trained engineers, doctors, and PhDs are driving taxis or are working as security guards in large cities. In fact, one in three taxi-drivers in Canada was born in either India or Pakistan. Several others are unemployed thus becoming a burden on Canadian taxpayers.

The latest Census data for income for 2005 revealed that Pakistan-born immigrants reported the second highest incidence for the low-income cut-off, a proxy for poverty line in Canada. In comparison, only 18 per cent of India-born immigrants in Canada reported being a low-income person or belonging to a low-income economic family. Immigrants born in the United Kingdom, Portugal, Italy and Germany reported the lowest incidence of poverty in Canada.

//i.dawn.com/2012/05/image002.jpg

Unlike in the Middle East where the Arab governments do not allow assimilation of migrant workers, the Canadian government and the society to a large extent does not create systematic barriers that may limit the immigrants' ability to succeed and assimilate in Canada. This is not to suggest that immigrants face no barriers at all in Canada. They in fact do. For instance, Pakistan-trained doctors cannot practice medicine without completing further training in Canada. The shorter duration of medical training in Pakistan necessitates the additional certification for doctors. Engineering graduates from Pakistan, however, face no such barrier because the engineering curriculum and the duration of training in Pakistan is similar to that in Canada.

Despite the opportunities (and constraints), Pakistani-Canadians have not prospered as much as immigrants from other countries have. In 2005, wages earned by Pakistan-born immigrants were on average 70 per cent of the wages earned by those born in Canada. In comparison, wages earned by the India-born immigrants were 86 per cent of the wages earned by Canadians. At the same time, immigrants born in America earned 20 per cent more in wages than those born in Canada. Similarly, UK-born immigrants also reported on average higher wages than that of Canadian-born.

//i.dawn.com/2012/05/image004.jpg

Because of lower wages, the Pakistan-born immigrants reported as one of the lowest home-ownership rates. Only 55 per cent of Pakistan-born immigrants reported owning their homes. In comparison, 75 per cent of the India-born immigrants owned their homes. At the same time, while only 12 per cent of the India- and Philippines-born immigrants had never worked in the past, 22 per cent of the Pakistan-born immigrants in Canada reported never being in the workforce.

The difference in wages, home-ownership rates, and employment rates between immigrants from India and Pakistan extend beyond the economic spheres. For instance, Pakistani-born immigrants live in large-sized families. Whereas only 13 per cent of India-born immigrants live in households of five persons or more, 44 per cent of the Pakistan-born immigrants live in households with five or more people. Given the lower wages, high unemployment rates and rental units, Pakistan-born immigrants experience severe crowding at homes where the number of residents per room is perhaps the highest owing to the large family sizes. :ranger:

Given similar cultural endowments, education, and language skills, it is important to explore why Pakistan-born immigrants in Canada have lagged behind their Indian counterparts. The Indian diaspora is much larger in size and has been established in Canada for over a longer period, which has allowed immigrants from India to benefit from the social networks required to establish oneself in employment markets.

While immigrants from Pakistan lack the social networks necessary for success with employment, I would also argue that they suffer from a self-imposed identity crisis. After arriving from Pakistan, many male immigrants feel threatened by the Canadian liberal values, which empower their children and women. Suddenly the head of the household cannot dictate the way he did in Pakistan. Instead of embracing the change that empowers their families, several male immigrants end up in a hostile standoff with their families that sometimes lasts for decades. At the same time, religious leaders, which are almost always imported from back home to serve in mosques in Canada, preach orthodoxy to the parish, further confusing the struggling males.

With turmoil at home and bleak employment prospects outside, Pakistan-born male immigrants struggle with the decision to stay in Canada or return to Pakistan. Children and wives are often shipped back to Pakistan for prolonged periods while the males continue struggling in the job market. While their children see themselves as Canadians, the Pakistan-born male immigrants spent decades figuring out how to cope with their hyphenated identity, i.e., Pakistani-Canadian.

The limited success of (mostly Asian and African) immigrants in the economic spheres and their modest assimilation in the mainstream Canadian culture has prompted the right-wing groups to launch campaigns against immigration to Canada. While opponents of immigration are mostly naïve and their recommendations to reduce immigration border on lunacy, the fact remains that huge changes in the Canadian immigration policies are already taking place. In Saskatchewan, for instance, the provincial government on May 2 has changed the law that now prohibits immigrants from sponsoring their extended family members unless they secure a "high skill" job offer before arrival.

