Astra BVRAAM

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PSU are lazy no 1 and wanted their nose in every projects, in order to get the name, and they force the Indian Armed forces to accept whatever shit they produce, you should read some served officials posts here in this own forum,
PSUs are primary R&D agencies since they have huge funds from government. Private companies have profits as their end goal. So, they should only be meant for production.

Obviously, certain companies like VEM & Kalyani have gained some expertise in certain component but that is too brief. They can't invest in developing more than the specific product which earns them profit.
So either they would need government funds for R&D or technology from PSU as usual.
I'm also wondering if you actually believe that these companies had all the critical components on their own and didn't import/recieve assistance from foreign entities.
 

SajeevJino

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PSUs are primary R&D agencies since they have huge funds from government. Private companies have profits as their end goal. So, they should only be meant for production.

Obviously, certain companies like VEM & Kalyani have gained some expertise in certain component but that is too brief. They can't invest in developing more than the specific product which earns them profit.
So either they would need government funds for R&D or technology from PSU as usual.


PSU gets lot of funds for R&D yet they make Chaff, Wheel, Gear livers only, while sucking the R&D of private players and stick them with DPSU stickers.

VEM is key player in sensor and optics, which no other DPSU achieved the goal so far, most of the critical DPSU products holds VEM's critical components( VEM is just an example )

I'm also wondering if you actually believe that these companies had all the critical components on their own and didn't import/recieve assistance from foreign entities.
sure not all in house made technologies, most of them with the support of west and US,

DPSU observes Russian techs while Private companies does business with West and US
 

vishnugupt

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Kalyani and TATA fight with DPSU and other influenced org to get a test ground to test their artillery. DPSU tried thier best to not offer the testing ground to private players, and I'm telling you its the DPSU not allowing the ATAGS procurement, don't tell me its the OFB who given blue prints to develop the ATAGS
How?

they force the Indian Armed forces to accept whatever shit they produce,
Any example of forcefulness?

its all same shit
really?

Go and Check out Kalyani, BF, TATA and many other private players, DRDO has almost similar like products which is in paper, that they can make it once Armed forces show interest
Why Armed forces are not showing interest?

have you ever had why Kestral was not selected, and why BMP modification was not given to TATA's, any idea why it tooks so bloody long to sign the C295 deal
I don't know. please tell us why?

why Kalyani's Garuda not selected, there is many more,
Why?

literally DPSU won't let the private players to enter the defense sector, if Private sector enters the armed forces then thats the death sentence of DPSU
Even Modi says, Choke them all Dady.

The whole pinaka is not made by private players, TATA and L&T makes only the truck and rocket body, whole other things under OFB and only, and OFB won't give much components to ramp up the production, so they know who's the boss of the production line

all these peoples gives critical technology to DPSU to make products like ATGM, Optics and Many more
Opposite is true

if they comes with their own fully finished project, then thats the end of their life, DPSU pull the trigger and close their workshop forever
Very laughable claim. I wouldnt ask you why.
 
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Aditya Ballal

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PSUs are primary R&D agencies since they have huge funds from government. Private companies have profits as their end goal. So, they should only be meant for production.

Obviously, certain companies like VEM & Kalyani have gained some expertise in certain component but that is too brief. They can't invest in developing more than the specific product which earns them profit.
So either they would need government funds for R&D or technology from PSU as usual.
I'm also wondering if you actually believe that these companies had all the critical components on their own and didn't import/recieve assistance from foreign entities.
True, to gain the technological and metallurgical know how to make modern artillery guns, Kalyani/Bharat Forge had to purchase an Austrian company by the name of Noricum to get the designs they owned and the entire artillery factory of Swiss firm RUAG was purchased and the tooling shipped to India. Even for their Garuda 105mm gun they are collaborating with an American Defense contractor called The Mandus group to use their modern soft recoil system
 

SajeevJino

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True, to gain the technological and metallurgical know how to make modern artillery guns, Kalyani/Bharat Forge had to purchase an Austrian company by the name of Noricum to get the designs they owned and the entire artillery factory of Swiss firm RUAG was purchased and the tooling shipped to India. Even for their Garuda 105mm gun they are collaborating with an American Defense contractor called The Mandus group to use their modern soft recoil system
that's how dedication works, they really want to do make something great here , but OFB Slaps Dhanush in the face of Army, by throwing out all other private players Arty
 

vishnugupt

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PSU gets lot of funds for R&D yet they make Chaff, Wheel, Gear livers only, while sucking the R&D of private players and stick them with DPSU stickers.

VEM is key player in sensor and optics, which no other DPSU achieved the goal so far, most of the critical DPSU products holds VEM's critical components( VEM is just an example )



sure not all in house made technologies, most of them with the support of west and US,

DPSU observes Russian techs while Private companies does business with West and US
Sorry but you are lacking rationality. You are claiming something even private players will shy to claim. GOI is struggling to find a consortium to build AMCA and Submarines.

Private companies are just entering into the defense industry which is limited to manufacturing only, It is a long road to go where the private players will start design and develop big-ticket products from scratch.
 

Aditya Ballal

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that's how dedication works, they really want to do make something great here , but OFB Slaps Dhanush in the face of Army, by throwing out all other private players Arty
Despite it being off topic, you’ll need to consider that ATAGS and Dhanesh aren’t in the same category for 155mm arty guns so they can’t really be compared for OFB to scuttle, the only real competition for it right now is the Elbit Athos and Bharat 52. Dhanush was meant to be a stopgap until ATAGS delivery’s start, unfortunately OFBs usual tactics, covid and other issues have delayed it. Indian army is also to blame for the delay in ATAGS testing delays and last minute changes in specifications further aggravating the situation.
This post is definitely OT, mods may delete if they feel so.
 