Since 2001, Pakistan has lost the most in its share of supplying immigrants to Canada. Pakistan was the third largest source of immigrants to Canada in 2001 supplying 6.1 per cent of the total immigrants. However, by 2010 Pakistan's share of immigrants declined by 71 per cent. Pakistan is no longer even in the top 10 sources of immigrants for Canada. At the same time, the Philippines experienced a 153 per cent increase in its share of immigrants making it the biggest source of immigrants to Canada in 2010.

//i.dawn.com/2012/05/image006.jpg

While there is no shortage of applicants in Pakistan, it is hard to establish the precise reason for the declining number of immigrants. It could be that the dismal performance of Pakistan-based immigrants may have prompted the government to reduce the intake from Pakistan. It may also be true that the exponential increase in violence and militancy in Pakistan may have made the task of verifying credentials and identifying future citizens much more difficult.

Over the next 50 years Canada will need millions more immigrants. The current and expected fertility rates in Canada suggest that immigration is the only possible way of ensuring enough workers needed for economic growth and to keep solvent Canada's security net. Pakistan-born immigrants had the chance to excel in Canada and pave the way for future generations of enterprising immigrants. Instead, Pakistan-born immigrants became the face of Canada's urban poverty. Their dismal performance in Canada and the spread of religious fanaticism back home will most likely further reduce immigration from Pakistan.

dawn.com/news/718842/pakistani-canadians-falling-below-the-poverty-line/?commentPage=1&storyPage=2

 

[santosh10]

sir, In the above news, we have 3 main tables to state the condition of migrants in Canada. here we find Indian migrants on 'average' category, as compare to others.....

1st, Table states that Indian migrants stands with East European People in "Low Income group category", bit better than East European migrants but listed above Polish people in the 1st table.

2nd, Table states that Average Wages of Indians is bit better than Italian and other East European people, but again less than Polish migrants

3rd, Table states that migration policy towards the Indian origin is maintained as it is during last 10 years, in between 2001 to 2010.

here, why we find Indian Migrants to be on average performing in Canada, while Indian migrants are the highest income group in USA, in the same North America? do we have any role of religious equation in 'average' performing Indians in Canada? as we find Hindus to be even less than 50% of the total Indians living in Canada.

in fact, Sikh truck drivers/ taxi drivers/ Sikh people working in farms in Canada itself, might not be earning less in Canada as they are very hard working, work for long hours....... Sikh origin people won't be very low earning group there, i think?

//upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/32/Religion_in_Canada.png/800px-Religion_in_Canada.png

Sikh truckers propose changes to turban transit system

BRAMPTON, Ont. -- A properly wound turban is as safe as a motorcycle helmet. :ranger:

IndTruckShow

sikhnet.com/news/sikh-truckers-propose-changes-turban-transit-system-0

MONTREAL - Canadian Sikh truck drivers are preparing to once again fight workplace safety rules requiring hardhats to be worn on the job -- this time in Quebec.

According to the CBC, mangers at the Port of Montreal are enforcing a policy that staff and any other workers entering the port, including truck drivers, must wear hardhats and other safety gear at all times.

sikhnet.com/news/sikh-truckers-propose-changes-turban-transit-system-0

 

[Ray]

A properly wound turban is as safe as a motorcycle helmet

Only a crash test could determine the fact.

Has it been done?

 

[santosh10]

In general, mechanization happens only when the cost of mechanization is significantly less than human labour cost. This is not about Bangladesh in general, so lets keep that out. It is about general labour mobility and migration.

Refer to my example on manual labour versus plastering machine. 10 years later, would you prefer:

a) Hiring 4 Indians at the rate of Rs. 2000/day/labourer for 10 days
b) Hiring 4 immigrants at the rate of Rs. 500/day/labourer for 10 days
c) Renting a plastering machine at the rate of Rs. 10000/day for 3 days (this machine gives a MUCH better finish, much superior quality, than humans can)

Of course option b is the cheapest. But if we actively prevent immigrants, the machine becomes the best option. You will then get better quality, get things done much faster, more efficiently, and save on rentals, interest, etc. Labourers get more and more expensive, and can live a life of dignity, as gradually, labourers are replaced with machines. Those who remain in the field, get paid well. :thumb:

That is my point.

@Ray

thats a good point, a good post :thumb:

hmmmmm, look, cheap and now "more efficient" imported labors, as discussed in the post#158, do have some advantages, but it has many other things attached with it too, like the news as below....

sir, we would always like to see increase in salaries in future? and why not, while India is already overly populated country, has to reduce its population by 50% by 2050, i sincerely believe....

Bangladeshi man sentenced to 30 years for New York Fed bomb plot
Aug 9, 2013

Bangladeshi Quazi Ahsanullah displays a photograph of his son Quazi Mohammad Rezwanul Ahsan Nafis as he weeps in his home in the Jatrabari neighborhood in north Dhaka, Bangladesh, in October 2012.

(Reuters) - A judge sentenced a Bangladeshi man to 30 years in prison on Friday after he admitted that he intended to use a bomb in what U.S. authorities called a plot to blow up the New York Federal Reserve Bank. :ranger:

Quazi Mohammad Rezwanul Ahsan Nafis, 22, who had pleaded guilty to the government's charge of "attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction" and faced life in prison, told the judge he now rejects radical Islam and apologized to the people of New York and the United States. Prosecutors had said Nafis had claimed on social media sites to have contacts with al Qaeda. :ranger:

"I'm ashamed, I'm lost, I tried to do a terrible thing," said Nafis, who was arrested in October 2012 while trying to detonate what he believed to be a 1,000-pound (454-kg) bomb hidden in a van.

Instead, the van carried inert materials planted by an undercover FBI agent as part of a sting operation. Prosecutors said Nafis attempted to use a mobile phone to detonate the bogus device.

Before handing down the sentence, Judge Carol Amon in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn said it was clear Nafis intended to go through with the plot in lower Manhattan.

"He continually dialed the cell phone number that he thought would explode the device," the judge said. Still, she said she was "prepared to accept that the remorse he had expressed is genuine."

Had Nafis been able to accomplish what he had set out to do, prosecutor James Loonam said, it would have been "a Boston Marathon style terrorist attack." In April, home-made bombs killed three people and injured 264 others near the marathon finish line.

Loonam asked the judge to punish Nafis within the federal sentencing guidelines of 30 years to life in prison.

The defense asked for a more lenient sentence of 20 years for Nafis, who wore khaki prison overalls and handcuffs.

He had a strict, isolated upbringing and his upper middle class parents sometimes beat him for failing to focus enough on his studies, once so severely he temporarily went mute when he was 6 years old, said his court-appointed defense lawyer Heidi Cesare. As a university student in Dhaka, Bangladesh, he got his first taste of freedom and became radicalized by other students, she said.

According to a criminal complaint unsealed in October, Nafis entered the United States in 2012 with a student visa, and eventually traveled to the New York City borough of Queens.

It said he scouted targets for a potential attack, including the New York Stock Exchange and U.S. President Barack Obama, settling eventually on the Federal Reserve Bank in Manhattan.

Nafis attempted to recruit others to his plot, and discussed his plans over social media sites such as Facebook, the complaint said. He claimed he was in contact with al Qaeda operatives overseas and actively sought out new al Qaeda connections in the United States, the complaint said.

One of the individuals he brought on board was an undercover agent working for the FBI, who monitored Nafis' activities and helped arm him with the inoperable explosives, federal authorities said.

reuters.com/article/2013/08/09/us-usa-bomb-plot-idUSBRE9780QB20130809

 

[santosh10]

.
just discuss bit more on this topic, the issues UK have with these immigrants. we have been having some news like as below too :ranger:

Anti-Muslim backlash in England, but not here
May 29, 2013

//i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/130528213224-obeidallah-edl-racists-story-top.jpg

A supporter of the far-right English Defence League gestures at an anti-Muslim rally on May 27 after a British soldier was killed.