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SajeevJino

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Sorry but you are lacking rationality. You are claiming something even private players will shy to claim. GOI is struggling to find a consortium to build AMCA and Submarines.
HAL was trying their best to throw TATA away from C295 deal, HAL tried their best to not allowing Rafale manufacturing in India in private firms, and they won too, and you're saying they are looking into

dude TATA making US Helicopters and Parts of Boeing plane, they even making C295 in a year or two

I'm pretty sure HAL won't let anyone to even see the AMCA progress

Submarines are already done in L&T, don't act like DPSU is the master others are niche

Private companies are just entering into the defense industry which is limited to manufacturing only, It is a long road to go where the private players will start design and develop big-ticket products from scratch.
You think private companies are like black smith in India, go visit some def expo
 

SajeevJino

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Despite it being off topic, you’ll need to consider that ATAGS and Dhanesh aren’t in the same category for 155mm arty guns so they can’t really be compared for OFB to scuttle, the only real competition for it right now is the Elbit Athos and Bharat 52. Dhanush was meant to be a stopgap until ATAGS delivery’s start, unfortunately OFBs usual tactics, covid and other issues have delayed it. Indian army is also to blame for the delay in ATAGS testing delays and last minute changes in specifications further aggravating the situation.
This post is definitely OT, mods may delete if they feel so.
Dhanush was meant to stop the ATAGS, not just a stop gap, If private players start producing and delivering much modern Arty to Indian Armed forces, OFB Can go home and make restaurants

It's not the Army for the testing delays, It's the OFB who dIdn't let the TATA and BF to use various testing grounds in India
 

vishnugupt

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HAL was trying their best to throw TATA away from C295 deal, HAL tried their best to not allowing Rafale manufacturing in India in private firms, and they won too, and you're saying they are looking into

dude TATA making US Helicopters and Parts of Boeing plane, they even making C295 in a year or two

I'm pretty sure HAL won't let anyone to even see the AMCA progress

Submarines are already done in L&T, don't act like DPSU is the master others are niche


You think private companies are like black smith in India, go visit some def expo
Thank you, for showing your knowledge about the Indian defense. MOD please delete my all three posts.
 

Indx TechStyle

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that's how dedication works, they really want to do make something great here , but OFB Slaps Dhanush in the face of Army, by throwing out all other private players Arty
OFB was a different case. Nearly every institution we inherited from British empire always had a different level of incompetency.

It doesn't mean PSUs like MIDHANI or ISRO haven't done anything. Once again, even Kalyani will find a multi-decade long time insufficient to gain expertise in path breaking tech to be a path breaking OEM.
PSU gets lot of funds for R&D yet they make Chaff, Wheel, Gear livers only
PSUs have developed aerospace, missile and
NBC systems which private players won't even venture in their dreams.
A private company can never bear the losses of R&D which a government can. And even the selected ones like Lockheed or Northrop which are among most advanced, don't work unelss provided R&D funds and inputs by US government.
So, stop throwing angry emotional rants. Private sector can't survive an year without government aid. Technological advancement will be extremely slow or get stagnated.

In the bigger picture, PSUs are like big and fat managers of factory who are dealing with plans, goals and brain work but demand relaxation and lavish. Private players are like workers of same factory who only produce more for money. They don't like any brain work. And will never undertake any kind of R&D or even production trials on any product they think doesn't have a clear future. Private sector isn't magical thing, it appears after government and collapses before government.
 

Super Flanker

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R-37 carry 60kg warhead ---- all it need to do is get close to its target & boom! fragmentation from warhead will destroy any Maneuvering plane to oblivion.
R-37 will be deadly for AWACs type Aircrafts from Ranges like 250-300 kms.That's the Maximum range of the R-37 Missile I believe. It has the Maximum range of 250-300 kms for AWACS type slow Manouverable targets.
For Fighter type ,Highly Manouverable Targets, I believe the Effective Range will be 100-150 kms(not exactly sure though) but it's a very good and deadly Missile!
please note-(I may be wrong about something's like the range of the Missile, so if I am, feel Free to correct me)
000-R-37-Arrow-2S.jpg
 

Lonewolf

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R-37 will be deadly for AWACs type Aircrafts from Ranges like 250-300 kms.That's the Maximum range of the R-37 Missile I believe. It has the Maximum range of 250-300 kms for AWACS type slow Manouverable targets.
For Fighter type ,Highly Manouverable Targets, I believe the Effective Range will be 100-150 kms(not exactly sure though) but it's a very good and deadly Missile!
please note-(I may be wrong about something's like the range of the Missile, so if I am, feel Free to correct me)
View attachment 125679
Not possible to have high kill probability against fighters and all , not that maneuverable missile , design is specifically for awacs kills , we aren't going for bulky r 37 missile category in indigenous plan yet .
 

Super Flanker

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Not possible to have high kill probability against fighters and all , not that maneuverable missile , design is specifically for awacs kills , we aren't going for bulky r 37 missile category in indigenous plan yet .
Let's See. I will remember your post and see what the Future will hold. Yes you are correct that the R-37 is a dedicated AWACS Killer Missile but it can also be used against Fighters at close ranges if I am not wrong but yes you are right, it will be a strictly AWACs killer Missile. Well with regards to Indigenous Missile which will be similar to R-37, I believe That Rudram 3 is the one which will be like an Indigenous R-37 Missile
 

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