(CNN) -- Two different terror attacks by two different sets of Islamic extremists in two different democracies. But the difference in people's responses is what's key, and exemplifies why America truly is exceptional. :ranger:

I'm referring to the bombing in Boston, Massachusetts, on April 15 and the attack on a British soldier on a London street on May 22. After the Boston attack, which claimed the lives of three people and injured more than 250 others, a minor anti-Muslim backlash was reported. The most notable: A Bangladeshi man in New York City was allegedly beaten and a Muslim woman in Boston was struck in the shoulder and called a terrorist.

And sure the professional Islamophobes, who make their living spewing hate, came out to sell their rancid goods of division and distrust. However, thankfully, and unsurprisingly, Americans weren't buying it.

But in England, the backlash against British Muslims has been alarming.

Since the terror attack on May 22, there have been 193 anti-Muslim incidents in England, that's 15 times the average number. These hate crimes ranged from vandalizing mosques to pulling off women's headscarves, to threats of violence against Muslims and to minor assaults. :ranger:

One of the most serious incidents happened Sunday night when three firebombs were thrown at the Grimsby Islamic Cultural Center in Lincolnshire, while worshipers were inside in the mosque. Luckily no one was killed.

According to British media reports, this wave of anti-Muslim fever was not spontaneous. It has been an organized campaign of hate led by the right-wing group English Defence League, which held protests on the streets of London and Newcastle this past weekend.

At its London event, EDL's leader Tommy Robinson told supporters: "They've had their Arab spring. This is time for the English spring." Of course, the terrorists who killed the British soldier were of Nigerian heritage, not Arab. But then again, bigots aren't the brightest, whether they're English or American.

Obviously, the anti-Muslim attacks and rallies orchestrated by the EDL don't represent mainstream British society. In fact, an anti-racism rally was held in London to counter the EDL's march.

And comedian and actor Russell Brand wrote a heartfelt column for the UK's popular The Sun tabloid, imploring his fellow Brits to remain tolerant and not blame all Muslims for the sins of two madmen.

Another bright spot: At a smaller EDL protest in York, Muslims invited the protesters into their mosque and found some common ground in a properly British way, with tea and cookies and an impromptu game of soccer.

But why didn't we see an angry anti-Muslim backlash in the United States after the Boston bombings killed and injured so many more people?

A few reasons. Not only did the American-Muslim community quickly denounce the Boston bombing, but people of other faiths publicly stood with American-Muslims, including Jewish and Christian leaders in the Boston area.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all Americans love Muslims. But there's a difference between not feeling too warmly about a minority group and actually advocating discrimination and hatred and committing violence against them.

But the bigger reason we didn't see a backlash like the one in England has to do with who we are as Americans. Our nation's DNA can be found on the words affixed to the seal of the United States of America: "E Pluribus Unum" which means "Out of many, one."

To most Americans, Republicans and Democrats both, these words are more than rhetoric. It's the promise our Founding Fathers offered, to welcome people from all different backgrounds to become one with us as Americans.

America was, and still remains, a melting pot. And since its creation, that melting pot has grown; it has become bigger, more colorful and more vibrant.

Sure, some are troubled by our increasing diversity. We see it in the angry rhetoric from those on the far right toward those who don't look, pray or act like them. And we regrettably see it in the hate crimes perpetrated against people simply because they are different.

We need to look no further than New York City, the "bluest" city in the "bluest state," to see a spike in reports of hate crimes against gays, with 29 so far this year compared with 14 last year. Mark Carson, a gay man, was killed on May 18 while he was walking the streets of Greenwich Village. Carson was murdered simply because of his sexual orientation.

We may never be able to end all hate crimes in a nation of more than 300 million people. But we must remain vigilant in countering the voices of intolerance and hatred.

The reaction to the Boston bombings, in such marked contrast to England's reaction to the killing of the soldier, shows we are on the right path. By staying on this path, we will ensure that the United States remains truly exceptional.

//edition.cnn.com/2013/05/29/opinion/obeidallah-muslim-backlash-us-uk

.
=> something more about the things happening in Britain on the ground level, as below:

youtube.com/watch?v=rcsG-u2GtZE

 

[santosh10]

The Islamic future of Britain

thecommentator.com/system/articles/inner_pictures/000/003/770/commentary_thumb/r33_24715643.jpg?1371109793

The future of Britain?

Britain is in denial. If population trends continue, by the year 2050, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation :ranger:

Britain is in denial. There is no real public debate on a historic event that is transforming the country. Mention of it occasionally surfaces in the media, but the mainstream political class never openly discuss it.

What is that historic event? By the year 2050, in a mere 37 years, Britain will be a majority Muslim nation.

This projection is based on reasonably good data. Between 2004 and 2008, the Muslim population of the UK grew at an annual rate of 6.7 percent, making Muslims 4 percent of the population in 2008. Extrapolating from those figures would mean that the Muslim population in 2020 would be 8 percent, 15 percent in 2030, 28 percent in 2040 and finally, in 2050, the Muslim population of the UK would exceed 50 percent of the total population. :ranger:

Contrast those Muslim birth rates with the non-replacement birth rates of native Europeans, the so called deathbed demography of Europe.:coffee: For a society to remain the same size, the average female has to have 2.1 children (total fertility rate). For some time now, all European countries, including Britain, have been well below that rate. The exception is Muslim Albania. For native Europeans, it seems, the consumer culture has replaced having children as life's main goal.

These startling demographic facts have been available for some time (see 'Muslim Population "Rising 10 Times Faster than Rest of Society"', The Times, 30 January 2009. Also the work of the Oxford demographer David Coleman). But on this historic transformation of the country there is silence from the political establishment.

Not everyone agrees with these demographic figures. Population projection, some say, is not an exact science. Perhaps the Muslim birth rate will drop to European levels.

But this seems to be wishful thinking. For years it was believed that Muslims would enter what is known as "demographic transition", with European Muslim birth rates falling to native European levels. But that demographic transition has not happened. In Britain, for example, the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities continue to have significantly higher birth rates than the national average, even after more than 50 years in the country.

Over the short term (a few generations) demographic forecasting is as scientific as any social science can be. Britain and the rest of Europe are in native population decline and European Muslim birth rates are up. If that trend continues, then the projection of a majority Muslim population in Britain is sound. Even the highly respected economist and historian Niall Ferguson accepts the figures.

Many British people find it hard to believe their country could become majority Muslim. After all, it was never what they wanted so why, in a democracy, should it be happening? But we've had such disbelief before. Back in the 60s and 70s, many people scoffed at the notion that London could ever be majority non-white. But today it is.

The fact is that the deathbed demography of native Britons has come up against increasing Muslim birth rates and the result is a classic Malthusian geometric increase in the Muslim population. As Malthus emphasised, populations increase geometrically, not arithmetically. Given two populations, one declining one increasing, within a few generations the geometric increase of one over the other can be substantial.

Why has the Muslim birth rate not fallen to native levels? Just as there may be consumerist-cultural reasons for the low birth rates of native Britons, there may be strong cultural reasons for higher Muslim birth rates. As the journalist Christopher Caldwell puts it: "Muslim culture is full of messages laying out the practical advantages of procreation. As the hadith saying has it: 'Marry, for I will outnumber peoples by you.'"

Yassir Arafat understood the political power of high birth rates. The Palestinian population increased sevenfold in one generation from 450,000 in 1967 to 3.3 million in 2002. The wombs of Palestinian women, Arafat said, were the "secret weapon" in his cause. The Israeli government is very much aware of Palestinian demographics.

Population projections over the long term can be wrong. But for Britain, over the short term, whatever way you do the numbers, they all point in one direction: Britain will be a majority Muslim state by the year 2050.

The political and social consequences of all this will be significant. Britain's traditional foreign policy, particularly regarding the US and Israel, would very likely change. In fact the US and Israel are already anticipating the consequences of a majority Muslim Western Europe.

Britain's social landscape would also be changed. The Adhan, the Muslim call to prayer, would very likely be heard throughout most of Britain. The traditional iconic sights and sounds of the country would also change from church bell-towers to minarets.

Very likely all of this would happen gradually but there can be little doubt that it will happen, and it would be perfectly democratic.

Given that such a historic change is taking place, the silence of the political class is curious, to say the least. Britain, until the 1950s, could trace its ethnic and cultural ancestry back thousands of years. In 1903, in Cheddar Gorge Somerset, the remains of a pre-historic man were found. Known as Cheddar Man, DNA tests on this almost 9000 years old skeleton showed that he has living descendents today, still in Somerset.

In fact, genetic studies show that the populations of the British Isles (and Western Europe) have been stable for millennia, giving the lie to the oft quoted liberal comment that "Britain has always been a country of immigrants." That's false. Until the mass immigration of the 1950s, Britain was ethnically homogeneous. (See Bryan Sykes's Blood of the Isles.)

The long stretch of Britain's exclusively European identity is now coming to an end, yet the political class refuse publicly to discuss such a culturally transforming event. Why the silence from the politicians? Are they not proud of their achievement?

The answer is that the demographic projections of a majority Muslim Britain show the British political class to have been catastrophically wrong on multiculturalism and immigration, and they are genuinely afraid to admit it. The British political establishment cannot give the full truth about immigration.

The former Conservative MP George Walden, considering the fears of his fellow MPs in discussing particularly Muslim immigration, wrote:

"I'd be so alarmed by the situation I'd do everything possible to suggest it was under control. It's up to politicians to play mood music in a crisis, and up to the people to understand that there's little else governments can do. The last thing they can say is that we face a threat to which we can see no end because it's based on a clash of cultures. On the IRA we told the truth; on the Islamic problem, we lie." (Walden, Time to Emigrate? p.120)

Back in the 60s and 70s, the British political establishment united in condemning Enoch Powell, not just as a racist but as being factually incorrect in his demographic predictions. Since then, the subject of immigration has split British politics between the truth-denying, but morally superior, political mainstream and the truth-telling legacy of the bogeyman Enoch Powell.

For good or bad, the history of the last 40 years has vindicated Powell on many issues and shown the political establishment to have been wrong. Some major figures on the liberal-left now acknowledge this fact.

David Goodhart, the founder of Prospect magazine, in his new book The British Dream, argues convincingly that he and others on the liberal-left got it wrong on immigration.

But they also got it wrong on democracy. The projection of a Muslim majority by the year 2050, coupled with the fact that the vast majority of the British people have consistently opposed large-scale immigration, post-war British politics must represent the greatest ever failure in democracy. If ever the "Iron Law of Oligarchy" were proved right, then it is post-war British politics that has done it.:ranger:

thecommentator.com/article/3770/the_islamic_future_of_britain

 

[santosh10]

just to add bit more, we now have the issues related to false perceptions of 'Indians' in US/West too, as below.... its also similar to how we find false ID members of BD and Pak here :ranger:

youtube.com/watch?v=udgvm64toWI

 

[Mad Indian]

Nothing which is illegal is good for the Nation.

Really ?

By your logic, Homosexuality is illegal in India now and so Homosexuality is not good for the nation now.

If tomorrow, some progressive govt decriminalises homosexuality in India, it will suddenly become good for the nation?

 

[santosh10]

Nothing which is illegal is good for the Nation.

its an 'incompetent' statement, stating the people would always 'surrender' to the decision of government....

no matter what the government 'try' to legalize, the people always have a reason to alter the decision by appealing in court. we always find the laws keep changing as concerning the security reasons too :ranger:

 

[Ray]

Really ?

By your logic, Homosexuality is illegal in India now and so Homosexuality is not good for the nation now.

If tomorrow, some progressive govt decriminalises homosexuality in India, it will suddenly become good for the nation?

Context is the key.

Read the post and the reply and then you will find light dawn on you.

 

[Mad Indian]

Context is the key.

Read the post and the reply and then you will find light dawn on you.

Nice try, but my point still stands. You replied to his post on immigration that illegal automatically means bad for the nation. I just showed how that is nonsense. Who am I kidding, you will not accept that you are wrong will you?

 

[Ray]

Nice try, but my point still stands. You replied to his post on immigration that illegal automatically means bad for the nation. I just showed how that is nonsense. Who am I kidding, you will not accept that you are wrong will you?

Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

 

[Ray]

Quoted both to show who is being ignorant and stupid

Would you like some rest from this forum?

Patience is not simply the ability to wait - it's how we behave while we're waiting.

I have displayed Patience, but idiocy of baiting me is running thin.

It is better to remain on topic.

 

[Singh]

Would you like some rest from this forum?

Patience is not simply the ability to wait - it's how we behave while we're waiting.

I have displayed Patience, but idiocy of baiting me is running thin.

It is better to remain on topic.

Sir,

He is baiting you. And when you take action, he will claim you are abusing your mod powers and then play the martyr card. He might even play the upper caste bigot card.
Oldest trick in the book, and I have seen this dozens of time in the last 6 years.

It is our fault that we have given him too much leeway in the past, and now he is testing our patience and generosity.

 

[Ray]

Sir,

He is baiting you. And when you take action, he will claim you are abusing your mod powers and then play the martyr card. He might even play the upper caste bigot card.
Oldest trick in the book, and I have seen this dozens of time in the last 6 years.

It is our fault that we have given him too much leeway in the past, and now he is testing our patience and generosity.

I realise but then I try to treat all with Christian compassion and love, hoping that they will realise.

Forgive them Father, for they do not understand what they do.

Hopefully, he will not come tearing down on me for being Mother Teresa's protégé.

 

[Peter]

I just came here to read some of our dear santosh10`s competent and incompetent posts.

 

[PredictablyMalicious]

Sir,

He is baiting you. And when you take action, he will claim you are abusing your mod powers and then play the martyr card. He might even play the upper caste bigot card.
Oldest trick in the book, and I have seen this dozens of time in the last 6 years.

It is our fault that we have given him too much leeway in the past, and now he is testing our patience and generosity.

@Mad Indian the ultra right wing dude who shouts at others for being socialist while supporting the ultra left wing policy of affirmative action in the same breath

 

[santosh10]

Unfortunately I did read your post.

The assumption is that the illegal immigrants are actually improving efficiency.

I presented facts to the contrary.

And no Indian companies are far far less mechanized than Chinese companies.

further to your comment about the "Improved Efficiency" of these illegal migrants, we have a news as below too. here, its interesting to see that out of total GBP 2,352 million remittance outflows from Britain, around GBP 1.16bil goes to just two countries, Pakistan and Bangladesh, or to one country, Pakistan before 1972. while Britain itself is the 14th largest receiver of remittances from the world right now and Pakistan and Bangladesh on 7th and 11th place.......

an interesting statistics, as we do know that Pakistani+Bangladeshi is the poorest community living in UK. does this means, poor people do more saving? :ranger:

World Bank data suggest that the UK is a net remittance-receiver

The UK is a receiver as well as a sender of remittances. As shown in Figure 1, the World Bank estimates suggest that since the mid-1990s the UK has been a net-remittance receiver. The main countries from which remittances are sent to the UK include Australia, the United States and Canada (World Bank 2010). Real remittance inflows (inflation adjusted) for the UK have increased by an annual average of 6% since 1989, reaching close to GBP 4,647 million in 2009. However, these inflows represent a small share of the UK GDP (about 0.3% in 2009). The UK occupies the fourteenth place in the world in value of remittances received and the sixth place in Europe.

From 1989 to 2009, remittance outflows from the UK increased by an annual average of about 4% in real terms, reaching close to GBP 2,352 million in 2009.

The UK accounted for around 7% of annual remittances to Bangladesh in 2010 (about GBP 533 million) and about 10% of annual remittances to Pakistan during that year (about GBP 627 million) :ranger:

Bangladesh and Pakistan occupy the seventh and eleventh positions respectively in terms of the global inflow of remittances

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migrant-remittances-and-uk

 

[santosh10]

You're assuming that most of these immigrants are hardworking productive people who look for jobs. Why have you made that assumption? Most Bangladeshi illegals are probably just begging in India and aren't contributing to the economy in any significant way, or even worse taking to a life of crime. The Indians who go to America are intelligent and industrious people. You're not getting that kind of immigration here. Bangladesh is not so much worse off than India that their cream would come to India looking for jobs. That's not how it works. You're just adding to your population which further puts strain on the economy and disadvantages the Indian citizens who you have more of an obligation to, in the first place. Even if they take up jobs, they're replacing Indians who need those jobs. India is not a developed nation like the US where you have expensive domestic labour and people not willing to work the hard jobs. India does not need Bangladeshi immigration to meet its needs. It might be able to handle legal immigration where you pick and choose who gets to immigrate. The precise terms and procedure would have to be fleshed out but sure I can see how legal immigration could benefit India. Right now you're scraping the bottom of the barrel as far as immigrants go and this isn't beneficial in any way.

I haven't even addressed the impact of illegal immigration on the social fabric of India, which is a whole different beast altogether. You're getting culture/religious clashes when those illegals reach a threshold and decide to make residence in cities all over India. They stick together like a cohesive unit, which gives them a good amount of power on the street to challenge the locals as they see fit. This creates a precarious situation on the streets where violence rules the day. Take the example of Assam and the impact that muslim illegals have had there. You're looking at large amounts of havoc here. At the end of the day, illegals just aren't worth it.

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Standing of BRIC's Firms in World

we have an update of listing of firms of BRIC economies as below:

1st; The World's Most Innovative Companies - Forbes

forbes.com/innovative-companies/list/#page:1_sort:0_direction:asc_search:_filter:South%20Asia_filter:All%20industries

here we find 5 Indian firms having a place among the top 100 of world
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2nd; Asia's Fab 50 Companies - Forbes

forbes.com/fab50/#page:5_sort:0_direction:asc_search:

here we find 12 Indian firms having a place in this above list of Asia's top 50
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3rd; World's Largest 2000 Public Companies - Forbes

forbes.com/global2000/list/

here we find 54 Indian firms having a place in the above list. and yes, Pakistan too from South Asia having 2 companies in the above list.....
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=> Big Mouth of Bangladeshi Members, worth for nothing

There is no need to blame or fear Bangladesh. Bangladeshis are basically very nice, innocent people. Blame the Indians. The Hindu leaders in India today are no different from the Hindu kings a thousand years ago - constantly fighting among themselves, allowing other people to grab our land, etc. So blame Hindus for being greedy, so greedy that they're ready to give up our land for votes or other political benefits. Hindus have always been political prostitutes, will even compromise national security for the sake of power or money. Others, like the immigrants, are simply exploiting this tendency. So why blame others?

@Ray
@genius , a nation is made by its people, who altogether make the nation proud by their knowledge/talent/performance. in the above 3 lists of Forbes, a person like me would certainly be surprised to see 2 Pakistani firms also having a place in this top 2000 largest firms of world, true. but, i won't be surprised if i dont see any Bangladeshi firm having a place in any of the above list by the next 10-15 years

Bangladesh, a nation of 200 million people. except having False Indian-Hindu names and enter India, have got some position in government also by the bless of superpower US. here, do you have any credibility within Bangladesh????? something you may say here, as per your name as Genius??

so big mouth of Bangladeshi people, worth for nothing....... saying Indian works in Bangladesh, while we know them Bangladeshis having false Indian IDs, and working there. the Indian IDs, Bangladeshi government 'circulate' among them, after buying Indian IDs, as part of Bangladeshi annual Budget......

you yourself claims to be an Indian Hindu on this forum, working in Bangladesh as a software engineering, as per your claim. while we generally know Bangladesh as a member of LDCs, among the most poor countries of world, hence depends on the "Humanitarian aid" to run the government, similar to other LDC member countries. and their people crossing Indian border, work for the least paid job here in India. we generally talk, "it would take upto 20years+, for Bangladesh to come to the level of Pakistan type countries." :ranger:

//data.worldbank.org/region/LDC

so big mouth of these False Indian ID holders of Bangladesh keep on forums, any firm which may have a place in the above lists by even the next decade?

and yes, Indian firms, no matter who own it, got the above status by the people of India, raised them to this level by their knowledge-performance by the people of India. who sell their products to 400million+ strong middle class of India, and hence making profit within India to get a place in the above list. and my this statement is just concerning those False ID holders in India, "any wealth made within India belongs to the voters of India, and its tax payers, to the people of India based here."
as now even soul of people is transferred by the other nationals, we now have "occupied" bodies of people by other nations too, whoever impressed US in past. but we do hope US/UK to withdraw their support from the rogue nations in future